Should Robbie Keane retire from ROI squad?

Dempsey

noodler wrote: »

I can't see Doyle getting an EPL move after the season him and Wolves just had.

I haven't even heard of Championship interest yet.

Stokes will probably play 6 Cl games at best next season.

Are we in a position to be ignoring players with experience in European Competitions?

noodler

Lennonist wrote: »

Doyle will get a move to an EPL or top Championship side, he has also been linked with Celtic.

As for Stokes 6 games in the CL is huge experience at that level if he was picked.

I can't see Doyle getting an EPL move - I'd put money against it.

6 games in the CL is huge...but he will also be playing 40+ games against teams of Championship quality.

Dempsey wrote: »

Are we in a position to be ignoring players with experience in European Competitions?

Of course not.

Don't use hyperbole - I am just saying that playing for Celtic gets you the European adventure without having to go through the much tougher test of finishing in the top 4 in England.

Dempsey

noodler wrote: »

I can't see Doyle getting an EPL move - I'd put money against it.

6 games in the CL is huge...but he will also be playing 40+ games against teams of Championship quality.



Of course not.

Don't use hyperbole - I am just saying that playing for Celtic gets you the European adventure without having to go through the much tougher test of finishing in the top 4 in England.

Ireland dont have anyone thats at a club that will be challenging the top 4 so thats a moot point.

Lennonist

noodler wrote: »

Don't use hyperbole - I am just saying that playing for Celtic gets you the European adventure without having to go through the much tougher test of finishing in the top 4 in England.

We don't have ANY players playing for top 4 EPL sides, not that that can stop us being capable of qualifying for big tournaments if we make the most of the players we have. The European adventure with Celtic would prepare a player for the international game just as well as playing for a makeweight or struggling EPL side or a Championship team I would say.

CSF

Can't have the Champions League argument. Those 6 games aren't enough to make up for playing in a pub league from August to May. Keane is definitely still better than Doyle and Stokes.

kippy

Should he retire from the irish setup. Yes. Should the manager automatically pick him because he is 'available' - no. And that is the more pertinent issue tbh.

Kiwi_knock

I doubt Doyle will be leaving Wolves, first of all he would be expensive enough but also he has been pretty poor for the past two years. There has been no interest in him from any club in the PL or Championship. I think Doyle's days in the Irish squad are over.

noodler

Dempsey wrote: »

Ireland dont have anyone thats at a club that will be challenging the top 4 so thats a moot point.

Lennonist wrote: »

We don't have ANY players playing for top 4 EPL sides, not that that can stop us being capable of qualifying for big tournaments if we make the most of the players we have. The European adventure with Celtic would prepare a player for the international game just as well as playing for a makeweight or struggling EPL side or a Championship team I would say.

I think you both somewhat missed the point.

Top 4 sides are better than Celtic - yes but also 5th in the league, 6th in the league, pretty much all the way down to mid-table for me.

And EPL players spend their whole seasons playing against these better teams.

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

Can't have the Champions League argument. Those 6 games aren't enough to make up for playing in a pub league from August to May. Keane is definitely still better than Doyle and Stokes.

Keane plays in a worse league than the SPL and whilst other players are out in Malahide training, Keane is still in transit or 'acclimatizing' from his long haul flight.

Keane's fitness levels arent good enough to be starting anymore. Keane is a great finisher but Stokes is miles ahead of Doyle, Long, Walters & Sammon when it comes to goalscoring.

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

Keane plays in a worse league than the SPL and whilst other players are out in Malahide training, Keane is still in transit or 'acclimatizing' from his long haul flight.

Keane's fitness levels arent good enough to be starting anymore. Keane is a great finisher but Stokes is miles ahead of Doyle, Long, Walters & Sammon when it comes to goalscoring.

I agree that Keane is in a weaker league, but my point was that the argument of Keane playing in a weak league doesn't hold too much weight when the other lads play in weak leagues too where the gap in quality isn't significant.

I wouldn't say that Stokes is a better goalscorer than Long. He has proved very little at a high level whereas Long has scored ok enough at the highest domestic level that we ever have players playing in.

Lennonist

CSF wrote: »

Can't have the Champions League argument. Those 6 games aren't enough to make up for playing in a pub league from August to May.

Yes they are. In fact playing CL or Europa League football arguably prepares a player better for the international game than playing for a struggling EPL side that never plays in Europe.

CSF wrote: »

Keane is definitely still better than Doyle and Stokes.

Not anymore he's not.

Backstreet Moyes

Lennonist wrote: »

Yes they are. In fact playing CL or Europa League football arguably prepares a player better for the international game than playing for a struggling EPL side that never plays in Europe.



Not anymore he's not.

Stokes didn't play a minute of Champions league football this season so i don't understand your point. If sitting on the bench in Europe prepares Stokes more fair play. Also Stokes scored 7 goals this season in the Scottish league in 23 appearances. Sitting on the bench half the season and making appearances against mediocre opposition won't do much for you.

Also Doyle found himself sitting on the bench for a team relegated from the Championship. The Doyle of 2 years ago i would have said play him but he is a shadow of that player. Scoring 9 goals in the Championship is hardly great form.

Keane showed in his loan spell at Villa he is still better than all our strikers. Since then Long has improved and i think he should be first choice. But to imagine some people think Keane shouldn't be in the squad is puzzling.

noodler

Nuts102 wrote: »

Stokes didn't play a minute of Champions league football this season so i don't understand your point. If sitting on the bench in Europe prepares Stokes more fair play. Also Stokes scored 7 goals this season in the Scottish league in 23 appearances. Sitting on the bench half the season and making appearances against mediocre opposition won't do much for you.

Wow, I didn't know he hadn't played/scored so much.

Dempsey

Nuts102 wrote: »

Stokes didn't play a minute of Champions league football this season so i don't understand your point. If sitting on the bench in Europe prepares Stokes more fair play. Also Stokes scored 7 goals this season in the Scottish league in 23 appearances. Sitting on the bench half the season and making appearances against mediocre opposition won't do much for you.

Stokes missed alot of this season through injury, he wasnt available for the Champions League games.

Lennonist

Nuts102 wrote: »

Stokes didn't play a minute of Champions league football this season so i don't understand your point. If sitting on the bench in Europe prepares Stokes more fair play. Also Stokes scored 7 goals this season in the Scottish league in 23 appearances. Sitting on the bench half the season and making appearances against mediocre opposition won't do much for you.

Also Doyle found himself sitting on the bench for a team relegated from the Championship. The Doyle of 2 years ago i would have said play him but he is a shadow of that player. Scoring 9 goals in the Championship is hardly great form.

Keane showed in his loan spell at Villa he is still better than all our strikers. Since then Long has improved and i think he should be first choice. But to imagine some people think Keane shouldn't be in the squad is puzzling.

Stokes might not get picked for the CL next season either, if he doesn't he probably won't get picked for the Ireland squad and like others he won't be picked til Trap is gone no matter what he's form is like anyway. Long should be Ireland's first choice striker, I never said anything different. I also never said Keane shouldn't be in the squad, what I said was that he should no longer be a first choice striker. Doyle's most recent form has improved, he could still play a role if picked in the squad. Try reading what posters are actually saying before jumping in with comments.

CSF

Lennonist wrote: »

Yes they are. In fact playing CL or Europa League football arguably prepares a player better for the international game than playing for a struggling EPL side that never plays in Europe.

Can't agree with that. Fulham/Stoke/Norwich will play more games in a season against teams involved in European group stages than Celtic.

farna_boy

Not sure that he should retire, but I see no reason for him to feature in friendlies. We all know he is capable of scoring and everyone knows what to expect when he plays.

It would be far better for the Irish team if alternative strikers, particularly younger players were given a chance. Robbie will retire some time over the next few years and it would be better if they started playing now to give them time to ease into it and give them some experience under no pressure instead of throwing them in the deep end if Robbie and others get injured in the meantime.

In fact, it would probably be better if this rule was applied to all senior players to give younger players a chance instead of putting out a full squad for friendly games that mean absolutely nothing.

gnfnrhead

farna_boy wrote: »

In fact, it would probably be better if this rule was applied to all senior players to give younger players a chance instead of putting out a full squad for friendly games that mean absolutely nothing.

Trap usually only does that when his hand is forced. If he can play his first choice 11, he normally will, regardless of the opposition. Cant see him changing his ways too much now.

Lennonist

CSF wrote: »

Can't agree with that. Fulham/Stoke/Norwich will play more games in a season against teams involved in European group stages than Celtic.

I'm arguing that the CL or EL football experience that players get playing with clubs that play in those competitions, mirrors more closely the international game than playing with clubs involved in relegation dogfights in the EPL or the hustle and bustle of the Championship. You can agree or disagree all you like, I'm saying you're wrong.

The_Kew_Tour

Stokes is not miles ahead of Walters.

Stokes has the potential, but big difference between playing Hibs and a team of England or even Germany quality.

Sin City

Keane won't a shouldn't retire. Its up to trap to rand hunt etc
retire him like killer
If keane keeps on getting picked he won't go anywhere. He said once he stops getting picked then he will retire to give someone else a chance

Lennonist

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Stokes is not miles ahead of Walters.

Stokes has the potential, but big difference between playing Hibs and a team of England or even Germany quality.

I wouldn't disagree with that either.

My point is you don't have to be playing in the EPL in order to be useful on the international stage. Samaras at Celtic is a case in point. He doesn't even play well at domestic level in the SPL, but is very useful in Europe and is also a valuable player for Greece at international level.

If Stokes can get CL experience at Celtic next season he could then prove useful to Ireland at international level. He doesn't have to be playing in the EPL to be useful for Ireland so long as he gets to play in the CL Group Stages and is competent at that level. That's the point I'm making in relation to Stokes.

Backstreet Moyes

Lennonist wrote: »

I'm arguing that the CL or EL football experience that players get playing with clubs that play in those competitions, mirrors more closely the international game than playing with clubs involved in relegation dogfights in the EPL or the hustle and bustle of the Championship. You can agree or disagree all you like, I'm saying you're wrong.

Over the course of the Premier League you will be playing tougher matches than in the Champions league. Walters is a regular and plays against United, City, Chelsea, Spurs who are all Champions League standard.

Stokes will be a rotated player playing against mediocre opponents on a weekly basis and play a game or two in Europe. That will in no way prepare you for Ireland than having a tough game every week in a stronger league.

Lennonist

Nuts102 wrote: »

Over the course of the Premier League you will be playing tougher matches than in the Champions league. Walters is a regular and plays against United, City, Chelsea, Spurs who are all Champions League standard.

Stokes will be a rotated player playing against mediocre opponents on a weekly basis and play a game or two in Europe. That will in no way prepare you for Ireland than having a tough game every week in a stronger league.

You don't have to be playing in the EPL week in week out to be a useful contributor at international level. See my point re-Samaras above. Playing in the CL is excellent experience for any player hoping to play at international level. You don't have to playing in the EPL - end of.

Backstreet Moyes

Lennonist wrote: »

You don't have to be playing in the EPL week in week out to be a useful contributor at international level. See my point re-Samaras above. Playing in the CL is excellent experience for any player hoping to play at international level. You don't have to playing in the EPL - end of.

I never said you have to be playing in the Premier League. I said it's more beneficial playing a league where your playing Champions League clubs more often than Celtic would be and playing better opponents on a weekly basis. Stokes had potential but has thrown it away really. Playing rotation in a very poor league and a few minutes in Europe is in no way better for a player than regular football in a tough league.

Lennonist

Nuts102 wrote: »

I never said you have to be playing in the Premier League. I said it's more beneficial playing a league where your playing Champions League clubs more often than Celtic would be and playing better opponents on a weekly basis. Stokes had potential but has thrown it away really. Playing rotation in a very poor league and a few minutes in Europe is in no way better for a player than regular football in a tough league.

I disagree, and site Samaras as a prime example of a player that can operate very successfully at CL and International level despite plying his trade in the SPL at domestic level. Stokes can do that as well, and he's still only 24 so still has time to fulfill his potential.

Backstreet Moyes

Lennonist wrote: »

I disagree, and site Samaras as a prime example of a player that can operate very successfully at CL and International level despite plying his trade in the SPL at domestic level. Stokes can do that as well, and he's still only 24 so still has time to fulfill his potential.

You are making assumptions about Stokes. Just because Samaras can do it doesn't mean Stokes can do it. Stokes is not even a regular in such a poor league. Being rotated and when playing your against teams your so much better than is no good for his development. If he goes to a Championship club and starts banging them in it will suit him better.

Also i don't see how you think a few minutes in Europe and a few games in a poor league prepares you better than playing regularly in a much better league where the intensity is a lot higher and your playing against better players.

Lennonist

Nuts102 wrote: »

You are making assumptions about Stokes. Just because Samaras can do it doesn't mean Stokes can do it. Stokes is not even a regular in such a poor league. Being rotated and when playing your against teams your so much better than is no good for his development. If he goes to a Championship club and starts banging them in it will suit him better.

Stokes is getting a new contract so it's up to him to step up and make himself a regular starter for Celtic in the CL Group Stages - once they get there. If he can do that, it would make him a potentially better player for Ireland than if he was playing in the Championship - that's a definite.

Dempsey

Nuts102 wrote: »

You are making assumptions about Stokes. Just because Samaras can do it doesn't mean Stokes can do it. Stokes is not even a regular in such a poor league. Being rotated and when playing your against teams your so much better than is no good for his development. If he goes to a Championship club and starts banging them in it will suit him better.

Also i don't see how you think a few minutes in Europe and a few games in a poor league prepares you better than playing regularly in a much better league where the intensity is a lot higher and your playing against better players.

You're now making assumptions about Stokes. When fit, he usually starts. He plays with the expectation that if he doesnt play well he will find himself on the bench. So he's expected to play well and score week in week out. No pressure there I suppose? Jon Walters can score a hattrick of OG's and still start the following week. Being under the threat of rotation is good for a player.

Anyways, the argument that he cant be useful to Ireland without playing in the English leagues is stupid. He can, certainly should be in the squad before a few others. This notion that the EPL is better than the UCL is one of the daftest things I heard on this forum in a long time aswell. Fanboyism at its finest.

Lennonist

Dempsey wrote: »

You're now making assumptions about Stokes. When fit, he usually starts. He plays with the expectation that if he doesnt play well he will find himself on the bench. So he's expected to play well and score week in week out. No pressure there I suppose? Jon Walters can score a hattrick of OG's and still start the following week. Being under the threat of rotation is good for a player.

Anyways, the argument that he cant be useful to Ireland without playing in the English leagues is stupid. He can, certainly should be in the squad before a few others. This notion that the EPL is better than the UCL is one of the daftest things I heard on this forum in a long time aswell. Fanboyism at its finest.

There appears to be a proliferation of EPL fanboys on these threads at times, and their views are often blinkered by their obsession with the EPL being the be all and end all.

The_Kew_Tour

Lennonist wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with that either.

My point is you don't have to be playing in the EPL in order to be useful on the international stage. Samaras at Celtic is a case in point. He doesn't even play well at domestic level in the SPL, but is very useful in Europe and is also a valuable player for Greece at international level.

If Stokes can get CL experience at Celtic next season he could then prove useful to Ireland at international level. He doesn't have to be playing in the EPL to be useful for Ireland so long as he gets to play in the CL Group Stages and is competent at that level. That's the point I'm making in relation to Stokes.

I think Stokes deserves a chance but again about 5-6 others players deserve game time too,

I would only be too happy to see Stokes become class player for Ireland.

But he needs to be playing week in week out and putting in good performances.

CSF

****in love Robbie. Delighted for him. National hero.

CSF

Retire? Me bollix.

robz150

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

After the FAI and Trappatoni held talks with LA Galaxy they have now agreed to release Robbie Keane for the upcoming friendlies.

If Trappatoni cannot see or will not see that Keane is no longer deserving of a place in the squad, should Robbie be honest enough to stand aside and give the likes of Doyle/Long/Walters a chance?

No

Mr.Nice Guy

Trap, should Robbie Keane retire from the squad?

LuckyLloyd

Great thread

CSF

Methinks this thread will now be much quieter

Charlie19

I don't like seeing Robbie doing his little tumble but I wouldn't of minded one today.

Quazzie

Wow two goals against a poor Georgia side. He must be brilliant :rolleyes:

Paul Tergat

Robbie takes his chances. No other Irish player does it like him

Rhys Essien

OP,what are your latest thoughts??

aindriu80

I can't believe there is this thread

56 goals wow !! I may have been frustrated with Robbie on occasion but he is our best player.

LuckyLloyd

Quazzie wrote: »

Wow two goals against a poor Georgia side. He must be brilliant :rolleyes:

Oh he is brilliant, and has been for a long time.

G.K.

In the games where you need a workmanlike performance he shouldn't be starting (I'd go Long and Walters) but he should, if Ireland are looking to be competitive, be brought on if goals are needed, early in the second half (Especially considering that Long and Walters should hopefully have tired the opposition defense to some extent).

In other games, throw him on for the start if you want.

What Ireland must do is sort out their forwards other than him though. Won't be able to rely on him forever.

The_Kew_Tour

G.K. wrote: »

In the games where you need a workmanlike performance he shouldn't be starting (I'd go Long and Walters) but he should, if Ireland are looking to be competitive, be brought on if goals are needed, early in the second half (Especially considering that Long and Walters should hopefully have tired the opposition defense to some extent).

In other games, throw him on for the start if you want.

What Ireland must do is sort out their forwards other than him though. Won't be able to rely on him forever.

Agree with this.

On Robbie. The guy is Irish legend.

If the guy had a posher accent he may get more credit. The guy gets slaughtered for no reason.

The man has never refused playing for his country. A rare thing.

KingdomYid

aindriu80 wrote: »

I can't believe there is this thread

56 goals wow !! I may have been frustrated with Robbie on occasion but he is our best player.

Totally agree, should not be even up for discussion in my mind. Fair enough we should discuss if he should start or not but Robbie is still very valuable to this squad.

KingdomYid

Quazzie wrote: »

Wow two goals against a poor Georgia side. He must be brilliant :rolleyes:

Seriously!! why would you decide to belittle the fact he scored two goals, he is an Irish legend for Christ sake!

Quazzie

KingdomYid wrote: »

Seriously!! why would you decide to belittle the fact he scored two goals, he is an Irish legend for Christ sake!

Because he's past it and people are using two goals against a poor side to make out like he is brilliant.

Rhys Essien

@G.K

For starters,Anthony Stokes needs to be brought back.Afterall he is still only 24.Paddy Madden who is 23,will now have to step up to the plate now that he will be playing in the Championship next season.

CSF

Quazzie wrote: »

Because he's past it and people are using two goals against a poor side to make out like he is brilliant.

And the other 54.