Should Robbie Keane retire from ROI squad?

Neil3030

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The next time Halley's comet comes round, Robbie Keane will in all likelihood still be our record goalscorer.

The next time Halley's comet comes around, Robbie will be out pointing exactly where he wants it to be played.

CSF

The man is a god.

Super-Rush

Robbie Keane will tell Halley's comet when to come around.

SirDelboy18

Fairplay to him, he did well tonight. I don't think he should retire as I have already said but he definitely shouldn't be starting bigger games over the likes of Shane Long.

There have been far, far more anonymous performances over the past year than quality ones so I don't think people should be getting carried away with themselves. Has been completely ineffective too many times over the past year, but tonight showed he can still get goals, and can still be effective against smaller opposition or off the bench.

applehunter

David Connolly would be proud of those 3.

Really on his game tonight and deserved MOTM.

We will need him to be just as sharp in September.

CSF

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Fairplay to him, he did well tonight. I don't think he should retire as I have already said but he definitely shouldn't be starting bigger games over the likes of Shane Long.

When you say the likes of Shane Long, who else is there? For me the hierarchy goes:
Long/Keane

Walters



















Everybody else

SirDelboy18

CSF wrote: »

When you say the likes of Shane Long, who else is there? For me the hierarchy goes:
Long/Keane

Walters

Everybody else

Indeed, Long and Walters are the alternatives and ones who offer far more to our game in the majority of fixtures IMO.

We should not be playing a 4-4-2 vs quality opposition, but if we were to continue to do so Walters and Long are much more suited to playing vs better opposition.

There have been too many anonymous performances from Robbie vs quality opposition since Euros - Spain, Italy, Croatia, Germany, Sweden. In many of these games it was as if we were playing with 10 men such was his lack of impact.

As I have said, he did well tonight and fairplay, but I don't think his ability to perform against extremely poor sides should be in question and it isn't by me anyway.

Hopefully Traps comments about Hoolahan tonight (where he admitted he was guilty of ignoring him and intimated he wouldn't in future) mean that we can approach games against better sides with a formation better suited to winning those games and sadly Robbie does not feature in any Irish side that can challenge good teams.

That being said there is great value in being able to call on Robbies experience from the bench, in the dressing room and against smaller sides where he can still have a big impact the game.

Skylinehead

aramush wrote: »

Bulls***e.

Lets put this into context, it was the worst team in Europe out there tonight, Robbie is well past his best as he proved against real opposition such as Germany, Sweden and Austria.

The Faroe Islands are far from the worst team in Europe. I'd have them over San Marino or Andorra any day (or, now that Gibraltar is a UEFA member, them).

andyman

Skylinehead wrote: »

The Faroe Islands are far from the worst team in Europe. I'd have them over San Marino or Andorra any day (or, now that Gibraltar is a UEFA member, them).

Could you be clutching on any more straws? It was clearly an exaggeration to prove a point.

Great to see the man in goalscoring form again, but it's been against the Faroe Islands and Georgia. We really shouldn't get too ahead of ourselves. I reckon he'd make a much bigger impact fresh off the bench agaisnt the bigger teams. He shouldn't be starting those games as he's done little to nothing against them lately.

simongurnick

applehunter wrote: »

David Connolly would be proud of those 3.

Really on his game tonight and deserved MOTM.

We will need him to be just as sharp in September.

The Angry Ant

listermint

andyman wrote: »

Could you be clutching on any more straws? It was clearly an exaggeration to prove a point.

Great to see the man in goalscoring form again, but it's been against the Faroe Islands and Georgia. We really shouldn't get too ahead of ourselves. I reckon he'd make a much bigger impact fresh off the bench agaisnt the bigger teams. He shouldn't be starting those games as he's done little to nothing against them lately.

who should then? You know long couldn't play so what's your point. Of course he should have started.

Lumbo

aramush wrote: »

Bulls***e.

Lets put this into context, it was the worst team in Europe out there tonight, Robbie is well past his best as he proved against real opposition such as Germany, Sweden and Austria.

From the BBC

Robbie Keane is now the fifth-highest international goalscorer in European history with 59 goals.
Only German duo Miroslav Klose (pictured, 67) and Gerd Muller (68) and Hungarian pair Sandor Kocsis (75) and Ferenc Puskas (84) have scored more.

The_Kew_Tour

Lumbo wrote: »

From the BBC

Still ****;)

Dots1982

All three of Robbie's goals were down to an excellent footballing brain last night. Against Germany, Sweden and Austria you need more than that (speed, agility, technique, workrate) Lets see how he gets on vs Spain.

djPSB

Would like to see Robbie playing up top with Wes playing off him. Robbie is a fox in the box at this stage, a very good one. I don't think he has the legs to be dropping off into midfield.

Also need to get McLean or someone with pace on the wing instead of Cox.

CSF

aramush wrote: »

Bulls***e.

Lets put this into context, it was the worst team in Europe out there tonight, Robbie is well past his best as he proved against real opposition such as Germany, Sweden and Austria.

You should really just give up.

Backstreet Moyes

aramush wrote: »

Bulls***e.

Lets put this into context, it was the worst team in Europe out there tonight, Robbie is well past his best as he proved against real opposition such as Germany, Sweden and Austria.

What a load of crap some people just can't admit their wrong. 5 goals in two games. Top scorer in qualifying last year near was he far of overall top scorer in the whole thing. Their we go joint 3rd on 7 goals. Look at the players up their besides Forsell their all playing with teams who hammer everyone.

http://www.11v11.com/competitions/european-championship/2012/goal-scorers/qualifying/

If i had to choose 1 striker it would be long. Whether some people like it or not Keane is our best goalscorer. Long has the best all round game but not as lethal as Keane. Keane is still very important for Ireland. I don't understand where the criticism comes from. I sat in a pub last night and a fella all night calling Keane useless. Even after the hat trick he said he had a bad game and should be gone. He is up front to score goals and boy is he a long way ahead of any other striker we have for that.

aramush

Robbie scored against Geogria and the Faroe Islands (down a couple of regulars). Can anyone tell me how Robbie played against Austria, Sweden or even Germany last October? He was anonymous and didn't score against the better opposition, in fact didn't contribute much to the play at all.

Then again, if he spent less time flapping his hands around moaning at referees we might be better off. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realise he is well past it and this has been proved time and time again against the better teams in this group. He can score all he wants in friendlies and against the minnows but his record amount of goals will be of little use to us against the better teams in this group and those are the games we have to win to get us to Brazil.

Don't get me wrong, Robbie has been a tremendous servant to Irish football, a true legend but he is well past his best and to my mind, shouldn't be in the team.

Backstreet Moyes

aramush wrote: »

Robbie scored against Geogria and the Faroe Islands (down a couple of regulars). Can anyone tell me how Robbie played against Austria, Sweden or even Germany last October? He was anonymous and didn't score against the better opposition, in fact didn't contribute much to the play at all.

Then again, if he spent less time flapping his hands around moaning at referees we might be better off. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realise he is well past it and this has been proved time and time again against the better teams in this group. He can score all he wants in friendlies and against the minnows but his record amount of goals will be of little use to us against the better teams in this group and those are the games we have to win to get us to Brazil.

Don't get me wrong, Robbie has been a tremendous servant to Irish football, a true legend but he is well past his best and to my mind, shouldn't be in the team.

No matter which striker we have up front is going to struggle with no service. In those games we were dominated and just played long ball football. If Robbie get's service he scores. I don't care who it's against you still have to score against weaker or teams of similar ability. Nobody will do that better than Keane. Do you say the likes of RVP's goals don't matter because he is most of the time playing against weaker teams. Using scoring goals against weaker teams as some reason to not be in the team makes no sense. Once Robbie is scoring goals in competitive games at a high rate for Ireland i will be happy to see him keep playing. Close the thread and when the gals dry up we can discuss if he should play or not.

aramush

Nuts102 wrote: »

No matter which striker we have up front is going to struggle with no service. In those games we were dominated and just played long ball football. If Robbie get's service he scores. I don't care who it's against you still have to score against weaker or teams of similar ability. Nobody will do that better than Keane. Do you say the likes of RVP's goals don't matter because he is most of the time playing against weaker teams. Using scoring goals against weaker teams as some reason to not be in the team makes no sense. Once Robbie is scoring goals in competitive games at a high rate for Ireland i will be happy to see him keep playing. Close the thread and when the gals dry up we can discuss if he should play or not.

Fair enough but on reflection I'd probably go for four in midfield with Hoolahan in behind the front man against Sweden. In an ideal world I would like it to be Long up there.

aramush

aramush wrote: »

Robbie scored against Geogria and the Faroe Islands (down a couple of regulars). Can anyone tell me how Robbie played against Austria, Sweden or even Germany last October? He was anonymous and didn't score against the better opposition, in fact didn't contribute much to the play at all.

Then again, if he spent less time flapping his hands around moaning at referees we might be better off. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realise he is well past it and this has been proved time and time again against the better teams in this group. He can score all he wants in friendlies and against the minnows but his record amount of goals will be of little use to us against the better teams in this group and those are the games we have to win to get us to Brazil.

Don't get me wrong, Robbie has been a tremendous servant to Irish football, a true legend but he is well past his best and to my mind, shouldn't be in the team.

He's far from past it.

jimjamcos

People on here begrudging Keane game time and calling for him to be dropped will only realise the error of their ways when he's gone. They'll be in for one hell of a shock too as we suffer for years.

Shane Long (our next best and only real striking prospect once Robbie finishes) is a 1 in 4 striker.

Robbie Keane is a 1 in 2 striker.

'Nuff said.

aramush

sugarman wrote: »

Long who missed 4 out 4 sitters last Sunday? Against the 'weaker' teams:rolleyes:

Long is a better player than Robbie Keane now.

jimjamcos

aramush wrote: »

Long is a better player than Robbie Keane now.

Long is fitter, faster and stronger than Keane.

Keane is cleverer, more aware of space and, importantly, a much better finisher.

I know which I prefer. You only get 2/3 good chances max in international football (regardless of opposition). Long has repeatedly shown, both for club and country, that he needs more than that.

aramush

aramush wrote: »

Long is a better player than Robbie Keane now.

Perhaps, but not a better goalscorer.

SirDelboy18

When we have faced big teams, Robbie looked completely out of his depth. It was like we were playing with 10 men. He inhibits our options with regards to formation and tactics, for a goal threat which has certainly diminished somewhat.

Shane Long/Walters offer far more to our team. Long in particular is a strong finisher and is great in the air. He has an unbelievable workrate and good technique. I could go on. Also showed many times this season just gone that he was capable of performing against the best defenders in the league.

I've already said how Keane still has something to offer vs poorer teams and is a great option to have from the bench and around the dressing room. I think people demanding Robbie play every game are a bit deluded to be honest - he simply doesn't fit any system where we can challenge better teams.

I think both sides are being a bit funny, the quotes of him being a 1 in 2 striker compared to Long, despite Long never getting international starts until this campaign was hilarious. On the other side the quotes about Keane needing to retire are ridiculous too.

aramush

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

When we have faced big teams, Robbie looked completely out of his depth. It was like we were playing with 10 men. He inhibits our options with regards to formation and tactics, for a goal threat which has certainly diminished somewhat.

Shane Long/Walters offer far more to our team. Long in particular is a strong finisher and is great in the air. He has an unbelievable workrate and good technique. I could go on. Also showed many times this season just gone that he was capable of performing against the best defenders in the league.

I've already said how Keane still has something to offer vs poorer teams and is a great option to have from the bench and around the dressing room. I think people demanding Robbie play every game are a bit deluded to be honest - he simply doesn't fit any system where we can challenge better teams.

I think both sides are being a bit funny, the quotes of him being a 1 in 2 striker compared to Long, despite Long never getting international starts until this campaign was hilarious. On the other side the quotes about Keane needing to retire are ridiculous too.

Spot on, fair play.

jimjamcos

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

When we have faced big teams, Robbie looked completely out of his depth. It was like we were playing with 10 men. He inhibits our options with regards to formation and tactics, for a goal threat which has certainly diminished somewhat.

Shane Long/Walters offer far more to our team. Long in particular is a strong finisher and is great in the air. He has an unbelievable workrate and good technique. I could go on. Also showed many times this season just gone that he was capable of performing against the best defenders in the league.

I've already said how Keane still has something to offer vs poorer teams and is a great option to have from the bench and around the dressing room. I think people demanding Robbie play every game are a bit deluded to be honest - he simply doesn't fit any system where we can challenge better teams.

I think both sides are being a bit funny, the quotes of him being a 1 in 2 striker compared to Long, despite Long never getting international starts until this campaign was hilarious. On the other side the quotes about Keane needing to retire are ridiculous too.

How exactly does Robbie inhibit our options with regards to formation and tactics? We do not have any tactics bar kick long. Do you think that our tactics would suddenly change with Robbie out of the team? If anything, it would get worse with the two 'hard working' strikers you mention up front.


I'm also puzzled as to what your definition of a "strong finisher" is? Long has showed this season that he was capable of performing against the best defenders in the league alright but he hasn't at any stage been a consistent scorer. In fact, he was not even always first choice. He's scored 16 goals in 2 full seasons with West Brom. I know he's performed with credit (and scored) against sides like Chelsea but often his brilliant build-up play lacks a clinical finish needed.


It's the typical Irish attitude to want out with the old and in with the (relatively) new but in this case all the evidence so far suggests that Long will never be a consistent enough goalscorer to be the main man for Ireland. If you are unwilling to compare both player's international goal ratio, then have a look at their respective club ones. Broadly similar...

Keane: 196 goals in 500 club games = a goal every 2.55 games.

Long: 60 goals in 238 club games = a goal every 3.96 games


I'd, 100%, have Long starting every Ireland game, but never at the expense of a fit Keane.

SirDelboy18

jimjamcos wrote: »

How exactly does Robbie inhibit our options with regards to formation and tactics? We do not have any tactics bar kick long. Do you think that our tactics would suddenly change with Robbie out of the team? If anything, it would get worse with the two 'hard working' strikers you mention up front.


I'm also puzzled as to what your definition of a "strong finisher" is? Long has showed this season that he was capable of performing against the best defenders in the league alright but he hasn't at any stage been a consistent scorer. In fact, he was not even always first choice. He's scored 16 goals in 2 full seasons with West Brom. I know he's performed with credit (and scored) against sides like Chelsea but often his brilliant build-up play lacks a clinical finish needed.


It's the typical Irish attitude to want out with the old and in with the (relatively) new but in this case all the evidence so far suggests that Long will never be a consistent enough goalscorer to be the main man for Ireland. If you are unwilling to compare both player's international goal ratio, then have a look at their respective club ones. Broadly similar...

Keane: 196 goals in 500 club games = a goal every 2.55 games.

Long: 60 goals in 238 club games = a goal every 3.96 games


I'd, 100%, have Long starting every Ireland game, but never at the expense of a fit Keane.

Keane forces us to play with two strikers as he can't play the lone front man. He is very poor in the air compared to our other options so we can't play it long if we want to. Likewise he struggles to hold the ball up as well as the other strikers.

Basically it forces us to play 4-4-2 when we cannot afford to against quality opposition. Long has proven himself against quality opposition on the only occasion he was trusted with a start in this campaign against a good side vs Austria.

Keane may offer a superior goal threat when he is around the penalty area, but the rest of his game is far behind that of Long and Walters, and because we are a limited side, we cannot afford to carry Keane through a game in the hope that he scores.

The evidence against Keane has been there for all to see since June 12 and I've never asked for his retirement, I've continually reiterated that he still has a part to play but he should not be starting against bigger teams.

As for Long not always being first choice, they went with a 4-5-1 and he was fighting with one of the best strikers in the league on form for the season, perhaps even better suited to the role I want Long to fulfill for Ireland.

aramush

Its laughable how people bring up Keanes scoring record in the past, his past records are no good to us now. Okay, he did score five in his last two games and may diminish my above point somewhat but as mentioned, its was against p*ss poor opposition. Fair enough, he has the footballing brain to get into these positions but going by past performances against Sweden, Austria and Germany, he will be no use to us in the rest of the campaign.

Maybe give him a farewell start up front against Kaz in October.

event

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

When we have faced big teams, Robbie looked completely out of his depth. It was like we were playing with 10 men. He inhibits our options with regards to formation and tactics, for a goal threat which has certainly diminished somewhat.

Shane Long/Walters offer far more to our team. Long in particular is a strong finisher and is great in the air. He has an unbelievable workrate and good technique. I could go on. Also showed many times this season just gone that he was capable of performing against the best defenders in the league.

I've already said how Keane still has something to offer vs poorer teams and is a great option to have from the bench and around the dressing room. I think people demanding Robbie play every game are a bit deluded to be honest - he simply doesn't fit any system where we can challenge better teams.

I think both sides are being a bit funny, the quotes of him being a 1 in 2 striker compared to Long, despite Long never getting international starts until this campaign was hilarious. On the other side the quotes about Keane needing to retire are ridiculous too.

He'd want to start showing that.
He's 26 and his club record is 270 games, 73 goals.
For all his attributes, he is not a strong finisher

You'd swear Long was banging them in the way some people are talking. He will never be prolific. He's a 1 in 4 striker at best.

He has only 1 goal scored for Ireland in a meaningful game, and only 4 goals in total in the past 3 years( 3 of these in friendlies)

Not fit to lace Keanes boots tbh.

eagle eye

aramush wrote: »

Its laughable how people bring up Keanes scoring record in the past, his past records are no good to us now. Okay, he did score five in his last two games and may diminish my above point somewhat but as mentioned, its was against p*ss poor opposition. Fair enough, he has the footballing brain to get into these positions but going by past performances against Sweden, Austria and Germany, he will be no use to us in the rest of the campaign.

Maybe give him a farewell start up front against Kaz in October.

Ah here, get a grip and stop before you dig a huge hole for yourself.
He has scored against Russia, Italy and France in the last four years. Ok so he didn't score in the Euros but that means he has a goal in every two games against the big teams over the last four years. Thats a record any top player would be happy with.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah here, get a grip and stop before you dig a huge hole for yourself.
He has scored against Russia, Italy and France in the last four years. Ok so he didn't score in the Euros but that means he has a goal in every two games against the big teams over the last four years. Thats a record any top player would be happy with.

Too late for that

SirDelboy18

rarnes1 wrote: »

You'd swear Long was banging them in the way some people are talking. He will never be prolific. He's a 1 in 4 striker at best.

He has only 1 goal scored for Ireland in a meaningful game, and only 4 goals in total in the past 3 years( 3 of these in friendlies)

Not fit to lace Keanes boots tbh.

Those stats don't seem very good. Oh but wait - He has had 14 starts ever, and has been taken off in 11 of those. The remainder of his appearances were substitute appearances.

This still doesn't change the fact that he offers infinitely more to the team when he isnt scoring compared to a Keane that isn't scoring.

gnfnrhead

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah here, get a grip and stop before you dig a huge hole for yourself.
He has scored against Russia, Italy and France in the last four years. Ok so he didn't score in the Euros but that means he has a goal in every two games against the big teams over the last four years. Thats a record any top player would be happy with.

Way too long of a time frame for someone his age. How many does he have against big teams in the last two years?

Ulysses Gaze

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Way too long of a time frame for someone his age. How many does he have against big teams in the last two years?

How many does Shane Long have? Or Jon Walters?

SirDelboy18

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

How many does Shane Long have? Or Jon Walters?

How many starts have those two been granted?

Son Of A Vidic

I've done my bit of slagging of Keane in the past, but when I sit back and look at the milestone he has reached. I have to take my hat off to him. In an era where playing for your country has become increasingly meangingless for some players. It's totally refreshing to see Keane and the passion he has for wearing the Green jersey. So fairplay to him and long may he continue.

aramush

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah here, get a grip and stop before you dig a huge hole for yourself.
He has scored against Russia, Italy and France in the last four years. Ok so he didn't score in the Euros but that means he has a goal in every two games against the big teams over the last four years. Thats a record any top player would be happy with.

You are listing off games where he scored against big teams a long time a go. Just because he was able to do it 4 years ago doesn't mean he is able to do it now. In fact he isn't able to do it now, as proved against the better teams in our WC 2014 qualifying group.

I amn't digging any hole, this is my opinion, challenge it all you want, but it won't be changing.

CSF

aramush wrote: »

You are listing off games where he scored against big teams a long time a go. Just because he was able to do it 4 years ago doesn't mean he is able to do it now. In fact he isn't able to do it now, as proved against the better teams in our WC 2014 qualifying group.

I amn't digging any hole, this is my opinion, challenge it all you want, but it won't be changing.

larchielads

people bangin on about keane packin it in or maybe shouldnt start for ireland and he only scores aginst poor teams and all the rest of it blah blah blah......

eh who scored the other night against a poor team mind you a world cup qualifier, only keane, not the other striker not wes hoolahan not mcgeady not cox walters or any of our other attacking options on the field or anyone else for that matter. keane scored!!! ALL 3 GOALS!

lads he's not messi ronaldo zidane maradonna oranything like that and we're not spain germany italy holland that has a pool of bigger talent to choose from. we're ireland we're not gonna win a world cup or european championship anytime soon so i for one am glad we have robbie keane still bangin in goals for us!!

seriously people are we saying we would be better off without robbie keane in the irish 11 when his record of scoring goals for ireland speaks for itself

Wilberto

The only thing I have to say about Keane is that, yes he may be our all-time record appearance holder, and our record goal scorer, but he still doesn't deserve the tag of "Keano". That's all I could hear from the crowd at the match on Friday and it was cringe-worthy.


So yes, while I do agree that there is only one Keano....

...I think you can see where I'm going with this!!

jimjamcos

Wilberto wrote: »

The only thing I have to say about Keane is that, yes he may be our all-time record appearance holder, and our record goal scorer, but he still doesn't deserve the tag of "Keano". That's all I could hear from the crowd at the match on Friday and it was cringe-worthy.


So yes, while I do agree that there is only one Keano....

...I think you can see where I'm going with this!!

yep...nowhere!

Robbie Keane is, and forever will be, a national legend in Irish football.

Rekop dog

Funny thing is the mongtards in this thread will wait for his first poor performance against a decent team to slaughter him and think it's some sort of justification for their frankly cringeworthy argument here.

monkey9

Laughable thread! 59 goals for the Republic of Ireland and people are having a go. Just shut up!

gnfnrhead

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah here, get a grip and stop before you dig a huge hole for yourself.
He has scored against Russia, Italy and France in the last four years. Ok so he didn't score in the Euros but that means he has a goal in every two games against the big teams over the last four years. Thats a record any top player would be happy with.

Was curious so I went and checked. He has two in the last four years (June 2009 to June 2013) and none since October 2010 (Russia). The other is November 2009 (France).

Since the Russia game we have played Croatia (twice), Russia again, Czech Republic, Spain, Italy, Germany, Sweden and England. Between the France and Russia games we also had Brazil and Argentina. That makes 13 big games and only 2 goals. By my count there have been 23 other games since France for Keane which accounts for 17 goals.

I counted Slovakia in the second group. If you want to change it, feel free. Two games and he didnt score in either.

Seeing as the only argument in favor of Keane has been his goals, I think that proves my point that while Keane is good against the smaller teams, once he comes up against a big team he doesnt add much. Play him against the smaller teams by all means (even though he only had one in about 18 months before his last two games) but he clearly isnt working against the bigger sides. Let Long and Walters start and do all the hard work then Keane can come on in the second half to hopefully improve his record against the bigger teams.

My stance hasnt changed from the start. I dont think he should retire, he just shouldnt be an automatic starter. Hardly anyone has said he should retire but people read the title and come in all guns blazing in defensive mode.

astonaidan

Rekop dog wrote: »

Funny thing is the mongtards in this thread will wait for his first poor performance against a decent team to slaughter him and think it's some sort of justification for their frankly cringeworthy argument here.

Yes, but if he scores, then we will have our time :cool:

Rekop dog

People don't seem to grasp the very basic concept that we're faaaar more unlikely to score against the likes of Germany Spain Brazil Argentina than we are against weaker opposition. We're relative minnows compared to those nations full of champions league stars. RVP would have a terrible goal record for us against these nations if he started up front us, do not fool yourself about that. Still doesn't mean Keane isn't the right man to have there from our limited player base to stick to occasional chance away (naturally less frequent than against Faroes ect..)