Ulster Bank League 2013-2014 talk/gossip/rumours

The Lost Sheep

bamboozle wrote: »

The AIL keeps improving in standard, it helps that academy and development players are getting game time (though non AIL regulars would be surprised that the academy players dont stand out a mile) while i think the general standard has improved also. the IRFU bringing back the top 4 play-off is a great move, while the introduction of friday night matches has seen larger crowds at games and packed bars afterwards.

Next season is already looking interesting, with 1 Limerick team it would make sense that the cream of Limerick academy talent be made available to YM to ensure a strong presence while i'm sure they will be able to attract some good 1A standard limerick players. 6 Dublin teams brings both good and bad, Terenure's welcome return will see 6 teams fighting out for the Dublin talent, the likes of Trinity's prop Martin Kelly has been doing very well for Leinster A's and i'm sure there will be teams trying to sign him. UCD will face a challenge holding onto Barry Daly, Ed Byrne, Jordan Coughlan, Luke McGrath, James Tracey, if they do they'll be strong next season as their players will have learned a lot this year.

AIL standard is very high always has in the top divisions. Its the improvements in the lower divisions that's impressed me most over the past 4/5 seasons.
Academy players do stand out but for the most part they are 18/19/20 year olds only out of playing their own age grade a year or two so for quite a few it takes time to adjust especially when playing the top club players week in week out.
Not sure that it would be best if most of the best young players go to Munsters and don't see it happening as many who have allegiences with Shannon, Garryowen wont move.
6 Dublin sides isn't good for the league as a whole but its up to the rest for that to change.

Stainalert wrote: »

Martin Kelly has signed for Munster next season - Leinster not too happy about it

Munster perfectly entitled to. Leinster cant have any complaints.

yuinc wrote: »

Munster cant develop there own TH props no?

They can but looking at others elsewhere like all provinces do

yuinc

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster perfectly entitled to. Leinster cant have any complaints.

im sure they'd complain if Leinster took someone they identified and developed via their A team.. oh well if that means we can don't have to worry about them trying to poach Furlong i'm happy enough

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

yuinc wrote: »

im sure they'd complain if Leinster took someone they identified and developed via their A team.. oh well if that means we can don't have to worry about them trying to poach Furlong i'm happy enough

Develop him? He wasn't contract or in the Academy so 'Leinster Rugby' have no claim to him. His club side should be given the credit for his development not Leinster.

RobbieRuns

Young men will always go were they see better opportunities and more scope to progress. They will want to play and be given opportunities. If he sees that at Munster, then so be it.

yuinc

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Develop him? He wasn't contract or in the Academy so 'Leinster Rugby' have no claim to him. His club side should be given the credit for his development not Leinster.

would Munster even know who he is if Leinster hadn't have identified him and played in the A team?

He was in the sub-academy. Can't Munster identify and do similar with a club TH from Munster? apparently not.

Good luck to him cause by all accounts he is lovely chap.. but I fear it's just the beginning of an escalation in Leinster's depth in talent being poached by the other provinces.

Beery Eyed

yuinc wrote: »

would Munster even know who he is if Leinster hadn't have identified him and played in the A team?

Probably. It's a pretty small country. If they can't manage to scout players in the AIL then they really aren't doing a very good job of scouting.

CIARAN_BOYLE

yuinc wrote: »

would Munster even know who he is if Leinster hadn't have identified him and played in the A team?

He was in the sub-academy. Can't Munster identify and do similar with a club TH from Munster? apparently not.

Good luck to him cause by all accounts he is lovely chap.. but I fear it's just the beginning of an escalation in Leinster's depth in talent being poached by the other provinces.

Both Cotter and Ryan (current Munster 3rd choice TH & LH) are club LHs and THs that were recruited.

Too old to be considered sub-academy, he was on a training contract with Leinster.

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

It doesnt really make a difference at all where he's come from! Look at connacht, are you going to complain that lads have gone from Leinster there too to have a crack at the professional set up? Think its much better for a lad to take the bull by the horns and have a go at the pro game as Kelly seems to have done with Munsters offer

Hagz

It's great that he's gone to Munster. He's a young irish tight-head with promise. No point in him hanging around Leinster behind Ross, Moore and Furlong playing B&I rugby. If he's got the potential to be a good tight-head, he'll come through quicker at Munster.

Beery Eyed

yuinc wrote: »

but I fear it's just the beginning of an escalation in Leinster's depth in talent being poached by the other provinces.

I really don't see this as a problematic issue though. If anything it's a very positive thing for Irish rugby.

Again, we're a very small country with limited playing resources & only four professional teams. In order to advance we need to make the best use of these limited resources. If one province has several players coming through in one particular position & there's a lack of players at another province I would certainly hope that they would move so that they can play the top level that they possibly can on a more consistent basis

The Lost Sheep

yuinc wrote: »

would Munster even know who he is if Leinster hadn't have identified him and played in the A team?

He was in the sub-academy. Can't Munster identify and do similar with a club TH from Munster? apparently not.

Good luck to him cause by all accounts he is lovely chap.. but I fear it's just the beginning of an escalation in Leinster's depth in talent being poached by the other provinces.

Munster clearly feel he is the best option for what they need. Don't see the need for all your doom mongering. There is plenty in clubs in Munster with involvement in provincial set up who more than likely would have noticed him if he is as good as implied.

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

It doesnt really make a difference at all where he's come from! Look at connacht, are you going to complain that lads have gone from Leinster there too to have a crack at the professional set up? Think its much better for a lad to take the bull by the horns and have a go at the pro game as Kelly seems to have done with Munsters offer

+1. Best of luck to him as its a tough game trying to make it at pro level.

Beery Eyed

In relation to this (Martin Kelly), it's great to see another guy getting a chance at pro rugby after showing well at AIL. I hope he continues to play AIL next season (probably with Young Munster in Div1) when he is not involved with Munster.

The past few seasons have actually been great for the AIL in my opinion. I know that many bemoan the lack of supporters attending games now, and therefore equate this to a drop in quality, but in fact I think the standards are really high now, and consistently improving.

Throughout this season there have been several guys who have shown that they are probably capable of playing at a higher level. Some are the academy prospects who are already lining out for their respective provincial A teams from time to time, but others are guys who were initially overlooked by the provinces and perhaps deserve a chance again to play for a full-time contract.

Overall it's exciting times for the depth of rugby in Ireland right now though, and the AIL is reaping the rewards of it right now with improving standards year on year

The Lost Sheep

AIL awards were tonight
winners
Player of the Year – Division 1A: Danny Riordan, Old Belvedere RFC
Top Try Scorer – Division 1A: Mick McGrath, Clontarf
Top Points Scorer – Division 1A: David Joyce, Clontarf
Rising Star of the Year Award – Division 1A: David Joyce, Clontarf
Coach of the Year – Division 1A: Paul Cunningham, Old Belvedere
Player of the Year – Division 1B: Robert Duke, Terenure College
Player of the Year – Division 2A: Jerome Harimate, Galwegians
Player of the Year – Division 2B: Derek Corcoran, Nenagh Ormond
Club PRO of the Year: Sam O’Byrne, Clontarf
https://community.ulsterbank.com/rugby/news/joe-schmidt-honours-club-rugby-stars-at-awards

.ak

What does PRO stand for?

Buer

.ak wrote: »

What does PRO stand for?

Public relations officer.

At AIL level, that would probably involve match reports, social media etc. as well as any communicating with media. Would have been a big job at Clontarf this year with the Barbarians match and title run in.

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

What does PRO stand for?

As Beur says Public Relations Officer. Will vary from club to club but in most it involves writing match reports, running social media accounts, photos etc

2 games remaining in AIL this season In 1B Shannon make the trip up to County Tyrone to play Dungannon tomorrow while Buccaneers travel to Ballynahinch next Saturday for the last remaining 1A place for next season.

mightymonster

Tom Tierney who is leaving Garryowen after their relegation is set to take over as Cork Constitution coach replacing Tom Mulcahy & Mick O Driscoll

phog

Bateman Cup on RTE2 now, Cork Con just scored a try to go ahead 7-0.

UCD probably deserve to be ahead.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

Bateman Cup on RTE2 now, Cork Con just scored a try to go ahead 7-0.

UCD probably deserve to be ahead.

Con deserved the win. Was only watching bits and pieces of game but Con were much stronger in 2nd half and deserved the win

Ballynahinch beat Buccaneers 35-13 in 1A/1B playoff

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Con deserved the win. Was only watching bits and pieces of game but Con were much stronger in 2nd half and deserved the win

Ballynahinch beat Buccaneers 35-13 in 1A/1B playoff

Displays the massive difference in standard 1A and 1B! Couldn't see two 1B sides coming up

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Ballynahinch retained their Ulster Bank League Division 1A status as they proved too strong and resourceful for Buccaneers when winning Saturday's promotion/relegation play-off 35-13 in front of a bumper attendance at Ballymacarn Park.

It was nip and tuck in the opening half hour but a brace of tries before half-time gave Ballynahinch a 25-10 interval lead and thereafter the Pirates were unable to mount a successful comeback.

A mainly diagonal but changeable breeze did not hamper place-kickers David McIlwaine (two) and Jack Carty (one) as the teams traded penalties early on in the otherwise good conditions.

The opening try arrived on 18 minutes after Rodger McBurney made a strong break and offloaded to McIlwaine who should have scored in the right corner.

Buccs somehow held up this attack but the County Down club recycled possession right to left and winger Robin Harte finished off the move with McIlwaine's conversion giving the hosts a 13-3 advantage.

Buccs responded positively with a splendid Carty break and his inviting grubber kick was fastened onto by Shane Layden for a 28th minute try which Carty, who passed a late fitness test to play, converted.

However, Daniel Qualter was injured in the build-up to this score and the lock's absence was a significant blow for the midlanders.

It took 'Hinch just four minutes to reply and again McBurney made ground much too easily through the visitors' defence and the full-back was on hand to finish off this swift counter attack for a try converted by McIlwaine.

With Buccs prop Diarmuid Higgins in the sin-bin, the hosts capitalised and McIlwaine powered forward for a 38th minute try that gave Ballynahinch a solid 25-10 lead at half-time.

Within a minute of the restart, McIlwaine added a penalty but Carty landed a place-kick five minutes later to keep the Athlone side in contention.

The visitors piled on the pressure in the third quarter but without reward, lacking the composure and sheer physical strength to unlock a highly committed and organised 'Hinch defensive effort that was occasionally stretched.

But the nearest the home side came to being breached was when Aaron Cairns was yellow carded on 56 minutes for deliberately handling the ball out of play behind the right corner flag.

'Hinch then took the wind out of the Pirates' sails six minutes later with a little bit of good fortune. A Buccs pass went forward and straight into touch but although referee Sean Gallagher seemed to indicate a scrum, the northerners caught Buccs off guard with a quickly popped ball to McIlwaine on his own 22 and he romped in unchallenged to complete his brace of tries.

His conversion completed the scoring and this touchdown really deflated the visitors whose missed tackles and spurned opportunities proved costly.

Ballynahinch were the sharper, better drilled and hungrier outfit on the day with a superior cutting edge, and they were full value for their win that ensures an Ulster team will again compete next season in the highest division of club rugby in Ireland.

Referee: Sean Gallagher (IRFU)

Hinch: Rodger McBurney; David McIlwaine, Stuart Morrow (capt), Matthew Arneill, Robin Harte; Harry McAleese, Aaron Cairns; Kyle McCall, Jonny Murphy, Christopher Taylor, Kenny Morton, James Simpson, Neil Faloon, David McGuigan, Michael Graham.

Replacements used: Jonny Madden for McGuigan (24-34 mins), Madden for Simpson (50), Stuart Orr for Taylor (56), James McBriar for Faloon (62-67), Aaron Ferris for Morrow, Matthew Nelson for Murphy (both 70 mins), McBriar for Cairns (73).

Bucs: Callum Boland; Billy Henshaw, Conor Finn, Alex Hayman (capt), Shane Layden; Jack Carty, Mark Dolan; Martin Staunton, Garreth Halligan, Diarmuid Higgins, James Tormey, Daniel Qualter, Conor Kindregan, Evan Galvin, Kolo Kiripati.

Replacements used: Ruairi Byrne for Qualter (28 mins), Jacob Walshe for Kindregan (34-44), Walshe for Staunton (50), Eoghan O'Reilly for Henshaw (64), Ben Carty for Hayman (65), Henshaw for Boland (67), Brian Teape for Higgins (75).

Taken from IRFU website.

Stainalert

IRFU have finally sent out new regulations re player transfers / payments etc to clubs this afternoon. Nice of them to finally get around to it considering transfer deadline is June 1st.

Not 100% but looks like there is no cap on player expenses as long as they are vouched (Can anyone confirm?)

If a club wishes to make a complaint about a dodgy transfer they must lodge €500 with the union!!

If there are any accountants out there can you confirm if accomodation qualifies under tax as benefit in kind? If so clubs can't provide accomodation for players

No problem with scholarships as long as they awarded by the academic institution (rather than the sports club) - what scholarships aren't??

Obviously someone in the IRFU thinks this is all a good idea but cannot see how it will actually improve the league. Most depressing fact about all of this is that there has been no energy or thought expended on how to help clubs increase club revenue, build better media exposure, improve standards of playing / refereeing (some of which was awful in the season just gone - sorry lost sheep!)

Really think the clubs should seriously consider a break away league where they can run things as they see fit rather then constantly playing 2nd fiddle to professional rugby agendas (That is all the IRFU care about in reality)

Has anyone ever seen Scott Walker at an AIL game?

The Lost Sheep

Stainalert wrote: »

IRFU have finally sent out new regulations re player transfers / payments etc to clubs this afternoon. Nice of them to finally get around to it considering transfer deadline is June 1st.

Not 100% but looks like there is no cap on player expenses as long as they are vouched (Can anyone confirm?)

If a club wishes to make a complaint about a dodgy transfer they must lodge €500 with the union!!

If there are any accountants out there can you confirm if accomodation qualifies under tax as benefit in kind? If so clubs can't provide accomodation for players

No problem with scholarships as long as they awarded by the academic institution (rather than the sports club) - what scholarships aren't??

Obviously someone in the IRFU thinks this is all a good idea but cannot see how it will actually improve the league. Most depressing fact about all of this is that there has been no energy or thought expended on how to help clubs increase club revenue, build better media exposure, improve standards of playing / refereeing (some of which was awful in the season just gone - sorry lost sheep!)

Really think the clubs should seriously consider a break away league where they can run things as they see fit rather then constantly playing 2nd fiddle to professional rugby agendas (That is all the IRFU care about in reality)

Has anyone ever seen Scott Walker at an AIL game?

There is more than one transfer window and while the announcement of this is close to that window its not that much of an issue. Clubs knew this was coming in.
The €500 cost for appeals/queries is fair as it stops clubs messing by sending in complaints for malicious reasons
Several clubs offer scholorships which are not offered by academic institution. UL Bohemians as opposed to University of Limerick offer a scholarship as do many other clubs..
I haven't seen all the proposals yet so cant fully comment but I think they primarily are ok and good for the game.
Clubs have to look to their own resources and better improving their own abilities to increase revenue etc. IRFU can aid them but its primarily themselves that have to do the work in those areas. On improving standards of coaching and refereeing we need better education and more assessors. This has to come from a top down approach and start with coaches in clubs at senior level working with all coaches on teams below them
Personally I think clubs would be idiotic to think about breaking away. When the sport went pro it was always going to happen that the club game was going to be second fiddle especially with the rise of the provinces. I love the club game and probably I prefer it to the pro game but we would be much worse off by breaking away.
The IRFU do care about the league and don't care just about the pro game. If that was the case then the league would be nothing on what it is.

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Bit of movement down south. YM signing Rob Guerin, Gearoid Lyons, and young 15 going into the Academy. Jack Cullen to Shannon, Jamie Glynn being linked to YM as well. Nevillie Melbourne returning after a year with Clonmel.

Rumours of Bohs having signed 6 ex-academy lads (recently released/left) including Niall Kenneally

The Lost Sheep

TG4 have a round up of this seasons AIL at 2pm Saturday.

RobbieRuns

Are there any places that you can get the seasons stats for the AIL ? top scorer in each league, tries scored, kicking percentages etc?

The Lost Sheep

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Are there any places that you can get the seasons stats for the AIL ? top scorer in each league, tries scored, kicking percentages etc?

Nowhere where you will get anything like kicking percentages.
Top try scorer and points scorer in 1A are easily known as the person with most in each category won an award at AIL awards. Top Try Scorer was Mick McGrath, Clontarf and Top Points Scorer was David Joyce, Clontarf.

Will guess top try scorer in 2B is one of the Nenagh players Rory O Brien or Derek Corcoran and their kicker Donal Fogarty as top points scorer.
1B most points and most trys will be Terenure players I imagine. Not sure on 2A.

CatFromHue

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

TG4 have a round up of this seasons AIL at 2pm Saturday.

Bugger I meant to watch that. Hopefully they'll put it up in the Player.