Irish Exemption?

Jack_OLantern

So, I'm doing the JC now, and I'm doing fine in most subjects except for Irish, which I'm not great at. I'll do it for the JC, but I'm wondring if I qualify for an exemption as I was born in America and lived there for over 4 years. I attended primary school here, though.

My other option would be to sit the OL exam in 5th Year instead of 6th, so that I could concentrate on my other subjects and get Irish out of the way. I'm doing TY so I technically have 2 years of "education" already. Is this possible?

Thanks

cfc.forever

No that is not possible, if you spent most of your primary school years here in Ireland, although theres nothing stopping you if you make an agreement with your teacher that you could study in Irish class, I highly doubht your teacher would allow that though, and no you can't do the exam in 5th year, Transition year does not count as a year in the Leaving Course

Sadly I think you're going to have to continue with Irish, but goodluck :P theres another route you could go down which is getting an exemption from an educational psychologist but you need a good damn reason.

Canard

No, you can sit it at the end of 5th year I'm pretty sure. The rule is to have 2 years between your two sets of exams, one being TY and one being 5th year.

I don't know much about exemptions but I think people here have said before that you can get them by being born outside of Ireland, so it would be worth looking into. Good luck!

Peregrine

There have been a few threads about this here before.

I was born outside Ireland and only moved here when I was 10. I did Irish because the rule was, 'if you enrolled in the Irish education system before 11, you had to do Irish'.

Anyway, now in 5th year after 6 or 7 years I finally managed to work my way out of it.

Here's my post of few of the previous threads:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83429640&postcount=5
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81581461

Remember, the NUI cannot exempt you from learning Irish. They can only exempt you from their pass in Irish requirement to get into NUI/UCC/UCD etc.

I got an exemption from NUI and after a lot of debating with my teachers and principal, I worked out an agreement where I just stay in class and do my work because it's absolutely no use to me. If you cannot do that, you still have to actually study Irish. Whether you sit the LC Irish is totally your choice.

rainbowtrout

Canard wrote: »

No, you can sit it at the end of 5th year I'm pretty sure. The rule is to have 2 years between your two sets of exams, one being TY and one being 5th year.

I don't know much about exemptions but I think people here have said before that you can get them by being born outside of Ireland, so it would be worth looking into. Good luck!

But not if you started school here before the age of 11. The OP said they lived in America for four years, presumably the first four years of their life so they are no worse off than any other student learning Irish and will just have to do it like everyone else.

Just Like Heaven

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Remember, the NUI cannot exempt you from learning Irish. They can only exempt you from their pass in Irish requirement to get into NUI/UCC/UCD etc.

I got an exemption from NUI and after a lot of debating with my teachers and principal, I worked out an agreement where I just stay in class and do my work because it's absolutely no use to me. If you cannot do that, you still have to actually study Irish. Whether you sit the LC Irish is totally your choice.

My experience was the exact same as this OP. The NUI exemption isn't really an exemption (but if you know you're 'confident' you'll be going to one of those schools, then it is effectively). Check out there website I'm not sure but I think places like NCAD and RCSI are now included as well under the NUI scheme, if those are any good to you.

If you're sure you'll be going to one of those schools it's dead handy, you just post in your birth cert along with the form on their website (when you've applied for the cao in sixth year), if you're not as decided which is likely considering your year, it might be a good idea to not drop out of your Irish class just yet.

Oh, and it doesn't matter how long were you were in another country etc. So long as you weren't born in Ireland.

Jack_OLantern

From reading the posts, no one seems quite sure of the answer as there are several different opinions.
It seems that;
A. I don't qualify for exemption according to the board of education.

B. By doing TY, I can(?) do it in 5th Year, but it may cost money as a repeat to do my other exams in 6th.

C. I can get an exemption from an NUI if I choose to go there i.e. They will accept me without an Irish LC.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks lads.

PS Is it true you don't need Irish for Trinity? That might be another option.

Jack_OLantern

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Oh, and it doesn't matter how long were you were in another country etc. So long as you weren't born in Ireland.

So I do qualify? Everyone seems to have different opinions on this! One things for sure, it seems like it's been deliberately made unclear so people like at me will just assume that we have to do Irish! My guidance councelor wasn't much help either!

Peregrine

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

From reading the posts, no one seems quite sure of the answer as there are several different opinions.
It seems that;
A. I don't qualify for exemption according to the board of education.

B. By doing TY, I can(?) do it in 5th Year, but it may cost money as a repeat to do my other exams in 6th.

C. I can get an exemption from an NUI if I choose to go there i.e. They will accept me without an Irish LC.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks lads.

PS Is it true you don't need Irish for Trinity? That might be another option.

Apologies if it was confusing. I agree it's a really confusing procedure and a lot of people mislead you. I went through the same crap for a few months before I gathered all the info I needed.

Tell you what, let's call the NUI exemption the "NUI waiver", it'll be much easier.

The Department of Education requires every student in Ireland to learn Irish unless they came into the country after they were 11 or if they have a learning disability. I'm not exempt, you're not exempt, nobody is unless they qualify for either one of those.

As for needing Irish to get into college:

DCU requires a pass in English or Irish
Trinity requires English and any second language.
NUI colleges including UCD and UCC requires both English and Irish.

So really, the only universities that require you to pass Irish are the NUI colleges. This is where their waiver comes in. They will "waive" this requirement if you were born outside Ireland. So if you fail Irish for the Leaving Cert or didn't sit the exam at all, you can still get into the main colleges provided you have English (and a second language for TCD).

But that's just NUI and they don't have any control over your secondary education. But most people, myself included use this NUI waiver and work out a deal with their teacher or principal where they don't have to study Irish. For some people it's as easy as claiming they have an exemption and showing them the NUI waiver, for me it took a lot of talks with my teacher, form teacher and principal by myself and my parents. This isn't guaranteed though.

You should still get the NUI waiver in case you don't do well in it or don't even want to do the exam. Here's the form, print it, fill it out and send it in.

As for doing the LC Irish in 5th year, I know nothing about it, sorry.

Just Like Heaven

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

So I do qualify? Everyone seems to have different opinions on this! One things for sure, it seems like it's been deliberately made unclear so people like at me will just assume that we have to do Irish! My guidance councelor wasn't much help either!

I'm only speaking on behalf of the NUI exemption thing, it isn't a proper exemption, just you send them on your birth cert and they notify the CAO.

So long as it says on your birth cert you were born outside of the country you will be eligible for it, but you don't apply for this through your school, they won't do it for you. You have to post off the birth cert and filled out form yourself, when you've applied to the CAO. And again, don't go dropping Irish until you're confident you'll be attending an NUI. It's also your responsibility to make sure once the NUI grant you the exemption that your CAO account is updated (I actually applied for this exemption twice, cause I applied to the CAO twice and had no problems with this either time, but still remember to check, just in case).

And yeah the schools don't seem to know much about it, my Irish teacher, principal and two guidance councillors (one of which told me she rang people up for me) told me that I wouldn't get an exemption out of it, I told them I was gonna send off for it anyway and see what happened, and sure enough letter came in the post a week later granting me an exemption :rolleyes:

As for TCD I think most courses don't require Irish, but a few might + Probably not a good idea to bank on going to one college. Check out the matriculations yourself in their prospectus.

thisisadamh

Here is my story if it helps. I was born outside of Ireland and moved here when I was 8 years old. I was not eligible to get an exemption from Irish from the Dept of Education. But I was able to get an expemption from the Irish language requirement for 3rd level from the NUI. I still had to go to Irish class, but I did not do the Leaving Cert Irish exam. You just print out and fill out the form on the NUI website, get your principal to sign it and send it off with your birth cert.

MathsManiac

OP,

The correct position is exactly as stated by Nimrod7 in post #9.

If your situation is as you described, then you are not exempt from the Department of Education's requirement that you study Irish. You will certainly succeed in getting an exemption from the NUI requirement (assuming you have a birth cert showing where you were born). Nimrod7 is also correct regarding TCD.

Just for information, the reason that the school needs to ensure that you continue to attend classes in Irish is because they are not entitled to count you as a recognised pupil for the purpose of their funding from the Department unless you do. That is, the Department won't pay them for teaching you unless you are studying Irish or have a Department exemption from it.

Finally, even if you do succeed in getting permission to sit LC Irish at the end of 5th year, this still won't exempt you from the Department's requirement that you continue to study it. Therefore, it would seem a pointless exercise in light of your certain qualification for the NUI exemption.

Jack_OLantern

OK, I get it now, I have to get an exemption from the NUI if I choose to go there. Thanks guys. One more question; do I have to have been accepted before I get the "waiver"? When will they give you one?

Thanks for all your help.

thisisadamh

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

OK, I get it now, I have to get an exemption from the NUI if I choose to go there. Thanks guys. One more question; do I have to have been accepted before I get the "waiver"? When will they give you one?

Thanks for all your help.

http://www.nui.ie/college/docs/exemption.pdf
You fill out section A and B. They will send you a letter confirming your exepmtion. When you know your CAO number you contact them and give them that so they can record the exemption with the CAO. Thats it.

Just Like Heaven

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

OK, I get it now, I have to get an exemption from the NUI if I choose to go there. Thanks guys. One more question; do I have to have been accepted before I get the "waiver"? When will they give you one?

No, send off for your NUI exemption as soon as you get you make a CAO application, before Christmas in sixth year (ish), so you can give them your CAO number. NUI will post you a letter of confirmation back and your CAO account should be updated acknowledging your exemption.

Edit; Or apply for it and send them on the CAO number later on, as posted above.

Jack_OLantern

Thanks lads, you've been a great help.

Peregrine

You might want to apply for it now if you want to try and use it to "get out of Irish"

You'll get it within a week after you apply, attach a copy of your non Irish birth cert.

Jack_OLantern

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

You might want to apply for it now if you want to try and use it to "get out of Irish"

You'll get it within a week after you apply, attach a copy of your non Irish birth cert.

Will they accept it this early?

Peregrine

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

Will they accept it this early?

Yeah it's grand. Just make sure to give them your CAO code when you get it.

Or you can apply when you're halfway through 6th year and give them your code while applying.

Jack_OLantern

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Yeah it's grand. Just make sure to give them your CAO code when you get it.

Or you can apply when you're halfway through 6th year and give them your code while applying.

I'll give it a go! Thanks

FueledByAisling

cfc.forever wrote: »

No that is not possible, if you spent most of your primary school years here in Ireland, although theres nothing stopping you if you make an agreement with your teacher that you could study in Irish class, I highly doubht your teacher would allow that though, and no you can't do the exam in 5th year, Transition year does not count as a year in the Leaving Course

Sadly I think you're going to have to continue with Irish, but goodluck :P theres another route you could go down which is getting an exemption from an educational psychologist but you need a good damn reason.

Actually no. I just got one for my leaving cert! I was born in another country but have attended school in Ireland my whole life and got one

Jack_OLantern

FueledByAisling wrote: »

Actually no. I just got one for my leaving cert! I was born in another country but have attended school in Ireland my whole life and got one

How did you manage that?

Peregrine

FueledByAisling wrote: »

Actually no. I just got one for my leaving cert! I was born in another country but have attended school in Ireland my whole life and got one

An exemption from learning Irish? From the Department of Education?

amys1234

i am a thinking about applying for the NUI exemption as i was born outside of Ireland, i go to a private grind school so does anyone no if its easier to negotiate about having to still attend Irish classes if you go to a grind school?