Dodgy neighbour has a new dog

mosi

Quite a few of you will probably remember last winter when I took in the mastiff and Rottie pup from a neighbour.
The Rottie girl is doing great in her new home, while the big boy is a permanent fixture with us.
Anyway, the arsehole owner has a new pup - a female Doberman Pinscher
I just saw his young daughter who visits him, out on the street with the pup (no sign of him). No collar or lead, pup running out on to the road (like the last ones used to do). No sign of him either. The pup was just procured today and looks very young. The girl didn't know the age. She said that he got the dog for her but, when asked, said the dog will be living with him. I may have mentioned before that I suspect he gets dogs just so that the kids will want to come and visit. I remember before, he mentioned wanting to breed the Rottie so his kids could see pups being born. He probably has similar ambitions for this new one.
This is just another disaster waiting to happen. I'm thinking that the DSPCA will have to be called. The question is when should they be called? As he has just gotten this pup, do I have to wait to see signs of neglect? Neither me nor the OH have spoken to him since we got the dogs off him (we've hardly even seen him), so I don't know how closely we can watch him. I know they are limited on what they can do...while I know he is incapable of caring for dogs, I'm sure they can only go on the current situation. I called them the last time but, as the dogs were no longer in his custody, there was nothing they could do, nor could they take a record of the call.

jackpension

In all honesty, and being as polite as I can, I'd simply recommend minding your own business.

Obviously, if the dog interferes with you or your property, or if you witness cruelty or neglect, then it is time to get the authorities involved. But until that point, you have no basis or business doing so

(caveat: I'm not familiar with the particulars of your last posting).

ABajaninCork

Details of the previous rescue here.

OP, there's nothing you can do at the moment, but to watch and wait. The minute the dog looks to be in trouble, you'll have to make the call. I just hope something can be done...:(

mosi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Details of the previous rescue here.

OP, there's nothing you can do at the moment, but to watch and wait. The minute the dog looks to be in trouble, you'll have to make the call. I just hope something can be done...:(

Cheers, I was just about to post the link up.
It's so frustrating, knowing how he treated the dogs before. The only reason me or the OH ever spoke to the guy before was because we used to see him with the dogs, and were concerned about the big boy's weight. We only got to see the living conditions when he told us he wanted rid of him. It's unlikely we'll be going inside the place any time soon so all there will be to go on, is what we observe in public.

Bullseye1

Unfortunately the country is full of people like this who threat their pets like disposable objects. I guess all you can do is monitor the situation. Since the DP is a RB as an owner it shouldn't be allowed loose on the road and should have a collar with identification. Inform him of his responsibilities as an owner of a RB.

ShaShaBear

I would actually alert someone sooner rather than later to have them prepared for a decline in the puppies conditions. Seriously though, this owner seems to be targeting a lot of RBs and clearly can't manage any breed of a dog - let alone one that comes with its own special set of rules! :eek:

I remember your last thread, so sad that the owner couldn't see sense after losing two dogs. It's too easy for some people.

mosi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I would actually alert someone sooner rather than later to have them prepared for a decline in the puppies conditions. Seriously though, this owner seems to be targeting a lot of RBs and clearly can't manage any breed of a dog - let alone one that comes with its own special set of rules!

I remember your last thread, so sad that the owner couldn't see sense after losing two dogs. It's too easy for some people.

It's like he's going through the list. He told us before that he previously had an Akita
I spoke to the guy earlier. The OH and I were walking past on our way into town and we bumped into him. He was quick to blame the mishaps with the other dogs on him "being on the drink". He claimed that he had 4 people lined up to take the Rottie (he never mentioned that when he handed us the mastiff...he made quite a point that he had "always done well with Rottweilers).
He told us that he got the Dobie because his kids who
visit were begging him to get a dog and he couldn't say no. The OH and I told him about the RB responsibilities (emphasising our experience of owning an RB...because of him) but he didn't even seem interested in getting a collar for the dog. When he told us about how quick the Dobie is regarding housetraining, I mentioned how the breed is very intelligent and needs a lot of stimulation. His response was that he didn't know that . The Dobie is 7 weeks old. He got the Rottie at 6 weeks, and we learned tonight that the mastiff was also 6 weeks when he got him. The guy claimed the mastiff had been thrown out onto the street when he got him (the irony) so who knows when he was taken from his mother.
We were told that the person who sold him the Dobie is also selling the mother. They are also selling a Presa Canario (not related to our guy). This guy was told that the Presa would be given to anyone that would give them a "€50 bag of weed".
I've been thinking about this and have decided to call the DSPCA on Monday. Even if there is nothing they can do now, at least they will have the heads up for if (when) I need to call them again. The mastiff came to us with behavioural issues that we are working on and can manage...that is a key reason why we decided to keep him. The Rottie got away young enough before damage was done. Both dogs were in poor physical condition. The arsehole couldn't even remember the mastiff's age.
I can only see the situation with the new pup ending badly. We can't keep taking them in from him, he needs an official wake up call.

ABajaninCork

Yeah, I've been thinking about this over the weekend too. The guy hasn't got a clue, and worse still he's got another RB. I don't believe he 'got the dog for the kids'. There's something else going on here. I also think he has other issues.

Anyway - I'm rambling. Could you not also report him to the Dog Wardens as well? At the very least, he's not keeping the Dobie in accordance with the law, as an RB. Tell them you've taken other dogs from him for the same reasons too.

I really hope this works out...

Tranceypoo

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Yeah, I've been thinking about this over the weekend too. The guy hasn't got a clue, and worse still he's got another RB. I don't believe he 'got the dog for the kids'. There's something else going on here. I also think he has other issues.

Anyway - I'm rambling. Could you not also report him to the Dog Wardens as well? At the very least, he's not keeping the Dobie in accordance with the law, as an RB. Tell them you've taken other dogs from him for the same reasons too.

I really hope this works out...

Agree with this and think you're right about calling the DSPCA, perhaps the only small silver lining is that because the dog is an RB the laws are tighter and might just work in your/the dogs favour in this case. Here's hoping, keep us updated OP.

ShaShaBear

Is it possible, if he's bad on drink or abusing substances, that he might have deluded himself into getting these RBs for safety?

Obviously the treatment of them is not on regardless, but it seems odd that he picks the more threatening of the RBs and they end up roaming around the front of his house?

mosi

Well, I rang the DSPCA and, as I thought, there is nothing they can do at the moment . They advised me to keep an eye on the situation and to call back when things start to go wrong.
I tried ringing the warden today, but couldn't get through so will try again tomorrow. I remember that I used to see the warden around here before, and that the neighbour mentioned him having a "friendly chat" with him about the last dogs, so it is another angle to try. May be interesting, considering the on-the spot fines that are coming in.
He still has no collar or lead for the pup. The OH ran into him again, and commented that she's going to be a big dog. He said he wasn't so sure about that :eek:
He could easily just dump this pup on the street, or hand her over to one of his dodgy mates before the DSPCA can get involved.
I don't know what his thing is with the RBs. It could be a delusional sense of security. I think it may be that having a large RB gives him some sense of misplaced adequacy, to make up for his obvious shortcomings.

Bullseye1

As the dog is a restricted breed I do not understand "nothing can be done"?? Has the dog warden been notified? I applaud you OP. It really must be disheartening to see this happen again.

mosi

Bullseye1 wrote: »

As the dog is a restricted breed I do not understand "nothing can be done"?? Has the dog warden been notified? I applaud you OP. It really must be disheartening to see this happen again.

I meant in terms of the DSPCA. The RB issues are the warden's remit. I couldn't get through to the warden today so will be trying again tomorrow. There is a raft of stuff the warden could potentially do him for...the RB issues, no ID on the pup, am pretty sure he doesn't have a licence. I've also noticed that he's letting the pup out to use the street as a toilet and is not picking up.
There is a risk that, if he is fined, he might just dump the dog. However, I'm convinced that is going to happen anyway at some point. At least if there is some official involvement, he may think twice before acquiring some other unfortunate pet.

mosi

FFS! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
What is it with this muppet that a bad situation always gets worse?

He has gotten a Presa Canario. The 9 month old female that the breeders of his Dobie were selling. Unlike the last one (about which I was always skeptical of the Presa label), this girl is the real deal. He just got her today...of course, as soon as we saw him walk past, we were straight down to him. As he has no garden, he was sitting out on the street with the dog (Doberman locked inside, Presa on lead) for most of the day, smoking dope with his gormless next door neighbours. The poor dog was very subdued and clearly having a crap introduction to her new surroundings. One of his clearly stoned neighbours got water for the dog and it took his young daughter to notice that it was a bowl of hot water.
He plans to breed from this dog...he actually said that it would be a good way to make some beer money :eek:!
The entire situation is so wrong, on so many levels...I'm stunned, I hardly know what to say. For one thing, he has recreated the situation that he was unable to manage the last time.
I didn't call the warden in the end last week because I saw he had gotten a lead for the pup, and I was unsure if they would take the muzzling issue seriously given the pup's age. With this new dog in the picture now, I can call. The OH just came in from the shops and spotted the guy and his daughter (aged about 8) walking the dogs. He had the pup and the child had the 45kg Presa. No muzzle either. I disagree with BSL, but it might just be of use in this situation. Also, with the big girl, that yard he has will quickly look like it did before. I imagine she'll start to lose condition soon as well , so maybe the DSPCA will be able to get involved sooner.

ABajaninCork

Nope! Enough is enough now. Call the DSPCA and the Gards now. The child should NOT be walking the Presa Canario in any case, puppy or not. The dogs aren't being kept according to the law, never mind following the principles of responsible pet ownership.

As a matter of interest. Why didn't you call the warden last week? The fact the Dobies now has a lead isn't enough. Dog shoudl've been muzzled too...

mosi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

As a matter of interest. Why didn't you call the warden last week? The fact the Dobies now has a lead isn't enough. Dog shoudl've been muzzled too...

As the Dobie is just 7 weeks now, I didn't know if the warden would consider being unmuzzled as too much of an offence. I want to get this right, so that the complaint is taken seriously. Also, yesterday marked the introduction of the new fines concerning RBs, so that played into it as well.

Don't worry, I'll be calling them on Tuesday. There is no question now, legally speaking, that he is in contravention of the Control of Dogs Act. I'll call the DSPCA again as well. They are so restricted by the law in what they can do, I don't know if they'll act, but I'll still call. I have the name of the person I spoke to there, so it should still be fresh in her mind.

Bullseye1

The Dog Warden should get an injunction against this guy preventing him owning a dog. Can you give us more details. Is he employed/unemployed? Living in private accommodation? Can you contact the landlord?

How is he getting such a rare breed? I really hate dog owners like this. It's people like this we have to thank for restricted lists in the first place.

DBB

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Can you give us more details. Is he employed/unemployed? Living in private accommodation?

Can I just check here... I'm assuming the slant here is that the OP might make a complaint to Revenue, or the Council if in council-funded accommodation?

mosi

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The Dog Warden should get an injunction against this guy preventing him owning a dog. Can you give us more details. Is he employed/unemployed? Living in private accommodation? Can you contact the landlord?

How is he getting such a rare breed? I really hate dog owners like this. It's people like this we have to thank for restricted lists in the first place.

He is unemployed and living in private rented accommodation. I don't know who the landlord is. I don't even know the guy's full name, just his first name (which may even be a nickname).
Can a dog warden get such an injunction? It seems that, legally speaking, everything is so constrained
Regarding the breed, it was the same person who sold him the Dobie (they were also selling the mother of the Dobie). The dogs were advertised on a certain website. I was able to find the ad, given the dog's descriptions...the Dobies were going for 200 and the Presa 250. Last week, the neighbour had mentioned that these people were selling the Presa (didn't mention that he was buying her) and that they were happy to take a €50 bag of weed for the dog

DBB

mosi wrote: »

Can a dog warden get such an injunction? It seems that, legally speaking, everything is so constrained

No, he/she can't. Only a judge can order a person from keeping animals for a specified length of time. So, obviously, a case such as this would have to go to court and the person charged with cruelty. You probably don't need me to tell you that this is... unlikely

Bullseye1

DBB wrote: »

Can I just check here... I'm assuming the slant here is that the OP might make a complaint to Revenue, or the Council if in council-funded accommodation?

I thought I read somewhere that one of the Dublin LAs prohibited the keeping of RBs. As this is private accommodation if you could find out the Landlords name you could warn them of the dangers/implications of his tenant and the keeping of these dogs when it is quite obvious he shouldn't been keeping a goldfish let alone a Cane Corso.

If Social Welfare were aware he was purchasing dogs by illegally bartering with drugs they have something to say also along with The Garda, Customs and Excise and Revenue. I don't normally condone such actions but this guy seems to be an exceptional case.

ABajaninCork

DBB wrote: »

Can I just check here... I'm assuming the slant here is that the OP might make a complaint to Revenue, or the Council if in council-funded accommodation?

It's got nothing to do with Revenue...

mosi wrote: »

He is unemployed and living in private rented accommodation. I don't know who the landlord is. I don't even know the guy's full name, just his first name (which may even be a nickname).
Can a dog warden get such an injunction? It seems that, legally speaking, everything is so constrained
Regarding the breed, it was the same person who sold him the Dobie (they were also selling the mother of the Dobie). The dogs were advertised on a certain website. I was able to find the ad, given the dog's descriptions...the Dobies were going for 200 and the Presa 250. Last week, the neighbour had mentioned that these people were selling the Presa (didn't mention that he was buying her) and that they were happy to take a €50 bag of weed for the dog

If it's private, and IF you want to go down the route of telling the landlord; you may be able to check with the PRTB who the landlord is. IF the property's registered. Unfortunately, the PRTB's online records aren't great and you might have to ring them direct to find out the details.

mosi

DBB wrote: »

Can I just check here... I'm assuming the slant here is that the OP might make a complaint to Revenue, or the Council if in council-funded accommodation?

There are other issues he can be reported for (eg admitted and witnessed substance abuse) but, as they are not directly related to the dogs, I don't see what good that would do. Even if I tracked down his landlord and they wanted him out, it probably wouldn't help the dogs.

DBB wrote: »

No, he/she can't. Only a judge can order a person from keeping animals for a specified length of time. So, obviously, a case such as this would have to go to court and the person charged with cruelty. You probably don't need me to tell you that this is... unlikely

That's what I thought. It seems to be in only the most extreme cases that people get banned from keeping animals. I'm not confident that the DSPCA will be able to do anything at this stage...they said that if someone went out now, and the dogs seemed ok, a later complaint may not be taken seriously. They agreed that he sounded like a dreadful dog owner but their hands are tied. I'll see what advice they can give now, but it probably won't have changed. There may be grounds for the warden to do something, be it a warning or a fine. He's so idiotic it probably won't have any effect but it still needs to be pursued.

ABajaninCork

Sadly, they probably won't/can't. But at least this idiot'll be on notice with them.

DBB

ABajaninCork wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with Revenue...

Well.... it does. If someone is selling pups and not declaring the income from it, it's a possible avenue which was explored by AGS and ISPCA when prosecuting puppy farmers and BYBs. It is also a possible avenue which could be explored by anyone trying to get to the bottom of the problem here.
It's an indirect way of getting a result: cf Al Capone.

DBB

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I thought I read somewhere that one of the Dublin LAs prohibited the keeping of RBs.

Yes, indeed you're right, it was a regulation introduced by Dublin City Council which they can only apply to their houses, so this doesn't apply in this case, unfortunately.

As this is private accommodation if you could find out the Landlords name you could warn them of the dangers/implications of his tenant and the keeping of these dogs when it is quite obvious he shouldn't been keeping a goldfish let alone a Cane Corso.

You'd probably have to assume the landlord wouldn't give a rat's butt as long as he gets his money... but you never know, it might be worthwhile appealing to his better nature!

If Social Welfare were aware he was purchasing dogs by illegally bartering with drugs they have something to say also along with The Garda, Customs and Excise and Revenue.

As above.. there may just be more than one way to skin a cat, though I wouldn't envy poor Mosi all this bother:(

Bullseye1

Surely swapping €50 worth of drugs for a dog is also illegal. Having that much weed could been seen as "distribution".

mosi

DBB wrote: »

Well.... it does. If someone is selling pups and not declaring the income from it, it's a possible avenue which was explored by AGS and ISPCA when prosecuting puppy farmers and BYBs. It is also a possible avenue which could be explored by anyone trying to get to the bottom of the problem here.
It's an indirect way of getting a result: cf Al Capone.

It could only be done when there are pups to be sold though. However, that is something to bear in mind, re Social Welfare, if he even manages to hold onto the dogs for that long.

ABajaninCork

DBB wrote: »

Well.... it does. If someone is selling pups and not declaring the income from it, it's a possible avenue which was explored by AGS and ISPCA when prosecuting puppy farmers and BYBs. It is also a possible avenue which could be explored by anyone trying to get to the bottom of the problem here.
It's an indirect way of getting a result: cf Al Capone.

Maybe so. But it would be difficult, if not impossible to prove. IMO, going to Revenue is a waste of time. If one were going down the route of going to authorities (other than the AW ones), then informing the landlord would be one of the the logical places to start. However, eviction would be a very slow and expensive process. Ultimately, it doesn't help the dogs and will just shift the problem elsewhere. Welfare would be the first place I'd go to.

mosi

Well, I called the DSPCA again and, as I thought, nothing can be done yet.
I called the warden as well and they can't do anything either. He has a muzzle for the Presa now and, although he was outside his place with the dog without a muzzle, the warden would have to catch him in the act. The puppy is not required to wear a muzzle, while he does not have to have a licence yet (he has a month to get one). As for the child holding the dog, that would have to happen on her own, away from the house...and again, be caught in the act.
All I can do is wait and watch

mosi

I'm away at the moment but the OH gave me an update. He saw the guy, and he told him that he returned the Doberman pup to the breeder. I checked the website where the dogs had been advertised and, sure enough, the pup is back for sale. Hopefully, she'll get lucky with her next home. At least she's away from him. He said that he couldn't manage two...you think he would have known that after last time.