Soccer draft legends discussion thread

IncognitoMan · 09-06-2013 2:35pm

So heres my final team. Fairly happy with the way its worked out. Although nobody really has a weak team

Sorry G.K you'll have to play second fiddle to Seaman

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 09-06-2013 2:38pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think there is a reason some of us went for full backs relatively early, the real quality ones are thin on the ground, and you are then into the likes of Evra who many people will scoff at. Got to be honest though, Evra in his prime was a much, much better fullback than Baines or Le Saux, and Clichy shouldn't even be mentioned in this discussion.

Clichy was better than Evra for a couple of seasons. He then seriously dropped off for whatever reason and has gotten back into it somewhat for City.

Moneymaker · 09-06-2013 2:59pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pearce > Evra imo. Extraordinary player for a long time. Played the game properly too.

I certainly considered him. Evra has played at a higher level and won more medals though.

I wanted to pick Schnellinger but he got snapped up right before my pick. :mad:

Red Crow · 09-06-2013 3:00pm

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Clichy was better than Evra for a couple of seasons. He then seriously dropped off for whatever reason and has gotten back into it somewhat for City.

lol

Clichy was never better than Evra despite how bad Evra was at times.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 09-06-2013 3:03pm

Eli Manning wrote: »

lol

Clichy was never better than Evra despite how bad Evra was at times.

Was voted in the team of the season ahead of him in 2007/2008. But you can just keeping loling away to yourself if it makes you happy.

Moneymaker · 09-06-2013 3:12pm

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Was voted in the team of the season ahead of him in 2007/2008. But you can just keeping loling away to yourself if it makes you happy.

As opposed to Evra's 3 times.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 09-06-2013 3:16pm

Moneymaker wrote: »

As opposed to Evra's 3 times.

I didn't say he was better overall. I said he was better for one or two seasons.

Felexicon · 09-06-2013 3:28pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pearce > Evra imo. Extraordinary player for a long time. Played the game properly too.

As opposed to Evra who doesn't play the game properly?

LuckyLloyd · 09-06-2013 3:50pm

Felexicon wrote: »

As opposed to Evra who doesn't play the game properly?

? Comment nothing to do with Evra.

Pearce had an incredibly unique style and approach to the game. One of the toughest players I've ever seen.

Moneymaker · 09-06-2013 3:59pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

? Comment nothing to do with Evra.

Pearce had an incredibly unique style and approach to the game. One of the toughest players I've ever seen.

Unique? As in hack the ****e out of the other guy?

redzerdrog · 09-06-2013 11:56pm

any idea who is up next i cant seem to find the picks order?

IncognitoMan · 10-06-2013 12:01am

Sorry about the hold up I forgot to pm redzerdrog after my pick

Blatter · 10-06-2013 12:02am

redzerdrog wrote: »

any idea who is up next i cant seem to find the picks order?

It's G.K., I PMd him there for ya.

IncognitoMan · 10-06-2013 12:02am

Current draft order:

Morzadec
Copper_pipe
Jax Teller
Bucketybuck
Eli Manning
Bounty Hunter
IncognitoMan
redzerdrog
G.K
eugeneious
ITT-Pat
Blatter
Knex.
whatawaster
Trippie
Moneymaker

G.K. · 10-06-2013 12:29am

I edited the picks thread to put it on the front page earlier, for future reference.

Copper_pipe · 10-06-2013 6:48am

Junior has already been picked

eugeneious · 10-06-2013 7:14am

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Junior has already been picked

Apologies. Changed now!

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 8:58am

Finished team .

Would appreciate some feedback on it if anyone would like to do so .

Bounty Hunter · 10-06-2013 9:29am

Jax Teller wrote: »

Finished team .

Would appreciate some feedback on it if anyone would like to do so .

constructive feedback without coming across as critical can be difficult but ill try.

How much has Bale played on the right? I know he has had more of a free attacking role this season and could cut inside to great effect with his left but against the best LBs ever he could struggle although the LB position seems to be one with perhaps less depth going by recent on thread discussions.

Having Ronaldo as the focal point of your attack though will compensate for most things people can say against Bale or Ribery though.

Neuer is solid in goal, but probably no better in most peoples minds than most of the other goalies picked but your defense is strong. I'd worry if the non participants voting would know & rate all of your defense when voting but if they assume they are strong then your team as a whole looks good because you CM trio is one of the strongest and fits together very well. A top quality DM, creative yet defensive CM and and attacking mid who could see your side do very well with possesion.

IncognitoMan · 10-06-2013 11:18am

I was thinking about Bergkamp when I picked Shevchenko so to get him now is some going

SlickRic · 10-06-2013 11:20am

i have no idea how Bergkamp made it this far.

Knex* · 10-06-2013 11:43am

I had considered him for ages but decided I needed more of a goal getter as my main striker. He wouldn't have fit in anywhere else in my team either unfortunately.

Delighted to be able to pick up Pearce now. Said it in the pick thread, but when the talk on him came up here I started doubting the fact that he was still to be picked. Thankfully he wasn't.

Knex* · 10-06-2013 11:54am

Final draft.

Any feedback is much appreciated.

bucketybuck · 10-06-2013 11:58am

Jax Teller wrote: »

Finished team .

Would appreciate some feedback on it if anyone would like to do so .

My first impressions, for what its worth...

- Not a fan of the Bale and Ribery picks, they will suffer badly in comparison to some other teams with proper legends of the game. Bale also looks badly out of place on the right.

- The midfield looks very good, three players that complement each other. I do think the team lacks a Baggio/Rivaldo/Zidane type player though, to take that midfield possession and translate it into goals.

- Neuer is not a legend. You can pick him, but he is a minus for me.

- I don't know anything about your defenders, save perhaps Lucio. If they are up against the Ronaldos or Batistutas it will be hard for me to be confident they could handle it, and my vote could go to the attacking team based on that alone. Its my ignorance perhaps, but its my vote also.

Morzadec · 10-06-2013 12:04pm

SlickRic wrote: »

i have no idea how Bergkamp made it this far.

For me it's very clear why - because he is a number 10 and there are a plethora of great number 10s in the game, and most of us already had these greats so were not going to add in Bergkamp.

Baggio is another one who lasted very long, I kept thinking 'when is he going to go?', but I was never going to bring him in and I can see why some others left him too.

The pickers who picked them probably realised they could leave the likes of these picks til later and get away with it, which is good strategy. The pickers who didn't probably all have better number 10s or are playing a system without space for a Bregkamp type of player (JaxTeller's team for example).

So in a way it's not a great shock that Bergkamp fell so low.

bucketybuck · 10-06-2013 12:08pm

Knex. wrote: »

Final draft.

Any feedback is much appreciated.

My thoughts:
- I had hoped to get Effenburg, he's a good pick, I wonder if people realise how good?

- There are a few strikers I would have went with before Rummenigge. He a legend of course, but will he get the votes?

- Width might be a problem if needed.

- Solid defence, no real issues there.

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 12:16pm

Bale is perfectly capable of playing wide right as is Ribery . There is no problem with both wingers switching position .
If you don't rate Ribery your opinion is simply not worth paying any attention to the guy is unreal and has been for a number of years .
37 Goals & 69 assists from the wing for Ribery over the past 3 seasons is simply incredible .

Also I'd much rather have actual wingers than have a number 10 playing out wide . Makes no sense to me.

Knex* · 10-06-2013 12:18pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

Bale is perfectly capable of playing wide right as is Ribery . There is no problem with both wingers switching position .
If you don't rate Ribery your opinion is simply not worth paying any attention to the guy is unreal and has been for a number of years .

Also I'd much rather have actual wingers than have a number 10 playing out wide . Makes no sense to me.

If that's to do with my team then both Ronaldinho and Nedved spent pretty much the entirety of their pomp playing from wide positions. Although Nedved did play more on the left than the right but he was very comfortable from both.

If that's not to do with my team and just your general reasoning behind picking your wingers, nevermind

Thecon21 · 10-06-2013 12:19pm

Knex. wrote: »

Final draft.

Any feedback is much appreciated.

Excellent defence here with the GK included.

Only issue would be with width but a solid team I reckon

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 12:19pm

Knex. wrote: »

If that's to do with my team then both Ronaldinho and Nedved spent pretty much the entirety of their pomp playing from wide positions. Although Nedved did play more on the left than the right but he was very comfortable from both.

If that's not to do with my team and just your general reasoning behind picking your wingers, nevermind

It's nothing to with your team I hadn't even seen it when I wrote it .

IncognitoMan · 10-06-2013 1:22pm

In the premier league draft it was easy enough for voters to identify weak spots in posters teams ( I should know I constantly had to defend my defence

) But here its so much more difficult. The match ups will be interesting.

Here's my side anyway. Any glaring problems I should be aware of?

bucketybuck · 10-06-2013 1:37pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

Bale is perfectly capable of playing wide right as is Ribery . There is no problem with both wingers switching position .
If you don't rate Ribery your opinion is simply not worth paying any attention to the guy is unreal and has been for a number of years .
37 Goals & 69 assists from the wing for Ribery over the past 3 seasons is simply incredible .

Also I'd much rather have actual wingers than have a number 10 playing out wide . Makes no sense to me.

Nice. I'm curious why you even asked for peoples feedback, but so be it.

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 1:39pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nice. I'm curious why you even asked for peoples feedback, but so be it.

Pull me up on something I'm wrong about ?
Also define a football legend for me please ?

bucketybuck · 10-06-2013 1:45pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

Pull me up on something I'm wrong about ?
Also define a football legend for me please ?

Its whomever you want it to be.

Donnielighto · 10-06-2013 1:54pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

Pull me up on something I'm wrong about ?
Also define a football legend for me please ?

Jax Teller wrote: »

Bale is perfectly capable of playing wide right as is Ribery . There is no problem with both wingers switching position .
If you don't rate Ribery your opinion is simply not worth paying any attention to the guy is unreal and has been for a number of years .
37 Goals & 69 assists from the wing for Ribery over the past 3 seasons is simply incredible .

Also I'd much rather have actual wingers than have a number 10 playing out wide . Makes no sense to me.

Well in terms of the voting you're wrong about that and tbh you seem pretty dismissive of constructive criticism. Bale hasnt produced good enough for long enough to be a legend

ITT-Pat · 10-06-2013 2:00pm

IMO people are putting way too much emphasis on the term 'legend'. On the flipside, earlier on in the thread people were putting too much emphasis on the term 'in their prime'

Benimar · 10-06-2013 2:00pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

My first impressions, for what its worth...

- Not a fan of the Bale and Ribery picks, they will suffer badly in comparison to some other teams with proper legends of the game. Bale also looks badly out of place on the right.

- The midfield looks very good, three players that complement each other. I do think the team lacks a Baggio/Rivaldo/Zidane type player though, to take that midfield possession and translate it into goals.

- Neuer is not a legend. You can pick him, but he is a minus for me.

- I don't know anything about your defenders, save perhaps Lucio. If they are up against the Ronaldos or Batistutas it will be hard for me to be confident they could handle it, and my vote could go to the attacking team based on that alone. Its my ignorance perhaps, but its my vote also.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Bale and Ribery CAN play on opposite wings, but it won't be as strong as teams who have 2 players in their 'natural' positions.

Centre midfield is great and you have a fantastic forward. Deschamps is probably the best player you could have in the holding position.

100% agree on Neuer, not a legend for me - not yet anyway, he has 10 years to go though. Back 4 is strong though.

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 2:06pm

ITT-Pat wrote: »

IMO people are putting way too much emphasis on the term 'legend'. On the flipside, earlier on in the thread people were putting too much emphasis on the term 'in their prime'

Agree with the legend bit .

In their prime/peak is part of the rules though that is how players should be judged .

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 2:11pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Well in terms of the voting you're wrong about that and tbh you seem pretty dismissive of constructive criticism. Bale hasnt produced good enough for long enough to be a legend

There was no requirement to pick legends . Anyway your definition of a legend could differ to mine & everyone else.

SlickRic · 10-06-2013 2:11pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

Agree with the legend bit .

In their prime/peak is part of the rules though that is how players should be judged .

so i'll agree with the bit that suits me, but query the bit that doesn't.

nice

SlickRic · 10-06-2013 2:13pm

"legend" means, i'd have thought, at the very basic level, someone whose achieved a lot in the game. someone who, if the game ended tomorrow, would be remembered for years to come.

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 2:21pm

SlickRic wrote: »

so i'll agree with the bit that suits me, but query the bit that doesn't.

nice

Show me in the rules where it says anything about legends?

I could have picked some older wingers If i wanted to but I wanted 2 with pace on the wing & who offered me a good goal threat with a good work rate . Ribery & Bale both offer me that .

I feel I've constructed a well balanced team who should be judged in/on their prime/peak as the rules state and not whether you or anyone else considers them to be a legend .

Donnielighto · 10-06-2013 2:21pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

There was no requirement to pick legends . Anyway your definition of a legend could differ to mine & everyone else.

that was in reference to the piece i quoted

Donnielighto · 10-06-2013 2:21pm

when will we be voting?

Blatter · 10-06-2013 2:23pm

SlickRic wrote: »

"legend" means, i'd have thought, at the very basic level, someone whose achieved a lot in the game. someone who, if the game ended tomorrow, would be remembered for years to come.

My understanding as to why it's called a 'legends' draft is simply because of the fact that you can pick legends.

The aim of the draft should still be to pick the best team possible. I don't understand why you'd pick player A, who had inferior ability to player B, just because player A is currently considered more of a 'legend' than player B.

It just weakens the strength of your team.

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 2:35pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

when will we be voting?

Still 2 more people to finish their teams. Would imagine it will be tomorrow or Wednesday before the matches start .

Bounty Hunter · 10-06-2013 2:40pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

when will we be voting?

when quaterfinals are posted after each participant lays out how their team will play in that thread.

it will be team vs team though and which would win so people should remember it will be which team would beat the other people will be voting on not individually who has the best players.

We also decided at the start that all votes (inc non participants) will count and that only in the event of a tie will this change where only those who posted why they voted in such a way will have their votes count.

What makes one team better than another or more likely to win is up to each individual voter though and there isnt much you can do bar when you explain how your team will play to change that. So if for example my CF who has the all time best goals to game ratio isnt well known enough that some voters will rate him, my teams chances may be hurt at voting time but I guess I knew that when picking him and I would hope with only a small number of players in each game who may fall into this catagory voters will check up on the players or at least be influenced by the write ups before voting.

Bounty Hunter · 10-06-2013 2:44pm

Blatter wrote: »

My understanding as to why it's called a 'legends' draft is simply because of the fact that you can pick legends.

The aim of the draft should still be to pick the best team possible. I don't understand why you'd pick player A, who had inferior ability to player B, just because player A is currently considered more of a 'legend' than player B.

It just weakens the strength of your team.

pretty much the tag "Legends" was mostly used because it's what differentiates this draft from others where usually there would be a legends round where older players were eligible to be drafted but now they are eligible at all times.

and yeah just pick the best team possible that would be able to beat the other teams drafted hopefully in the match ups to follow which would be voted on

Jax Teller · 10-06-2013 2:49pm

BH I appreciate all the effort you put into this draft but I feel we might have started too soon maybe we should discussed it a bit longer .

Bounty Hunter · 10-06-2013 2:56pm

Jax Teller wrote: »

BH I appreciate all the effort you put into this draft but I feel we might have started too soon maybe we should discussed it a bit longer .

I'd agree but it's always the same in these things, once the idea is posted and we have enough people ready to compete people rarely talk rules, they assume there wont be any issues until they arise. Think there was a 2 day period in this thread before it started when I was asking if anyone thought any rules needed to be looked at or put in place but with so many names who had been in previous forum drafts an nothing much mentioned we just ran with the previous format with the only real changes being legends always eligible and a order reversal every 2nd round.

we still havent gotten to any match ups being posted though so if anyone has any suggestions for something to be added to the OP of match threads or as a voting rule or anything, suggest it now and we can still make changes

Soccer draft legends discussion thread

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