Confederations cup 15th-30th june

Amirani

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Seriously, like. Uzbekistan. What the fuck?!

What difference does that make?

Knex*

Neymar is a fantastic talent, he really is. However, I hated seeing the way he bought that free for his goal. Completely threw his leg into Maggio before throwing himself over.

Maggio never had a chance really.

Knex*

NiallSparky wrote: »

What difference does that make?

Can you imagine the standard of his usual weekend game?

No way would he be used to this speed and level.

Headshot

You know iv been very disappointed with Buffon in this tournament. Is he this poor in Italy too?

Turtwig

Headshot wrote: »

You know iv been very disappointed with Buffon in this tournament. Is he this poor in Italy too?

He hasn't been as good with a while back. Not sure why he's still the first choice tbh.

Smithwicks Man

Headshot wrote: »

You know iv been very disappointed with Buffon in this tournament. Is he this poor in Italy too?

Poor positioning for the free. Wouldn't blame him for the 1st however

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Maggio gets in his path and there's a tangle of legs. It may be debatable that Neymar connected with his long on purpose but it is just that, debatable, the referee called it as he saw it and your claims that it's a blatant dive cant be proved unless you have the ability to read Neymar's mind, the dig at Barcelona was also childish.

Ah come on now. It was a blatant dive, he clearly kicks Maggio's legs and falls over. If the judgement on if a player dived is just by being able to read his mind then it's possible no player ever dived.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Ah come on now. It was a blatant dive, he clearly kicks Maggio's legs and falls over. If the judgement on if a player dived is just by being able to read his mind then it's possible no player ever dived.

In this particular case though there is clear contact between both players. This isn't a case of the player falling without any contact or reason. Therefore it is debatable as to whether Maggio intentionally tripped him, whether it was an accidental and inevitable coming together or whether Neymar intentionally kicked the back of his leg to get a freekick. Nobody, including you or I, can say for sure whether it is a blatant dive or not except those involved.

Knex*

Ahh come on. His leg moved in a completely unnatural manner in order to deliberately hit the back of Maggio legs. Then he levitated a good three feet of the ground. Also unnatural.

It was a dive. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind the excessive simulation when a defender throws his leg in, but Maggio did no such thing. Neymar orchestrated the entire 'foul'.

Smithwicks Man

Knex. wrote: »

Ahh come on. His leg moved in a completely unnatural manner in order to deliberately hit the back of Maggio legs. Then he levitated a good three feet of the ground. Also unnatural.

It was a dive. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind the excessive simulation when a defender throws his leg in, but Maggio did no such thing. Neymar orchestrated the entire 'foul'.

And he did likewise 6 or 7 times in the match as well. Every time he was touched, he went down and threw hi body way up into the air to simulate that each tackle was far worse than it was.

This, added to the fact that he fouled the opposition 4 times himself, after being booked, without the referee so much as giving him a warning is what leads me to be of the opinion that the referee was very biased towards him and Brazil in general

Andersonisgod

Knex. wrote: »

Ahh come on. His leg moved in a completely unnatural manner in order to deliberately hit the back of Maggio legs. Then he levitated a good three feet of the ground. Also unnatural.

It was a dive. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind the excessive simulation when a defender throws his leg in, but Maggio did no such thing. Neymar orchestrated the entire 'foul'.

I don't agree, indeed his strides appear quite straight, until Maggio brings part of his body across, causing contact between both players legs. If you are as light as Neymar, as quick as Neymar and you've just changed direction sharply then it's not altogether surprising that he's risen off the ground from the challenge.

As I've said, there's no way you, I or anybody but Neymat can conclusively prove that.

Turtwig

Oh for God's sake.

It is possible that neymar unintentionally put his leg there. Perhaps circumstances outside his control conspired with him colliding with Maggio in that exact manner. (Maybe a louse bit his knee?)
The problem for neymar is similar occurrences were happening ALL game! ! On the balance of probability the most logical conclusion is that he wasn't playing for the free serendipitously.

Andersonisgod

Jernal wrote: »

Oh for God's sake.

It is possible that neymar unintentionally put his leg there. Perhaps circumstances outside his control conspired with him colliding with Maggio in that exact manner. (Maybe a louse bit his knee?)
The problem for neymar is similar occurrences were happening ALL game! ! On the balance of probability the most logical conclusion is that he was playing for the free serendipitously.

Like I've said previously I'm not saying that that may be exactly what happened, perhaps what you say may be the truth. My point is it is equally plausible that Maggio sees Neymar cutting inside, he knows Neymars has options to pass to and so he intentionally fouls him. Equally it may be possible that both players collided accidentally with both having only eyes for the ball.

My only issue here is with people labelling it a dive and Neymar a diver when the issue is clearly quite debatable and, realistically, impossible to prove conclusively.

Knex*

Right, there clearly is no point going any further on this issue. But your stance on it is truly baffling.

The point about Maggio intentionally fouling him is madness when you consider he never even moved towards him.

Smithwicks Man

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Like I've said previously I'm not saying that that may be exactly what happened, perhaps what you say may be the truth. My point is it is equally plausible that Maggio sees Neymar cutting inside, he knows Neymars has options to pass to and so he intentionally fouls him. Equally it may be possible that both players collided accidentally with both having only eyes for the ball.

My only issue here is with people labelling it a dive and Neymar a diver when the issue is clearly quite debatable and, realistically, impossible to prove conclusively.

I can't understand how even the most biased fan could try to say that it was a foul. It boggles the mind and removes credibility from your future posts

Andersonisgod

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I can't understand how even the most biased fan could try to say that it was a foul. It boggles the mind and removes credibility from your future posts

Wow, you've taken my posts and turned them into something completely different. I'll try again.

My point is simple. Nothing can be proven by any of us. I accept Neymar may have played for the freekick. However that cannot be proven. It is POSSIBLE that the collision is accidental on the part of both players. It is POSSIBLE that Maggio fouls him seeing that his side is in danger. I have no opinion on which of the three it is, for me it is far too close to argue strongly for any of the three possibilities. So no, I'm not saying it was definitely Maggio's fault, please read my comments again if you think that's what I was saying, I am saying though that you can't argue for one possibility with absolute conviction because it is impossible to prove 100% correct.

SlickRic

enough of this diplomacy. seriously.

it wasn't a foul. it just wasn't. I know it. everyone watching knows it.

I don't see the point in denying it. it makes no difference. he got the free. he scored it. saying it was a bought free kick is not going to take that fact away.

he is a diver. the world knows it. we've seen it all tournament. he's been renowned now for a while for it. it is what it is.

admit Neymar's faults. it's ok. he's still a brilliant player.

Oat23

Andersonisgod wrote: »

My only issue here is with people labelling it a dive and Neymar a diver

He is a diver. He has dived many times to win freekicks/penalties.

Sometimes he goes down easy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZLhGf-xXcg

But many times he just plain dives, no debating it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXc6TobMr8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ols38pfWI

I am a fan of his and I desperately want to see him succeed in Europe to shut up the haters, but he's a diver. I know it and everyone else does.

Ronan|Raven

He will fit in perfectly with the rest of the divers at Barca.

Headshot

Neymar is far far far worse than Sanchez for diving, one of the worse around

Smithwicks Man

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Wow, you've taken my posts and turned them into something completely different. I'll try again.

My point is simple. Nothing can be proven by any of us. I accept Neymar may have played for the freekick. However that cannot be proven. It is POSSIBLE that the collision is accidental on the part of both players. It is POSSIBLE that Maggio fouls him seeing that his side is in danger. I have no opinion on which of the three it is, for me it is far too close to argue strongly for any of the three possibilities. So no, I'm not saying it was definitely Maggio's fault, please read my comments again if you think that's what I was saying, I am saying though that you can't argue for one possibility with absolute conviction because it is impossible to prove 100% correct.

What are you talking about?

It was, in my opinion, 100% not a foul. The rules are plain for all the read.

Forget about whether he dived or not. I'm saying that the free shouldn't ahve been given because it was not a foul. Just because it wasn't a foul, doesn't mean it was necessarily a dive.

Under the rules, it was not a foul. The referee was wrong and I can say this with 100% conviction.

Turtwig

Headshot wrote: »

Neymar is far far far worse than Sanchez for diving, one of the worse around

Thing about Sanchez is given how bad his year was you just didn't know if he was diving or being clumsy. He was very clumsy in front of goal.:pac:
(Some of those "dives" may have been accidental scuffed shots.)

dreamers75

I thought you had to be over 13 to register on boards?

Andersonisgod

Obviously this is going absolutely nowhere. Clearly not everyone watching didn't think it was a foul, among those numbers would be the FIFA appointed referee. To claim that everybody thought it wasn't a freekick or that it 100% wasn't a freekick is just silly. Anyway clearly some people have already made up their minds about him and fair enough, if that's the opinion that they have of the player then that's just the way it is and I can't possibly change that.

My opinion of him is that he is a sublime talent, probably the finest talent to emerge from Brazil since Ronaldinho. I believe that he is a fantastic signing for Barcelona, a game-changing signing. My opinion is that he is accused sometimes of diving, even tonight on a few different occasions, when really I think he goes to ground because of his weight, his pace and his quick feet. Does he occasionally feign injury to gain an advantage? Probably, you'd b hard pressed to find many top level footballers who don't do this to some degree. My opinion is that some people like to criticise, they've nitpicked an aspect of his game and had a go at it, personally I'd much rather talk about his genius, he's been named man of the match for Brazil in all 3 of their games so far in this tournament, again tonight he has scored a quite brilliant goal and he has led this Brazilian side, playing under enormous pressure in their own nation, to the top of their group and to the semi finals.

Skylinehead

Jernal wrote: »

He hasn't been as good with a while back. Not sure why he's still the first choice tbh.

Buffon was brilliant for a Juve team that had the best defence in Italy by a large distance (24 goals vs 36 for the next). He should absolutely be first choice, he's easily one of the best keepers in the world and hasn't really lost anything.

Smithwicks Man

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Obviously this is going absolutely nowhere. Clearly not everyone watching didn't think it was a foul, among those numbers would be the FIFA appointed referee. To claim that everybody thought it wasn't a freekick or that it 100% wasn't a freekick is just silly.

I can see how somebody may have thought it was a foul on first viewing (I didn't) but I don't understand how you can look at a replay of the incident and say that it was a foul? There's no grey area here. It wasn't like the Balotelli penalty claim where you can say "I've seen them given". It was not, under any circumstances, a foul. The referee was wrong to give it.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyway clearly some people have already made up their minds about him and fair enough, if that's the opinion that they have of the player then that's just the way it is and I can't possibly change that.

My opinion of him is that he is a sublime talent, probably the finest talent to emerge from Brazil since Ronaldinho. I believe that he is a fantastic signing for Barcelona, a game-changing signing.

This doesn't make him a bad player. The lad is an exceptional talent and I too hope to see him do well and possibly become a better, more influential attacking player for Barca than even Messi. He is exciting to watch and his unpredictability is enthralling. This is a different argument entirely though.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

My opinion is that he is accused sometimes of diving, even tonight on a few different occasions, when really I think he goes to ground because of his weight, his pace and his quick feet.

That's because he does dive, regularly. His weight is not as big an issue as you might think. Don't be fooled by his small physique. Neymar has a very low centre of gravity and would be very hard to knock down for even the strongest of players. Plus, the manner in which he throws his legs sky high into the air after every tackle is ridiculous.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Does he occasionally feign injury to gain an advantage? Probably, you'd b hard pressed to find many top level footballers who don't do this to some degree.

That is nonsense. There are countless professionals out there who don't act in this manner. A childish response by all accounts. You realise you're losing an argument so your response is "sure everyone's doing it".

Andersonisgod wrote: »

My opinion is that some people like to criticise, they've nitpicked an aspect of his game and had a go at it, personally I'd much rather talk about his genius, he's been named man of the match for Brazil in all 3 of their games so far in this tournament, again tonight he has scored a quite brilliant goal and he has led this Brazilian side, playing under enormous pressure in their own nation, to the top of their group and to the semi finals.

Agreed. There are many out there that want him to fail. I hope he proves them wrong. His ability and potential is undoubted. The fact that he is able to illustrate his talent on the international stage at such a young age is a credit to the lad.

I would like to see him play in the European club scene where the standard is much higher, imo, than in South America. I only wish he had gone to a different league than La Liga. The quality of defending is quite poor in some respects and teams feel as though Barca already have them beat before they take to the field. Nevertheless, I hope he proves his doubters wrong.

Anyhow, my original point had more to do with the referees being biased towards Brazil as they were the home crowd and Neymar just happened to be the one who was on the receiving end of many of the frees.

Andersonisgod

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I can see how somebody may have thought it was a foul on first viewing (I didn't) but I don't understand how you can look at a replay of the incident and say that it was a foul? There's no grey area here. It wasn't like the Balotelli penalty claim where you can say "I've seen them given". It was not, under any circumstances, a foul. The referee was wrong to give it.



This doesn't make him a bad player. The lad is an exceptional talent and I too hope to see him do well and possibly become a better, more influential attacking player for Barca than even Messi. He is exciting to watch and his unpredictability is enthralling. This is a different argument entirely though.



That's because he does dive, regularly. His weight is not as big an issue as you might think. Don't be fooled by his small physique. Neymar has a very low centre of gravity and would be very hard to knock down for even the strongest of players. Plus, the manner in which he throws his legs sky high into the air after every tackle is ridiculous.



That is nonsense. There are countless professionals out there who don't act in this manner. A childish response by all accounts. You realise you're losing an argument so your response is "sure everyone's doing it".



Agreed. There are many out there that want him to fail. I hope he proves them wrong. His ability and potential is undoubted. The fact that he is able to illustrate his talent on the international stage at such a young age is a credit to the lad.

I would like to see him play in the European club scene where the standard is much higher, imo, than in South America. I only wish he had gone to a different league than La Liga. The quality of defending is quite poor in some respects and teams feel as though Barca already have them beat before they take to the field. Nevertheless, I hope he proves his doubters wrong.

Anyhow, my original point had more to do with the referees being biased towards Brazil as they were the home crowd and Neymar just happened to be the one who was on the receiving end of many of the frees.

Again that goes back to my original point. I have no opinion of it because it is nigh impossible to say what is correct, mainly because there is contact between both players.

I was adding colour to my post and it was all leading somewhere.

I disagree, I'm sure his low centre of gravity probably helps but unlike say, Xavi, who rarely has to break into a full sprint, Neymar does, the freekick in question occurs when Neymar is dribbling at pace, having just made a sharp change in direction, suddenly his weight and speed are factors.

Some day if we are watching the same game, ask me to point out dives or exaggerations of fouls and I can promise you that I will be able to name 5 separate players who, in any game, have dived or exaggerated a challenge in order to gain an advantage for their team.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Again that goes back to my original point. I have no opinion of it because it is nigh impossible to say what is correct, mainly because there is contact between both players.

I was adding colour to my post and it was all leading somewhere.

I disagree, I'm sure his low centre of gravity probably helps but unlike say, Xavi, who rarely has to break into a full sprint, Neymar does, the freekick in question occurs when Neymar is dribbling at pace, having just made a sharp change in direction, suddenly his weight and speed are factors.

Some day if we are watching the same game, ask me to point out dives or exaggerations of fouls and I can promise you that I will be able to name 5 separate players who, in any game, have dived or exaggerated a challenge in order to gain an advantage for their team.

There is not contact between both players. There is only contact from Neymar toward Maggio.

His weight and speed aren't as big a factor as the one where he puts his foot into the back of Maggio's leg and goes down, how are you not seeing that? None of this 'we'll never really know' stuff. He's been doing this for ages anyway, it's no big deal to admit he dives. Other players diving has absolutely nothing to do with it either. He's a fantastic talent who dives from time to time.

klose

Obviously they are very important players in de rossi and pirlo but to be relying on a 34 year old player to get the most out of the team must be worrying for most italin fans, he was quiet enough v japan and it showed and tonight it showed again how much he is important. Now theres nothing wrong with relying on him as hes stagnated at a level of brilliance for what seems forever now but hell eventually call it a day and i cant see any remotely close players like him for italy atm..

dreamers75

klose wrote: »

Obviously they are very important players in de rossi and pirlo but to be relying on a 34 year old player to get the most out of the team must be worrying for most italin fans, he was quiet enough v japan and it showed and tonight it showed again how much he is important. Now theres nothing wrong with relying on him as hes stagnated at a level of brilliance for what seems forever now but hell eventually call it a day and i cant see any remotely close players like him for italy atm..

Dont understand why Mario and El Shaarway.... are not played together.

El Shar.....is my top pick for best young player in the world atm. lad has serious talent.

GTR63

dreamers75 wrote: »

Dont understand why Mario and El Shaarway.... are not played together.

El Shar.....is my top pick for best young player in the world atm. lad has serious talent.

He isn't full fit tbh and doubt he's settled as Milan are hopping back n forth with comments about his availability.
As far as Italy relying on Pirlo, I think anyone would rely on him. Few teams have a player even like that now that can control the game BUT they should of rested him vs Japan as asking him to play 3 games in 7 days is too much. I wish Montolivo could perform for Italy in that kinda role like he does for Milan he was great this season once he got settled in. They have Verratti too who is a bit like Pirlo but at 20 he's in his infancy(go look up where Pirlo was and where he was playing on the pitch then).
Oh and he can't of lost a yard or that as he never had that yard anyway.

Optimalprimerib

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Again that goes back to my original point. I have no opinion of it because it is nigh impossible to say what is correct, mainly because there is contact between both players.

I was adding colour to my post and it was all leading somewhere.

I disagree, I'm sure his low centre of gravity probably helps but unlike say, Xavi, who rarely has to break into a full sprint, Neymar does, the freekick in question occurs when Neymar is dribbling at pace, having just made a sharp change in direction, suddenly his weight and speed are factors.

Some day if we are watching the same game, ask me to point out dives or exaggerations of fouls and I can promise you that I will be able to name 5 separate players who, in any game, have dived or exaggerated a challenge in order to gain an advantage for their team.

Im pretty sure messi would be in or around the same stature as neymar and he doesn't dive. The only thing I can be 100% certain of is if that defender was putting on a barca jersey this august instead of neymar your opinion wouldbbe the polar opposite

SlickRic

I'd much rather talk about his brilliance too.

but when he falls at every little opportunity, it gets difficult to ignore that side of it.

it also makes it difficult when fans are purposely ignorant to it just because he's from "their team".

Andersonisgod

I think Kenny Cunningham has been sucked in by the German approach. His clear unappreciation of Spain is ridiculous.

Sadlier making much more sense. I think he's spot on in everything he is saying at the moment.

GTR63

Kenny Cunningham said Gotze of Milan.
Didn't hear that great news altogether.

aindriu80

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I think Kenny Cunningham has been sucked in by the German approach. His clear unappreciation of Spain is ridiculous.

Sadlier making much more sense. I think he's spot on in everything he is saying at the moment.

I can't fault him for that. I don't care for Spain and I don't think they understand the world around them enough to take football to the next level. That's not saying they are a great team etc but sometimes its a bit z.z.z.z.z.

The Germans play regular football and their play is connected to your head and is more physical. They are jammy though and are quite annoying when they get things jammy.

Spain to win of course.

Johner

Nigeria are woeful.

aindriu80

That didn't take long.
Terrible defence though.

Kylo Ren

Lovely goal, got a bit lucky.

SlickRic

Nigeria are so poor in defence.

Iniesta is ridonkulous though.

Andersonisgod

Goal! Goal! Goal! Spain! Unbelievable tiki taka! Rapid fire passing in midfield, they find the rampaging Alba whose footwork and composure are up to the task.

GTR63

Anyone getting the Uruguay game all thats there is the crappy antiques roadshow.

SlickRic

you really do have to be taking the píss Anderson.

Pudsy33

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Goal! Goal! Goal! Spain! Unbelievable tiki taka! Rapid fire passing in midfield, they find the rampaging Alba whose footwork and composure are up to the task.

I had you on ignore, but I had to remove you as I couldn't be missing **** like this.

aindriu80

GTR63 wrote: »

Anyone getting the Uruguay game all thats there is the crappy antiques roadshow.

You can probably get it via the red button on BBC Three. Tahiti had me sore with laughter the other night.

Kylo Ren

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Goal! Goal! Goal! Spain! Unbelievable tiki taka! Rapid fire passing in midfield, they find the rampaging Alba whose footwork and composure are up to the task.

Andersonisgod

Spain are playing some top quality football. The first half against Uruguay and this so far are much better than Spain looked at Euro 2012 (except the final)

Johner

Mikel. :rolleyes:

keith16

Iniesta is simply an outstanding player.

SlickRic

Nigeria will score.

the only thing is their defending is lolbad.