Confederations cup 15th-30th june

Charlie19

Spain are overrated.

GTR63

Omackeral wrote: »

Go away Ronnie Whelan. His 'insight' is woeful but that half Scouse half Dub accent is criminal.

It always reminded me of Snotser from the Den.

Hulk Hands

Lennonist wrote: »

Maybe Brazil have chinks, I'd still say Spain wont win. Germany would be the immediate alternative option. If I was a bookie I'd lay Espanya.

Price dictates what they should lay. Spain will start the tournament too big a price just like the Euros because the average punter is sick of them winning and looks for alternatives. Again like the euros Germany will be much too short on what they've achieved. I'd imagine support will come for Argentina and Belgium, leaving them too short in the market

Marty McFly

dfx- wrote: »

Italy I can understand because of how they've played against Spain and have showed they can compete.

Portugal I can understand for the same reason.

Now Brazil, if the stars align and are playing at home.

But Germany? Germany retreated into their shell against Spain and lost and shrivelled up against Italy in 2012 and lost. No basis for them in my opinion.

A team who reaches two consecutive semi finals is of coarse going to be a threat going into a World Cup if that isn't basis I don't know what is.

Considering there more than likely going to be a better team with Ozil and Khedira being a bit older, Bayern Munich having just won the Champions League it's a team full of winners.

For me mainly it down to there style of football I just enjoy watching them when there clicking.

MisterAnarchy

carlop wrote: »

I really think he should have changed the team around a bit for the Confederations Cup.

Spain should have sent a second string team to the tournament and given their main players a rest ,one that is badly overdue as alot of the players are exhausted or carrying injuries.
Most of the team have had only one summer off since 2008 (2011) and are completely burnt out.

Xavi is carrying a foot injury,Busquets a groin injury ,Iniesta isnt fully fit either.
Villa has had a poor season ,as has Pedro and Torres shouldnt be in the squad,
Pique is a liability ,the man has been atrocious since he hooked up with Shakira .
Ramos had a poor season too and Casillas was dropped for 5 months
The only Spanish player tonight that had a decent season was Mata ,all the rest were below par.

The high pressing and winning back of the ball employed by Barcelona and Spain over the last 4-5 years is long gone and replaced with slow lethargic play ,its too predictable .

Brazil played well and had the players to exploit the weakness in a jaded Spanish team on the break but I doubt they would get those opportunities against a fully fit/in form Spanish team.

Spain badly needed a rest and without it I cant see them regaining their former glories.

Turtwig

I didn't look. Is there a "Are Spain and Del Bosque done" thread yet? :pac:

So, how does one assess this game? Ronnie's right Xavi is struggling. Spain and indeed Barca don't manage games as successfully without Xavi. He considered retiring after the Euros and, while none of us ever want to see him quit, he's injury all season has shown. He's still a marvellous player who can dictate games but there were once times when it was almost impossible to dispossess him. More crucially though is how the comment "He measured out the pass angle with a protractor before the ball reached him" is more of a rarity now than it ever was. I guess, the question is can he recover? If Pirlo has thought us anything is that you should never write a player off based on age. But Xavi's injury isn't the type of one that will go away. He's playing through a pain barrier and it does show. The harsh conditions would only have served to exacerbate his misery. I feel like emailing the guy and telling him to wear bigger football boots because that should help. (You know, just in case a doctor hasn't told him it.)

Brazil started every game this tournament like an express bullet train. That approach has paid dividends too. If they keep up that approach then they can upset any team. But that's just it "upset". They're still not in the league of Spain, Germany, Italy. And, yes I do realise they just beat two of those teams. I do love Brazil's back line. But if they lose Neymar, he loses form or teams develop means to nullify him (Bad time to move to Barca!), they're in trouble. Yes, you could say that for a lot of countries but no where else does it stick out like such a sore thumb. Even if Argentina lose Messi they've still got a system that you can follow. Brazil just seem like a rigid block. Who knows maybe big Phil is keeping it clandestine?

Fred, is a Mario Gomez. Somehow he just scores. Thought it was hilarious him lambasting Neymar for not passing it to him when Neymar was beyond the last defender and Fred was ahead of Neymar!:D

I love Thiago Silva he's immense! Favourite defender. Maggio and Alves too are awesome. They just never stop bombing up and down that touchline.

Also think Busquets got hard done by RTE today. He played very good. Constantly pressing for the ball and he won it back on several occasions. Himself and Iniesta were definitely two positives for Spain. Iniesta may have been trying to force things too much though.

Cannot for the life of me figure out what Hulk is doing in that first choice X1. There is probably some reason but it's baffling me.

Gustavo is criminally underrated. Paulinho definitely looks a good choice for Spurs. (If they get him?) But this tournament was pretty much my first real time seeing him.

Cavani is quality. As with Hulk I'm not sure why Forlan was playing. He scored one great goal but the amount of times he made the wrong choice over the course of every Uruguayan game probably cost his team several strong chances that I'd say they'd have least converted one. He was very poor.

For all his quality I just can't bring myself to like Neymar. I'm hoping that like Biscuits who I initially hated I'll grow to like him as he is quite a talent. But then, that's down to Busquets cleaning up his feigning act a strong degree. If Neymar does that he won't be Neymar. I mean, his theatrics are signature stuff it's almost like he's a slinky or spring who when compressed against gets sprung high into the air into a series of aileron rolls.
For now he's another Di Maria only a lot better and a lot worse.

tl;dr
Really enjoyed this tournament.

Ardent

A few things that jump out at me after the final tonight (and the season just gone):
- Xavi is in decline
- Barcelona & Spain badly need another centre back as Pique is in poor form & possibly distracted off the pitch
- Arbeloa is rubbish
- Spain need a centre forward, Villa & Torres are not great

Optimalprimerib

What gave spain their success over the last few years was their style of football. No other team can do it and it is difficult to counteract. It saps the energy out of the opposition and wears them down.

Unfortunately it also saps the energy out of spain and since the first game, they gradually disimproved in each performance.

With this in mind plus the amount of quality teams hunting for their scalp, they will be exposed again in the world cup.

Cypher_sounds

Ardent wrote: »

A few things that jump out at me after the final tonight (and the season just gone):
- Xavi is in decline
- Barcelona & Spain badly need another centre back as Pique is in poor form & possibly distracted off the pitch
- Arbeloa is rubbish
- Spain need a centre forward, Villa & Torres are not great

Barca will probably buy cb Inigo Martinez from RS, he played a big part in Spain under 21 success and for RS last season.

Azpilicueta should be playing right back I cant understand why they persist with Arbeloa, i think Ancelottei will oust him from the Madrid starting 11 and play Daniel Carvajal at right back regularly who was voted as one of the best right back in the Bundesliga last season behind Phillip Lahm.

Llorentee should be starting for Spain in the WC IF he has a very good season for Juve, which i think is a probability. They should play Fabergas just behind him up front.

Jax Teller

Lennonist wrote: »

Spain would be a good lay, in my view.

Yeah they're all rides .

Cypher_sounds

Going by this picture alone its safe to say Neymar has had a good Confederations cup...

SlickRic

Charlie19 wrote: »

Spain are overrated.

messinkiapina

Spain are still a far superior team to Brazil imo. I wouldn't give Brazil a prayer of winning the world cup only that it's going to be played on home soil.

Spain were very poor last night, and not so great against Italy. I think they need to make a few changes and upset a few senior players in the process. They have an immense amount of talent on the bench and even in their youth teams that need to be considered.

GavRedKing

messinkiapina wrote: »

Spain are still a far superior team to Brazil imo. I wouldn't give Brazil a prayer of winning the world cup only that it's going to be played on home soil.

Spain were very poor last night, and not so great against Italy. I think they need to make a few changes and upset a few senior players in the process. They have an immense amount of talent on the bench and even in their youth teams that need to be considered.

If they start by dropping Arbeloa, Pique and Pedro they'll be doing well.

They need one of their 4 CFs (Villa, Llorente, Torres, Soldado) to have a big season and carry the form to the WC also.

Dont get me wrong, they're far from finished but they've a big 12 months to add some younger guys to squad or give the bench a chance.

SlickRic

in terms of the Spanish performance, while it was mainly because of Brazil's brilliant intensity and accuracy, there is definitely enough evidence to suggest that Spain were bollocks tired.

also, kudos to the ref. a superb performance in the main. he let the game flow, didn't pull it up for strong, fair challenges, and handled the players surrounding him at every opportunity really well; especially on those red card possibilities.

he wasn't interested in making a name for himself. good to see.

mitosis

Did I imagine it? What was with Ramos pulling his socks up into his shorts before taking the kick?

miralize

Del Bosque to blame for not rotating enough in the tournament? Not sure why Xavi had to play the full 120 against Italy.

SlickRic

miralize wrote: »

Del Bosque to blame for not rotating enough in the tournament? Not sure why Xavi had to play the full 120 against Italy.

partly IMO.

but it's also a case of the majority of those players not having a rest in pretty much 2 years.

and yes, in the case of Xavi, he really shouldn't have been used as much as he was.

Mr.Micro

miralize wrote: »

Del Bosque to blame for not rotating enough in the tournament? Not sure why Xavi had to play the full 120 against Italy.

There was no plan B, Spain played like Barca and had no reply to Brazil. Xavi and Iniesta are older now, and as you say the squad should have been rotated, even last night he should have played others. Very disappointed with Spain. The Ramos penalty said it all.

GavRedKing

That penalty was pretty poor alright, the way he went to get the ball made it seem like he was a certainty but why did they leave a guy who went up 4th or 5th in the shootout up to take a peno that could have got them back in the game?

SlickRic

it has little to do with plan B.

"plan B" is a bit of a myth.

they had no intensity to their play compared to the Brazilians, that was the issue.

McGrath5

Will FIFA change the scheduling of the fixtures for next years tournament?

It seems the team who plays the first of the quarter or semi final has unfair advantage going into the next game, especially if the opposing side has had a full 120 minutes of football and 1 days less rest.

miralize

McGrath5 wrote: »

Will FIFA change the scheduling of the fixtures for next years tournament?

It seems the team who plays the first of the quarter or semi final has unfair advantage going into the next game, especially if the opposing side has had a full 120 minutes of football and 1 days less rest.

Probably not.

astonaidan

For those of you complaining about Pique, If I was going out with Shakira I wouldnt have much energy either

carlop

GavRedKing wrote: »

That penalty was pretty poor alright, the way he went to get the ball made it seem like he was a certainty but why did they leave a guy who went up 4th or 5th in the shootout up to take a peno that could have got them back in the game?

There was a similar incident in the first half when he took a free kick from 35 yards out and had a shot at goal. I can never remember Ramos banging in a free kick so why was he allowed take it?

It hints at a possible lack of discipline and organisation within the squad.

G.K.

Disagree about dropping Pedro, but the others, yes.

ArmaniJeanss

McGrath5 wrote: »

Will FIFA change the scheduling of the fixtures for next years tournament?

It seems the team who plays the first of the quarter or semi final has unfair advantage going into the next game, especially if the opposing side has had a full 120 minutes of football and 1 days less rest.

Theres an extra days gap between the second semi final and the final next year (compared to the Confed Cup). First semi still has a day extra obv but less of an issue.

Also the WC is itself more spaced out, the finalists will play 7 games in 28-31 days, as opposed to the 5 games in 14 days that some were faced with here.

Mr.Micro

carlop wrote: »

There was a similar incident in the first half when he took a free kick from 35 yards out and had a shot at goal. I can never remember Ramos banging in a free kick so why was he allowed take it?

It hints at a possible lack of discipline and organisation within the squad.

An awful lot of egos there I would say.

astonaidan

Mr.Micro wrote: »

An awful lot of egos there I would say.

Correct me if Im wrong, but has Sergio ever missed a penalty before last night.
And the position you take the penalty in the shoot out has no bearing, Pirlo took the fifth kick for Italy

GavRedKing

astonaidan wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong, but has Sergio ever missed a penalty before last night.
And the position you take the penalty in the shoot out has no bearing, Pirlo took the fifth kick for Italy

Has he not balloned 2 for Real Madrid in recent years in shootouts?

dfx-

carlop wrote: »

There was a similar incident in the first half when he took a free kick from 35 yards out and had a shot at goal. I can never remember Ramos banging in a free kick so why was he allowed take it?

It hints at a possible lack of discipline and organisation within the squad.

He has scored two pressure penalties in two successive semi finals now. I had confidence in him as much as I had in Pedro to finsh the one-on-one in the first half.

astonaidan

GavRedKing wrote: »

Has he not balloned 2 for Real Madrid in recent years in shootouts?

I stand corrected, he missed one in Bayern game, I still think hes usually a handy taker and never missed one in spains shoot outs

dundalkfc10

What absolute nonsense some people talk.

Ramos has scored many penalties over the years, he missed, it happnes get over it.

Ive seen Messi, Ronaldo all miss penalties

Turtwig

Thought Ramos penalty was unlucky. It just skimmed to the left of the post. It was still a far more convincing penalty than the Uruguayans in their shoot out.

Omackeral

What does everyone think of Torres getting the golden boot ahead of Fred due to 'less minutes on the pitch'? They were tied on goals scored and assists.

dundalkfc10

Omackeral wrote: »

What does everyone think of Torres getting the golden boot ahead of Fred due to 'less minutes on the pitch'? They were tied on goals scored and assists.

Nothing really, He won fair and square (just like he did at Euro 2012)

Omackeral

I'm not disputing he deserves it. He scored the most goals, well him and Fred did. And I know it comes down to assists after goals scored to determine a winner, which is understandable. I just find it an odd tie breaker that less minutes on the pitch decides it overall!

colly_06

All I could think of was this when I saw Ramos stepping up

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Omackeral wrote: »

What does everyone think of Torres getting the golden boot ahead of Fred due to 'less minutes on the pitch'? They were tied on goals scored and assists.

That's the way it's normally done, and it's the fair way of doing it. It's only because Torres scored 4 against Tahiti that people are complaining, which is fair enough, but you can't expect FIFA to turn around and say, Hang on there a sec Fernando, Tahiti are a bit shíte so we're gonna give your award to Fred instead.

Omackeral

Again, not disputing his goals meant less. You can only beat what's in front of you. Just don't get that less mins on the pitch overall is a tie breaker. More minutes on the pitch to me is a harder slog!

dundalkfc10

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm not disputing he deserves it. He scored the most goals, well him and Fred did. And I know it comes down to assists after goals scored to determine a winner, which is understandable. I just find it an odd tie breaker that less minutes on the pitch decides it overall!

Its harder to score goals with less minutes on the pitch so what other way could they do it

roanoke

% of your teams total goals might be a fairer tie breaker? (Fred 35% , Torres 33%). Failing that maybe goals beyond the group stages?

Though whatever way you cut it there's probably no way to satisfy everyone.

Ulysses Gaze

dfx- wrote: »

Two things. Spain have lost one game in 28/29, what basis is there for such certainty?

And why the hell are there so many fans/support of Germany on this forum?

I agree on the German love thing here in this forum.

If Jupp Heynckes was the Manager of Germany I'd say they would have a great chance of reaching the final in 2014. I'm not sold on Jogi Loew as their manager though. Don't think he is in the VDB, Scolari, Tabarez or Prandelli class of Manager needed to win a tournament.

Skylinehead

Brazilian paper ratings for the match :pac:

carlop

dfx- wrote: »

He has scored two pressure penalties in two successive semi finals now. I had confidence in him as much as I had in Pedro to finsh the one-on-one in the first half.

He scored them in shoot-outs, and they were impressive penalties, but surely the team should have had a designated penalty taker with a bit more pedigree taking them, like Xavi for example.

Turtwig

Dafuq did Hulk get 10?:pac:

GTR63

Thought the spanish players were more overrated then the brasilians in them ratings tbh.

Corholio

I think the rankings of teams the players scored against should come into it more than minutes etc. The opposition won't change, where there could be a 100 different reasons for a player not playing minutes on a pitch.

sReq | uTeK

Andersonwow will no be supporting Brazil for the 2014 world cup.

Smithwicks Man

Ramos took a penalty before for Madrid, while they were 2-0 up against Bilbao, with Ronaldo on the pitch who said afterwards "Sergio is my friend and I did not want to argue with him over a penalty"

Mourinho was visibly annoyed in the stand and was said to be furious that Ramos took the penalty.

I've definitely seen him miss 3 now and I'd bet my life he's missed more.

Spain should have a better penalty taker than Ramos and I'm sure Xavi/Iniesta are. I'd even have more faith in Jordi Alba tbh