Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

redtelephone

For anyone interested there is an online petition calling on the Kilkenny Borough Council and Kilkenny County Council to prioritise the completion of the northern section of the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme. The petition is calling for completion the existing Ring Road and to stop the potential damage which would split the Medieval City in two.

Petition is here:

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/kilkenny-borough-council-prioritise-completion-of-kilkenny-ring-road-over-the-central-access-scheme?share_id=ANgbxxCdMn&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

hi5

I agree with this.
Access to the Freshford road is the major problem, both from coming over Greensbridge on one side of town and along by Kennyswell/Ballycallan road on the other side of town (as seen in the picture).
The finished ring road would make a huge difference to the traffic that side of town and negate the need for the inner relief road.

Threadhead

The fact that they are not prepared to finish the ring road and instead invest millions into an utterly superfluous, city dissecting road is just madness. The long term good of the city is being forsaken for what, a short cut that isn't even that efficient?

I just can't see the benefit of this ahead of finishing the ring road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHj5Hywz888

Captain Havoc

Yep, either way you have to build a bridge, although I understand the ring road bridge would need to be bigger. Building the central access scheme is just going to bring cars into town, also the position of the traffic lights at both sides of the Esso garage is going to cause further problems with pedestrians pushing the buttons at peak times. Traffic lights are the work of the devil and should be replaced with roundabouts (if we put enough roundabouts in, people will learn how to use them) and zebra crossings (there are few things more annoying than a red on a pedestrian crossing with nobody around). The extra traffic trying to join the inner relief road will only put pressure on the existing roads.

Even a bridge from Castlecomer Rd to Freshford road would ease a lot of the traffic as you'd have an extra bridge, people could go out the Freshford road and join the ring road, which would ease the pressure on the more central roads. I know with the access scheme you'd still have an extra bridge but all it's doing is making Greensbridge redundant. You could also put a HGV ban in the city so trucks would have to go all the way around from the Callan Rd. to the Freshford road, there would need to be special exemptions made for the likes of Grasslands to get in and out.

Max Powers

interesting stuff lads, im not even from KK, down the road in Waterford. Any maps of what is proposed? surely they would have to knock loads of buildings to built a new road straight thru or are they just tarting it up a bit?

Cabaal

Max Powers wrote: »

interesting stuff lads, im not even from KK, down the road in Waterford. Any maps of what is proposed? surely they would have to knock loads of buildings to built a new road straight thru or are they just tarting it up a bit?

My understanding is they'd have to knock a load of stuff, I don't have any maps

But here's a simulation of the job....think this is the same job anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHj5Hywz888

S28382

Imagine the traffic down that way during the mornings especially if coming from the garda barracks side.

hi5

Here's a map,

http://www.kilkennycity.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/Figure%209.1.pdf

The inner relief road will swing in between the front of the hospice and the rear of the boot factory.
Also the inner relief road will bypass along the back of Kennyswell continuing to bisect the Tullaroan road on to the freshford road with a link road off this to the bull ring and on to the new bridge.

I'd still prefer to see the Ring Rd extended instead.

kk23

this was originally proposed in 1979 , might have been a goer then but an inner "relief" road is as out of date, whats needed is an extension to the existing ring road, I see no sense for this waster of funds. senseless.

road_high

kk23 wrote: »

this was originally proposed in 1979 , might have been a goer then but an inner "relief" road is as out of date, whats needed is an extension to the existing ring road, I see no sense for this waster of funds. senseless.

Absolutely. The Council seems hellbent on it though. Funds would be far better spent on the ring road completion indeed.

kk23

road_high wrote: »

Absolutely. The Council seems hellbent on it though. Funds would be far better spent on the ring road completion indeed.

why would they be so determined to proceed with this? are they out of touch with reality? people? value for money? which or what is the reason for the intransigence?
whatever the reason , its showtime by the looks of things

Threadhead

I just can't fathom why this is still going ahead.

Kilkenny Archaeology is asserting that the houses on Vicar Street that are due to be demolished to make way for the roads have elements of medieval houses, cellars and towers under the buildings and should be properly excavated and protected. On the other hand, Joe Crockett, the county manager claimed on RTÉ Radio that 'they are of no architectural value, no archaeological value, they're not listed buildings, they're not of heritage value.' Despite one of the houses actually being a protected building.

So, as kk23 asked, why are they so hellbent on this road? What purpose will it serve beyond serving a shopping site that is no longer going ahead?

redtelephone

It seems to me that the Borough Council have always been happy to use any excuse to dismantle the medieval fabric of Kilkenny. Much has been lost since the 1970s due to "development". I'm thinking of things like the "Arcade" in High St, the fast food outlet right opposite the Tholsel, Market Cross S.C., the Ormond St car park, the eyesore of those tall tanks at the brewery (soon to be removed hopefully), and more lately the glass and steel box at the back of the Courthouse. Is it any surprise that they want to cut off the Medieval Mile before its end?

Cabaal

Kilkenny gets a mention on thejournal.ie

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-proposed-road-though-kilkenny-shows-the-lack-of-value-placed-on-heritage-944954-Jun2013/

Building a central access road in the heart of historic Kilkenny while simultaneously trying to encourage tourism based on the city’s architectural heritage makes no sense, writes Geni Murphy.

road_high

I know they have spent a fortune on planning etc but once this gets underway there is no going back. Shame they couldn't just prioritise the ring road and remove traffic from town intead.

Cabaal

road_high wrote: »

I know they have spent a fortune on planning etc but once this gets underway there is no going back. Shame they couldn't just prioritise the ring road and remove traffic from town intead.

Out and out protects could still stop it if it gets underway, so never say nothing can stop it.

If the place gets together including business then it could still be stopped,

mahamageehad

I've signed as well now. It's the first I've heard of it but sure it's complete madness!

Threadhead

This is going to go ahead and we will spend years ruing the fact that we didn't do more. Never before has such a massive act of sanctioned destruction happened to our city. It's just unfathomable that it's happening.

10 million spent on dividing the city in half for a road that genuinely serves no purpose anymore based on plans originated 30 years ago for an entirely different purpose. Why they just can't finish the ring road is beyond me.

nootroc

Talking Heads building a Road to Nowhere

alz007

I have to say that I am one of the few that is not in favour of the alternative to this scheme and will not be signing this petition, but I guess for selfish reasons. If the completion of the Ring Road was implemented, the beautiful area where I grew up and lived all my life would be right in the firing line. Although I have never seen proposed plans for where the route of this road would go, maps and common sense (if they indeed have that) would suggest that my neighbours and I would be affected. Has there ever been a proposed route made public for this ring road completion??

However, I freely admit that this Central Access Scheme project is in no way good for the character of Kilkenny and it does not seem the logical choice to have a higher volume of traffic coming through the heart of the city like that. In saying that, it is probably way too late to stop this, as it seems the wheels are well in motion. I will be in the vast minority that will breathe a sigh of relief when this thing finally goes ahead, as no amount of compensation money would be enough to give up my home or else have a noisey busy road put beside me. Call me a mé feiner all you want, but that is just the way it is.

rayc

I wonder does the councils urgency to push on with this have anything to do with some of the proposed uses of the Smithwicks brewery site, specifically the idea of using it as a campus for part of the new Tech University? It would pull a lot more traffic into town and might making getting planning permission difficult for the same reason as it was for the mart site.

S28382

I dont understand how this is going to split Kilkenny city its down in the Irishtown area which is at the end of the town, im not saying its right thats its happening but at least its progressive...they are looking for a solution. Traffic in Kilkenny is insane sometimes and there needs to be something done about it and extending the ring road is not going to solve the traffic problem in the town itself.

blockic

S28382 wrote: »

Traffic in Kilkenny is insane sometimes and there needs to be something done about it and extending the ring road is not going to solve the traffic problem in the town itself.

In comparison to the likes of Dublin and Cork, Kilkenny traffic is not insane from my experience.

S28382

blockic wrote: »

In comparison to the likes of Dublin and Cork, Kilkenny traffic is not insane from my experience.

Well yeah of course not because they are bigger cities with more traffic where as Kilkenny is a small town with John st traffic which usually is a pain in the ass.

1984baby

S28382 wrote: »

Well yeah of course not because they are bigger cities with more traffic where as Kilkenny is a small town with John st traffic which usually is a pain in the ass.

The council have made the traffic worse in Kilkenny by changing numerous junctions and light sequences.
1. Coming from the Castle road there was 3 lanes (one to turn left to Patrick St, one to go straight up High St, one to turn right to Rose Inn St) - now there's only 1 lane.
2. Coming from Rose Inn Street they got rid of the left turn lane onto Castle Road
3. They have removed the left filter lane coming from Patrick St going to High St.
4. Driving in the Dublin Road, they reduced the lanes to 2 at the traffic lights. By getting rid of the left turn only lane, they've caused long tailbacks.
5. The lights at the top of John St, they removed the left filter lane turning into Johns Green.

There is probably loads more that I've forgotten. But all of the changes above, coupled with new traffic light sequences have made traffic far worse over the years.

randylonghorn

S28382 wrote: »

I dont understand how this is going to split Kilkenny city its down in the Irishtown area which is at the end of the town ...

Certainly, in terms of the historic areas of the city (and therefore the tourist attractions), it creates a (far bigger than existing) divide between the environs of St. Canice's and the Hightown area.

How does the CAS gel with the "medieval mile" project for example? ... it cuts straight across it!

The Minister for the Environment, Community & Local Government, Mr Phil Hogan T.D, today (Tuesday October 30th 2012) announced an ambitious €5.5 million investment in a new “Medieval Mile” tourism project for Kilkenny.

The “Medieval Mile” will stretch from Kilkenny Castle to St Canice’s Cathedral and will position the historic city as a “must see” destination for overseas visitors to Ireland.

And the same people who are smiling in the photograph at the top of that article are backing the CAS? Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't get it.

Nor tbh can I even see the CAS doing wonders for traffic problems in Kilkenny; if it really was going to solve everything, then maybe it would be worth it, but does anyone genuinely believe it will?

I know completing the Ring Road would probably cost more, but it would be a far more viable long-term solution imo.

S28382

1984baby wrote: »

The council have made the traffic worse in Kilkenny by changing numerous junctions and light sequences.
1. Coming from the Castle road there was 3 lanes (one to turn left to Patrick St, one to go straight up High St, one to turn right to Rose Inn St) - now there's only 1 lane.
2. Coming from Rose Inn Street they got rid of the left turn lane onto Castle Road
3. They have removed the left filter lane coming from Patrick St going to High St.
4. Driving in the Dublin Road, they reduced the lanes to 2 at the traffic lights. By getting rid of the left turn only lane, they've caused long tailbacks.
5. The lights at the top of John St, they removed the left filter lane turning into Johns Green.

There is probably loads more that I've forgotten. But all of the changes above, coupled with new traffic light sequences have made traffic far worse over the years.

No matter what they do up that end of town it will be a pain in the ass getting through it because its so small and compact up there.

Cars parking by the lights at the bottom of the parade is a nuiscance as along with the lights taking forever cars reversing from the spaces hold traffic up so it would be a good start to get rid of them spaces,

Cars parking in high st blocking the road is a nuiscance,

Driving down high st can be dangerous as people just seem to dart across the road from all angles,

Maybe pedestrianise high st keep all traffic from going up high st and the central access scheme might be warranted then.

S28382

randylonghorn wrote: »

Certainly, in terms of the historic areas of the city (and therefore the tourist attractions), it creates a (far bigger than existing) divide between the environs of St. Canice's and the Hightown area.

How does the CAS gel with the "medieval mile" project for example? ... it cuts straight across it!



And the same people who are smiling in the photograph at the top of that article are backing the CAS? Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't get it.

Nor tbh can I even see the CAS doing wonders for traffic problems in Kilkenny; if it really was going to solve everything, then maybe it would be worth it, but does anyone genuinely believe it will?

I know completing the Ring Road would probably cost more, but it would be a far more viable long-term solution imo.

The completion of the ring road seems its the best thing to do i just dont see why this CAS is a detremental thing to KK. Im sure they have a long term vision regarding the CAS hence the reason why they seem to adament on going ahead with it.

randylonghorn

S28382 wrote: »

The completion of the ring road seems its the best thing to do i just dont see why this CAS is a detremental thing to KK.

Historic tourism is of major benefit to the economy of Kilkenny, and in my opinion has the potential to be far more so in the future with good planning and management.

How does increasing traffic density significantly on a street which already splits the historic areas of the city benefit that?

I'd be far more inclined to go looking for ways to *decrease* traffic density in that area to be honest.

S28382 wrote: »

Im sure they have a long term vision regarding the CAS hence the reason why they seem to adament on going ahead with it.

They may have a vision, but if you're confident that it's the right one, you have a lot more faith in local authorities in terms of long-term planning than I do!

And my cynicism is based on looking around me not only in Kilkenny but in most of the cities and towns in Ireland ...

S28382

randylonghorn wrote: »

Historic tourism is of major benefit to the economy of Kilkenny, and in my opinion has the potential to be far more so in the future with good planning and management.

How does increasing traffic density significantly on a street which already splits the historic areas of the city benefit that?

I'd be far more inclined to go looking for ways to *decrease* traffic density in that area to be honest.

They may have a vision, but if you're confident that it's the right one, you have a lot more faith in local authorities in terms of long-term planning than I do!

And my cynicism is based on looking around me not only in Kilkenny but in most of the cities and towns in Ireland ...

The CAS will run through Irishtown so if they pedestrianise hight st then there will be no traffic cutting through that part of town which is a good thing,

Haha yeah my faith might be in the wrong place altho in fairness KK county council arent that bad.....im a blow in maybe my judgement is arseways.:)

redtelephone

S28382 wrote: »

Haha yeah my faith might be in the wrong place altho in fairness KK county council arent that bad.....im a blow in maybe my judgement is arseways.:)

Just one example, admittedly an old one but a good one :

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/ashton-to-take-high-court-action-1-2154979