Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

redtelephone

dathi wrote: »

is that not the section that board pleanala overturned stating that it was premature and impacted on the butts

That's right, AFAIK all they're allowed to build now is the bridge and the two new sections of road leading up to it with some tidying up on Dean St. How that is going to improve traffic flow is a mystery to me.

hi5

redtelephone wrote: »

That's right, AFAIK all they're allowed to build now is the bridge and the two new sections of road leading up to it with some tidying up on Dean St. How that is going to improve traffic flow is a mystery to me.

Completely pointless so.
It surely would be cheaper to extend the ring road from the Castlecomer roundabout on the Ring Rd to the Freshford Rd and build the bridge there, its only a few Kilometres of road.
The rest of the Ring Rd could then be built as funds allowed

By Google maps it looks to be just over 1 Kilometre of new road and a bridge and very little in the way of obstructions....

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6751018,-7.2604288,15z

Mankbag

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Incorrect, there will be a road going from the Circular Road to the waterbarracks.

Not what's needed. Not in the least. The idea should be to take the HGVs out of town altogether, not have them trundling down the Circular Road and the Waterbarracks. A completed ring road would achieve precisely that. The CAS wouldn't.

linny

finally some good news
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/cas-bridge-contractor-on-site-this-week-1-6148779

randylonghorn

Some good news in *your* eyes, Linny.

Grats

linny wrote: »

finally some good news
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/cas-bridge-contractor-on-site-this-week-1-6148779

Absolutely. Looking forward to this bridge finally getting started.

kikel

Really saddened at this news. I think the long term effects of this will be bad for Kilkenny.

What really annoys me about this is the way Mr. Crocket pushed this through before the election and his retirement. He knew damn well it was an election issue. There is just something not right about the way he done it in my opinion.

Cabaal

Funny how the bridge looks like it was simply taken from the M9, they clearly put alot of work into the design aspect of it.



Here's how this ugly bit of concrete will look in the daytime



How on one end of the scale they can get things right by spending money on the castle, doing the medival mile and such things as marking where the old city walls used to be. But on the other end of the scale they can get things so so wrong such as transplanting a motorway fly over bridge right into the center of the city is beyond me.

Looks like they just copied this bog standard design from the m9,

Even if the CAS was a good idea (its not) then this bridge is just lazy and completely out of keeping with what the city and how it is advertised. Its extremely worrying that anyone could be ok with this.

Grats

Mr Crockett will be missed big time if we are to believe some posters. They would lead us to believe that he was solely responsible for the CAS project. Under the circumstances he is some man for one man! I, and many like me, have been hoodwinked into believing that many more people, organisations, government departments, Councillors, experts, etc were involved in this project and not just Joe Crockett! Furthermore it was my understanding that the Bridge was under consideration long before Mr Crockett appeared on the scene. Wasn't aware he was already working on the project while working in another county!

Mr. Crockett, you're influence and ingenuity will be badly missed - please come back!

kikel

It was Mr Crockett who signed off on CAS on behalf of the council. So yeah, I suppose the book should of stopped with him. But unfortunately now that he has stepped down it is Mr Mulholland who has to answer the questions. Typical public sector attitude to pass the blame to others.

Mr Crockett could of stopped this project if he wished and followed other cities in removing traffic from our city centres.

It is very susspicious the way he pushed this through and then retired. Especially since he knew it was an election issue.

randylonghorn

Grats wrote: »

Mr. Crockett, you're influence and ingenuity will be badly missed - please come back!

What ingenuity?!

"Hey lads, the council has been sporadically talking about this CAS idea for 30 years, let's do it! I want a monument to me!!" ?? :pac:

kikel wrote: »

It is very susspicious the way he pushed this through and then retired. Especially since he knew it was an election issue.

In fairness to Crockett, I think you're being a bit paranoid there.

I'm very dubious about the value of CAS, and I agree with you that if that's what the bridge is going to look like it's crap for its location (any more than the footbridge looks fairly crap, and that actually is a good idea in and of itself!)

I do kinda believe that Crockett himself thinks it's a good idea though, and sees it as a monument to his time as county manager. I'd say there's a bit of ego there all right, but I'd be pretty skeptical that it's anything more sinister than that tbh.

linny

we will here all the conspiracy theories now in the next week or so, sooner this bridge is built the better for everyone especially the people living on the east side of the city, and anyone traveling to the hospital

kikel

I wouldn't think I'm being paranoid at all. He was adamant that it goes through. The reports he commissioned were very poor. When he was found out on that one he made a decision to go ahead with this CAS leaving the gable wall still standing. To continue with the CAS when their is still questions over Vicker street is madness. He should of postponed this decision if he was retiring. He knew damn well it was an election issue. Why couldn't we wait a few weeks until after the election. He has now put the council in a very serious position. If their is any more objections to the CAS and the bridge is not built the council could be sued by the contractor that is moving on site today.

redtelephone

linny wrote: »

we will here all the conspiracy theories now in the next week or so, sooner this bridge is built the better for everyone especially the people living on the east side of the city, and anyone traveling to the hospital

Ridiculous comment. As someone living east of Kilkenny who travels to the hospital regularly, the CAS is no help to me. I'd much prefer the Ring Road was completed. This new CAS bridge will force me even closer to the centre of town. Completing the Ring Road would take ALL hospital traffic from the east AWAY from the centre of town. But hey, who gives a sh*t about people like me.

Grats

linny wrote: »

we will here all the conspiracy theories now in the next week or so, sooner this bridge is built the better for everyone especially the people living on the east side of the city, and anyone traveling to the hospital

Bang on. The new bridge will be a god send for school goers also as they will have a choice of using the old Greensbridge which will become pedestrianised or the new bridge built for modern needs. Roll on.

kikel

Hey Grats,

What are your opinions on the fact so many other cities trying to remove cars and trucks from cities and Kilkenny bringing more cars and trucks into the city. Do you think this is a a good idea? Pleas let me why you think this is a good idea.

Cabaal

Grats wrote: »

as they will have a choice of using the old Greensbridge which will become pedestrianised .

Either you have a source for this claim or you're making it up, which is it?

Link to source that confirms your claim?

You honestly think Kilkenny will have two pedestrian bridges and that the council will just cut off residents and business by greens Bridge by doing such a thing?

Leeds me to believe your claim is totally made up,

Threadhead

I sure can't wait to get to that derelict mart site a lot quicker.

bloopy

Threadhead wrote: »

I sure can't wait to get to that derelict mart site a lot quicker.

Who actually owns the mart site, cause it just got a lot more viable now that the connection for both ends of the ring road will be flowing right past it.
Are we going to get another shopping center?

Edit: Was also wondering - will there not have to be a series of traffic lights (pedestrian or otherwise) for quite a few sections of this road on the route it is taking. How will this affect travel times as opposed to travel times on a completed ring road?

Absolute Zero

Knock the whole thing down and get the CAS scheme up as soon as possible, time to drive the hippies out. Its called PROGRESS.

catbear

Absolute Zero wrote: »

Knock the whole thing down and get the CAS scheme up as soon as possible, time to drive the hippies out. Its called PROGRESS.

The ballymun flats were called PROGRESS when they went up.

Cabaal

Absolute Zero wrote: »

Knock the whole thing down and get the CAS scheme up as soon as possible, time to drive the hippies out. Its called PROGRESS.

- Wood quay was seen as "progress",
- Building the ESB offices in Dublin was seen as "progress"

What you're proposing is not progress, its short sighted and doesn't takes into account the increase traffic that such a scheme will bring into the city and completely ignores the need for the ring road to be completed.

randylonghorn

Absolute Zero wrote: »

Knock the whole thing down and get the CAS scheme up as soon as possible, time to drive the hippies out. Its called PROGRESS.

Progress is good.

It implies that you're actually progressing and improving things though.

Just because something is new doesn't mean it's progressive.

That's a common blindspot in Irish thinking (and probably elsewhere as well).

It's even more common than labelling everyone you don't agree with as "hippies" and other derogatory terms.

And it's equally as facile.

here's something I've slowly figured out in my lifetime: if you have to win your argument by labelling and insulting people, you are unlikely to have a valid argument to begin with!

Cabaal

bloopy wrote: »

Edit: Was also wondering - will there not have to be a series of traffic lights (pedestrian or otherwise) for quite a few sections of this road on the route it is taking.How will this affect travel times as opposed to travel times on a completed ring road?

if you watch a video showing the road that the council made I actually count 5 sets of lights and that doesn't count any lights that exist on the other side of the new bridge.

So 5 sets of lights versus no sets on the ring road. They will def impact travel times!
Thats also assuming nobody illegal parks or double parks like they do on alot of that road at the moment

miece16

catbear wrote: »

The ballymun flats were called PROGRESS when they went up.

ballymun flats was a different time and a different ireland

they were perfect for the time

catbear

miece16 wrote: »

ballymun flats was a different time and a different ireland

they were perfect for the time

Incorrect. The french project on which ballymun was based was torn down as a social housing failure as ballymun was being built. Britain abandoned the model too as it too easily led to social isolation.

The ballymun regeneration design as is was an option as that time, a lot of non tower block developments happened elsewhere in Dublin to house those displaced from the condemned tenements and while experienced social problems they did not fail as completely as the towers.

Also speaking of new things being mistaken for progress just think of the estimated 300,000 excess housing units for a population of 4million! Then think of tax hikes to cover the debt for these empties, is that progress?

Cabaal

miece16 wrote: »

ballymun flats was a different time and a different ireland

Only with hindsight can you claim this now

But at the time they were seen as progress,

Again as was woodquay and as was the ESB offices...those ESB offices replaced many old buildings that would have needed alot of money to replace them....least that was the excuse at the time. Yet both of these projects were one of the worse decisions made by Dublin CC.

kikel

kikel

Absolute Zero wrote: »

Knock the whole thing down and get the CAS scheme up as soon as possible, time to drive the hippies out. Its called PROGRESS.

Hi Absolute,

Can you please clarify how you think this is progress?

kikel

catbear wrote: »

The ballymun flats were called PROGRESS when they went up.

This is a very enlightening comment. Progress in the right direction can be summed after the fact.

A few mistakes made in the past with regard to development of cities: All these were seen as progress in the past only for the decisions to be reversed.

• Removal of trams from Dublin City.
• Giving cars a priority in city centres.

A few examples of progress to the benefit of cities. These were good decisions. Decisions you'll never see been reversed.

• Making Grafton Street Pedestrian only.
• Dublin bike scheme
• reintroduction of the Luas as a mode of transport.
• removal of lorries from Dublin city centre.