Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

kikel

linny wrote: »

I will never understand this protest. Why did they not object at the planning stage. Driving past the protest and looking at the protesters and I know some of them they are type of people that love to give out about anything. Whether it's new bridge or cinema they just hate change even if it for thr better of all in Kilkenny. All 83000 in the county

People don't hate change, they are looking for sustainable change. Change where all can benefit. Look at CArlow and the Fairgreen shopping centre did not lead to sustainable change as Tullow street is now in bad way.

kikel

miece16 wrote: »

not some bloody horses that noone wants. get a tesco in and create some jobs. everybody wins

You think Tescos lead to jobs? What about the long term effect of this on a town\city. Does it lead to jobs long term is the question. Have a look at this video about the effect a tesco will have on a town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAPyUL44pGE

I' ll for progress and would love to see more development in Kilkenny but jobs via a tescos is very short sighted.

mickydoomsux

kikel wrote: »

People don't hate change, they are looking for sustainable change. Change where all can benefit. Look at CArlow and the Fairgreen shopping centre did not lead to sustainable change as Tullow street is now in bad way.

Carlow was a kip long before the Fairgreen was built.

linny

That's a mad statement bridge = Tesco. In reality this bridge = jobs when both sites on either side of the river are connect and developed. And before anyone says it bridges connect not devide

Bowlardo

linny wrote: »

That's a mad statement bridge = Tesco. In reality this bridge = jobs when both sites on either side of the river are connect and developed. And before anyone says it bridges connect not devide

I think everyone can smell a tesco coming down the tracks in either the old mart site or the brewery site.
So when you come off the ring road you are met with a mcdonald then a halting site followed then by Tesco.....
sounds like every other town in the UK and ireland

Threadhead

linny wrote: »

That's a mad statement bridge = Tesco. In reality this bridge = jobs when both sites on either side of the river are connect and developed. And before anyone says it bridges connect not devide

Would a bridge that connects the ring road not do the exact same thing? It's not that people don't want a new bridge, people want the right new bridge. They want the one that eases traffic in town, not the one that encourages traffic. People want the bridge that will create a more rounded city, create jobs, make transport easier and make our city more accessible to tourists.

That bridge is one that should go from the Freshford Road to the Comer road, not one that bulldozes through a park, drags HGV's into the city centre, destroys one of our best scenic city views, bisects Michael Street and Wolfe Tone street and leads to a currently derelict site.

Cabaal

miece16 wrote: »

not some bloody horses that noone wants. get a tesco in and create some jobs. everybody wins

Everybody wins? Really?
Tell that to the countless employers who will either close up shop, lay off employees or be down profit.

That's a funny version of everybody winning

buiscuit2168

How is it going to cut the city in half. It will go through Vicar st = run down. The mart= vacant.

How are employers going to be affected. I agree it is unsightly but everyone says it will divide the city in two creating unemployment. How?

Threadhead

Breaking news via the Kilkenny People is that the new updated proposal is for the houses to remain intact at Vicar Street and the bridge spur will only go into the Brewery Site.

If anyone had any doubt that the sole existence of this scheme is to make the mart site more lucrative, you have it there. An improvement but a ridiculous one. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

randylonghorn

linny wrote: »

I will never understand this protest. Why did they not object at the planning stage. Driving past the protest and looking at the protesters and I know some of them they are type of people that love to give out about anything. Whether it's new bridge or cinema they just hate change even if it for thr better of all in Kilkenny. All 83000 in the county

Linny, I have to admire the force of your convictions, even if I have yet to see a shred of evidence for them.

All 83,000 in the county will benefit from this bridge? Really?

Would it not be far more likely that they would benefit from the completion of the Ring Road?

And I love your offhand way of dismissing the protesters anonymously on the internet, it's very easy that way isn't it? I don't know all the protesters, or even most, so unlike you I'm not going to make any broad sweeping statements, but I know a couple of those involved in this issue, and far from being the type of people "who love to give out about anything" they are people who love their city dearly and want the best for it, and demonstrate that in their everyday lives by their voluntary commitment in a wide range of areas.

miece16 wrote: »

get a tesco in and create some jobs. everybody wins

Why do people think that all you have to do is bring in more retail, and you will create jobs / boost the economy?

There are a limited number of people who will come to Kilkenny to buy their groceries, no matter how much choice you provide. If Tesco comes in and does well, it will provide jobs, sure; and other places will be hit and will shed jobs or close.

There is quite a bit of retail space running idle in Kilkenny at the moment, and certainly walking around McDonagh Junction you would wonder how some of the existing businesses there are even surviving, given the footfall ... and yet the cry goes up "more retail space will solve everything"?

It reminds me a bit of the Diseased Celtic Kitten cry of "more houses will keep our economy going (doesn't matter where they're built)". Yeah, coz you can export houses! And if you have enough retail / grocery choice in Kilkenny, people will start travelling weekly from Dublin to buy their groceries?!! Limited market => if you have more players, they each get a smaller share. If one player does well, others suffer, tighten their belts and implement cutbacks ... or close. And it's usually the smallest players who are forced out.

I'm not anti-Tescos btw, and I do believe that the consumer (rightly) benefits from a decent level of choice; I'm simply pointing out basic economics.

lovetheanimals wrote: »

I agree it is unsightly but everyone says it will divide the city in two creating unemployment. How?

I'm not sure if anyone on that thread said anything that simplistic tbh (though there is some confusion entering the discussions due to side arguments about the mart site / Tescos / etc).

What has been pointed out again and again is that it's dragging more (mostly unnecessary if the Ring Road was prioritised) traffic into the city centre, and (for example) cutting across the Medieval Mile heritage tourist project which is ironically being backed by the Co. Council at the same time, and that heritage tourism is already a major player in the city's economy / employment, and has the potential to be a much bigger contributor and one which is sustainable long-term with proper planning and support.

buiscuit2168

Threadhead wrote: »

Breaking news via the Kilkenny People is that the new updated proposal is for the houses to remain intact at Vicar Street and the bridge spur will only go into the Brewery Site.

If anyone had any doubt that the sole existence of this scheme is to make the mart site more lucrative, you have it there. An improvement but a ridiculous one. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

So does this mean the traffic will flow into the little street in irish town preventing people from going into the high street?

Threadhead

Nope, if this is in fact what happens, it will change nothing in that area for now, it will just be the same amount of traffic. The road and bridge would only go from the Mart to the Brewery at the back of Vicar Street.

snowdaisy

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Well there must have been several objections by various parties to this bridge I'd have thought hence all the delays?

The building of this large bridge in no way is comparable to a cinema either by the way. Just things that you yourself have an interest in.

Quote: linny
I will never understand this protest. Why did they not object at the planning stage. Driving past the protest and looking at the protesters and I know some of them they are type of people that love to give out about anything. Whether it's new bridge or cinema they just hate change even if it for thr better of all in Kilkenny. All 83000 in the county.

There were objections from the early stages from a number of groups and individuals through all the proper channels, especially formal submissions to the oral hearing in 2008. These lead to some parts of the overall scheme being ruled out, others redesigned etc. The whole scheme has unrealistic traffic flow predictions since 2008 and ive yet to hear of any new traffic study comissioned for this revised version, or just the bridge on its own . if anyone has links theyd be appreciated.

femur61

Anti-CAS have been busy putting/dropping anti-CAS signs around the city

zootroid

I'm from Kilkenny originally, but now living in Dublin, so this topic isn't something that I would have been paying a lot of attention to. But from my limited reading of it, here are my own views on the project:

The ring road should be completed as a priority. Completing the ring road should mean less traffic through the centre of Kilkenny, and also minimise the number of HGVs going through also. It also allows the city's western side to develop.

The CAS scheme in its current form should not go ahead. If, after the completion of the ring road, there are problems with local traffic, then the scheme could be looked at again (ie building a bridge only), but only a design that fits with the character of the city should be built (that new pedestrian bridge at the library is horrible, unnecessary, and completely out of sync with its surroundings). Something similar to Green's bridge would be nice. A big concrete bridge would not only look horrible, but it would encourage HGVs into the city

Arguments for the scheme, such as hoping a Tesco set up in a nearby location, thereby creating jobs, are shortsighted. While a Tesco might create employment, it is also likely to reduce employment at other retailers as they struggle with increased competition, so there is little net increase in employment. And then once the small independent retailers close, all that's left are chain stores, selling the exact same thing. And the character of Kilkenny, not to mention its soul, is lost forever as it now resembles any similar size town. Take a look at Letterkenny if you want to see a town that has lost its soul, its town centre is now empty due to all the retail parks that have sprung up on the outskirts.

Benny Cake

Passed some of the protestors down by the castle today. Typical rent-a-crowd bunch that have a problem with everything...

kikel

That's a shocking thing to say. I was there and don't have a problem with everything.

obezyana

I passed over Greensbridge today some protesters around fair dues to em being out and about on a Sunday.

catbear

Benny Cake wrote: »

Passed some of the protestors down by the castle today. Typical rent-a-crowd bunch that have a problem with everything...

If they are causeless then their protest should not bother you to the point where you are compelled to post about it. Having doubts oh true believer?

Cabaal

Benny Cake wrote: »

Passed some of the protestors down by the castle today. Typical rent-a-crowd bunch that have a problem with everything...

So they are all your typical rent a crowd people are they?

In your eyes I suppose they don't even have jobs?

miece16

Cabaal wrote: »

So they are all your typical rent a crowd people are they?

In your eyes I suppose they don't even have jobs?

more than likely they don't

me89

miece16 wrote: »

more than likely they don't

As someone who has been down at the protest I can say about 90% of the people have job's so get down of your high horse

Cabaal

miece16 wrote: »

more than likely they don't

Think again,
I knew a few involved that are very well educated, have good stable and very well paid jobs.

Very far from wasters,

Dozen Wicked Words

The implication that the unemployed have less right to have an opinion or protest is quite sad.
Not aimed at a particular post, just in general.

catbear

Nonsense. All citizens are taxed through direct or indirect taxation. All have an equal right and equal responsibility to the democratic process. Without defined and exercisable rights and responsibilities all contracts have no meaning, money as we know it becomes valueless and we return to a hand to mouth existence.

If you believe Miece16 that a persons money should grant unequal privilege then it is assumed that you freely prostitute your democratic right to the highest bidder and suffering moral deficit you vilify those who act with principle.

If anyone is freeloading it is you. You might have a wage but what good is it to you if you're incapable of acting on principle. The person who puts their prosperity before their principle loses both.

Your inability to appreciate your rights and responsibilities means you're actually a liability on everyone else. Be hopeful that should your personal liberties be reversed unjustly that there will be principled fellow citizens both waged and unwaged willing to come out in protest for you.

redtelephone

Benny Cake wrote: »

Passed some of the protestors down by the castle today. Typical rent-a-crowd bunch that have a problem with everything...

Troll alert!

kikel

miece16 wrote: »

more than likely they don't

I've a job. In fact, i think I've a very good job. Will also be hiring 5 people this year, Do I fit the profile you speak of?

Another fact it is a very good networking opportunity. I've made some great relationship with people that I will build on in the months and years to come.

I would recommend you go talk to people at the site of the protest. Listen to why they are out protesting. Find out about their background is. Their are people from all walks of life.

As someone who hasn't really got involved in the controversy one way or the other, - If the protest succeeds in stopping the building of the new bridge what happens the awful traffic bottleneck on Greensbridge? It's old and totally unsuitable for the traffic it takes at the moment and really needs to be pedestrianised and renovated.
A new bridge miles out on a ring road wont be suitable for the daily school/work/shopping run which has to come into the city and John's Bridge wont be enough.
I support the protesters as I feel they have the future of our city at heart but I'm unclear as to what the realistic alternatives are.

foxcoverteddy

Hit the nail on the head, whilst the CAS is dubious, what would be satisfactory to the people of Kilkenny?
By the way protesters could be retirees?
To a degree the council have already made a mess of the city, the so called toilets on the Mayors walk and all the anti tank posts, the lack of no one way system, and a lack of any major store apart from Penney's and Dunnes.
Someone cited Carlow, yep a right mess, Clonmel mmm, Thurles can't get there no decent road, Waterford dire, I suppose altogether Kilkenny is just about okay.

Cabaal

inthehat wrote: »

If the protest succeeds in stopping the building of the new bridge what happens the awful traffic bottleneck on Greensbridge? It's old and totally unsuitable for the traffic it takes at the moment and really needs to be pedestrianised and renovated.

Not sure where this idea comes from,
Even if the CAS goes ahead the council has zero plans to pedestrianize greens bridge.

A new bridge miles out on a ring road wont be suitable for the daily school/work/shopping run which has to come into the city and John's Bridge wont be enough.

If the ORR is finished this will mean less traffic on greens bridge, specifically HGV's etc.

I've heard words about a second pedestrian bridge being built around the area, this would make it safer for walkers/cyclists and could allow the removal of the footpath from greens bridge allowing the road to be wider. This would certainly make it better.

What we do know right now is even if the CAS goes ahead greens bridge will not be closed to motorists,