Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

kikel

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

By the way protesters could be retirees?

Plenty of retired people on the protestt. One is a retired school teacher. Another lady I don't know what she did in the past but fair play to her, she was one of the ones who entered the water last week. She has more balls than me, I wouldn't have went that far.

randylonghorn

inthehat wrote: »

As someone who hasn't really got involved in the controversy one way or the other, - If the protest succeeds in stopping the building of the new bridge what happens the awful traffic bottleneck on Greensbridge? It's old and totally unsuitable for the traffic it takes at the moment and really needs to be pedestrianised and renovated.
A new bridge miles out on a ring road wont be suitable for the daily school/work/shopping run which has to come into the city and John's Bridge wont be enough.
I support the protesters as I feel they have the future of our city at heart but I'm unclear as to what the realistic alternatives are.

Well, the completed ring road would reduce the heavy traffic on Greensbridge, but you have a valid point in terms of peak-time traffic at least, inthehat. Personally, I would think an option worth considering would be to renovate Greensbridge and remove the existing footpath,and provide a walkway alongside it to take the pedestrian traffic (see the Salmon Weir bridge in Galway as a general model, though a good architect could improve on the actual implementation / visual impact imho).

obezyana

randylonghorn wrote: »

Well, the completed ring road would reduce the heavy traffic on Greensbridge, but you have a valid point in terms of peak-time traffic at least, inthehat. Personally, I would think an option worth considering would be to renovate Greensbridge and remove the existing footpath,and provide a walkway alongside it to take the pedestrian traffic (see the Salmon Weir bridge in Galway as a general model, though a good architect could improve on the actual implementation / visual impact imho).

I agree about the upgrade of Greensbridge i wonder why they didn't go for that option it seems to me that would of worked out better.

Turnstyle

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Carlow was a kip long before the Fairgreen was built.

reel yourself in you <mod snip>

catastrophy

Construction has resumed?

linny

catastrophy wrote: »

Construction has resumed?

At last :-)

miece16

catastrophy wrote: »

Construction has resumed?

finally!!!!!!

Grats

Was over there and yes indeed work has finally resumed. Plenty of interest and support for the project. At least thirty people came and went while I was there and all in favour. Relief all round now as it is time to move on and let wounds heal.

Watched a YouTube video interview with Malcolm Noonan and in fairness he was largely accepting that the bridge would be going ahead.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

At least thirty people came and went while I was there and all in favour. Relief all round now as it is time to move on and let wounds heal.

What really amazes me is that the pro side never seem to meet anyone that is against it.

Grats

kikel wrote: »

What really amazes me is that the pro side never seem to meet anyone that is against it.

To be fair one couldn't but meet the anti CAS people over the last three weeks anytime one passed near the work site.

kikel

kikel wrote: »

Hey Grats,

What are your opinions on the fact so many other cities trying to remove cars and trucks from cities and Kilkenny bringing more cars and trucks into the city. Do you think this is a a good idea? Pleas let me why you think this is a good idea.

Hey Grats, I asked this question to you earlier in the thread. I think you missed it. i would love to hear a pro cas side.

Grats

kikel wrote: »

Hey Grats, I asked this question to you earlier in the thread. I think you missed it. i would love to hear a pro cas side.

Is there any point at this late stage of regurgitating the debate over and over? I can assure you I missed nothing.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

Is there any point at this late stage of regurgitating the debate over and over? I can assure you I missed nothing.

When you didn't reply i presume you missed it. No problem if you don't want to debate what is best for Kilkennys future.

kikel

Benny Cake wrote: »

Passed some of the protestors down by the castle today. Typical rent-a-crowd bunch that have a problem with everything...

Hey Benny, Here is a typical protester against the bridge.

Grats

kikel wrote: »

When you didn't reply i presume you missed it. No problem if you don't want to debate what is best for Kilkennys future.

As I said, the debate is over. Like the majority of our citizens I know what I think is best and we're finally getting there. Thank you.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

As I said, the debate is over. Like the majority of our citizens I know what I think is best and we're finally getting there. Thank you.

Where are your stats that the majority are for the bridge? Really confused with some of your statements.

Grats

kikel wrote: »

Where are your stats that the majority are for the bridge? Really confused with some of your statements.

Well it's not that confusing really. We voted in the Councillors. The vast majority, 9 out of ten I believe, voted in favour of the CAS. That's a majority in anybody's language.

kikel

Most councillors now favor a review. But they cannot stop it according to the council executive lawyers.

Are councillors just saying that for popular public opinion of the majority?

Grats

kikel wrote: »

Most councillors now favor a review. But they cannot stop it according to the council executive lawyers.

Are councillors just saying that for popular public opinion of the majority?

We all know that a review is meaningless at this stage. They did their duty in the previous council. That's the way democracy works. Let go now and move on.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

We all know that a review is meaningless at this stage. They did their duty in the previous council. That's the way democracy works. Let go now and move on.

If Malcolm Noonans motion for a review was heard in June this disaster for Kilkenny could of been avoided. It's a pity the executive pushed this through with the motion waiting to be heard.

With the lack of decent arguments from yourself and other pro cas people this project is not good for Kilkenny.

Grats

9 out of 10 is good enough for me any day. That's democracy for you. In addition I prefer to listen to and be guided by paid professional experts rather than by self appointed "experts".

The same Malcolm has accepted the inevitable, completion of the bridge, so follow his guidance now and move on. Watch and listen to his interview.

All the arguments were thrashed out long long ago. People ought to have kept themselves informed when it mattered.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

In addition I prefer to listen to and be guided by paid professional experts rather than by self appointed "experts".

Are these the experts that did the report on Vicar Street? The one commission by the council. It is hard to listen and be guided by the council after the report on Vicar St and the report they issued on the removal of trees in the peace park. It would definetly make you consider is the CAS really a good idea for Kilkenny. Should the council get a independent report done on the following.

• Traffic in Kilkenny City
• Pedestrianization of parts of Kilkenny
• Alternative transport methods in Kilkenny
• The current state of Greens bridge
• Restoration of GB over the CAS

Independent reports could really help our city progress in the right direction.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

All the arguments were thrashed out long long ago. People ought to have kept themselves informed when it mattered.

If you look at the vote in the last election you will see their was a strong interest in reviewing this project. It could of been reviewed but Malcolms motion was not heard until last week even though it was on the agenda since June 8th. No wonder the protesters are annoyed.

Grats

kikel wrote: »

If you look at the vote in the last election you will see their was a strong interest in reviewing this project. It could of been reviewed but Malcolms motion was not heard until last week even though it was on the agenda since June 8th. No wonder the protesters are annoyed.

I'm fully aware of all that. As I said, M Noonan has accepted the inevitable. He has led ye up to now, don't abandon him at this stage.

Those houses in Vicar St weren't discovered under ground! Clearly the way some are behaving they only realised the houses existed in the last number of months - strangely enough!

I'm no expert when it come to road/bridge building and that's why I'm happy to depend on paid professional people. Too many self appointed experts turns people off.

redtelephone

The development plan which was adopted by the outgoing council emphasises that the brewery site will be prioritised for retail expansion over the Mart site (page 56). Tesco will be happy to see the bridge being built. I know we're all looking forward to having them as anchor tenants on the Diageo site.

kikel

This the video your talking about? I don't really think he has accepted the inevitable. He does use the word "If"

What are you views on the part of bridge to no where? No cars on this for a number of years?

randylonghorn

Grats wrote: »

Like the majority of our citizens I know what I think is best and we're finally getting there. Thank you.

Again, I'm asking for evidence that the majority of Kilkenny citizens are in favour of CAS. I've asked you before btw. (I wouldn't argue that there is a majority actively against either, mind you; the majority from what I can see fall into the "unconvinced either way" camps).

Grats wrote: »

Well it's not that confusing really. We voted in the Councillors. The vast majority, 9 out of ten I believe, voted in favour of the CAS. That's a majority in anybody's language.

The most recent election (when CAS was actually ON the agenda) saw several additional anti-CAS councillors elected, some of its strongest proponents ousted, and a lot of the rest of the councillors suddenly reacting to public opinion and sitting on the fence as much as possible. And let's remember that there were many other factors apart from CAS influencing why people voted: it wasn't a referendum on CAS. So the number of vocally anti-CAS councillors elected actually represents a significant shift ... enough to scare a lot of the other councillors who were previously gungho into trying to appease both sides.

Grats wrote: »

We all know that a review is meaningless at this stage. They did their duty in the previous council. That's the way democracy works. Let go now and move on.

The previous council was elected when CAS was buried deep under dust in the Council basements. So whatever else its makeup represents, it doesn't represent evidence that the majority of people in Kilkenny favour CAS. CAS wasn't on the agenda at all for that election, so people weren't voting on that basis.

Grats wrote: »

9 out of 10 is good enough for me any day. That's democracy for you. In addition I prefer to listen to and be guided by paid professional experts rather than by self appointed "experts".

My reply to you when you trotted out this stuff before (which you ignored):

randylonghorn wrote: »

So you put all your trust in experts ... or rather in the experts who deem this project necessary, which is far from all of them?

A few years ago, all the experts were telling us that the economy was not over-heating, that we were right to put so many of our eggs in the construction basket, that at worst we were facing a "soft landing" as the economy slowed down.

My father, who left school at 16, could see the writing on the wall as far back as 2004-2005, but the experts couldn't.

And you still expect us to put all our trust in experts, and sheepishly follow their lead without any attempt to critique or question?

Your absolute faith in council planners and elected councillors to get it right all the time is mind-boggling tbh, given the history of both local politics and local planning in this country.

Actually, grats, I'm beginning to wonder if you're politically involved yourself.

You certainly have the politician's gift for ignoring any points which don't suit you, and for condescendingly telling those who don't agree with you to leave it to the "experts" and the councillors, and dropping "democracy" into the conversation every sentence or so while at the same time telling those who don't agree with you to (pretty much) run away and play like good children rather than exercising their democratic right to be heard. Typical old-style politicians mindset tbh.

I'll be honest, if you dropped that attitude and actually argued your point and responded to counter-arguments, I would have a lot more respect for your point of view and give your opinion much more weight.

catbear

randylonghorn wrote: »

Actually, grats, I'm beginning to wonder if you're politically involved yourself

Given the absence of a pro-CAS public petition the only reason Grats would post would be if a vested interest was under threat.

nuttz

randylonghorn wrote: »

Actually, grats, I'm beginning to wonder if you're politically involved yourself.

to me, grats is coming across as a troll, failing to respond to valid questions and deciding to have a dig when the other side is down

foxcoverteddy

I am sorry, but surely to God anyone with an ounce of sense can see the ring road completion is a necessity, do we honestly think pushing 40 ton articulated trucks through Kennyswell is traffic management.
As for the experts should be left to make decisions, come now what exactly is an expert, they cost a lot of money, what have they done so far for our city?
Remember politicians and nappies should be changed on a regular basis for the same reason.
Foxy