Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

linny

Threadhead wrote: »

The picture is of a member of Keep Kilkenny Beautiful being manhandled by two guards. Your supposition that she was asked to move along first has no basis in fact. Can you prove that linny?

Keep Kilkenny Beautiful workers, volunteering on behalf of the community for countless years, typical of the kind of suicidal, thug who is stopping the poor bridge being built by being 'martyrs', yeah?

The pro CAS supporters on this page have continually slandered the protestors and still, not one of you can either give a valid reason for the bridge or have a reasoned debate with any other commenters. You repeatedly come onto this thread to knock others, prattle off complete lies and instigate other users needlessly.

You're a pack of trolls. Exactly the kind of creatures who love bridges.

excuse me I'm no troll I live and work in Kilkenny city, I also volunteer with KKB for many years now,
this bridge and road will only complement the ring road when it gets done, but in the mean time it will be the making of Kilkenny city and open it up for the brewery site and mart site to be developed for the greater good of all in Kilkenny,

Threadhead

linny wrote: »

excuse me I'm no troll I live and work in Kilkenny city, I also volunteer with KKB for many years now,
this bridge and road will only complement the ring road when it gets done, but in the mean time it will be the making of Kilkenny city and open it up for the brewery site and mart site to be developed for the greater good of all in Kilkenny,

When it was first put forward there was no sign of the brewery site being closed. Why is the brewery site being used as a reason for this road when the road was first put forward in the late 70's?

What will this road do for the mart site that the existing entrances and a completed ring road won't do?

What does your version of 'the making of Kilkenny city' entail? What kind of city are you looking for linny?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Cabaal

linny wrote: »

......this bridge and road will only complement the ring road when it gets done in my personal opinion but I have nothing solid to back up this belief, but in the mean time it will be the making of Kilkenny city and open it up for the brewery site and mart site to be developed for the greater good of all in Kilkenny, once again, in my personal opinion but I have nothing solid to back up this belief,

FYP

kikel

linny wrote: »

excuse me I'm no troll I live and work in Kilkenny city, I also volunteer with KKB for many years now,
this bridge and road will only complement the ring road when it gets done, but in the mean time it will be the making of Kilkenny city and open it up for the brewery site and mart site to be developed for the greater good of all in Kilkenny,

The city, the brewery site, mart site can be developed without this bridge. Look at other European cities, they manage to do it. It would be great to follow this modern lead, not follow a plan devised in 1970, a time when car and trucks were promoted within a city. The plan for the brewery quarter is for tech jobs and educational jobs. These jobs promote sustainable transports. So why build the bridge?

miece16

what is she at? the truck driver's only doing his job.

miece16

AND you can clearly see here she's resisting being moved. peaceful my hole

kikel

If they are ignoring the direction of a Garda, why did they not arrest anyone? It is an arrest able offence I think. The gardai know that their are 2 sides here. I'd hate to be the Gardai here. 2 conflicting laws over one development. Which one do they enforce? Now there is a debate....

Cabaal

miece16 wrote: »

what is she at? the truck driver's only doing his job.

She's clearly trying to stop the truck from entering the site as best she can,

Sure that driver is only doing his/her job, but that doesn't make it any better and it doesn't make the job he/her is carrying out right. It'll still result in a massive change to our city scape and one that has a negative impact on the very thing that the city sells itself as.

You seem awful quick to condemn these protesters, would you have said the same about these as well? http://comeheretome.com/2012/12/24/operation-sitric-june-1979/

The destruction of our culture has happened time and time again in this country, even now the Dublin council offices at woodquay are not liked as they were built at the cost of our history. This bridge and the road along with it changes the layout of our city, our medieval city.

Cabaal

kikel wrote: »

If they are ignoring the direction of a Garda, why did they not arrest anyone? It is an arrest able offence I think. The gardai know that their are 2 sides here. I'd hate to be the Gardai here. 2 conflicting laws over one development. Which one do they enforce? Now there is a debate....

They certainly have the power to arrest you for ignoring their instructions
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/man-fined-for-ignoring-garda-27752512.html

This guy was arrested and later charged and fined, can't see the same happening for this women who some people are claiming is ignoring Gardai instruction.

Captain Havoc

There are muppets on both sides of this argument, I was asked the other day about the bridge and plans by someone from Laois, I was explaining it goes from a to b etc.... when someone I was with starts piping up about how I'm all for it and I'm a fool, I hadn't even given an opinion just the facts as I knew them. That sort of attitude would nearly wish the campaign would fail.

linny

Cabaal wrote: »

They certainly have the power to arrest you for ignoring their instructions
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/man-fined-for-ignoring-garda-27752512.html

This guy was arrested and later charged and fined, can't see the same happening for this women who some people are claiming is ignoring Gardai instruction.

Under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 anyone without legal authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be guilty of an offence. The penalty for this offence is a class E fine.

This section was created in order to protect the constitutional rights of the individual to pass and re-pass on a public highway. While the Gardai have no power of arrest under this Section they can invoke the powers of Section 7 of the Act and direct any person to desist from the obstruction in question. Failure to comply with that direction is an offence.

think this is the law now unfortunately

Mocadonna

Captain Havoc wrote: »

That sort of attitude would nearly wish the campaign would fail.

That's as good an argument as I've heard for the bridge on this thread.

Doff

I didn't really care either way on the bridge but after hearing the facts from both sides I find it hard to believe why anyone would want it. The facts provided by the anti cas group are mostly ones that the pro cas group have no comeback or argument against except it will "benefit the town" with how they will build Tesco on the old brewery site which would realistically be the final nail in the coffin for a struggling MacDonagh Juction (unless you have something personal against MacDonagh and its some kind of personal victory I don't see that as a benefit).

Also the amount of trucks it will attract, as a previous poster said Kennyswell will be a nightmare. But at least it will ease traffic off Greensbridge. Essentially kicking the can so far down the road so its someone else's problem.

But disregarding the facts and figures being thrown about its about time people in Ireland actually made a stand against the people in power over something they believe is wrong. I'm delighted to see those people standing up for what they believe in. Its an absolute shame that this country mostly bends over and accepts what the people in power decide to do. In the last few years the only notable protest I can remember is the elderly protesting for the medical card and they got what they wanted. Fair play to the Anti CAS group, no matter who's right or wrong we need more people to stand up and be heard.

Captain Havoc

Doff wrote: »

Also the amount of trucks it will attract, as a previous poster said Kennyswell will be a nightmare. But at least it will ease traffic off Greensbridge. Essentially kicking the can so far down the road so its someone else's problem.

I don't agree, I think it will have no effect either positive or negative on traffic in Kennyswell.

Help!!!!

linny wrote: »

excuse me I'm no troll I live and work in Kilkenny city, I also volunteer with KKB for many years now,
this bridge and road will only complement the ring road when it gets done, but in the mean time it will be the making of Kilkenny city and open it up for the brewery site and mart site to be developed for the greater good of all in Kilkenny,

Are you mad? Do you really want another shopping mall where in a couple of years will have loads of empty units like every other one in kilkenny

Help!!!!

linny wrote: »

Under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 anyone without legal authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be guilty of an offence. The penalty for this offence is a class E fine.

This section was created in order to protect the constitutional rights of the individual to pass and re-pass on a public highway. While the Gardai have no power of arrest under this Section they can invoke the powers of Section 7 of the Act and direct any person to desist from the obstruction in question. Failure to comply with that direction is an offence.

think this is the law now unfortunately

Maybe the law but do you not wish that more people would stand against our corrupt government officials? How many have lined their own pockets over the years backing projects like this then complaining years down the line that towns are not prospering

Help!!!!

Doff wrote: »

I didn't really care either way on the bridge but after hearing the facts from both sides I find it hard to believe why anyone would want it. The facts provided by the anti cas group are mostly ones that the pro cas group have no comeback or argument against except it will "benefit the town" with how they will build Tesco on the old brewery site which would realistically be the final nail in the coffin for a struggling MacDonagh Juction (unless you have something personal against MacDonagh and its some kind of personal victory I don't see that as a benefit).

Also the amount of trucks it will attract, as a previous poster said Kennyswell will be a nightmare. But at least it will ease traffic off Greensbridge. Essentially kicking the can so far down the road so its someone else's problem.

But disregarding the facts and figures being thrown about its about time people in Ireland actually made a stand against the people in power over something they believe is wrong. I'm delighted to see those people standing up for what they believe in. Its an absolute shame that this country mostly bends over and accepts what the people in power decide to do. In the last few years the only notable protest I can remember is the elderly protesting for the medical card and they got what they wanted. Fair play to the Anti CAS group, no matter who's right or wrong we need more people to stand up and be heard.

Well said!! have you seen how many empty units all round Kilkenny? Why the need for mall?

foxcoverteddy

The ring road, does anyone know what the original concept was, did it indicate that it would extend as far as the freshford Road? Unfortunately all this happened before the Internet.
What I am getting at has the council failed to implement the completion of the ring road? Is there a legal beagle around who might help.
I see Tesco has come up again, well with all the other Supermarkets I fail to see Tesco being the big bad wolf, however I am opposed to being dictated that this county is the only one without a Tesco, so like me many Kilkenny residents go to Carlow, Tipperary and Waterford to shop, the council have in their wisdom driven shoppers away.
Whilst at it so to speak, whilst the cost of parking is not an issue, however the car parks are a major pain in the rear, getting in and out of Market Cross on a Saturday, equally Market Yard, the design given approval by the council is pathetic.
One can also sight the lack of a roundabout at the Woodies exit at Loughboy, shows the lack of planning.
McDonagh, how much longer can it hang on, parking a joke.
CAS, well a democratically elected council, we get what we deserve, how much wasted on experts to decide future plans for the city?

linny

these people are really starting to cause nuisance now if two hand to be arrested today
http://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-protests-arrest-1615744-Aug2014/

catastrophy

Disappointing for those involved in genuine protest to have people diminish their cause.

kikel

Terrible that motion for review, sceduled for the June meeting was not heard. It could of save a whole lot of money and avoided the above situation. Shame on the council and the council executive.

Threadhead

All people wanted was a fair democratic review. What people get is 40 guards drafted up from Wexford to enable continuation of the works. And some people have the cheek to blame a few protestors for wasting taxpayers money.

Help!!!!

Threadhead wrote: »

All people wanted was a fair democratic review. What people get is 40 guards drafted up from Wexford to enable continuation of the works. And some people have the cheek to blame a few protestors for wasting taxpayers money.

Tax payers money being used to stop tax payers from protesting.
There will come a time when we will have to react like other European countries to get our point across ( not saying violence ) We as a nation have a history of turning a blind eye to blind eye to people in power lining there own pockets & not caring what the tax payer wants

changepartners

I hope this post isn't too lazy... but where is this bridge going exactly is it replacing the current narrow bridge where they are protesting?

kikel

changepartners wrote: »

I hope this post isn't too lazy... but where is this bridge going exactly is it replacing the current narrow bridge where they are protesting?

Here is my lazy reply.

http://www.savekilkenny.com/

catbear

changepartners wrote: »

I hope this post isn't too lazy... but where is this bridge going exactly is it replacing the current narrow bridge where they are protesting?

The protesters are for a new bridge to complete the ring road which would reduce traffic whereas the CAS will bring congestion closer to the urban core.

Grats

In case anybody reading this thread should be confused - the CAS was democratically decided on after over twenty years of consultations, surveys, discussions etc by elected county Councillors and council officials over those years. We all appreciate that some citizens, and indeed non citizens, are against the project, hence this petition.

Posters/readers of this thread may be further confused with regards to this petition considering that the project is in fact up and running! This thread was set up last year ahead of the final decision, a decision that was devised over the twenty years as mentioned above. As the deadline was reached nearly two months ago I presume you can take it that the petition was lodged ahead of that deadline. Obviously it didn't have the desired results as the project is well advanced at this stage.

There will always be winners and losers in such scenarios. At the end of the day that's how democracy works with the majority having the final say.

So to summarise - the petition didn't work because the majority were in favour of the CAS. The project is up and running. Whatever is debated here now is just letting off steam.

miece16

so when will the new bridge be finished?

foxcoverteddy

I remember democracy in a European country some years ago.

Grats

Meant to add - you will meet dozens of citizens who are in favour of the CAS viewing the works on a daily basis near the swimming pool. Many more than you see on the protest. No more than one motorist in 30 honk as they pass the protest. The recent "Phil Hogan" demonstration attracted no more than fifty people. A lovely elderly lady who participated in the protest in the early weeks told me that she no longer supports it as she just did not like some of the "elements" , her words not mine, that were now involved. In a recent interview on KCLR following the first Garda intervention, a woman protester with an English accent said she was representing a THIRD of the citizens! Even if she was it still isn't a majority.