Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

foxcoverteddy

Quite funny, my European country used it's police force to stop demonstrators, in the end no one demonstrated out of fear

kikel

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

There will be an archaeological investigation..

Wonder why they have not started. They have starting digging holes near an old structure on the brewery side. No archaeologist was present.

Grats

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think scaremongering statement like those above have made me keep my distance from the protests.



There were plenty of reviews, I first saw this back in 2007.




No, that's the complete opposite of democracy.

Need add no more.

Grats

redtelephone wrote: »

Do try to keep up. There are protected structures on both sides of Green's Bridge, a woollen mill on one side and ruins of a water - powered woollen / corn mill on the other, also a tunnel. Any development there would have to be preceded by an archaeological investigation. The record of protected structures is here:
http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/KILKENNY%20CITY%20RECORD%20OF%20PROTECTED%20STRUCTURES.pdf

Bridge been planned for over twenty years and it became news to some in the last year. It's going ahead now following all the consultations etc.

So, take your own advice and do try to keep up!

redtelephone

Grats wrote: »

Bridge been planned for over twenty years and it became news to some in the last year. It's going ahead now following all the consultations etc.

So, take your own advice and do try to keep up!

Well it was no news to me. Neither was the systematic dismantling of much of the medieval city over the past 50 years for short term gain. Twenty years ago this scheme may have had some relevance when it was a 4.5km long relief road. Now 85% of it has been stripped away, leaving just a bridge leading from nowhere to ..nowhere! What a waste. Will this make the city more of a medieval city or less of a medieval city?

Grats

The amount of archeologists, engineers, road planners etc etc on this thread is just amazing! Mind you mostly self appointed experts!

If the petition hasn't already been lodged, well it's too late now. If it has, it failed.

These protesters represent a tiny minority, time to cop on and move on. I see a clown there today, somebody should tell it and the rest that the circus has left town!

Threadhead

Grats wrote: »

The amount of archeologists, engineers, road planners etc etc on this thread is just amazing! Mind you mostly self appointed experts!

If the petition hasn't already been lodged, well it's too late now. If it has, it failed.

These protesters represent a tiny minority, time to cop on and move on. I see a clown there today, somebody should tell it and the rest that the circus has left town!

Proof of the majority please?

You come on here spouting your crazy hyperbolic statments and then when you're quizzed on backing it up, you evade the questions and give some snarky non specific response.

Are you perchance on the council?

Grats

It's not very difficult really if you would only open your eyes and ears. Read my posts instead of repeating the same auld nonsense over and over. You represent a minority who are anti CAS, as demonstrated in my posts. It's logical therefore that the majority are pro CAS.

Resorting to insults, unproven allegations and abuse is a sure sign of losers.

Grats

redtelephone wrote: »

Short on facts, long on speculation and opinion. Nothing to back up any of your assertions. Maybe the clown you saw was in your mirror?

You're a howl! You're also a loser!

redtelephone

Grats wrote: »

You're a howl! You're also a loser!

Short on facts, long on speculation and opinion. Nothing to back up any of your assertions. Maybe the clown you saw was in your mirror? You're the one making unproven allegations.

Grats

See what I mean about repeating the same auld nonsense!

Threadhead

Grats wrote: »

It's not very difficult really if you would only open your eyes and ears. Read my posts instead of repeating the same auld nonsense over and over. You represent a minority who are anti CAS, as demonstrated in my posts. It's logical therefore that the majority are pro CAS.

Resorting to insults, unproven allegations and abuse is a sure sign of losers.

Me opening my eyes and ears doesn't create a majority. If they were protesting for it, at least I'd notice. Facts please?

I don't represent anyone and I'd like you to not make those claims. How have you demonstrated that I represent a minority that is anti CAS?

What unproven allegations, insults and abuse are you talking about? Proof please.

redtelephone

Grats wrote: »

SNIP ...You represent a minority who are anti CAS, as demonstrated in my posts. It's logical therefore that the majority are pro CAS.

Are you saying that your posts decide who is in the minority or majority?

Threadhead

The reason anyone here is going on about 'same auld nonsense' is because they keep having to ask you the same questions you refuse to answer.

Grats

Threadhead wrote: »

The reason anyone here is going on about 'same auld nonsense' is because they keep having to ask you the same questions you refuse to answer.

We're finally getting places - at least you're now acknowledging 'the same auld nonsense'! All your questions have long since been answered, over the last twenty years in fact, but you don't like what you hear.

Grats

redtelephone wrote: »

Are you saying that your posts decide who is in the minority or majority?

The County Councillors decided on behalf of the majority some years ago.

Mocadonna

Grats wrote: »

The County Councillors decided on behalf of the majority some years ago.

Grats, you seem to think the only basis county councillors were elected previously was the CAS. In honesty, I can't remember it being mentioned on any election literature until this year when a lot of candidates were elected on an anti CAS platform, and a couple of staunchly pro CAS people lost their seats. That's why people are calling for a review now, as you keep harping on about democracy you should understand this.

Just because something was decided on "some years ago" doesn't mean it's fit for purpose now either, especially when it's not even the same plan, the current CAS proposal is missing key elements of the original plan such as the western section, and now the houses at Vicar Street can't be touched either so it's barely the same plan.

But this has already been pointed out to you, so I suppose you'll now tell me to get over it and that I've lost. I will hand it to you though, after all the crap the country has been through over the last few years, you still have some faith in politicians!

Captain Havoc

Grats wrote: »

You're a howl! You're also a loser!

redtelephone wrote: »

Short on facts, long on speculation and opinion. Nothing to back up any of your assertions. Maybe the clown you saw was in your mirror? You're the one making unproven allegations.

This is uncivil, please refrain from personal abuse or bans will be handed out.

nootroc

Does Brian Cody base his game plan on decisions made in the 1970's?

catbear

When you mention council experts Grats I presume you're talking about their archeaologist who was over ruled by their governing body, the national museum. This suggests a certain complicity amongst vested interests like yourself against public interests? I include you as a vested interest as your posts are emotively defensive, somewhat reminiscent of Cowen and Lenehan with their "cheapest bailout in history". Insulting people is usually a last resort so the more you insult the closer we must be getting to halting CAS. Thanks for the encouragement.

randylonghorn

Grats wrote: »

A little observation goes a long way. I keep posting the facts, read them.

You keep ignoring posts which you don't like, including some which asked you very specific questions about your "facts".

Grats wrote: »

I will always put my trust in paid qualified experts than self appointed "experts".

As I have pointed out numerous times to you (and been totally ignored), it's exactly that attitude which got us into the current economic mess.

And that was with nearly all the experts agreeing, there's a lot more dissension among the various "experts" on this one.

Grats wrote: »

Save the lollipops for the spoilt people who won't accept democracy!

Typical of your condescending attitude from Day 1 of this thread tbh.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Even if there was only one person against it, there should be a review.....that's democracy.

That, tbh, is ridiculous.

catbear wrote: »

When you mention council experts Grats I presume you're talking about their archeaologist who was over ruled by their governing body, the national museum.

Not the first time said archaeologist was overruled ... or indeed ended up as a witness in the high court as a result to answer questions as to her approach to archaeological investigation.

Anyway, this thread seems to have denigrated into a children's slanging match, so I don't see much point in continuing to participate.

I hope the bridge automagically brings all the economic prosperity and freeflow of traffic and "progress" which some people are convinced it will (though they seem pretty unclear as to why ... as indeed do the Council). It might make up for having that ugly monstrosity planked down in the middle of the city.

Bacon and Cabbage

Threadhead wrote: »

Proof of the majority please?

Tbf the burden of proving a majority clearly lies with the anti-CAS crew

foxcoverteddy

Arts week, on view at one of the locations is a painting of the new pedestrian bridge, do go and see it, you could well be ashamed that it is Kilkenny, and so we come to the new bridge, which will no doubt be very similar, will it affect our tourists, will they come and marvel at the forward thinking council inspired object?
Unless someone can get a court injunction to stop the work, you are wasting time and energy, equally did the council ignore it's obligation to complete the ring road?
No doubt someone will draw pictures of the protesters eventually with long noses and similar witch like features, it is a very slippery road.
Useless diatribe does nothing to enhance the cause of either side.
Foxy

kikel

People ask why did people not engage at the start of the process with this project. Did the council inform us successfully? KK CC publishing it on a website and a local paper enough? That is a debate we surely could have. Looking at other county councils I now feel that Kilkenny county council did not do enough to inform us of their plan. I've an office in Dublin, this morning I checked the mail box and found the following inside it. DLR deliver a leaflet\letter to every home and business informing them of planned infrastructures. does KK CC need to follow this example?

foxcoverteddy

I suspect the CAS and Tesco are linked, the council has never explained the reason the supermarket has no stores in Kilkenny, or whether it has a mandate to proceed with the bridge.
One still must question the continued use of Kennyswell Bridge for heavy goods vehicles and if you like the parking which brings the road down to a one way or single traffic line.
Surely there must be someone who can answer these questions?
Foxy

Mocadonna

Bacon and Cabbage wrote: »

Tbf the burden of proving a majority clearly lies with the anti-CAS crew

Why? Surely it lies with the person who keeps claiming the majority is on his side despite no evidence a majority one way or the other.

See 1st paragraph of my above post.

hi5

There's lots of misinformation out there, for instance if you have a habit of going to Wiki( Yeah, I know!) for your information, it still includes the Kennyswell development as part of the scheme!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Central_Access_Scheme

The Chamber of Commerce have a lot of influence, the got rid of the one way system on the high street after it was introduced.
They have complained that the lack of infrastructure around the Brewery as a determining factor on the development of the Brewery.

foxcoverteddy

Perhaps the council will move it's offices down to the brewery site. What will happen to the Boot Factory? It is huge and no one mentions the place, one can see not much money has been spent on the place it looks run down.
Certainly get a large supermarket on the site, one wonders.

Threadhead

The Boot Factory is staying where it is. The new road just passes by adjacent to it.

oppenheimer1

I'm not from Kilkenny but I have visited it a few times so I have more of a neutral perspective on this. From looking at the plans it is clear why the council see the need for this road, access to the centre of Kilkenny is extremely limited currently with only two bridges crossing the river. This leads to congestion, and in turn people avoid visiting unless necessary. Kilkenny is not unique and these kinds of situations have arisen in Ireland before. The centre of the town cannot grow much economically in the current situation.

When congestion becomes serious, it limits development, and generally pushes it out of the core. Many Irish towns have been hollowed out as business has moved to the fringes, with large carparks etc. Kilkenny had done amazingly well to date at avoiding a similar fate, however pressure is increasing. Without improved access, and with restrictions preventing out of town development, Kilkenny will not grow economically, it will stagnate.

You could say an outer ring will relieve congestion as it removes traffic that is only passing through. This is true. However the completion of the ring without improving access will only increase pressure to allow out of town development, hollowing out the centre as access to the periphery would be easy.