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Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

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    #602
    Grats
    Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I'm not from Kilkenny but I have visited it a few times so I have more of a neutral perspective on this. From looking at the plans it is clear why the council see the need for this road, access to the centre of Kilkenny is extremely limited currently with only two bridges crossing the river. This leads to congestion, and in turn people avoid visiting unless necessary. Kilkenny is not unique and these kinds of situations have arisen in Ireland before. The centre of the town cannot grow much economically in the current situation.

    When congestion becomes serious, it limits development, and generally pushes it out of the core. Many Irish towns have been hollowed out as business has moved to the fringes, with large carparks etc. Kilkenny had done amazingly well to date at avoiding a similar fate, however pressure is increasing. Without improved access, and with restrictions preventing out of town development, Kilkenny will not grow economically, it will stagnate.

    You could say an outer ring will relieve congestion as it removes traffic that is only passing through. This is true. However the completion of the ring without improving access will only increase pressure to allow out of town development, hollowing out the centre as access to the periphery would be easy.


    Absolutely brilliant observation and comments. That's exactly as the majority of our representatives saw/see it. Those opposed to CAS see it differently but in the end a final decision had to be made on our behalf. Our representatives took that decision.


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    #603
    obezyana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    Good post Oppenheimer1 , makes sense as that's exactly what happened in Waterford when the ring road was built. That road paved the way for big units and housing being built out along it's route which in turn helped kill the centre of the town. Of course it's not the only reason why the town died.

    I do like the idea of the new bridge but I do think it's not an ideal location I'm sure they could of built it slightly further away from the town where it would still be a valued asset.

    I would bet anything the completion of the ring road is not far away from being put in place KK needs progress unfortunately it seems as if they are choosing to go about in a slightly skewed way which is after pissing some people off.


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    #604
    Bowlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo



    It’s really quite simple....both anti CAS and CAS want the best for Kilkenny.
    the cas are pragmatist we can afford a 10 million bridge the will rejuvenatethe brewery site and the old mart
    the anti-cas believe in finishing 44 million euro ring round that will take theheavy traffic out of Kilkenny...some say they are dreamers....but there not theonly ones(I’m with them)
    make Kilkenny a one way system have the road that come down dunes quay run tosaint francs gate and it will be all grand

    you might think the difference of 30 million is a lot of money but it is ****all over 50 years

    keep our city beautiful...if they go ahead with the bridge (which I have insiderknowledge that it is inevitable) then don't build more unnecessary shoppingmalls/Tesco

    don't destroy our heritage...we'll be all gone soon enough...think of a hundredyears’ time ...think of your grand kids

    do you want your time to be square buildings square bridges....let's thinkoutside the box...I’m sick of being told what it should be by people who weretold by cheap consultants what it should be


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    #605
    Dowl88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭Dowl88


    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!


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    #606
    Bowlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    Dowl88 wrote: »
    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!
    buddy there not on the dole...think that comment is irrelevant to be honest....think it was terrible that the protestors held up trffic during the week ...bad form.....but if you look in to why the feel that way you be surprised that you might be siding with them...


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    #607
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Dowl88 wrote: »
    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!

    If you're going to counter protest at least make it about the subject and not the protesters.

    Vacuous personal attacks only promulgates your personal envy and insecurity.


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    #608
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    Dowl88 wrote: »
    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!

    Any of them I know are working, in quite well paid jobs. I think you need to take a step back before stating an ill-informed opinion as being a fact.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #609
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    Dowl88 wrote: »
    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!

    I run my own company, currently employ 2 people. Average salary for employee is 48k. Will be hiring another 2 people this year. Found the bridge protest to be a great networking opportunity. Met some very talented people. Even offered a job to one guy who is currently working for a large multiple national company.

    I would really advise you to go to a protest. I've met some great new friends and even done some business.


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    #610
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I'm not from Kilkenny but I have visited it a few times so I have more of a neutral perspective on this. From looking at the plans it is clear why the council see the need for this road, access to the centre of Kilkenny is extremely limited currently with only two bridges crossing the river. This leads to congestion, and in turn people avoid visiting unless necessary. Kilkenny is not unique and these kinds of situations have arisen in Ireland before. The centre of the town cannot grow much economically in the current situation.

    When congestion becomes serious, it limits development, and generally pushes it out of the core. Many Irish towns have been hollowed out as business has moved to the fringes, with large carparks etc. Kilkenny had done amazingly well to date at avoiding a similar fate, however pressure is increasing. Without improved access, and with restrictions preventing out of town development, Kilkenny will not grow economically, it will stagnate.

    You could say an outer ring will relieve congestion as it removes traffic that is only passing through. This is true. However the completion of the ring without improving access will only increase pressure to allow out of town development, hollowing out the centre as access to the periphery would be easy.

    Thanks for you input. The anti cass side are all for the development of the core of the city. They want to see the brewery site developed. We also see that access and congestion can be improved without this bridge. What the best way to do this can come from a new level of public consultation.

    A few non perfect idea from me. I say non perfect as all ideas have to be analysed by experts to check feasibility. And those experts need to be outside of KK coco as the reports they have done in past have been found to be incorrect to make sure this bridge was built.
    1. one way systems in the city centee
    2. more pedestrianisation
    3. more cycle and pedestrian access
    4. improved access to edge of city centre on eac main route.
    5. more parking on the main route. eg freshford road, callan road, castle road, castlecomer road.


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    #611
    Threadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Threadhead


    Dowl88 wrote: »
    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!

    That you think this is fact says nothing about the protestors and everything about your quality of education.


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    #612
    obezyana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    Dowl88 wrote: »
    Its going to happen, whether the protestors like it or not. Protestors are just bored and want something to do as nearly all of them are on the dole. Fact!

    This post is very ignorant. People are protesting because they don't want the bridge to go ahead not because they are on the dole, I'm petty sure many people on the dole don't actually sit around bored, people on the dole can be active productive people and if they spend their time protesting over something they feel is important then so be it.


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    #613
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Only a traiter sets a money value on their civic duty.


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    #614
    pueblo
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭pueblo


    catbear wrote: »
    Only a traiter politician sets a money value on their civic duty.

    fixed that..


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    #615
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel




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    #616
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    pueblo wrote: »
    fixed that..

    Thanks but short sighted voters make short sighted representatives.


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    #617
    DerryRed
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭DerryRed


    I heard from someone this evening that the council are now saying they can't cut the property tax for Kilkenny, as other councils have done, due to the cost of hiring security for the CAS work site.

    Any truth in this?


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    #618
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    DerryRed wrote: »
    I heard from someone this evening that the council are now saying they can't cut the property tax for Kilkenny, as other councils have done, due to the cost of hiring security for the CAS work site.

    Any truth in this?

    What councils have cut the property tax then? I thought the property tax was set by central government, not local government?


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    #619
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    Local authorities can increase it or reduce it by a percentage only - i think it's 15% max


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    #620
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    A lot of spin going on with the council at the moment, they are doing their best to discredit the protesters and will blame them for everything rather than dealing with the issues. They knew this was an election issue and still went and signed contracts.

    AFAIK, the council cannot increase the property tax but could of lowered it by 15%.


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    #621
    1984baby
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭1984baby


    DerryRed wrote: »
    I heard from someone this evening that the council are now saying they can't cut the property tax for Kilkenny, as other councils have done, due to the cost of hiring security for the CAS work site.

    Any truth in this?

    NO truth in this at all. It was an article on rte.ie that the council could not think about lowering it now because of the protests BUT Malcolm Noonan has come out since and stated the FG and FF voted, before the construction of the bridge started, NOT to reduce the property tax.


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    #622
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    kikel wrote: »
    AFAIK, the council cannot increase the property tax but could of lowered it by 15%.

    No it's 15% either way I just checked


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    #623
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    Sky King wrote: »
    No it's 15% either way I just checked

    Fair enough. :) Good for me to know. thanks.


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    #624
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    It would seem the boy'os are in a hurry to get this CAS underway, given how long it has taken and not yet finished the ring road.
    There must be the smell of filthy lucre somewhere in the air, especially when it comes down to threats to the populace.
    As I said before it is similar to what happened many years ago, people laughed then eventually it was too late.
    Having voted a new council it would appear to have made no difference to the stance of these merry men, I wonder why, equally why did the old council sign the papers when they were aware this was an election issue.
    From a distance I would say the election was a waste of time and money.
    The sincere believes of many "Boarders" is going to be ignored by what is described as Democracy, yes; that is what they said many years ago, the people's choice, presume if you tell the people often enough and loud enough they will believe we need a CAS, okay we need a CAS, we need a CAS, if you protest we will hit your pocket, trust us you need the CAS. Foxy


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    #625
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Has the protest now come to an end? were those against the idea of a CAS been warned off? Democratically of course.
    By the way how about the Hoban bridge and the Hoban way for names, the great man is not given much credibility in the city.
    In truth he is more famous than Christopher Wren, but most people know he built St Pauls, honestly how many are aware he built the White House and he was a native of Callan?
    Do we have a council that has and still lacks vision?
    Foxy


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    #626
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    Good few people protesting there this morning. I go over the bridge most days for work, always a presence there, even in the miserable weather. Was past there midnight on Friday and still people there.


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    #627
    Bowlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    Could some post the outcome of the council meeting today when they get the news?


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    #628
    redtelephone
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭redtelephone


    Bowlardo wrote: »
    Could some post the outcome of the council meeting today when they get the news?

    According to KCLR the vote at Kilkenny County Council re 138 motion: 5 for, 17 against, 2 absent. Motion defeated. The bridge goes ahead.


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    #629
    bloopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Oh well. Disappointing but not unexpected.
    At least we can stop pretending that the FF/FG "opposition" to each other is anything more than optics.


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    #630
    linny
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭linny


    fantastic news hopefully now it will be full steam ahead


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    #631
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    The scheme was going ahead irrespective of the vote, as far as the council was concerned, you knew that when the contracts were exchanged.
    It is almost a racing certainty that the CAS is a gateway for Tesco to arrive in Kilkenny.
    Whether the CAS will be beneficial to us as residents is another matter, our once lovely city is marching into the future, out with the old and in with the new.
    Much of the new finds it difficult to blend in with the old, in truth it doesn't, so I suspect over the years the rest of the old will be knocked down for progress, leaving only the Castle and Canices for the visitors.
    With little else will those visitors come and line the pockets of our hard pressed retailers?
    I personally do not think this is the end of the line, the next route could well be a legal challenge, which could be protracted as legal matters are.
    Will the CAS encourage me to shop in Kilkenny, no I will support Clonmel
    and to a degree our own Callan.
    My opinion of local government is somewhat jaded, seeing the mess they have caused, irrespective of completion of the ring road, it is a very poor example of town planning, it is not designed for future expansion.
    One can cite many examples but this is not the right thread, for example toilet facilities in Kilkenny are without a pun crap.
    Foxy


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