Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

Bowlardo

redtelephone wrote: »

According to KCLR the vote at Kilkenny County Council re 138 motion: 5 for, 17 against, 2 absent. Motion defeated. The bridge goes ahead.

who were the two absent and what was their excuse?

linny

Bowlardo wrote: »

who were the two absent and what was their excuse?

David Fitzgerald. And. Joe Malone

linny

Bowlardo wrote: »

who were the two absent and what was their excuse?

David Fitzgerald. And. Joe Malone

foxcoverteddy

Yes, you have some valid points, in truth both sides of the argument are speculative.
I will ask who is going into the old mart? We have a road going there, for what.
Kilkenny will need the infrastructure to develop and grow, slightly tongue in cheek I would say, surely to god the ring road completion would or should come first.
Knocking Vicars Street, ugly part of the city, beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder, it was old world and deliberately run down, what do you say to the ruin behind Market Cross, it has been like it for a few years, is it being preserved or will Market Cross be knocked.
The car park is an abomination at the Cross, but the experts agreed the plans, mmm.
The traffic in Kilkenny can be silly, will the CAS to nowhere solve anything.
As for shopping, well old folk will tell you it is not easy go to Market Yard park, need to go to McDonough ah move the car, ah yes a shop in the Cross, do me a favour.
But I respect your opinion.
Foxy

nootroc

An extra storey on the Ormonde Street car park
A couple of extra houses in The Weir area
The pedestrian bridge not what was planned
The entrance to Robertshill- a roundabout then traffic lights. No footpath so you have to cross the road if you want to walk to town.
Traffic lights sequence from Market Cross at night time when it is closed
The Parade Plaza
etc

Cabaal

nootroc wrote: »

An extra story on the Ormonde Street car park

pfft, that was a simple mistake...easy happen
:pac:

Sky King

A likely storey.

Ba dum tish.

foxcoverteddy

Okay, but what about Kennyswell bridge? Honestly if it is part of traffic management and the strategic plan, there is no hope for us, the top floor of the ormonde car park, are you suggesting the builders could not count and the city planners were unable to see what was happening.
I think from what we have the planners do go round with their eyes shut, I hate to think where the brewery site is going, mark you we have not got a marina in Kilkenny, now that would be progress.
When is market cross coming down?

nootroc

Sure Kennyswell is going to be bypassed, the yellow diggers will be up there shortly. I'm sure the owner of Kilcreene Lodge will be boiling the kettle for their 10.00 o'clock cuppa everyday.

It'll be alright anyway with the 30kph limit and traffic lights.

1984baby

Quote:
It is almost a racing certainty that the CAS is a gateway for Tesco to arrive in Kilkenny.

Are you sure Tesco even want to come to Kilkenny? Have you seen their losses?

Yes they are - they have made a written submission to KK Co Co to locate on the brewery site.

foxcoverteddy

Hi, I understand and appreciate the feeling that Tesco will hurt the small trader, but; the damage has already been done by Supervalu, Dunnes, Lidl and Aldi, it is a red herring, all that will happen is a percentage of folks will toddle into Tesco some will stop travelling to Carlow, Clonmel and Waterford, in fact any small shops nearby could well benefit.
Be assured Tesco is not the big bad wolf, you have more to fear from the offices in John Street.
They sell pork pies, wow,

Cabaal

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

in fact any small shops nearby could well benefit.

I fail to see how,

If Tesco open a superstore it'll sell everything electrical, exercise stuff, clothing, home ware, stationary, etc etc This setup does not encourage people to leave the store.

In a far far wider range then any of the other stores, this means it'll hurt everyone in some way, from DID to the clothes shops on the street.

Hell, Tesco try and even cover the fuel by opening petrol stations. They want their operation to be a one stop shop, anything they can do to encourage spending within their premises is a good thing for them.

Sure the likes of Aldi and Lidl hurt the likes of Dunnes but they are very far from a one stop shop, the same can be even said for Dunnes (though to a lesser extent when compared to Aldi/Lidl).

Aldi/Lidl have offers and you can do your general shop but they are very far from a replacement for the high street shops as the only occasionally sell clothing, electrical etc. Tesco on the other hand have an electrical section, a clothing section, a bike/exercise section and so on.

1984baby

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

What harm do you expect Tesco to cause? Hurt small businesses?

It's not just Tesco but the whole development including the CAS.
The Council, at present, do not have permission to knock the houses in Vicar Street. If the houses are to remain in place then this scheme will be useless and will only service the brewery site.
A similar development took place in Carlow, Fairgreen Shopping Centre, and it pretty much killed off the rest of the town. At one stage Tullow st had a vacancy rate of 60% to 75%. The place is like a ghost town and the Council are now thinking of not charging rates to people in that area.
Tullow street is approx 350 metres from the shopping centre - roughly the same distance from the brewery site to High St.
Also, I think that it is not good for the Council to own such a vast site in the city centre as it has the potential to skew planning decisions in favour of the site.

nuttz

1984baby wrote: »

It's not just Tesco but the whole development including the CAS.
The Council, at present, do not have permission to knock the houses in Vicar Street. If the houses are to remain in place then this scheme will be useless and will only service the brewery site.
A similar development took place in Carlow, Fairgreen Shopping Centre, and it pretty much killed off the rest of the town. At one stage Tullow st had a vacancy rate of 60% to 75%. The place is like a ghost town and the Council are now thinking of not charging rates to people in that area.
Tullow street is approx 350 metres from the shopping centre - roughly the same distance from the brewery site to High St.
Also, I think that it is not good for the Council to own such a vast site in the city centre as it has the potential to skew planning decisions in favour of the site.

I work in Carlow and walk up Tullow street most days, its sad to see the state of the place. The Carlow shopping centre is struggling with probably half the units empty. Tesco do have a well documented track record in this regard, a small bit of googling can give plenty of examles. For Kilkenny, CAS seems inevitable now, I think the focus should probably move to preventing the same happening at the mart or brewery sites.

redtelephone

1984baby wrote: »

Quote:
It is almost a racing certainty that the CAS is a gateway for Tesco to arrive in Kilkenny.

Are you sure Tesco even want to come to Kilkenny? Have you seen their losses?

Yes they are - they have made a written submission to KK Co Co to locate on the brewery site.

In case of any doubt, read page 44 here:

http://ourplan.kilkenny.ie/sites/default/files/files/Manager's%20Report.pdf

Dowl88

Sooner the Central access scheme is built the better. Protesters are only delaying it. Its going to go ahead whether they like it or not.

redtelephone

At least Tesco have some good bogof deals.:)

foxcoverteddy

Please understand I am not knocking any individual, I respect other peoples opinions and points of view.
Tesco have never decimated any town centre, it is you who have been responsible, yes, no one was ever forced to enter any supermarket, here or the UK, you shopped by personal choice.
There are experts who will write and seize the opportunity to knock Tesco as the problem of the declining High St, but they ignore the one word progress, we no longer queue outside telephone boxes, we no longer queue in banks, very few people have milk delivered or bread, the paper boy has gone and so it goes on, throw in the internet if you like, it is all part of this perceived progress.
1948 saw the first supermarket open in the UK, they have never looked back, one might feel sorry for the small trader, the same goes for the bus conductor who succumbed to the one man bus, it is a changing world.
It is mainly the older generation who morn the passing of what was, instead they should welcome the new world.
Foxy

foxcoverteddy

Having sat back and given this whole project some consideration, I am convinced that the Brewery site and the old mart are going to be a bone of contention for quite a few years yet.
Firstly the houses in Vicar Street, by the way why is parking permitted? are not able to be demolished legally, well there are ways and means of removing unwanted structures, the four letter word; "Fire", then making the structures "Dangerous", Firestone had an art deco building on the Great West Road, someone took it down in the night, these things happen.
Why build the bridge until there is a clear obstacle free site.
I am not saying the CAS is good or bad for Kilkenny, so far the only people to gain is the construction company.
If the brewery site is developed, where is the traffic going or coming from, we have experienced council planning at Market Cross and Market Yard, Mickey Mouse might have done a better job.
Having seen what the planners achieved in Carlow, God help us in our hour of need.
Foxy

hi5

According to that link above the McDonagh Junction will be extended before the Mart site is developed, so I'd say it will be a long time before we see anything on the Mart site.
Also, the Brewery isn't that far from the High Street and I'd say the traders on the High St are hoping the Brewery site will compliment the High Street for shopping. Its certainly a lot closer than the Fairgreen is to Tullow Street in Carlow.
You can see why they would be pushing for the Brewery development before a McDonagh extension.

foxcoverteddy

I am at a loss to what is actually coming to our City? We need some things that will increase the footfall in the High Street, it must be visitor orientated, the ring or CAS must make any development viable, we have seen the lunatic fringe shove a foot bridge into what was a fairly decent view.
We must be proud of our city, proud to come from Kilkenny.
During arts week we went to the design centre for coffee, a piece of coffee cake and a coffee, the cake did not taste remotely of coffee, yeh it's only for tourists they won't be back, it is no good having that attitude, the same as the toilet facilities they are without doubt an effing disgrace, there was even a door missing in Market Cross, perhaps someone used it for an artistic emblem.

catbear

Yeah, I was so disappointed with how uncoffeeish the coffee cake was there that I up and emigrated. No regrets.

And to think before I bit into it I could never imagine living anywhere else but Kilkenny, I was going to pick my grave that very afternoon.

foxcoverteddy

Catbear please don't joke about such things, we need your guidance and common sense at this time.
Foxy

catbear

You want wisdom?

Aristotle was asked what things should an intelligent person acquire?
He replied "those things which will swim with you when your ship sinks."

Or

Plato was asked "how can one take revenge against one's enemy?"
He replied, "by becoming better oneself".

obezyana

Reading on RTE news that the protesters were removed this morning so it should steam ahead now. Unless they defy and return to protest which I'd be surprised if they didn't. Was it a messy removal or did they go peacefully?

obezyana

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

I recall someone saying they will be there till Christmas. :rolleyes:

Who mentioned that?

obezyana

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

One of the anti folk on the CaS for Kilkenny facebook page.

Ah right. Ah sure regardless of the protests it was always going to go ahead so I guess they might now realise they lost this one.

linny

maybe they will move further down the river and protest and the new pedestrian bridge there building
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/pedestrian-underbridge-to-open-in-october-1-6263063

kikel

The new pedestrian bridge will be a great addition to the city and the river walk. The artists impression looks weird. Whats the story with the yellow part underneath. Looks weird.

obezyana

kikel wrote: »

The new pedestrian bridge will be a great addition to the city and the river walk. The artists impression looks weird. Whats the story with the yellow part underneath. Looks weird.

What yellow part are you seeing?