Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

rugbyman

I have heard on the radio and read in newspapers of the fact that there are people against this current project. I know nothing of it and have not read all this thread, though I will .

the reason that I am typing now is to point out that petitions are ABSOLUTELY USELESS.
If there are a considerable number of people who are opposed to this project, I suggest the only way to get action( though if the project has started and is not derailed by conservation issues, it will not be stopped) is to assemble the names of the anti people into groups of who you voted for and go and inform the councillors that all of you and your families( assuming your families agree with you) and that your voting support has ended. If you really mean it, you can add strength to this by telling them you intend to vote for their opponent.

As I type I realise that I have ASSUMED that councillors voted for this. This may not be so.
In short, on this or any other issue , petitions are a waste of time and effort. Informing the councillor you voted for of your definite intention of supporting another is of considerable use. Informing him/her of your opposition to a project is of little value.
Regards

P.s. if there are not hundreds of you, then this line is not much use either

foxcoverteddy

Rugbyman, I am inclined to agree with your opinion, positive action might well be a more entertaining way, though the bridge campers might not agree.
One might say that the council ignored any alternative in the belief they new better or maybe you cannot tell us what to and what not to do. As our friend Catbear suggests the council is acting from what transpired in the dark dim past.
I am not certain how one gets over such situations, we need strong leadership but not one that is determined to put down the electors with threats etc.
One has to look back in history when democratically elected representatives decided to go down a road which led to disaster, equally look at our close neighbours they have let their history slip down the drain, you cannot bring it back, as the advert says when it's gone it's gone.
This is one aspect regarding the brewery site, the last thing we want there is Tesco, it is not the right place, a University would make much better sense, we need to nourish our young people.
Educating Foxy

Jesper

I'm not 100% in favor of the bridge. Absolutely there has been errors made but I think the benefits of the proposed redevelopment far out-weight some of the real and perceived mistakes/wrong-doing on this project.
Remember there has been a 3 year open consultancy program regarding the development of the old brewery site. Personally I'm very pleased with the plans and I've been tracking it for quiet some time.

http://invest.kilkenny.ie/node/43

http://ourplan.kilkenny.ie./

As far as I'm aware the site redevelopment is dependent on this bridge. The site is going to have 35,000 sq ft of office space, University Campus, Living (social housing and elderly housing included and skillfully planned into the quarter) and cafe's/restaurants.
Kilkenny City and county has designated Bellview Port as it's 'Industrial Development' site. Therefore if we don't advance on this project we will continue to fall behind in developing the city and surrounding area. We are literally putting all our eggs in the 'tourist' basket and if people haven't realized that is a very fickle industry that we are also falling behind in!

Please support the development of Kilkenny where possible and be willing to suffer some discomfort in the process.

kikel

Jesper wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the site redevelopment is dependent on this bridge.

That is what interested parties like to say. They have not ever even looked at the possibility of developing this site without the bridge.

When the council put out the brewery site development to some of the best town planners (Not council) people they never consulted them if this bridge was a good idea. They just said we are building this bridge. you give us a design around that.

If they gave these great town planners a free range on vision for the city as w whole we could have a better Kilkenny.

Jesper

kikel wrote: »

That is what interested parties like to say. They have not ever even looked at the possibility of developing this site without the bridge.

They just said we are building this bridge. you give us a design around that.

If they gave these great town planners a free range on vision for the city as w whole we could have a better Kilkenny.

So what then... We're at the construction phase - like it or not the plans include the bridge. Do you expect/want the full process to go back into the tender stage and back into design to accommodate those who do not like the bridge design? There is an economical turn around happening now - we need to be prepared to capitalize on it and not go back to the start.

Most people don't realise that MSD (Carlow) was destined for Kilkenny. Except delays/pandering/little mindedness of Kilkenny people delayed it so much that a Carlow Councillor came in and within 3 days offered a reasonable solution. Now 5 years on they have a landmark facility employing hundreds in well paying jobs. This is not like for like but people should be aware the 'Taxbacks/Healthcare companies' etc that are expected to be the anchor tenants of the Diageo site won't hang around and wait when they can set up anywhere with a desk and computer.

kikel

Jesper wrote: »

This is not like for like but people should be aware the 'Taxbacks/Healthcare companies' etc that are expected to be the anchor tenants of the Diageo site won't hang around and wait when they can set up anywhere with a desk and computer.

So the 'NEW' jobs for this site are not actually 'NEW@ they are just going to move jobs around. So is this Diageo site a gift to the Kilkenny people or a gift to Taxback and VHI. Odeary me, it looks like the people of Kilkenny are been made fools of again.

Jesper

kikel wrote: »

So the 'NEW' jobs for this site are not actually 'NEW@ they are just going to move jobs around. So is this Diageo site a gift to the Kilkenny people or a gift to Taxback and VHI.

Those were just examples of footloose industries that can move anywhere with a phone line and desk which is the industry being sought for the Diageo site. I work closely with automation companies myself. I've been praising the virtues of the site to SME's who could move there overnight and benefit the local economy and pay local charges/taxes. What image do you think you offer them?

[/QUOTE] Odeary me, it looks like the people of Kilkenny are been made fools of again.[/QUOTE]

You do understand that the WHOLE 65 acre IDA Business and Technology Park in Carlow wasn't just given to Merck in Carlow it was BOUGHT for them by the IDA. I'm sure the 200 employees feel bad that the local people have been made 'fools of again'.

linny

just reading this over on The Kilkenny Journal facebook page makes interesting reading

DURROW MUSSELS.

THE MUSSEL IS MILES UPSTREAM AWAY FROM KILKENNY CITY!

AND THE MUSSELS MUST BE MOVED TO CLEANER WATERS ( KP 2005 report)

- DO THE MUSSELS STILL SURVIVE, AND WHERE?

From the Kilkenny People 5th January 2005. According to this the mussels exist between Ballyragget and Poormans bridge in County Laois!

"A rare type of mussel that can live for 100 years and is only found in the River Nore faces extinction, an expert has warned. The Nore is the only known location in the world for the freshwater pearl mussel also known as Margaritifera durrovensis. The local mussels face extinction if they are not moved to cleaner waters, according to a recent report by Dr Evelyn Moorkens in the magazine Irish Wildlife. The mussels can be found between Poorman's bridge in Laois and Ballyragget, ten miles north of Kilkenny city. The freshwater pearl mussels are protected by the Wildlife Act and by the European Union's Habitats Directive."

Here the expert witness herself, Dr. Moorkens states that the mussels must be moved to cleaner waters than the Nore if they are to survive - and that was back in 2005 when she stated that.

Now one wonders did she, as expert witness, actually tell the Judge this at all in court yesterday?
But the good news is that the mussels have to be moved out of the Nore ( if they are still there) for their survival.
And they are ten miles away from the bridge site (upstream) here in Kilkenny city anyway, by the testimony of the expert witness herself , that she may or may not have given to the judge in court yesterday. (we are indebted to Mr. Edward Dullard, Wildlife /Nature photographer, for having discovered this. And of course to the Kilkenny People originally) .

The Mussels' name "Magnaritifera Durrovensis", does this mean "coming to Durrow" in Latin, must do. The judge should know that! So that places the mussels up on the northern border of County Kilkenny, nothing therefore to do with Kilkenny city or our bridges at all.

mountcisco

Jesper wrote: »

Those were just examples of footloose industries that can move anywhere with a phone line and desk which is the industry being sought for the Diageo site. I work closely with automation companies myself. I've been praising the virtues of the site to SME's who could move there overnight and benefit the local economy and pay local charges/taxes. What image do you think you offer them?

So you want "footloose industries" as you call them, on the Diageo site? If they're footloose they're here today and gone tomorrow to another phone line and desk. Good riddance is what I say.

mountcisco

linny wrote: »

just reading this over on The Kilkenny Journal facebook page makes interesting reading...

The Kilkenny Journal hmmmm..

Did you know the word "Gullible" is not to be found in any dictionary?

kikel

Jesper wrote: »

Those were just examples of footloose industries that can move anywhere with a phone line and desk which is the industry being sought for the Diageo site. I work closely with automation companies myself. I've been praising the virtues of the site to SME's who could move there overnight and benefit the local economy and pay local charges/taxes. What image do you think you offer them?

Odeary me, it looks like the people of Kilkenny are been made fools of again.[/QUOTE]

You do understand that the WHOLE 65 acre IDA Business and Technology Park in Carlow wasn't just given to Merck in Carlow it was BOUGHT for them by the IDA. I'm sure the 200 employees feel bad that the local people have been made 'fools of again'.[/QUOTE]

I'm all for development of the site. I even promote industry on the site. My initial point was that the site can be developed without this bridge? The council are the ones spinning that it cannot be developed without the bridge. The industries you describe can be developed on the site without a bridge. Look at other European cities. They are all taking traffic out of cities and Kilkenny county council try and implement a plan from the seventies. This type of planning is rediculous. No wonder people are up in arms over it, the council didn't listen to the people it represents. If they did listen the wouldn't of wasted all this money trying to push the project down the throats of the citizens of Kilkenny. The council have very little respect for the people it is meant to represent. They are wasting all our money by not listening and taking note at election time. The council have stated that they were surprised by the protests, that they weren't expecting them. That is because they didn't listen to the petition from the people of Kilkenny. They ignored the people of Kilkenny at election time, they have no respect for any of us. It is time that they listened to us and stopped wasting OUR money.

foxcoverteddy

Difficult this one, yes we need another bridge badly, equally we need the ring road completed, furthermore the brewery site will in years to come indicate the success or failure of the present council; there is undoubtedly a need to get heavy goods vehicles away from the city, quite a problem, albeit one the council has neglected for too long.
Trash developments will do no good for the city or the residents, the council will go down in history as being incapable if they go down that road.
Do we really need housing? Do we need offices? Anyone been down the Dublin Quays and seen all the empty offices to let, ah twas not in the boom of course.
Someone suggested tourists were fickle, unfortunately it is a human trait, Kilkenny needs something unique and permanent.
In truth I have not the vision to really suggest what we need, apart from a University, not an IT and not linked to either Carlow or Waterford.
Most Irish academics appear to go to Trinity or UCD, this of course makes accommodation expensive, but why and perhaps some one can help here, have Kilkenny provide similar if not specialist subjects.
Why do our youngsters go across to the UK to seats of learning?
I believe the future is in the hands of the young people and as much as possible should be done to encourage them, forget the old fogies who rant and rave about the young, the world has changed and is still changing, but the need for education is still paramount.
Okay if you want a decent museum where do you go Dublin, we have nothing here, Rothe House it tries but you wouldn't come from New Ross just to see it, sorry.
I know it is not London, but natural history, do we have anything, people harp on about the famine, time to move on.
The CAS well, the council is determined, is there enough support to go legal and tie the whole thing up?
The council might be right but there is an overwhelming swell of opposition, build the ring first which you should have done twenty years ago.
By the way where are we poaching the office fillers from?
Goodnight Foxy

catbear

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

The cattle mart, there for 20 years unused (14 acres) . The brewery sight getting dismantled in October. Infrastructure will be needed in these areas to accommodate what developments lay ahead.

Someone mentioned having a marina or dock along the river? Think it would fit nicely along the brewery river bank

Don't forget the international airport that can't happen without congestion acceleration scheme.

foxcoverteddy

I think Waterford has the edge on Kilkenny regarding airports, dam sure Kilkenny Council whose road management is widely known to be almost non existent could not manage to run an airport.
However, infrastructure for this new iconic area of Kilkenny, of course, I was thinking of the cafe's and restaurants and one must presume bar's, despite the area being within walking distance of everywhere else, as a tourist or resident even how are you going to get me to visit the office blocks, sheltered housing etc.
Of course free parking would be a necessity, do I expect people to come without cars, no, what people will fill the cafe's etc, did the experts guarantee an amount of what is termed footfall in the vicinity.
Kilkenny is only a small place and our shops just about make a living, look at John Street with people coming from the station, you cannot call it a shopping mecca.
The brewery site has to have something special for us the people to visit, I really do not want to see Tesco and the like shoved in there, even if such things as brown envelopes have been promised, we are looking for the future of our city.
Just have a drive around Waterford or Carlow do you want Kilkenny to look like either of them, yes; it must be difficult to decide what Kilkenny needs, dare I say it not a CAS for sure and a ring road for definite.
We could do boat trips up the Nore to see the mussels?
Early morning Foxy and what about the bloody toilets, no one has mentioned them

foxcoverteddy

I have the perfect answer to the CAS, we need a bus station on the brewery site, this will increase and guarantee the footfall required, make full use of the CAS, make tourists walk the High Street to get to the Castle, build proper toilets.
This will free up Castle Road, unblock Rose Inn Street and allow a decent Taxi park.
Of course wheelchair users will be well catered for, unlike High St and Keirons, where wheelchair users can be seen removing false teeth before they shake out, perhaps Kilkenny could be given an award for it's imagination for wheelchair users.
Come to Kilkenny the wheelchair users paradise, I guess the shop selling motorised ones near the Market Cross is a good example one hurtles down James Street the brakes fail and one is hit by a vehicle, instant paradise.
Perhaps an airport might be a better option.
By the way how does one get a wheelchair into some of the restaurant toilets, mmm

Rantan

mountcisco wrote: »

The Kilkenny Journal hmmmm..

Did you know the word "Gullible" is not to be found in any dictionary?

I agree...the KK journal - obviously has a much better grasp of facts and reality than our judicial system...so why do we even bother with a court system? lets just leave important decisions up to journalists and google....we'd save a fortune?:rolleyes:

Rantan

kikel wrote: »

Odeary me, it looks like the people of Kilkenny are been made fools of again.

...... If they did listen the wouldn't HAVE wasted all this money trying to push the project down the throats of the citizens of Kilkenny. .....[/QUOTE]

im really sorry...I just couldn't hold it in any longer.....:o

foxcoverteddy

If it is to be Kilkenny International Airport we need a runway of approx. 1800 metres for a Boeing 737 to land and take off, we might get MOL to bring his fleet here.

catbear

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Open your eyes. You speak of congestion, look at it in that area at present.

You're right, we need another bridge upstream from greensbridge to complete the ringroad. Welcome to the progressives.

kikel

Rantan wrote: »

...... If they did listen the wouldn't HAVE wasted all this money trying to push the project down the throats of the citizens of Kilkenny. .....

im really sorry...I just couldn't hold it in any longer.....:o[/quote]

I'm really sorry. Ive always stuggled with gramner even since I was a kid. I probably always will.

Have you point it out to me makes me feel really good.

foxcoverteddy

Don't worry I used to write a newsletter for a group, they gave me a dictionary as a birthday present, you are doing super, well done.
Foxy

catbear

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Right. Because that will be the solution to existing matters surrounding the Greens bridge area.

Hopefully the same concerns for the environment will be shown when completion of the ring rd goes ahead.

The ringroad would bring all cross river traffic between the comer road and freshford road away from the city core rather than closer as the congestion acceleration scheme would do.
It's the logical progression whereas the bad management of the congestion acceleration scheme is symptomatic of an absence of forward planning.

miece16

catbear wrote: »

Don't forget the international airport that can't happen without congestion acceleration scheme.

what is this you speak of?

catbear

miece16 wrote: »

what is this you speak of?

CAS

Captain Havoc

linny wrote: »

sweet fxxk another quack can we not just build this badly needed bridge

There's no need for name calling

catbear

catbear wrote: »

The ringroad would bring all cross river traffic between the comer road and freshford road away from the city core rather than closer as the congestion acceleration scheme would do.
It's the logical progression whereas the bad management of the congestion acceleration scheme is symptomatic of an absence of forward planning.

The problem is - a large proportion of the traffic at present going over Greensbridge needs to go into the city, - to work, to school, to shop, to deliver goods. I travel over Greensbridge a couple of times a day on my way into the city. I don't want to be channelled miles out the country.

Cabaal

inthehat wrote: »

The problem is - a large proportion of the traffic at present going over Greensbridge needs to go into the city, - to work, to school, to shop, to deliver goods. I travel over Greensbridge a couple of times a day on my way into the city. I don't want to be channelled miles out the country.

Is this something you've just decided yourself because you assume everyone is doing this or do you actually have some facts and figures to back it up? Cause its a pretty meaningless claim otherwise.

Also concentrating purely on greens bridge is extremely short sighted,

Lets take traffic that wants to go from the Callan road side of the city to the Freshford road, HGV's currently go down by Roberts hill and then pull back onto the even more built up residential area just after the Gardai station, then they head up towards the hospital...all through area's they really don't need to be in.

Cars/Trucks that want to get from the Newpark Hotel side of Kilkenny need to go across greens bridge and then also head up through mainly residential area's.

All in all its an awful setup and it means lots and lots of needless traffic goes through the City. The CAS will do nothing to stop any of this sort of traffic.

Thats only one example of traffic that has no place in the city having no other choice but to use the city.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

All in all its an awful setup and it means lots and lots of needless traffic goes through the City. The CAS will do nothing to stop any of this sort of traffic.

Thats only one example of traffic that has no place in the city having no other choice but to use the city.

I'm not disputing any of that Cabaal - my point is that while some traffic undoubtedly needs to be channelled out to a ring road there is still the traffic which needs to go into the city. Where I live most of my neighbours work in town. All of the secondary kids go to school in the town. We all shop in town. So we need to get in there. I don't have figures but it's my observation that large numbers of people go into Kilkenny city because they have to. So I feel we need both a decent access to the city and a ring road.

kikel

inthehat wrote: »

I'm not disputing any of that Cabaal - my point is that while some traffic undoubtedly needs to be channelled out to a ring road there is still the traffic which needs to go into the city. Where I live most of my neighbours work in town. All of the secondary kids go to school in the town. We all shop in town. So we need to get in there. I don't have figures but it's my observation that large numbers of people go into Kilkenny city because they have to. So I feel we need both a decent access to the city and a ring road.

Where abouts do ye live? Would cycling/walking be an option in the future?

kikel

kikel wrote: »

Where abouts do ye live? Would cycling/walking be an option in the future?

I live 6 miles from KK and - no -it wouldn't be an option for normal day to day stuff like shopping, transporting kids, elderly family members etc. Are you suggesting that those of us who live outside the borough boundry shouldn't be bringing in cars and clogging up the town on the city-dwellers?? Maybe we should go back to going to town in the pony and cart:D??