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Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

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    #1082
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    road_high wrote: »
    Horse has well and truly bolted at this stage, no point rehashing old ground.
    McDonald has a particular anti-road bias so I'd take him with a pinch of salt tbh. Though I agree re the need for the ring road to be finished asap.


    So mcdonald knows a lot about how roads can be detrimental to our city. Other cities Dublin, London included are try to remove traffic and u wanna take this with a pinch salt. I really think we should be listening to this forward thinker.


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    #1083
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    So it was damaged once it's ok to continue to damage the river that is marked as a special area of conservation? Hmmm
    Seeing as you setting yourself up as defender against my criticism of his hyperbole, can you iterate his stance on the kilkenny Flood Relief Scheme.
    I don't remember any pickets against that!


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    #1084
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Seeing as you setting yourself up as defender against my criticism of his hyperbole, can you iterate his stance on the kilkenny Flood Relief Scheme.
    I don't remember any pickets against that!

    I honestly don't know the facts to argue his stance on that topci so will have to refrain. Sorry


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    #1085
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    I honestly don't know the facts to argue his stance on that topci so will have to refrain. Sorry

    Thank you for your rationality. In my opinion the best thing that has happened the river enviroment in Kilkenny city is the closure of the pollutive brewery, the PCB contamination is just one legacy.

    I've even recently seen an otter around the new bridge works, something I never saw when the brewery was in full production.


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    #1086
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    I've even recently seen an otter around the new bridge works, something I never saw when the brewery was in full production.

    That guy has been around for years. Seen him a number of times over the years.


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    #1087
    pegasus1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭pegasus1


    catbear wrote: »
    I've even recently seen an otter around the new bridge works, something I never saw when the brewery was in full production.
    I have also seen an otter in the duck pond, at the castle park..


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    #1088
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    That guy has been around for years. Seen him a number of times over the years.
    I fished the river all my youth upstream of the brewery and I never saw an otter in that time, didn't see cranes either and they're the ultimate connisuer of clean water.

    The river used to be treated as a tip.


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    #1089
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    catbear wrote: »
    I fished the river all my youth upstream of the brewery and I never saw an otter in that time, didn't see cranes either and they're the ultimate connisuer of clean water.

    The river used to be treated as a tip.

    Kilkenny really needs to open itself the hell up to the Nore. It's a fantastic river flowing right through the city centre and basically nothing is made of it, just build high stone walls around it. That new pedestrian bridge is a very small start but I hope the new brewery developments will make the Nore a focus rather than an inconvenience.


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    #1090
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    road_high wrote: »
    Kilkenny really needs to open itself the hell up to the Nore. It's a fantastic river flowing right through the city centre and basically nothing is made of it, just build high stone walls around it. That new pedestrian bridge is a very small start but I hope the new brewery developments will make the Nore a focus rather than an inconvenience.

    Good point the is dart bridge is another good start but we need more pedestrian bridges. Another one down canal walk would be great for pedestrians and cyclists.


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    #1091
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    kikel wrote: »
    Good point the is dart bridge is another good start but we need more pedestrian bridges. Another one down canal walk would be great for pedestrians and cyclists.

    I'd love to see the Market Yard all redeveloped too as an ugly surface car park is a chronic waste of this site and space.


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    #1092
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    road_high wrote: »
    I'd love to see the Market Yard all redeveloped too as an ugly surface car park is a chronic waste of this site and space.

    To be fair, no matter what you put in there, people are still going to have a moan about it.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #1093
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    catbear wrote: »
    The river used to be treated as a tip.

    As were pretty much every river in Ireland,
    For example the Kings River in Callan had raw sewage flowing right into it at the bridge until around 1998/1999.

    The council did a job on it to pump it down into a pump house 100metres away so it would go to the sewage works back then but the sewage is still leaking into the river from the outlet as I type this and you can smell it when standing at the bridge as well.


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    #1094
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Kilkenny CoCo respond to the McDonald piece.
    A chara, – Further to Frank McDonald’s article on the new bridge currently under construction in Kilkenny (“Kilkenny is a city divided over bridge and access scheme”, Opinion & Analysis, August 5th), Frank is untypically wrong on some points. The former county manager did not opt for early retirement; he reached the end of his seven-year contract. The risk of councillors being personally surcharged, as suggested in the article, was removed in June 2014. At no point has Kilkenny County Council stated that traffic on Dean Street would reduce by 20 per cent.
    There's more:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/kilkenny-s-new-bridge-1.2311370


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    #1095
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Kilkenny CoCo respond to the McDonald piece.

    There's more:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/kilkenny-s-new-bridge-1.2311370

    And they didn't feel the need to respond to why this decision was made before he left office.

    Both Joe Crockett and John Mullholland pushed through big decisions before leaving office. I think that is very strange.


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    #1096
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    And they didn't feel the need to respond to why this decision was made before he left office.

    Both Joe Crockett and John Mullholland pushed through big decisions before leaving office. I think that is very strange.

    Why should mud slinging be respected? I'm all for a bridge further up the river yet when I attended the public consultation for kcas there were no protests yet when works start suddenly there's an angry mob. Where the f**k were they when it mattered?
    The whole kcas protest just seems like a fad easily led by cranks who'll just dump it for the next cause of the day.
    Where were the protesters in 08, too busy buying investment properties in countries they'd never visited?


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    #1097
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Bravo Catbear, well said, I still maintain you should be on the council


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    #1098
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Why should mud slinging be respected? I'm all for a bridge further up the river yet when I attended the public consultation for kcas there were no protests yet when works start suddenly there's an angry mob. Where the f**k were they when it mattered?
    The whole kcas protest just seems like a fad easily led by cranks who'll just dump it for the next cause of the day.
    Where were the protesters in 08, too busy buying investment properties in countries they'd never visited?

    I never said mud slinging should be respected. I am questioning why 2 men both leaving office pushed through decision that have big effects on the future of Kilkenny. We have to question authority in this country if we don't we will end up in same sorry mess again.

    The consultation process is a joke from what I've seen of the brewery one. The publics opinion doesn't count. It a pointless exercise.


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    #1099
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    The consultation process is a joke from what I've seen of the brewery one. The publics opinion doesn't count. It a pointless exercise.
    Could you please elucidate how the brewery consultation is supposed to work?


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    #1100
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Could you please elucidate how the brewery consultation is supposed to work?

    The brewery consultation was an ineffective consultation. It was done due to obligation/show and the people who participated were not part of the decision making. It's a shame as the ideas in the room were really amazing.


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    #1101
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    The brewery consultation was an ineffective consultation. It was done due to obligation/show and the people who participated were not part of the decision making. It's a shame as the ideas in the room were really amazing.
    Did those who proposed those amazing ideas provide costings and how they were to be funded?
    I have a great idea for a lifestyle I'd love to live but I can't possibly fund it without robbing a lot of banks!


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    #1102
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    catbear wrote: »
    Did those who proposed those amazing ideas provide costings and how they were to be funded?
    I have a great idea for a lifestyle I'd love to live but I can't possibly fund it without robbing a lot of banks!

    My thoughts exactly. No doubt loads of hairy fairy nicey nice ideas to turn the area into parklands and playgrounds (fairly typical Kilkenny left wing stuff in other words)...
    The Council are employing the correct strategy here. What Kilkenny needs is hard core investment underpinned by the private sector. The brewery site is a perfect opportunity to bring a mix of new investments into an old site in the city centre. There is room for some green space and the like, but this development has to be commercially driven or else it's going nowhere.


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    #1103
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Did those who proposed those amazing ideas provide costings and how they were to be funded?
    I have a great idea for a lifestyle I'd love to live but I can't possibly fund it without robbing a lot of banks!

    I'll take it you weren't at the consultation then. A pity. Most ideas are around lifestyle choices, cycling, mixed developments rather than throw a small development on th greens bridge side of the cas, separated by a large road. These don't require big investment but do help to make a better city for its citizens.

    Suggesting participants should provide costings is childish really. The people need to have their say. It's the councils job to listen, provide options, not come up with plan, offer consultation not listen to citizens as their original plan us best in their opinion. That happened with the cas where people campaigned for years before project started to rethink the project and then joe cricket sign letter of intent before local elections.


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    #1104
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    road_high wrote: »
    My thoughts exactly. No doubt loads of hairy fairy nicey nice ideas to turn the area into parklands and playgrounds (fairly typical Kilkenny left wing stuff in other words)...

    So you weren't at the consultation either.


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    #1105
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    I'll take it you weren't at the consultation then. A pity. Most ideas are around lifestyle choices, cycling, mixed developments rather than throw a small development on th greens bridge side of the cas, separated by a large road. These don't require big investment but do help to make a better city for its citizens.
    It's true, I wasn't at that consultation but I was at severals days of the original KCAS public consultation and oral hearings in the Ormonde hotel at which there were no protesters.

    The area you mention between KCAS and Greensbridge was only annexed by the brewery in the 80s and is only a small part of the overall site. So what were the wonderful proposals you mentioned for the rest of the brewery site, how much were they going to cost and how were they to be funded?


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    #1106
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    It's true, I wasn't at that consultation but I was at severals days of the original KCAS public consultation and oral hearings in the Ormonde hotel at which there were no protesters.

    The area you mention between KCAS and Greensbridge was only annexed by the brewery in the 80s and is only a small part of the overall site. So what were the wonderful proposals you mentioned for the rest of the brewery site, how much were they going to cost and how were they to be funded?

    I'll say it again, it's not my job or other citizens to price any proposed development. Pushing that point is just silly. I'm not qualified.


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    #1107
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    We
    kikel wrote: »
    I'll say it again, it's not my job or other citizens to price any proposed development. Pushing that point is just silly. I'm not qualified.
    You seemed qualified enough to dismiss public consultations. What's your specialty, protests?
    Not knowing costing didn't stop kcas protests from running up a huge security bill, that money would be better spent on the new library.


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    #1108
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    We
    You seemed qualified enough to dismiss public consultations. What's your specialty, protests?
    Not knowing costing didn't stop kcas protests from running up a huge security bill, that money would be better spent on the new library.

    Your just waffling now, moving from point to point. Why now bring security costings into this when we are discussing you beliving that citizens should have a team of architects, town planners, quantity surveyors when attending a public consultation to have costing when contributing to the future vision of Kilkenny.

    If you and others believe that well this country is screwed and public consultations are pointless.

    Public consultations are meant to be an opertunity for all to be involved in the decision making of the future of our city.


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    #1109
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Isn't it difficult to give an opinion as to the future development of the brewery site, what does Kilkenny need or better still afford, whatever needs to be practical not something dreamed up by the arty farty art crowd, I honestly feel unable to add to the thread, apart from suggesting the new bridge is call The foxcoverteddy Bridge.
    Have a nice super day Foxy


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    #1110
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    foxcoverteddy wrote: »
    whatever needs to be practical not something dreamed up by the arty farty art crowd,

    It's a lot of the Arty Farty crowd that make Kilkenny. It's them mixed with a commerical nature that has led to so many festivals in the city.

    Everyone in this city has to have their voice heard I don;t know why you speak so poorly of your fellow citizens of county kilkenny.


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    #1111
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »

    If you and others believe that well this country is screwed and public consultations are pointless.

    Public consultations are meant to be an opertunity for all to be involved in the decision making of the future of our city.
    you're the one who said the public consultation was pointless! Seriously back up and reread what you wrote.

    Despite the protesters insistence public consultations are not just about confrontation.

    Ideas may be proposed at these consultations but did anyone with these wonderful amazing ideas follow them through with organising a collective for making a submission for their proposals or did everyone just f**k off to the pub or where ever for a bitch and a moan?


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