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Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

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    #1112
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    you're the one who said the public consultation was pointless! Seriously back up and reread what you wrote.

    I'll admit I'm not sure what point i was making there.
    catbear wrote: »
    Despite the protesters insistence public consultations are not just about confrontation.

    Can you explain what you mean here?
    catbear wrote: »
    Ideas may be proposed at these consultations but did anyone with these wonderful amazing ideas follow them through with organising a collective for making a submission for their proposals or did everyone just f**k off to the pub or where ever for a bitch and a moan?

    Nobody f**ked of to the pub to bitch and moan. They attened the public consultation to have their ideas heard. A public consultation is a submission, The ideas are all brought together from the public and presented to the council.


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    #1113
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    Nobody f**ked of to the pub to bitch and moan. They attened the public consultation to have their ideas heard. A public consultation is a submission, The ideas are all brought together from the public and presented to the council.
    Being heard is all you think is needed! That's so lazy!

    You might overlook The Tidy Towns Committee when you laud the arts scene but they worked for decades with no funding to make Kilkenny a better place.

    You have to get out there, engage with the public like they did, persuade them of a vision and keep with it.

    Pissing and moaning about the council not pushing your initiatives is just reductive.


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    #1114
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Being heard is all you think is needed! That's so lazy!

    You might overlook The Tidy Towns Committee when you laud the arts scene but they worked for decades with no funding to make Kilkenny a better place.

    You have to get out there, engage with the public like they did, persuade them of a vision and keep with it.

    Pissing and moaning about the council not pushing your initiatives is just reductive.

    Your constant referring to pissing and moaning is getting really tiresome. People engage with a public consultation and you still think people are complainers.

    The public consultation process is there for the public to make a submission as a whole. To allow them be part of the decision making process.


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    #1115
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    Your constant referring to pissing and moaning is getting really tiresome. People engage with a public consultation and you still think people are complainers.

    The public consultation process is there for the public to make a submission as a whole. To allow them be part of the decision making process.
    You are the one who wrote off the public consultation and have offered only objections.

    You think funding is not your problem because you say you're unqualified. Does someone wipe your bum for you?


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    #1116
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    You are the one who wrote off the public consultation and have offered only objections.

    You think funding is not your problem because you say you're unqualified. Does someone wipe your bum for you?

    U really got the wrong end of the stick today.

    How do you know I only offered objections? You never ask what part I agree with.

    I never said funding wasn't my problem. I said I'm unqualified to cost such a project. I don't have that experience.

    You referred to me as lazy, complainer and asked do I have someone to wipe my bum. Your getting a little intolerable today with some comments.


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    #1117
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »

    You never ask what part I agree with.
    I've asked you a few times now to cite some of the wonderful ideas that you report were offered at that meeting.
    kikel wrote: »
    The brewery consultation was an ineffective consultation. It was done due to obligation/show and the people who participated were not part of the decision making. It's a shame as the ideas in the room were really amazing.
    You still haven't explicated one of these "really amazing" ideas.

    You allude to one suggestion that you intimated was lacking, can you explain why you mentioned that but not the " really amazing ideas"?
    kikel wrote: »
    Most ideas are around lifestyle choices, cycling, mixed developments rather than throw a small development on th greens bridge side of the cas, separated by a large road.

    I'm all ears for something constructive but you're the one chickening out with the "i'm not qualified" refrain.

    If you not qualified to open your mouth then why did you go to the meeting, to hold a placard?

    As you said yourself:
    kikel wrote: »
    The consultation process is a joke from what I've seen of the brewery one. The publics opinion doesn't count. It a pointless exercise.

    You say you're not qualified to make submissions to the process but qualified enough to dismiss it entirely.

    The only thing you've given is obstinate opposition.


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    #1118
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    I've asked you a few times now to cite some of the wonderful ideas that you report were offered at that meeting.

    You still haven't explicated one of these "really amazing" ideas.

    You allude to one suggestion that you intimated was lacking, can you explain why you mentioned that but not the " really amazing ideas"?


    I'm all ears for something constructive but you're the one chickening out with the "i'm not qualified" refrain.

    If you not qualified to open your mouth then why did you go to the meeting, to hold a placard?

    As you said yourself:


    You say you're not qualified to make submissions to the process but qualified enough to dismiss it entirely.

    The only thing you've given is obstinate opposition.

    You are saying I should submit costings and funding requirements to develop the brewery site. I'm not qualified or do I have the resources. Most citizens don't. Please be reasonable and understand this. I am a citizen of Kilkenny and took part in a public consultation which is a submission to the council. So yes I did submit as part of a collective group.

    I think part of the councils plan is good for the brewery site, I think some of the ideas from the public which were put forward and had strong support should of been listened to.

    I think the councils way of pushing this forward is flawed as the plan is more or less the original plan without any alterations that the public wanted.

    If you want me to go through a list of what was good in the public consultation you'll have to wait to next week as I promise you it'll lead to big debate.


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    #1119
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    One minute you're saying
    kikel wrote: »
    The consultation process is a joke from what I've seen of the brewery one. The publics opinion doesn't count. It a pointless exercise.

    but then you're saying.......
    kikel wrote: »
    If you want me to go through a list of what was good in the public consultation you'll have to wait to next week as I promise you it'll lead to big debate.
    Just more prevarication whilst maintaining indignant intransigence.

    Can't wait to see what new protest signs you'll have for us next week, i hear OXI is all the rage these days!

    black-tom-polishing-claws.gif
    Yawn.


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    #1120
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    One minute you're saying


    but then you're saying.......


    Just more prevarication whilst maintaining indignant intransigence.

    Can't wait to see what new protest signs you'll have for us next week, i hear OXI is all the rage these days!

    black-tom-polishing-claws.gif
    Yawn.

    I give up. You are asking me to point out what i thought were good ideas in the public consultation I felt willing to go through it in detail next week when i have time. You just trying to rise me with your comments about protest signs, lazy, moaning.


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    #1121
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Will all this upheaval get rid of the one way traffic scheme at Kennyswell and stop HGV's using the road, and how will the ambulances get out fast for an emergency if the whole area is clogged up with trucks etc, equally will one be able to drive into the city by way of Irish Town? Just enquiring, Foxy


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    #1122
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    road_high wrote: »
    My thoughts exactly. No doubt loads of hairy fairy nicey nice ideas to turn the area into parklands and playgrounds (fairly typical Kilkenny left wing stuff in other words)...
    The Council are employing the correct strategy here. What Kilkenny needs is hard core investment underpinned by the private sector. The brewery site is a perfect opportunity to bring a mix of new investments into an old site in the city centre. There is room for some green space and the like, but this development has to be commercially driven or else it's going nowhere.

    Having a park is leftwing?
    Thankfully people didn't think in such an odd way as yours when many of the great parks were created around the world


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    #1123
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Do I take it that the towel has been thrown in on this one? Apart from the bitching which serves no purpose whatsoever. One presumes people like Crockett can just walk away. Is it not time that a legal process was enacted that stopped county Managers signing off major works just before they leave office. If sufficient officials had the guts to stand up and be counted or was it political motivation.
    If the elected reps sit down and do nothing to protect the city, do we need them.
    What will happen with the St francis abbey site, we get lumbered with two bridges of definitely out of character design, is the footbridge an asset? Perhaps action before the site is lost.


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    #1124
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    foxcoverteddy wrote: »
    . One presumes people like Crockett can just walk away. Is it not time that a legal process was enacted that stopped county Managers signing off major works just before they leave office.
    .
    1 People are entitled to leave their job when their contracted expires.
    2 ridiculous suggestion, all major works including essential services being suspended to appease a bunch of hysterics.


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    #1125
    Rantan
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭Rantan


    ...Bunch of hysterics...?? How insulting and rude...I suppose in your world order someone with any concern for either heritage or the environment is just crazy?


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    #1126
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    Rantan wrote: »
    ...Bunch of hysterics...?? How insulting and rude...I suppose in your world order someone with any concern for either heritage or the environment is just crazy?

    Move on Rantan, it's a touchy subject with cat bear. He doesn't really mean it.


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    #1127
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Rantan wrote: »
    ...Bunch of hysterics...?? How insulting and rude...I suppose in your world order someone with any concern for either heritage or the environment is just crazy?
    Explain to me exactly what heritage has been impacted? I need you to be absolutely specific as everyone knows you can't throw a stone in this town without hitting something historic.

    Also can you also explain how this project is environmentally impacting the river to a greater extent than the flood relief project? Again I need specifics.


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    #1128
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    I give up. You are asking me to point out what i thought were good ideas in the public consultation I felt willing to go through it in detail next week when i have time. You just trying to rise me with your comments about protest signs, lazy, moaning.
    You wanted a week and you've had a week to disprove my impression of you as an equivocator.


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    #1129
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    You wanted a week and you've had a week to disprove my impression of you as an equivocator.

    As I said in my post last week. "I give up" you weren't very nice last week.


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    #1130
    Rantan
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭Rantan


    catbear wrote:
    Explain to me exactly what heritage has been impacted? I need you to be absolutely specific as everyone knows you can't throw a stone in this town without hitting something historic.


    I was making a point about you and your attitude towards people with concern for heritage and environment. I didnt even refer to CAS. Based on my post i dont have to justify any arguments for or against the project to you. My concerns are heritage based and not environmental. To be honest, I don't even think the scheme is having a serious effect on the river. But I will not lower myself to ridicule and insult other people who do have genuine concern for the river. You would not accept or even consider any of the heritage concerns which i could present so can you tell me why I should even bother?


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    #1131
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    As I said in my post last week. "I give up" you weren't very nice last week.
    I've repeatedly requested you to expound on the wonderful ideas you said were proffered at the public consultation that you called a joke. (do you need me to quote your own words for you again?)

    I do not understand how asking someone to explain ideas that they laud as wonderful as being offensive, if that's what you meant by "not being nice".

    You have the right to be offended by the wind or whatever you imagine but I'm still no wiser to these wonderful ideas you spoke of; I'm beginning to suspect that there were no wonderful ideas and you are just being maliciously misleading to the common good.

    The value of a good idea should be apparent so I fail to see how someone like you who can read and write can fail to explain ideas that you have so freely appraised as "good"?


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    #1132
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    I've repeatedly requested you to expound on the wonderful ideas you said were proffered at the public consultation that you called a joke. (do you need me to quote your own words for you again?)

    I do not understand how asking someone to explain ideas that they laud as wonderful as being offensive, if that's what you meant by "not being nice".

    You have the right to be offended by the wind or whatever you imagine but I'm still no wiser to these wonderful ideas you spoke of; I'm beginning to suspect that there were no wonderful ideas and you are just being maliciously misleading to the common good.

    The value of a good idea should be apparent so I fail to see how someone like you who can read and write can fail to explain ideas that you have so freely appraised as "good"?

    Boards is all meant to be about debate. Your comments about people wiping my bum etc, etc, etc are not part of a debate I want to have with you.

    I feel you are a good contributer around here and I value reading your posts but in the situation I refraining from any debate as I see your post are just stirring things up for no reason at all.


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    #1133
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »

    I feel you are a good contributer around here and I value reading your posts but in the situation I refraining from any debate as I see your post are just stirring things up for no reason at all.
    You called the public consultation process a joke and if that's not stirring things up then i suggest you spend time close to an agitator in the sewage plant near Purcelsinch.

    Although judging from your contribution to this debate I doubt you'll notice anything new there.

    If you deign to truly bring something to the debate then how about illuminating for me some of these mythical ideas from the public consultation process you so freely dismissed?


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    #1134
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Now my friends, we are a very small band of dedicated poster's who may or may not have anyone take notice of what we post so, here goes.
    I do not belong to either those in favour or those against, middle of the road type, as far as I can gather the main criticism is that the ring road should be completed first, this would take traffic from the city environment. The CAS I gather will do nothing to reduce traffic levels in the city, to make matters worse this road goes from A to B and at the moment no one seems able to reason why. It seems from what I read the Kennyswell Bridge remains with the stupid one way traffic scheme and the residents with their own traffic lights in the front garden.
    Someone said about the hysterical goings on of those against, well it appears that there was considerable dissent as to the value of the project which our County Manager poo pooed and our elected representatives supported whether this was genuine belief or toadying at it's worst, but we come to the point what does the ordinary citizens do when officialdom ignores the situation. It seems the water charges dissenters are having a running battle and they are not called hysterical, some of us have been paying water charges for decades, okay we have our own wells but the upkeep surmounts the sum being requested from these people.
    Now Catbear is a person whose opinion I respect he appears to come from a legal point of view and in my opinion would make a superb member of the council in Kilkenny if not the Dail, he rightly told me that the County Manager could do what he wanted up to the time his contract expires; I agree and my thinking was that this man has gone away leaving us with a bridge that apparently we do not need, the project being signed off at the very end of his contract, I was suggesting that the terms should be changed to stop future Managers being able to sign off pet projects. Successive governments can drop projects agreed prior to their election, why did the bridge project have to go ahead?
    Kilkenny is a tourist city and needs a very special person to take control, I reckon some of my friends are more than capable, aren't you, well I am off to the High St Mall, a quick cuppa and see you there tra Foxy


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    #1135
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    The central span between the two supports in the river was laid today. Looking up from the pedestrian bridge it didn't look bad really.


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    #1136
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »
    Nice to see it take shape. Have to admire the engineering.

    Initial impressions are that it's not as bad as the hysterics had us believe? Nice stonework and blending in at Wolfe Tone st.


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    #1137
    Dymo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Dymo


    road_high wrote: »
    hysterics had us believe?

    That's what I thought a lot of it was.


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    #1138
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    But maybe if it wasn't for the hysterics and concerned interest we wouldn't get the extra effort put in from the planners/designers /builders.
    We are only now seeing the crap that was build during the boom when everyone had their eye off the ball.


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    #1139
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    hi5 wrote: »
    But maybe if it wasn't for the hysterics and concerned interest we wouldn't get the extra effort put in from the planners/designers /builders.
    We are only now seeing the crap that was build during the boom when everyone had their eye off the ball.
    Well judging by the picture from their webpage, SaveKilkenny certainly didn't have anything to do with the design, it seems they grossly exaggerated the width of the bridge.
    casyellow.jpg
    I am glad though the single span cantilever design was dropped, starchitecture is superfluous when a simple design is well executed. I'm sure the builders of Greensbridge had utility as their main concern, the little Palladian flourishes only augment the design but ultimately its beauty is in its simplicity.

    Speaking of Greensbridge it will far easier to appreciate it from the new bridge.


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    #1140
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    catbear wrote: »
    Speaking of Greensbridge it will far easier to appreciate it from the new bridge.

    Would look a sight bit nicer if the council finished the "restoration works" they started on it in the 1960's, of course thats not going to happen because they sold lost the stones they removed from it.


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    #1141
    Irishlad2014
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Irishlad2014


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Waterford also has a far far weaker tourist industry when compared to Kilkenny and it always has done, up until the very recent viking triangle Waterford has always depended on the glass factory to bring in tourists and they were usually day trips that hardly visited the city.

    Id love to know where you are getting your figures as it is most certainly not from the published failte ireland report on regional tourism.

    http://www.failteireland.ie/Research-Insights/Regional-Statistics-and-Reports.aspx


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