Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

foxcoverteddy

Now that is something perhaps you will think on about: you will notice I do not mention the store by name; mainly because I have no wish to upset our "Mod", but I believe our mart site is earmarked for a possible flagship store.
Like Bulmer's only time.
At the moment I am wondering what to wear for the grand opening.
Take care Foxy

linny

hopefully this is not going to delay this for too long
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/eu-to-investigate-vicar-street-cas-demolition-1-5545622
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/council-rejects-vicar-street-claims-1-5545448 here here

and without this bridge we can kiss goodbye to the mart site been developed it was turned down before because the link road wasn't done and the Smithwicks site will just sit there for years to come,
and this http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/uni-for-south-east-with-city-hub-1-5545387 kiss it goodbye also

nootroc

Does the mart site come under the umbrella of 'city centre development'?

Where will the entrance to the mart site from the Castlecomer direction be and will it involve a new roundabout beside the existing one?

foxcoverteddy

I can see your point, indeed an opportunity we should not miss, but it occurred to me has anyone thought of building a tunnel under the Nore?

kikel

nootroc wrote: »

Where will the entrance to the mart site from the Castlecomer direction be and will it involve a new roundabout beside the existing one?

This shows the route of the CAS.

http://www.kilkennycity.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/Figure%209.1.pdf

redtelephone

kikel wrote: »

This shows the route of the CAS.

http://www.kilkennycity.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/Figure%209.1.pdf

There's no roundabout shown where the CAS breaks out on to the Comer Road which seems a bit odd. When you look at the CAS on that map, you really get the feeling that it has no purpose other than opening up the mart site. Otherwise it's just a bypass for Vicar St / Green's Bridge. So why is it more urgent than finishing the Ring road?:eek:

linny

maybe traffic lights

redtelephone

linny wrote: »

maybe traffic lights

Traffic lights, great

Captain Havoc

redtelephone wrote: »

Traffic lights, great

Traffic lights are the work of the devil and should be outlawed, roundabouts FTW.

Doff

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Traffic lights are the work of the devil and should be outlawed, roundabouts FTW.

At least the concept of traffic lights are easier for some people to understand. I see at least 4-5 near misses on the mini roundabout at Hotel Kilkenny a week. At least 90% of them are down to no indicators and the other 10% is just people who struggle to grasp the concept of a roundabout.

I know what you mean though some of the lights in this town are ridiculous, ie: kennyswell :mad:

foxcoverteddy

I thought the pretty blue line was the river, isn't it normal to have blue water, then we looked for the train line/s, couldn't see them, a lot of expansion to the north, tbh can't really see the point of the CAS.
The ring road sort of peter's out, in fact I found the map confusing.
When I sorted out the brewery site, it seems to be dragging traffic into Irishtown when it should be the other way round.
The Kennyswell road, thank god there are traffic lights it only takes one vehicle, they spent a lot of time re-doing the bridge, road closed etc.
Traffic lights are a killer, Market Cross would drive you mad.
Well going to get out my city map and do a study.
Goodnight Foxy

Doff

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

The Kennyswell road, thank god there are traffic lights it only takes one vehicle, they spent a lot of time re-doing the bridge, road closed etc.

Never said they shouldn't be their. I've often spent 5+ minutes at them with no oncoming traffic at night.

Captain Havoc

Doff wrote: »

Never said they shouldn't be their. I've often spent 5+ minutes at them with no oncoming traffic at night.

It supposed to sense the weight of the car and then change, this does not work for bicycles, neither does turning right onto High St. on the Parade, turning right onto John's Green at MacDonagh, lights won't change from John's Green onto the Comer Road and there's possibly others.

foxcoverteddy

I know you didn't, we sat behind a guy for ten minutes he would not get close enough to the sensor to pick him up, there should not be that much traffic to be honest.

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/kilenny-houses-1110381-Oct2013/

EU to investigate Kilkenny plans to demolish ‘heritage houses’ for new roadway
A local group has said that there is a medieval gable wall at one of the houses but the council said there is not yet sufficient evidence of this.

Rantan

I was just reading through the revised EIA for the CAS - the bridge design was completely altered in 2011 from the cable stay version to a much better pier supported structure with a much lower profile.
Not that I have changed my overall opinion that this is still wrong but the revised bridge does appear to sit better in the environment then the cable stay bridge...saying that the new points of view are from the peace park and not from Johns Bridge so you dont get an over all impression of its relationshio with its surroundings.

find it here:

http://www.kilkennycity.ie/resources/eng/Services/Roads/Roads%20Projects/Central%20Access%20Scheme/Volume_1_Non_Technical_Summary.pdf

foxcoverteddy

Well done that person, you obviously read the report, note, carefully the bridge will facilitate Buses and Coaches coming in to the historic city, yes coming up parliament street, will they then get stuck on the hump by keiron st, and seeing it is not that wide by James street, there will be no problems with hold ups.
Now what is the difference between buses and coaches, a bus I presume is a service vehicle, but we do not have a service bus come up the high st, where is the bus stop going to be.
Lunch time thoughts Foxy.
I demand a referendum

S28382

I dont think this development is going to kill the town, its a step forward just because KK has a medieval castle doesnt mean it needs to stay in the dark ages. It wont be that bad folks take a look at Waterford which is an even older City than KK and it keeps developing, the tourists keep coming the city for the most part looks well with the old and new. I agree the Ring Road would be a good choice to finish off but in all fairness the noises of doom coming from the no side is a bit exaggerated.

Rantan

S28382 wrote: »

I dont think this development is going to kill the town, its a step forward just because KK has a medieval castle doesnt mean it needs to stay in the dark ages. It wont be that bad folks take a look at Waterford which is an even older City than KK and it keeps developing, the tourists keep coming the city for the most part looks well with the old and new. I agree the Ring Road would be a good choice to finish off but in all fairness the noises of doom coming from the no side is a bit exaggerated.

personally I think kilkenny is a far more attractive town than waterford....and in all fairness theres more to KK than just the castle, and it has probably managed to retain more of its medieval fabric than waterford...... Why do development and progress absolutely have to necesitate the demolition of parts of our culture, heritage and identity that cannot be replaced? Once they are gone they are gone forever and something more that just a pile of stone is lost each time another piece is demolished or alterred. I dont understand this develpmoent must = destruction theory. It is possible for devlopment and heritage to co-exist - if the will and imagination exists to bother making the effort..sadly that will is missing in this particular case......sorry that post sounds a bit Jerry Maguire but its what i believe!

nootroc

So between the traffic lights at John Street and the roundabout at New Road there will be a roundabout and 2 sets of traffic lights. Delightful

foxcoverteddy

Hi, Kilkenny is a vibrant city, tourists flock here, I think you have great vision S2382, whilst I see your view, I do not go along with the Waterford thing, the city is deteriorating, the quay is a mis-mash of past times and modernistic; the shopping centre is almost non existent compared to our city, they have nev er really succeeded matching old and new; in fact very few City managers achieve this.
We are led to believe this one or that one knows what they are doing, trial and error with our money; go to Chester it is far from dead or in the past, the modernistic has been kept well away from the tourist earning part; try York the Shambles is sort of sacrosanct, the Brighton Lanes, keep your old.
At sometime someone must have said that about the an post building it is the new age; it is sticking out like a sore thumb, parts of the High St aren't too bad or Parliament st and of course Mayors Walk.
But your v ision will help to decide the future of Kilkenny, you care enough to put it in writing, well done and at least my thanks
Happy bunny Foxy

catbear

S28382 wrote: »

I dont think this development is going to kill the town, its a step forward just because KK has a medieval castle doesnt mean it needs to stay in the dark ages. It wont be that bad folks take a look at Waterford which is an even older City than KK and it keeps developing, the tourists keep coming the city for the most part looks well with the old and new. I agree the Ring Road would be a good choice to finish off but in all fairness the noises of doom coming from the no side is a bit exaggerated.

Without any heritage/cultural concerns there is clearly a better traffic alternative in completion of the ringroad.

S28382

Rantan wrote: »

personally I think kilkenny is a far more attractive town than waterford....and in all fairness theres more to KK than just the castle, and it has probably managed to retain more of its medieval fabric than waterford...... Why do development and progress absolutely have to necesitate the demolition of parts of our culture, heritage and identity that cannot be replaced? Once they are gone they are gone forever and something more that just a pile of stone is lost each time another piece is demolished or alterred. I dont understand this develpmoent must = destruction theory. It is possible for devlopment and heritage to co-exist - if the will and imagination exists to bother making the effort..sadly that will is missing in this particular case......sorry that post sounds a bit Jerry Maguire but its what i believe!

catbear wrote: »

Without any heritage/cultural concerns there is clearly a better traffic alternative in completion of the ringroad.

I agree about KK being nicer than WF im a WF native living in KK for around 4 yrs and i love it here its a lovely place to live.

Waterford by far has retained more medieval history than KK and to be fair i dont think that can be disputed go down to Waterford and the council have spent millions on the very popular Viking Triangle, the old walls around the city which are well preserved, Reginalds Tower which at the moment is being surrounded with works on a new restaurant/bar aimed at the tourist trade which is huge for Waterford.

So the old and new can co exist together and that why i dont think the CAS is going to be detrimental to KK in fact i think it will improve an already nice town.

Rantan

S28382 wrote: »

I agree about KK being nicer than WF im a WF native living in KK for around 4 yrs and i love it here its a lovely place to live.

Waterford by far has retained more medieval history than KK and to be fair i dont think that can be disputed go down to Waterford and the council have spent millions on the very popular Viking Triangle, the old walls around the city which are well preserved, Reginalds Tower which at the moment is being surrounded with works on a new restaurant/bar aimed at the tourist trade which is huge for Waterford.

So the old and new can co exist together and that why i dont think the CAS is going to be detrimental to KK in fact i think it will improve an already nice town.

being honest I based my comments on my experience of WD from the 80's and 90's when it was probably a very different place - I havent really spent any time in the city in some years so am obviously out of date - I love county waterford though - I have had a few great weekends in dungarvan - its a nice place to spend a coupe of easy days, some nice bars/restauranuts(sorry..off thread here)

S28382

Rantan wrote: »

being honest I based my comments on my experience of WD from the 80's and 90's when it was probably a very different place - I havent really spent any time in the city in some years so am obviously out of date - I love county waterford though - I have had a few great weekends in dungarvan - its a nice place to spend a coupe of easy days, some nice bars/restauranuts(sorry..off thread here)

Yeah WF has changed alot its a nice place and its a shame it has been battered by the downfall of the country.

County Waterford is lovely the coastline is beautiful my childhood summers were spent touring the coast going from beach to beach.

To get back on topic tho i do think the completion of the Ring Road is maybe the better option but at the same time the CAS isnt going to kill the town. There are many places where a bit of new is good for the bit of old and maybe in KK this is the case.

But hey im a blow in so maybe i dont get the right to have a say.

foxcoverteddy

I think the love and care of our city is more important than whether you are from the area or elsewhere; I think the mention of Dungarvan sums up this whole argument; they have managed to combine the old and new so that neither clash with each other.
I read our council is going ahead with knocking the cottages, irrespective of the EU, now there is true democracy for you, our senior TD has thrown his weight in with the council, it is irrelevant whether the CAS is beneficial or not to Kilkenny, when a body such as the council takes the high view, when in this game they are minnows, it makes one wonder if the possible anchor tenant of the mart is putting pressure on council member's.
The CAS is not diverting heavy traffic from inner city roads, so who is the main beneficiary from the spending of our money?
Of course there is a need for another crossing, it is also obvious we do not need heavy transport lumbering through the city.
Kilkenny is a tourist city; we expect the council to do everything to enhance the cities appeal

Rantan

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

I think the love and care of our city is more important than whether you are from the area or elsewhere; I think the mention of Dungarvan sums up this whole argument; they have managed to combine the old and new so that neither clash with each other.
I read our council is going ahead with knocking the cottages, irrespective of the EU, now there is true democracy for you, our senior TD has thrown his weight in with the council, it is irrelevant whether the CAS is beneficial or not to Kilkenny, when a body such as the council takes the high view, when in this game they are minnows, it makes one wonder if the possible anchor tenant of the mart is putting pressure on council member's.
The CAS is not diverting heavy traffic from inner city roads, so who is the main beneficiary from the spending of our money?
Of course there is a need for another crossing, it is also obvious we do not need heavy transport lumbering through the city.
Kilkenny is a tourist city; we expect the council to do everything to enhance the cities appeal

I wonder is this the realy point ?? do our masters in th Co Co really care about that? - Are they trying to re-invent KK as something else coz the tourist detaination image is not good enough for them?? i have spent a bit of time in Edinburgh recently and think its one of the best city's in this part of the world - I really love the buzz in the place and the feel of the place is totally unique. I wonder what would happen if the local authorities there tried to run the equivalent of the CAS across the Royal Mile? before anyone goes off on one..I know KK is not in EDinb's league but Im just using it for comaparison...i tihnk KK does have some similarities to Edinburgh.

Rantan

S28382 wrote: »

Yeah WF has changed alot its a nice place and its a shame it has been battered by the downfall of the country.

County Waterford is lovely the coastline is beautiful my childhood summers were spent touring the coast going from beach to beach.

To get back on topic tho i do think the completion of the Ring Road is maybe the better option but at the same time the CAS isnt going to kill the town. There are many places where a bit of new is good for the bit of old and maybe in KK this is the case.

But hey im a blow in so maybe i dont get the right to have a say.

as long as you're saying good things about KK I dont care where you're from!

I thinnk most people wold agree however in this instance the location of the "bit if new" is the problem..not the actual bit of new itself !

foxcoverteddy

I got a great kick driving up Princes Street for the first time; no I am convinced if the council took the high end action they are doing they would not be in power for long.
Now having said that, on the Great West road out of London, firestone had a 1930's style building it was beautiful, someone came along and bulldozed it during the night, in the morning a heap of rubble.
You cannot replace these buildings, it matter's not if they are very old; we will not see that style of building again.
What is bugging me is where is the CAS going, yes I know the mart site, but for what reason, what traffic is being diverted? From each end will all heavy vehicles be crossing the new bridge, un-named at this time but my thoughts are wandering towards a certain TD, I will go down in history perhaps.
So if traffic is coming over the bridge from the Comer road, I presume Dean Street is going to be blocked by articulated lorries on the bend opposite the petrol station heading up to Kennyswell, geez what a calamity.
Is there a legal way to stop this nonsense from going any further, if the people of Kilkenny object to it, where is our freedom of democracy.
If you look at this from another point, maybe it is beneficial to Kilkenny, I guess if they built a viaduct right over to the Callan road it might solve a problem or two; I would think Robertsbridge might just escape, though the empty block should come down, is it true the council didn't like it, he he he.
Foxy

nootroc

All the concern over Greensbridge and they have no problem putting HGV's over the little bridge at Kilcreene after they spent months rebuilding the walls.

An FG councilor was on about the difficulty faced with bringing children to school from the northside of the city. The CAS is not going to improve the situation imho.