Sunday Game / Spillane

theoneeyedman

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Wherever you read it, you didn't read it here.

http://www.hoganstand.com/forum/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=50172

Croke Park 144m x 91m
Ballybofey Donegal 137m x 92m

So it's a meter wider than croker.....

An old chestnut of mine is sending the 'analysis' team to Thurles when the game is in Derry. They shoyld be at least at the game to see how teams actually set up

Neeson

They show dublins game before the more competitive and best game of the weekend which was the Derry down match?

Now that's rare.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Lads does anyone know what time Niall Carew got to sleep at last night?


That 5 minutes piece on the gap between the bigger and smaller teams shows exactly why Cahill is such a terrible presenter .A potentially interesting discussion was ruined by Des Cahill fixating on a non issue like Niall Carews sleeping habits rather than asking proper questions like what could be done to bridge the gap.Awful stuff from the Sunday game surely to god their are better presenters out there.

Justin10

Or maybe it was ruined by Pat Flanagen coming out with rubbish like Westmeath could beat Dublin in Cusack Park.
Instead of addressing why a promoted team to Div 1 got hammered.
The gap is there because of underage structure.

For example Kerry are seen to not have decent underage teams and people are hitting the panic button.
These smaller teams have even poorer underage structures.
Kildare are trying to invest in it, and have a few decent young lads on the team.

It really is that simple.

Dirty Dingus McGee

David Hanlon scored the penalty for Offaly not David Holden as the Sunday game said.

How difficult is it for them to check and get the players names right.Particularly when it was a voice over commentary and they would have had time to fix any errors they potentially made.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rochey18 wrote: »

Or maybe it was ruined by Pat Flanagen coming out with rubbish like Westmeath could beat Dublin in Cusack Park.
Instead of addressing why a promoted team to Div 1 got hammered.
The gap is there because of underage structure.

For example Kerry are seen to not have decent underage teams and people are hitting the panic button.
These smaller teams have even poorer underage structures.
Kildare are trying to invest in it, and have a few decent young lads on the team.

It really is that simple.

The smaller counties as Pat Flanagan said have nowhere near the finances to invest in underage structure ad the bigger counties have and it is very difficult to bridge the gap when you get to senior level.A better allocation of resources by the GAA at central level to ensure all team start on somewhat a level playing field might help things

klairondavis

Rochey18 wrote: »

Or maybe it was ruined by Pat Flanagen coming out with rubbish like Westmeath could beat Dublin in Cusack Park.
Instead of addressing why a promoted team to Div 1 got hammered.
The gap is there because of underage structure.

For example Kerry are seen to not have decent underage teams and people are hitting the panic button.
These smaller teams have even poorer underage structures.
Kildare are trying to invest in it, and have a few decent young lads on the team.

It really is that simple.

It is simple to identify the solution as investing in underage structures and you are correct with that. However, generating the financial resources to do that is far from simple.

I know Kildare have pumped serious money into the development squads at underage level but that is one of the main reasons why the county board is in poor financial shape at the moment. Counties with smaller populations and without the tradition of success in football are really going to struggle in the coming years. Sustaining the level of professionalism that's needed to compete is going to prove beyond them without the financial clout that the bigger counties can generate through sponsorship and fundraising.

Justin10

Thats a cop out, It dose not cost a fortune to invest in underage system. It takes massive dedication for example Cavan, I expect them to push on, but are not going to win any All Irelands.
Flip side is Kildare accumulating massive debt on other resources, such as their Manager.
That gap has always been there. My concern would be about Galway and Meath, who are tradionally strong counties with woeful teams at the minute.
For example Westmeath got a bigger hammering off Dublin in recent years.

Problem is also a mentality. For example Dermot Early tonight saying he didn't know what stand dressing room he would be in, which aint true.
Dublin have played outside of Croke Park top of my head 6-7 times since the qualifiers have been introduced and only time they lost was against Kerry after a replay.
Dublin would have no problem playing games outside Croke Park, but the GAA needs the funds to allocate to county boards to invest.
It comes full cycle, but for Pat Flanagen to come out with that tonight is absolute rubbish.
Again its is mentality, we cant beat Dublin in Croke Park but would in Mullingar.

klairondavis

Rochey18 wrote: »

Thats a cop out, It dose not cost a fortune to invest in underage system. It takes massive dedication for example Cavan, I expect them to push on, but are not going to win any All Irelands.
Flip side is Kildare accumulating massive debt on other resources, such as their Manager.
That gap has always been there. My concern would be about Galway and Meath, who are tradionally strong counties with woeful teams at the minute.
For example Westmeath got a bigger hammering off Dublin in recent years.

Problem is also a mentality. For example Dermot Early tonight saying he didn't know what stand dressing room he would be in, which aint true.
Dublin have played outside of Croke Park top of my head 6-7 times since the qualifiers have been introduced and only time they lost was against Kerry after a replay.
Dublin would have no problem playing games outside Croke Park, but the GAA needs the funds to allocate to county boards to invest.
It comes full cycle, but for Pat Flanagen to come out with that tonight is absolute rubbish.
Again its is mentality, we cant beat Dublin in Croke Park but would in Mullingar.

It does if you want to do it properly. The counties with large budgets can afford to appoint full time development coaches to work with clubs and schools. They all have dietitians and strength & conditioning coaches advising their development squads. These young players train in dedicated county facilities and they want for nothing as regards gear and meals etc.

That level of professionalism was not there even ten years ago and it will become increasingly difficult for the minnows to compete with that.

Justin10

I agree that for example to do it at Dublin standard costs a lot of money.
But most of these teams aint even doing it half arsed correctly.

piplin

padd b1975 wrote: »

Famous for being an attention seeking muppet, think his name is Cyril Kavanagh.

Unnecessary comment really. Life long fan who's passion for Cork is uncontrollable. He has my respect.

padd b1975

piplin wrote: »

Unnecessary comment really. Life long fan who's passion for Cork is uncontrollable. He has my respect.

His support for Cork GAA is not being questioned, it's his passion for getting his mug in front of a camera lens that irks.

Syferus

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The smaller counties as Pat Flanagan said have nowhere near the finances to invest in underage structure ad the bigger counties have and it is very difficult to bridge the gap when you get to senior level.A better allocation of resources by the GAA at central level to ensure all team start on somewhat a level playing field might help things

Money is less of an issue at underage than at senior, that's where the money bag counties pull away. Ros, Tipp and Cavan are hardly flooded with playing resources or money but they've developed highly competitive underage structures through good coaching and developing strong playing bonds by the time lads hit minor.

Fully agree that revenue splitting (at senior) is the best way to allow more counties to compete for titles.

Lemlin

Syferus wrote: »

Money is less of an issue at underage than at senior, that's where the money bag counties pull away. Ros, Tipp and Cavan are hardly flooded with playing resources or money but they've developed highly competitive underage structures through good coaching and developing strong playing bonds by the time lads hit minor.

Fully agree that revenue splitting (at senior) is the best way to allow more counties to compete for titles.

One of the big successes for Cavan has been working with larger panels. Sadly, plenty of players lose interest between U16 and senior for a variety of reasons.

Rather than working with panels of 30, Cavan have simply started working with panels of up to 45 at underage level. That means when players inevitably fall by the wayside, there are replacements readily available who have been involved.

keeponhurling

theoneeyedman wrote: »

An old chestnut of mine is sending the 'analysis' team to Thurles when the game is in Derry. They shoyld be at least at the game to see how teams actually set up

I was just thinking that yesterday alright. You're paying people handsomely to analyse the match, but they're not actually at the match!

That makes absolutely no sense to me. Big difference between being at the game and watching what the TV shows.

walrusgumble

padd b1975 wrote: »

His support for Cork GAA is not being questioned, it's his passion for getting his mug in front of a camera lens that irks.

So what?

It brings colour

You think, those people, over the years, who created really funny and rememorable Banners were not hoping to get caught on TV? (I accept that fella with John 3: 16 or whatever, has a genuine religious thing and loves GAA)

davegrohl48

Aidan O'Rourke had a good cut at the Sunday Game.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=193866
Think the jig is slowly going to be up on the format.
For instance Emmet Ryan of "Tactics not passion" had decent enough sales. A pure analysis and tactical side of Gaelic football matches/teams in 2012. So it surely shows there is an active audience out there for something better than current.
His current championship game analysis is outstanding. I won't post the link if you're interested you probably already know his blog.
What does be most interesting is when he analyses one sided games like Mayo - Galway. All you would hear on the Sunday game would be "Galway lacked Mayos hunger".
Stats have to improve as well.
- How many scores from attempts has Colm Cooper had in championship and league? We'll never know.
- What was Neil Gallaghers kickout catch rate last year?
- What was Colm McFaddens success rate from frees last year? I read in Independent i think it was a ridiculous 96%, but sure Donegal have a system. No need to search for any clues to success beyond that.
- How many misplaced passes did Karl Lacey have?
List goes on, interesting snippets and career signposts just slipping by each week.

ProudDUB

davegrohl48 wrote: »

- How many scores from attempts has Colm Cooper had in championship and league? We'll never know.
- What was Neil Gallaghers kickout catch rate last year?
- What was Colm McFaddens success rate from frees last year? I read in Independent i think it was a ridiculous 96%, but sure Donegal have a system. No need to search for any clues to success beyond that.
- How many misplaced passes did Karl Lacey have?
List goes on, interesting snippets and career signposts just slipping by each week.

I agree with this 1000%. Far, far too much for what passes for analysis these days, lacks any sort of numerical data to back it up. I am not saying that these guys should be turned into into numbers crunching robots. Nor am I saying that there should never be discussion of things that can not be measured numerically....hunger, heart, passion etc etc, but there should be a balance between the two imo.

davegrohl48

ProudDUB wrote: »

I agree with this 1000%. Far, far too much for what passes for analysis these days, lacks any sort of numerical data to back it up. I am not saying that these guys should be turned into into numbers crunching robots. Nor am I saying that there should never be discussion of things that can not be measured numerically....hunger, heart, passion etc etc, but there should be a balance between the two imo.

It would be interesting to see Colm Coopers career playing stats:
- Rarely misses when takes on a shot
- must have the highest percentage success rate for attempts for goals. It's incredible how accurate he is when he decides to take it on
- When does he ever lose posession through being tackled, bad pass to a teammate or fumble?

ProudDUB

Agreed. It would be great to see those stats not just for each individual game, but compared to other games in a season, and then compared season to season. Other sports and TV networks can do it. I don't know why the GAA and RTE can't or don't or won't. The technology out there these days makes it incredibly easy to do and keep track of.

keeponhurling

Problem is that similar to any company, or government service. The lads in the job are just too comfortable, it's too cushy, and they know regardless of what they produce they'll still be in a job regardless.

As sure as night follows day, when I tune in to watch the 2018 All-Ireland final, I'll see Lyster, Spillane, Brolly & O'Rourke.
Spillane will bemoan the quality of play. If there is an Ulster county, Brolly will fancy their chances.
Marty Morrissey will conduct some cringeworthy interviews from the winners' hotel.

Whoever wins will have had "the greater hunger".

davegrohl48

ProudDUB wrote: »

Agreed. It would be great to see those stats not just for each individual game, but compared to other games in a season, and then compared season to season. Other sports and TV networks can do it. I don't know why the GAA and RTE can't or don't or won't. The technology out there these days makes it incredibly easy to do and keep track of.

There is another aspect of the modern game that the Sunday game panel seem unaware of. As Gaelic Football has become more of a posession game it means teams now have the ball for a longer period. Based on this I believe Donegal have developing a system of "plays" which are easier to execute now as you have less randomness as you have posession for longer. If you look back to see Neil Gallaghers point in the All Ireland final last year it looked liked a practiced move meant to finish with Gallagher. McGuinness admitted to practising particular moves multiple repetitions of times in training to increase chance of it working in a game. Witness Donegal repeatedly sending in long ball towards Murphy until they got a goal on the third attempt. It works most effectively when it is practiced and everyone is aware "From 60 yards onwards, if in space get it into Murphy". Up to now most teams would decide to execute a particular tactic but there wasn't any focus on that particular move in training during the season.
I'v said it before but the 6'6" Lebron Murphy type full forward will be devestating if used in the modern game with a forward line all clued in how to use him. Even a simple handpass high into the square gives someone of that stature a goal chance. The square ball rule is now gone from open play so naturally full forwards should spring up in height as a result.

Clareman

Piplin banned for personal abuse.

@All other posters, if you have a problem with a post report it, backseat modding or getting into discussions with someone over a banned topic will lead to you getting banned also.