Roberto Martinez Leaves Wigan.

Laois_Man · 23-02-2015 9:39pm

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I've said all season I'd take finishing 16th and win Europa. We had a tough group and cruised through it we've a good chance if the draw is kind to us.

The draw would have to be very kind. Of the 16 teams likely to remain in the Europa League on Friday morning, Everton are the lowest placed across the domestic leagues....albeit some poor leagues

Paddy Power has Everton joint 8th in the betting at 16/1 and William Hill has Everton joint 5th at 14/1 - Napoli, Wolfsburg, Liverpool and Savilla being the most fancied across both.

Iused2likebusts · 23-02-2015 9:57pm

Barry has been a big problem for Everton anytime I've seen them. I thought he was excellent for them last season and it was a no brainer to sign him. But unfortunately his legs have gone this year he is getting caught in possession a lot and not able to give the cover to the Everton back 4 he gave last year.Distin is another that has declined a lot this year.

Ranchu · 23-02-2015 10:59pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

The draw would have to be very kind. Of the 16 teams likely to remain in the Europa League on Friday morning, Everton are the lowest placed across the domestic leagues....albeit some poor leagues

Paddy Power has Everton joint 8th in the betting at 16/1 and William Hill has Everton joint 5th at 14/1 - Napoli, Wolfsburg, Liverpool and Savilla being the most fancied across both.

I wouldn't be writing Everton off having beaten the favourites 6-1 on aggregate already in this campaign.

Shanotheslayer · 24-02-2015 1:03am

Ranchu wrote: »

I wouldn't be writing Everton off having beaten the favourites 6-1 on aggregate already in this campaign.

Yeh I agree with this.

Only teams I wouldn't fancy us against is Liverpool/Spurs. Would fancy us against other teams.

Super-Rush · 24-02-2015 1:19am

Ranchu wrote: »

I wouldn't be writing Everton off having beaten the favourites 6-1 on aggregate already in this campaign.

When were Wolfsburg the favourites?

The_Kew_Tour · 24-02-2015 1:24am

Wolfsburg are joint favs with quiet few outlets

Super-Rush · 24-02-2015 1:39am

So they are, and at a generous price as well.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-02-2015 1:41am

Not just saying it, but think Liverpool are nice value too.

Shanotheslayer · 24-02-2015 1:44am

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not just saying it, but think Liverpool are nice value too.

Based on Form Wolfs/Pool are in with a great chance. But I think a lot will depend on luck of the draw to. Sevilla no mugs in Europa either

The_Kew_Tour · 24-02-2015 1:47am

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Based on Form Wolfs/Pool are in with a great chance. But I think a lot will depend on luck of the draw to. Sevilla no mugs in Europa either

True and also depend on who takes it seriously.

With chance to get CL through it it makes it more enticing now.

Super-Rush · 24-02-2015 1:51am

Napoli and Rafa will be the priest standing on the sugar mountain.

Ranchu · 26-02-2015 11:24pm

Martinez will come in for little praise here since it's largely liverpool fans commenting. Not arsed getting in to it but he knows what he's at.

Washington Irving · 26-02-2015 11:34pm

Ranchu wrote: »

Martinez will come in for little praise here since it's largely liverpool fans commenting. Not arsed getting in to it but he knows what he's at.

In fairness, most of the Liverpool fans on here have no more against Everton than they do any other lower midtable side such as Newcastle or Villa.

Ranchu · 26-02-2015 11:39pm

Washington Irving wrote: »

In fairness, most of the Liverpool fans on here have no more against Everton than they do any other lower midtable side such as Newcastle or Villa.

I don't think that's really the case due to their salivating in this thread. You even have utd fans hoping for the worst.

kryogen · 26-02-2015 11:55pm

If by hoping you mean expecting him to perform to his normal level then yeah, you're right.

Ranchu · 27-02-2015 12:01am

kryogen wrote: »

If by hoping you mean expecting him to perform to his normal level then yeah, you're right.

What's his normal level?

Ranchu · 27-02-2015 12:30am

kryogen wrote: »

If by hoping you mean expecting him to perform to his normal level then yeah, you're right.

Ah sorry I misunderstood. You meant that his normal level is winning a cup with a massive financial handicap. I suppose he's doing alright so.

Paully D · 27-02-2015 1:02am

Ranchu wrote: »

Ah sorry I misunderstood. You meant that his normal level is winning a cup with a massive financial handicap. I suppose he's doing alright so.

Hi Roberto.

yabadabado · 27-02-2015 1:04am

Ranchu wrote: »

Ah sorry I misunderstood. You meant that his normal level is winning a cup with a massive financial handicap. I suppose he's doing alright so.

Or you could also say getting a team relegated.

27-02-2015 5:14am

Washington Irving wrote: »

In fairness, most of the Liverpool fans on here have no more against Everton than they do any other lower midtable side such as Newcastle or Villa.

And presume most of the Everton fans fans on here have no more against Liverpool than they do any other upper midtable side such as Spurs or Swansea.

kryogen · 27-02-2015 10:29am

Ranchu wrote: »

What's his normal level?

Play a bit of cavalier football, be a "breath of fresh air" and destroy his teams ability to defend even the simplest situations, ultimately leading to relegation/failure.

Ranchu · 27-02-2015 10:44am

kryogen wrote: »

Play a bit of cavalier football, be a "breath of fresh air" and destroy his teams ability to defend even the simplest situations, ultimately leading to relegation/failure.

Relegation wasn't a failure for Wigan though. It is what was expected from them. Not getting top four won't be a failure at Everton because it's against the odds financially.

You keep banging on about Moyes but you seem to forget that he had us in similar positions in the league many times but you don't seem to view him as a failure.

eagle eye · 27-02-2015 10:45am

kryogen wrote: »

Play a bit of cavalier football, be a "breath of fresh air" and destroy his teams ability to defend even the simplest situations, ultimately leading to relegation/failure.

Wigan got relegated but won the FA Cup the same year. It's hard to call that failure for a smaller club like Wigan.

If they win the Europa league and finish 17th in the league I think that is a very successful year for Everton FC.

bucketybuck · 27-02-2015 11:11am

Ranchu wrote: »

Relegation wasn't a failure for Wigan though. It is what was expected from them.

Wigan had been in the Premier league 8 years by the time Martinez got them relegated, they weren't a newly promoted club or a yo-yo club.

8 years of PL money and premier league players, they had every chance to establish themselves as a solid midtable PL club, and thats exactly what they did until Martinez forgot he needed defenders.

Ranchu · 27-02-2015 11:19am

bucketybuck wrote: »

Wigan had been in the Premier league 8 years by the time Martinez got them relegated, they weren't a newly promoted club or a yo-yo club.

8 years of PL money and premier league players, they had every chance to establish themselves as a solid midtable PL club, and thats exactly what they did until Martinez forgot he needed defenders.

Wigan had no money by the time they were relegated. They spent less and less every year and should have gone down sooner. They will probably go down again this year too.

K-9 · 27-02-2015 11:44am

bucketybuck wrote: »

Wigan had been in the Premier league 8 years by the time Martinez got them relegated, they weren't a newly promoted club or a yo-yo club.

8 years of PL money and premier league players, they had every chance to establish themselves as a solid midtable PL club, and thats exactly what they did until Martinez forgot he needed defenders.

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, sure they must have had the PL money all that time!

The transfer funds dried up after Bruce IIRC, they'd have been one of the smallest spenders in the PL during Martinez's time.

27-02-2015 11:51am

When we're all done with the Martinez "he's good, no he's bad" debate (even though he has them in or about mid table which is hardly a shock given their spending) will we head over to a Rodgers thread and make the exact same "he's good, no he's bad" points (even though he has them between mid table and the top 4 which is hardly a shock given their spending).

K-9 · 27-02-2015 11:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

When we're all done with the Martinez "he's good, no he's bad" debate (even though he has them in or about mid table which is hardly a shock given their spending) will we head over to a Rodgers thread and make the exact same "he's good, no he's bad" points (even though he has them between mid table and the top 4 which is hardly a shock given their spending).

Shame you weren't about when Martinez was getting loads of praise from Liverpool supporters last season.

United fans were much harsher on him IIRC.

bucketybuck · 27-02-2015 12:39pm

K-9 wrote: »

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, sure they must have had the PL money all that time!

The transfer funds dried up after Bruce IIRC, they'd have been one of the smallest spenders in the PL during Martinez's time.

Sometimes the simple way is the correct way. No "must have" about it, for 8 years Wigan had exactly the same opportunity as the likes of Stoke to establish themselves as a Premier league club, and for 8 years thats what they were.

The OP said that relegation was expected for Wigan. You can say that it was always a possibility, but it was not inevitable for Wigan, not by any means.

K-9 · 27-02-2015 12:57pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sometimes the simple way is the correct way. No "must have" about it, for 8 years Wigan had exactly the same opportunity as the likes of Stoke to establish themselves as a Premier league club, and for 8 years thats what they were.

The OP said that relegation was expected for Wigan. You can say that it was always a possibility, but it was not inevitable for Wigan, not by any means.

Nobody expected them to win a Cup either, which for Wigan was an immense achievement.

bucketybuck · 27-02-2015 1:01pm

K-9 wrote: »

Nobody expected them to win a Cup either, which for Wigan was an immense achievement.

So? The original point was about relegation.

27-02-2015 1:39pm

K-9 wrote: »

Shame you weren't about when Martinez was getting loads of praise from Liverpool supporters last season.

United fans were much harsher on him IIRC.

I just don't get the need to find something wrong with either manager who has their teams bumping along in pretty much where most would expect them to bump along.

It reeks a bit of the "I picked ManU, you picked Rochdale, the club I picked is way bigger".

Ranchu · 27-02-2015 2:19pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sometimes the simple way is the correct way. No "must have" about it, for 8 years Wigan had exactly the same opportunity as the likes of Stoke to establish themselves as a Premier league club, and for 8 years thats what they were.

The OP said that relegation was expected for Wigan. You can say that it was always a possibility, but it was not inevitable for Wigan, not by any means.

The amount of money a club spends on wages is usually a direct correlation of how they place in the league. I think Wigan spent the second least amount on wages the year they went down. A lot less than Stoke. They overperformed by winning the cup and performed as they should have in the league.

Edit. Wigan we're 20th in the league in spending on wages while Stoke were 12th.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/01/premier-league-accounts-club-by-club-david-conn

Iused2likebusts · 27-02-2015 2:27pm

Ranchu wrote: »

The amount of money a club spends on wages is usually a direct correlation of how they place in the league. I think Wigan spent the second least amount on wages the year they went down. A lot less than Stoke. They overperformed by winning the cup and performed as they should have in the league.

Edit. Wigan we're 20th in the league in spending on wages while Stoke were 12th.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/01/premier-league-accounts-club-by-club-david-conn

Your spot on.
There is no comparison between stoke and Wigan as clubs. Stoke are a far bigger club.

K-9 · 27-02-2015 3:06pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

So? The original point was about relegation.

Grand so, we'll just ignore their biggest ever achievement so.

bucketybuck · 27-02-2015 3:11pm

K-9 wrote: »

Grand so, we'll just ignore their biggest ever achievement so.

Your post was a non-sequitur, simply not relevant as a response to the post I made. Get over it.

27-02-2015 4:52pm

This cup run should keep him in a job all going well. Barring relegation obviously.

Kirby · 27-02-2015 5:02pm

His team selection baffles me sometimes but I think people have unrealistic expectations. The bottom line is, there are about 10 clubs in the premier league that will outspend Everton every season. I mean 28 million for a striker smashes their transfer record and everybody talks about it every time Lukaku doesn't score..... 28 million is an average spend for a Liverpool or Spurs player. Look what they spent on Soldado and Lovren.

Liverpool, Spurs, United, City and Arsenal all spend more money and are either not in Europe or about to go out. Everton are still there. Is that not a sign that he's at least getting some things right?

Laois_Man · 27-02-2015 5:28pm

Kirby wrote: »

His team selection baffles me sometimes but I think people have unrealistic expectations. The bottom line is, there are about 10 clubs in the premier league that will outspend Everton every season. I mean 28 million for a striker smashes their transfer record and everybody talks about it every time Lukaku doesn't score..... 28 million is an average spend for a Liverpool or Spurs player. Look what they spent on Soldado and Lovren.

Liverpool, Spurs, United, City and Arsenal all spend more money and are either not in Europe or about to go out. Everton are still there. Is that not a sign that he's at least getting some things right?

You need to learn what the word "Average" means. £28 Million is not an average spend for a Spurs player. They've only spent that once, ever! In fact, even Arsenal have only broken that figure twice. Liverpool have only broken it once, ever!

Finishing in the top 7 cannot be regarded as an unrealistic expectation for a club that have done exactly that in 9 out of the last 10 seasons!

LuckyLloyd · 20-03-2015 2:55pm

Put to the sword last night in Kiev. 9 league games left, currently sitting on 31 points with a GD of -5. How bad a run over the remainder of the league campaign would be required to see him sacked? Is it as simple as 'stay up, stay in job'?

Dickerty · 20-03-2015 3:25pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Put to the sword last night in Kiev. 9 league games left, currently sitting on 31 points with a GD of -5. How bad a run over the remainder of the league campaign would be required to see him sacked? Is it as simple as 'stay up, stay in job'?

Wouldn't it be terrible if they went down?

:cool:

eh i dunno · 20-03-2015 3:36pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Put to the sword last night in Kiev. 9 league games left, currently sitting on 31 points with a GD of -5. How bad a run over the remainder of the league campaign would be required to see him sacked? Is it as simple as 'stay up, stay in job'?

And Liverpool fans think we're obsessed with them? No comments here on Sunday when we won 3-0

LuckyLloyd · 20-03-2015 3:38pm

eh i dunno wrote: »

And Liverpool fans think we're obsessed with them? No comments here on Sunday when we won 3-0

Any thoughts on the question posed?

eh i dunno · 20-03-2015 3:46pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Any thoughts on the question posed?

Won't be sacked unless he takes us down. Moyes finished 17 th in his second season and kept his job. If he survives and stays next season poorly he'll get the bullet. In my opinion he should probably be sacked as he's been a disaster this season.

LuckyLloyd · 20-03-2015 3:48pm

eh i dunno wrote: »

Won't be sacked unless he takes us down. Moyes finished 17 th in his second season and kept his job. If he survives and stays next season poorly he'll get the bullet. In my opinion he should probably be sacked as he's been a disaster this season.

Cheers - interesting to get your thoughts. I'd certainly agree with the last sentence.

bucketybuck · 20-03-2015 3:49pm

Everton will stay up, and when they do the club really should take a long think about whether Martinez is the right man for that job. No point giving him 10/15 games next season and then sacking him after another poor run, make the call now.

ricero · 20-03-2015 5:08pm

A total spoofer

20-03-2015 5:09pm

He should be sacked but from an opposition fan point of view I hope he stays for a few more years.

Harry Palmr · 20-03-2015 5:14pm

Everton might see a player exodus at this rate.

Shanotheslayer · 20-03-2015 5:41pm

He won't be sacked. Everybody knows what Kenwright is like, so I don't see the need to get so annoyed at it.

We play decent football with him, but his team selection is awful.

I find it crazy the amount of double standards people have. He was the messiah last season, yet we have a sh!t season and suddenly he must go. So based on that, it's a 50-50. People will always remember the bad, and a manager is always based on his most recent results.

Martinez team selection has been poor and crazy at times, but some of the players have been awful.

Lukaku-was poor at start of season.
Barkley-off the boyle. Albeit played out of position at times

Jags-Meh
Coleman-looks like a different player compared to the last few season
Distin-meh
Alcaraz-should never wear a jersey again
Stones - Good
Baines - Can't seem to cross a ball anymore.

5 defenders there have all been below par so whoever Martinez picks it's fcked.

Garbutt has been good when he plays.

Howards? Shocking decision to drop Joel.
Barry? Has to be dropped and Besic has to start every game.

So I think between team selection and players playing well below par it's been a disaster. Even when he picked a team people where happy with, we still lost.

Roberto Martinez Leaves Wigan.

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