Something needs to be done about nightclub groping

Pepe LeFrits

Das Kitty wrote: »

What exactly would it achieve?

It's happened to me in every club in Galway.

Twee. wrote: »

I don't see any benefits in "naming & shaming", one or two creeps who can't keep their hands to themselves doesn't represent a venue's entire crowd.

It’s up to the owners of a club to look after their clientele and if they refuse to do that, then why shouldn’t get they get named? I’m not suggesting creating a list of every club where someone has had their arse pinched as it’d include every club in the country, but ones where it is common and ignored by the management.

roast wrote: »

Any establishment, nightclubs included, should really start to work on creating a better environment for their patrons - one in which drunken, inconsiderate, touchy-feely arseholes are removed from the premises quick-sharp. People should always feel comfortable on a night out and not constantly having to be worried about being touched inappropriately.

Agreed.

Giving someone a slap isn’t really going to change anything, though it may feel cathartic. Really, the best thing to do is just keep raising awareness that it’s not OK. Social media can be a powerful tool if enough people care about the issue. It’s not going to change overnight but attitudes /can/ be changed. In the meantime, finding out which nightclub owners will look after their customers and which won’t might also be worthwhile…

Merkin

It's ages since I've been in a club as I'm bordering on being a fossil at the grand old age of mid-30s. However, I would consider groping almost part and parcel of going to a packed nightclub and have had my ass pinched and slapped more times than I'd care to mention. I had a particularly VILE experience in one "up market" city centre club which shall remain nameless a couple of years ago. I was wearing a pencil skirt and while making my way very slowly through a heaving throng of people near the bar with a friend, suddenly and without warning, I felt my ladybits being grabbed. I mean properly grabbed. While trying to get through all those crowded bodies slowly, some ba$tard had taken the liberty of putting his hand UP my skirt and grabbing my vagina with such force it properly took the wind out of me. The worst thing was I looked around and there were some sleazy and disgusting individuals leering back at me as if to say "what you going to do about it" while the identity of the perpetrator remained a mystery. I'm really not easily shocked but it really ruined my night. When I turned back again they were gone too so it's not like I could pick one out. This to me was in no doubt a sexual assualt and yet it's so common (not necessarily fanny grabbing but you get my drift) that it's excused by saying "ah sure it's only a bit of craic".....:mad:

homerjay2005

so when guys do it, its wrong/revolting and all this, yet girls do it its harmless fun? amazing example of double standards.

girls do this as much as men. some things are harmless, but then some of the others described here are harassement, theres a huge difference and anybody who does the latter is nothing but a scumbag, both sexes included.

IvyTheTerrible

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so when guys do it, its wrong/revolting and all this, yet girls do it its harmless fun? amazing example of double standards.

girls do this as much as men. some things are harmless, but then some of the others described here are harassement, theres a huge difference and anybody who does the latter is nothing but a scumbag, both sexes included.

Did someone here say when girls do it it's harmless?

Rayne Wooney

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Did someone here say when girls do it it's harmless?

Did you read the thread? It's been mentioned at least 5 times.

IvyTheTerrible

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Did you read the thread? It's been mentioned at least 5 times.

One poster mentioned it was harmless and then backtracked. All the other posters were saying it was unacceptable whatever the gender.

Wibbs

Was this not clear enough?

Twee wrote:

Please consider the charter the next time you post, thanks

It is also not the place for men to respond to a thread on a women's point of view with "what about men?", this is considered "whataboutery" and off topic posting. If you want to discuss such subjects there are other forums on Boards where you can.

I'll be clearer. No more "what about men?" in this thread. Bans will be handed down. Thank you.

GreeBo

Any women not have an issue with it at all?
Maybe have met/chatted/whatever with a guy after it has happened?

GalwayGuy2

Yeah there should be some kind of punishment when a person gropes another person without their consent. I think fines or bans would be a good idea (Even though the first club would lose a lot of business)

Although, if you involve the law I think there should be a separation between groping and sexual assault. In the english languange, and our society, Sexual assualt has rape conontations, while groping is a lesser, but still punishable, offense, depending on the circumstances of the grope itself. If it's covered by Sexual Assualt then a person slapping another person's bottom would be treated the same in the law as a violent sexual offender.

So, would people be in favor of having it punishable by itself, or should it be classed as Sexual Assault?

eviltwin

This is one of the reasons I don't go to nightclubs anymore. I have seen a lot of agressive behaviour from both sexes in pretty much every club I have been to. I feel I am constantly having to be on alert now and it defeats the purpose of a night out for me to always be on my guard.

The last experience I had was a few years ago in an over 30's club. I thought that maybe the age profile would mean a more mature clientele. Wrong. I got chatted up by a guy up at the bar, told him I was married and he proceeded to stare at our group the entire night. One of my friends went up to the bar and he told her our group looked like a bunch of whores, he followed me to the loos and waited outside and tried to block me so that I had to shove past him to get out.

We complained and were told "thats X, he's harmless". It was clear management tolerated it. We never went back.

Rayne Wooney

To be honest from what I've seen it's often used to initiate contact in clubs and a lot of the time the two people end up staying together for the night or going home together.

My generation are probably not as bothered with it as it's just a thing that's been happening since these teenage discos. It's almost accepted.

It's a strange one, some people don't mind it and for others it could really upset them. I suppose this is where the problems lies with clubs, they either ban it outright or just let it go on the way it is. It would take up a lot of time for the club taking it as a case by case basis which I don't think will happen.

Earthhorse

Before ye started going to night clubs did anyone, an older sister or friend say, warn ye about this and give you strategies for dealing with it?

rox5

Gorilla Rising wrote: »

You're exaggerating to defend your indefensible comment that it's 'harmless fun' when a woman does it. Just admit you're wrong and stop making things up.

I've never seen nor heard of this behaviour from anyone I've encountered.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but you're implying it's as common in comparison to what a woman does (just pinching a guys ass) and you're just plain wrong.

I am not making things up or going to admit I am wrong because it is TRUE from what I have encountered, heard of and seen on nights out. I am not making up this stuff because this stuff is happening in nightclubs, I have seen guys get way too handsy with girls, including a friend of min who I had to drag away from a creep. I just did not think that my comment would cause this backlash so I when I realised how it sounded, I wanted to make myself more clearer.

Because I understand it if guys don't like it, no one does, but I am just saying when it comes to selling sex in these places, it is always a female in those ads in a inappropiate photo like the Alchemy.

Handsome Bob

I have a mate who can get quite aggressive when he's drunk, literally grabbing women when they come out of the toilet. He's not a small bloke either so I can imagine how intimidating it can be.

The sad thing is that he's actually a good looking bloke so I don't understand why he does it. He's a sound bloke too. Alcohol just does mental things to some people.

Merkin

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I have a mate who can get quite aggressive when he's drunk, literally grabbing women when they come out of the toilet. He's not a small bloke either so I can imagine how intimidating it can be.

The sad thing is that he's actually a good looking bloke so I don't understand why he does it. He's a sound bloke too. Alcohol just does mental things to some people.

I agree although I have no idea why people persist in drinking if they turn into a monster/a$$hole every time they do!

IvyTheTerrible

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

To be honest from what I've seen it's often used to initiate contact in clubs and a lot of the time the two people end up staying together for the night or going home together.

My generation are probably not as bothered with it as it's just a thing that's been happening since these teenage discos. It's almost accepted.

It's a strange one, some people don't mind it and for others it could really upset them. I suppose this is where the problems lies with clubs, they either ban it outright or just let it go on the way it is. It would take up a lot of time for the club taking it as a case by case basis which I don't think will happen.

Getting groped is a way of initiating contact now? Ugh.

Chucky the tree

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I have a mate who can get quite aggressive when he's drunk, literally grabbing women when they come out of the toilet. He's not a small bloke either so I can imagine how intimidating it can be.

The sad thing is that he's actually a good looking bloke so I don't understand why he does it. He's a sound bloke too. Alcohol just does mental things to some people.

Certainly seems so from your description...

kylith

Merkin wrote: »

I agree although I have no idea why people persist in drinking if they turn into a monster/a$$hole every time they do!

Because they honestly don't realise how bad they are. My SiL was totally unbearable when drunk; yelling, starting fights, breaking things, but wouldn't believe it until shown a video of her behaviour.

Handsome Bob

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Certainly seems so from your description...

Well, the way I see it Chucky, I'm not going to judge someone too harshly for something they did when catatonic drunk over something that can best be described as incredibly out of order.

Chucky the tree

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Well, the way I see it Chucky, I'm not going to judge someone too harshly for something they did when catatonic drunk over something that can best be described as incredibly out of order.

If it was a once off then fair enough, no problem with that. But you make it sound like he does it often. In which case I'd call a scumbag rather than sound.

meeeeh

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Getting groped is a way of initiating contact now? Ugh.

People mentioned about schoolmate of mine that he would grope girls and if they didn't slap him, he'd start chatting to them. Black hair, blue eyes, tanned, looking like an advert for chick lit and complete arse.

eviltwin

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Well, the way I see it Chucky, I'm not going to judge someone too harshly for something they did when catatonic drunk over something that can best be described as incredibly out of order.

Have you ever talked to him about it?

You know the guy but the women he grabs don't. If a guy comes at me I don't know if he is having the laugh or out to assault me. Either way its very intimidating. Women go out to have a good time, they shouldn't have to feel unsafe in pubs or nightclubs.

Handsome Bob

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If it was a once off then fair enough, no problem with that. But you make it sound like he does it often. In which case I'd call a scumbag rather than sound.

It has happened more than once, so I can see where you're coming from.

But I still think labelling someone a scumbag is harsh, most of the people who do it are just locked fools really who have lost all sense of boundaries.

eviltwin wrote: »

Have you ever talked to him about it?

You know the guy but the women he grabs don't. If a guy comes at me I don't know if he is having the laugh or out to assault me. Either way its very intimidating. Women go out to have a good time, they shouldn't have to feel unsafe in pubs or nightclubs.

He's been spoken to but as I'm sure you're aware, some people when they're drunk just turn into a different person.

Doesn't help that the others jokingly refer to him as the "sexual predator" and make light of it.

Chucky the tree

Handsome Bob wrote: »

It has happened more than once, so I can see where you're coming from.

But I still think labelling someone a scumbag is harsh, most of the people who do it are just locked fools really who have lost all sense of boundaries.


He's been spoken to but as I'm sure you're aware, some people when they're drunk just turn into a different person.

Doesn't help that the others jokingly refer to him as the "sexual predator" and make light of it.

Normal people who do scummy things when drunk would curb there drinking. Using the old "he's only hammered" is a cop out tbh. If he has a sister/girlfriend would he be happy if it happened to them? Same with everyone in the group. He does it because he can get away with it, and because he feels there isn't anything wrong with it. I don't think describing him as a scumbag harsh as all.

gctest50

Handsome Bob wrote: »

It has happened more than once, so I can see where you're coming from.

Doesn't help that the others jokingly refer to him as the "sexual predator" and make light of it.

He might want to sort it out before he picks on the wrong girl :

Guy i know of who has a history of harassing women picked on the wrong one : he is now brain damaged

carrig2

I have been groped a few times and had my bum slapped but the worst thing by far to happen me was when someone was standing behind me in a bar one night and he rubbed his erection against me. I turned round, slapped his face and he called me a frigid cow. Worst of all when I told the manager he said, look he is ok. Must be just too much drink taken. Did nothing

Neeson

gctest50 wrote: »

Guy i know of who has a history of harassing women picked on the wrong one : he is now brain damaged

How did he end up brain damaged?

gctest50

He went down steps - concrete > skull

Wompa1

I have had a guy try to kiss me. Had a guy come up behind me and grab me. And I'm a guy myself! Those ones did ruin my night.

Other than that I've had my junk grabbed by girls, just because.

Also what has ruined my night. Just made me feel bad was how I have been treated a few times by women on hen nights. I have a bit of a baby face and it's like a beacon for them. Not cool :mad:

Rayne Wooney

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Getting groped is a way of initiating contact now? Ugh.

From my view on things, between the ages of 18-25 it is, sad as it may be.

Neeson

gctest50 wrote: »

He went down steps - concrete > skull

Well that's more to do with being drunk though. You didn't push him down the steps did you?

jackofalltrades

Handsome Bob wrote: »

He's been spoken to but as I'm sure you're aware, some people when they're drunk just turn into a different person.
Doesn't help that the others jokingly refer to him as the "sexual predator" and make light of it.

I don't buy into this "different person" idea when people are drunk. I think you see the truest version of the vast majority of people, when they are drunk.

The fact that it's been pointed out to him when he's sober and he continues doing it really shows his true colours.

gctest50

Neeson wrote: »

Well that's more to do with being drunk though. You didn't push him down the steps did you?

No no, i wasn't even there - the guy told me himself

Neeson

gctest50 wrote: »

No no, i wasn't even there - the guy told me himself

So he was so drunk he thought the steps were a woman? I'm confused!

gctest50

He assaulted her, she defended herself

meeeeh

I'm guessing that either she or somebody else helped him too meet the concrete.

Edit:
Too late.

Neeson

gctest50 wrote: »

He assaulted her, she defended herself

Yeah but if she defended herself by causing him to fall down concrete steps and end up brain damaged that might be a bit too aggressive.

How could you live with yourself after doing that? I know someone might have been fondling you but turning someone else into a brain damaged man isn't really fair.

hattoncracker

Was out in a nightclub with a hen party a few weeks ago, a group of guys dancing near us were literally grinding all of us, it was irritating and really uncomfortable because even if they stopped for a few minutes you knew they'd be back a couple of minutes later and they just wouldn't piss off! I was assaulted previously and I just freeze when I get touched by strange men now so it completely ruined my evening. Assholes.

meeeeh

Neeson wrote: »

Yeah but if she defended herself by causing him to fall down concrete steps and end up brain damaged that might be a bit too aggressive.

How could you live with yourself after doing that? I know someone might have been fondling you but turning someone else into a brain damaged man isn't really fair.

No it's not. But it could be someone's instinctive reaction to push the guy/girl away. If you play with fire...

Neeson

meeeeh wrote: »

No it's not. But it could be someone's instinctive reaction to push the guy/girl away. If you play with fire...

Yeah. I suppose this little story might serve as warning to all the people thinking about hitting back hard!

cantdecide

Neeson wrote: »

...isn't really fair.

It's not fair when you plan to be the villain in the story but it blows up in your face? You live by the sword, you die by the sword, IMO. If your sister had been the lady in the story, you can be sure where you'd stand.

Neeson

cantdecide wrote: »

It's not fair when you plan to be the villain in the story but it blows up in your face? You live by the sword, you die by the sword, IMO. If your sister had been the lady in the story, you can be sure where you'd stand.

Yes. But you have to feel for the family and the man who is left brain damaged. Somebody got griped and ill say this anyway knowing that someone in this place will jump down my thrust but you can get over and forget about someone groping you. You'll be stuck brain damaged.

What I was saying is there is a right way to go about handling something.

Handsome Bob

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Normal people who do scummy things when drunk would curb there drinking. Using the old "he's only hammered" is a cop out tbh. If he has a sister/girlfriend would he be happy if it happened to them? Same with everyone in the group. He does it because he can get away with it, and because he feels there isn't anything wrong with it. I don't think describing him as a scumbag harsh as all.

Aye, not getting bollox faced with help alright.

I don't see how you think we let him away with it. I already said we put a stop to it when it's happening and at the very least some of us will tell him to cop on when he's sober.

He knows it wrong, he understands why it is. But unfortunately reasoning goes out the window for some people when they're hammered. That's not an excuse, it's just the way it is. In an ideal world he would not get that hammered (not that he does that much anyway, it doesn't happen every week or even every month). We can only hope he grows up at some stage (still in his early 20s).

TBH, I think it just comes down to respect (or a lack thereof) for a someone's personal space and boundaries. Again, that doesn't make him a scumbag, just immature. He's about to become a father so I'm sure that will help.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I don't buy into this "different person" idea when people are drunk. I think you see the truest version of the vast majority of people, when they are drunk.

The fact that it's been pointed out to him when he's sober and he continues doing it really shows his true colours.

I always felt that's a slightly simplistic view. If a friend does something wrong while drunk, I don't see it as them showing their true colours: I see it as a combination of the drink, whatever mood someone might be in or whatever they might be going through a certain time.

I mean I'm sure you've seen friends do messed up things when they've been drunk, do you hold it against them and decide right, that person has shown their true colours? If so, it seems a bit ludicrous to me that you'd take one negative instance over countless positive memories and decide that the former is who the person really is.

meeeeh

Neeson wrote: »

Yeah. I suppose this little story might serve as warning to all the people thinking about hitting back hard!

Most people actually don't have time to think how they should react. I don't agree with people saying you should do whatever. I slaped somebody before, it was completely instinctive reaction but other times I didn't do anything or just pushed the hand away. The slap was no more premeditated than any other reaction. I don't wish brain damage or any other injury on people but whatever it is the attacker can't be a victim.

Neeson

meeeeh wrote: »

Most people actually don't have time to think how they should react. I don't agree with people saying you should do whatever. I slaped somebody before, it was completely instinctive reaction but other times I didn't do anything or just pushed the hand away. The slap was no more premeditated than any other reaction. I don't wish brain damage or any other injury on people but whatever it is the attacker can't be a victim.

It's a grey area I suppose. A bit like shooting people who come into your house and them taking a case against you.

GalwayGuy2

Originally Posted by meeeeh
No it's not. But it could be someone's instinctive reaction to push the guy/girl away. If you play with fire..

If I gave a woman brain damage for grabbing my crotch, I'd feel like absolute crap for the rest of my life

Neeson

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

If I gave a woman brain damage for grabbing my crotch, I'd feel like absolute crap for the rest of my life

Agree. Thats the point I was making.

It seems some of these women go around thinking their bodies are temples. Woe betide anyone who touches them. If they touch me I have every right to kill them as long as I say I didn't mean it.

GalwayGuy2

It seems some of these women go around thinking their bodies are temples. Woe betide anyone who touches them. If they touch me I have every right to kill them as long as I say I didn't mean it.

Every person's body is their own private temple

Neeson

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Every person's body is their own private temple

This is true. I suppose.

Pawwed Rig

Handsome Bob wrote: »

He knows it wrong, he understands why it is. But unfortunately reasoning goes out the window for some people when they're hammered. That's not an excuse, it's just the way it is. In an ideal world he would not get that hammered (not that he does that much anyway, it doesn't happen every week or even every month). We can only hope he grows up at some stage (still in his early 20s).

He should give up drinking then if he cannot control himself while he is under the influence. He has an alcohol problem by the sounds of it so you should probably help him rather than humouring his behaviour.

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Again, that doesn't make him a scumbag, just immature. He's about to become a father so I'm sure that will help.

If he has such disregard for people that he continues this behaviour that he knows is wrong then that is not immaturity.

Has anyone ever reported a groper to the Gardai btw?