Something needs to be done about nightclub groping

Galwayguy35

throwa20 wrote: »

Yes, and then he tried to get her (the victim) kicked out of the club for defending herself.

In the cold light of day, I would have reported him to the guards. But I was justified in what I did at that moment.

I would be in mental torture if I let someone brazenly assault my GF and try to finger us as the troublemakers.

We did not seek trouble that night, we were minding our own business. That man can blame himself for any injuries he sustained. Maybe he thinks twice about assaulting other girls now.

I've seen someone knocked out in a fight, his head hit the tow bar of a car and he ended up in a coma for a few months afterwards, it ain't a nice thing to have to face someones family and and realise that you are the one that put their loved one in that state.

Whether you like it or not people can't just go around giving out their own brand of justice, as I said before if you hit him immediately afterwards and he fell and got hurt you migh have some defense but you looked for him and then hit him.

There is a big difference there.

GreeBo

Candie wrote: »

Nobody suggested that afaik.

You yourself stated that the two assaults were not as bad as each other. They are both assaults, its not up to joe public to decide which is better or worse than the other, at least not in a civilized society.

The girl slapped him in an immediate and understandable response, the subsequent assault some time later is scumbag behaviour.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

You yourself stated that the two assaults were not as bad as each other. They are both assaults, its not up to joe public to decide which is better or worse than the other, at least not in a civilized society.

The girl slapped him in an immediate and understandable response, the subsequent assault some time later is scumbag behaviour.

I didn't actually say that. I said the guy hitting the sexual assaulter was understandable in the circumstances. I didn't say it was a desirable course of action.

I was very careful to say that understanding something isn't the same as condoning it.

If your mother/sister/wife was sexually assaulted, and the staff of the establishment did nothing, it would certainly be more understandable if your frustration and anger led you to retaliate.

By attacking the girl that guy set a chain of events in action, the punch he took didn't happen in a vacuum.

Again, that doesn't mean I approve, but I certainly understand the retaliation more than I understand the original random sex assault.

worded

A very quiet fem glass collector was groped so much that she told bouncers. There wasn't much they could do as she moved between crowds of people. Anyway it just kept happening til one night she snapped and bottled a fellow over the head. It didn't smash, but it did hurt. A sleaze grabbed her arse while she was working and didn't get the reaction he expected.

ash23

I wouldn't ever hit someone who groped me.

But how a guy thinks that he's going to score by grabbing a girls arse, or grabbing her wrist when she walks past, or grinding up against her when she is dancing with her friends is beyond me.

Be normal ffs. Don't get so drunk that you're unable to have a conversation. Just walk up and smile and say hi.

I will say, I don't frequent nightclubs as often as I used to and every time I go, I remember why I said "never again" the last time I went.

I prefer pubs nowadays (not superpubs). Maybe I'm just getting old

throwa20

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Whether you like it or not people can't just go around giving out their own brand of justice, as I said before if you hit him immediately afterwards and he fell and got hurt you migh have some defense but you looked for him and then hit him.

There is a big difference there.

No the whole situation happened within a 2-3 min timeframe. I hit him immediately after the owner said that he wouldn't do anything about it.

It wasn't premeditated at all, you don't fully understand the situation and yet you are preaching as if you were there.

The attack happened almost immediately after the incident, it took mere seconds to find the guy and hit him.

I had no time to cool down or think about it.

You are acting as if I had loads of time to rationally assess the situation. I didn't.

The funny thing is that I would probably have said similar things, before I was put in the situation.

throwa20

GreeBo wrote: »

the subsequent assault some time later is scumbag behaviour.

Not true that it was some time later. It was immediately after the owner politely told us to fúck off.:rolleyes:

I waited for him to keep walking, then I went over to the bar where the guy was and hit him.

GalwayGuy2

@Throwa20

As a matter of interest, how did your girlfriend feel about you punching the guy?

Arawn

throwa20 wrote: »

Not true that it was some time later. It was immediately after the owner politely told us to fúck off.:rolleyes:

I waited for him to keep walking, then I went over to the bar where the guy was and hit him.

Still assault that would have you done and not him as you were in no danger at all from whoever. In fact it would be seen as pre meditated and would be even worse for you.


I have discovered the best way for me personally to avoid being groped by women and gay men in clubs. I simply do not go to night clubs

throwa20

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

@Throwa20

As a matter of interest, how did your girlfriend feel about you punching the guy?

Before we get to that, it is more important to be aware of how she felt after that man grabbed her vagina.

She felt completely violated, vulnerable, dirty and ashamed, to the point of tears.

In light of that, she didn't feel sorry for the guy at all.

There were no tears shed for that guy in our house.

Arawn wrote:

I have discovered the best way for me personally to avoid being groped by women and gay men in clubs. I simply do not go to night clubs

Unfortunately, we have not gone to a nightclub since that incident as we do not want the hassle anymore.

Arawn wrote:

Still assault that would have you done and not him as you were in no danger at all from whoever. In fact it would be seen as pre meditated and would be even worse for you.

I would have been prepared to go court over it tbh.

I have never been in trouble in my life, and my girlfriend was the victim of an unprovoked sexual assault.

With a good lawyer, I would have had a decent shot at stating my case in a favourable light.

Arawn

throwa20 wrote: »

Before we get to that, it is more important to be aware of how she felt after that man grabbed her vagina.

She felt completely violated, vulnerable, dirty and ashamed, to the point of tears.

In light of that, she didn't feel sorry for the guy at all.

There were no tears shed for that guy in our house.



Unfortunately, we have not gone to a nightclub since that incident as we do not want the hassle anymore.



I would have been prepared to go court over it tbh.

I have never been in trouble in my life, and my girlfriend was the victim of an unprovoked sexual assault.

With a good lawyer, I would have had a decent shot at stating my case in a favourable light.

you wouldn't I can assure you

Mark Hamill

Arawn wrote: »

Still assault that would have you done and not him as you were in no danger at all from whoever. In fact it would be seen as pre meditated and would be even worse for you.

I don't think so. At least, I don't think that throwa20 would have been as much in trouble as some people are making out (had something permanent happened to the guy he hit). You have to remember, the owner laughed off the accusation, he told the girlfriend that she should take it as a compliment. In my book, that was sexual assault too on par with the groping (as it agreed with, if not actively encouraged, it) and if I was there, I would have floored the owner first. Its all well and good saying the groper might have hit his head on the ground after being punched, but that could still have happened if the owner did his job and sent the bouncers after him.

Its easy to say, long after the fact, that throw20 shouldn't have hit him, that he should have called the guards or even contacted some newspapers to tell them of a nightclub owner who encourages sexual assault in his premises. And, cold and logically, that would have been the better course of action. But its hard, in the heat of the moment, to be civilised when no-one else is.

throwa20

Arawn wrote: »

you wouldn't I can assure you

Really now?

throwa20

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I don't think so. At least, I don't think that throwa20 would have been as much in trouble as some people are making out (had something permanent happened to the guy he hit). You have to remember, the owner laughed off the accusation, he told the girlfriend that she should take it as a compliment. In my book, that was sexual assault too on par with the groping (as it agreed with, if not actively encouraged, it) and if I was there, I would have floored the owner first. Its all well and good saying the groper might have hit his head on the ground after being punched, but that could still have happened if the owner did his job and sent the bouncers after him.

Its easy to say, long after the fact, that throw20 shouldn't have hit him, that he should have called the guards or even contacted some newspapers to tell them of a nightclub owner who encourages sexual assault in his premises. And, cold and logically, that would have been the better course of action. But its hard, in the heat of the moment, to be civilised when no-one else is.

Exactly. All 4 of the bouncers on duty that night sided with me, and said they wouldn't be reporting it to the guards.

They felt it was completely unacceptable for the owner to act in the manner he did, PLUS the guy was a known troublemaker and had previously given hassle to the bouncers.

I also had two witnesses who saw the owner dismiss our complaint and laugh at my girlfriend.

So yeah, I still assaulted the guy, but there were circumstances that any judge would take into account.

I'm a professional, with no convictions, and accompanied by a heartfelt apology and explanation and an undertaking to never do anything like it again, I was happy enough to take my chances and deck the guy who grabbed my girlfriend's vagina.

But according to some, overreacting in the heat of the moment to the sexual assault of my girlfriend makes me a scumbag:rolleyes: ffs

Arawn

throwa20 wrote: »

Really now?

Yes.

reprazant

throwa20 wrote: »

Really now?

Do you honestly think judges look favourably on vigilante style justice?

throwa20

reprazant wrote: »

Do you honestly think judges look favourably on vigilante style justice?

No, that's not what I said though. So save the strawman arguments.

reprazant

It is not a strawman argument, it is what you did.

After not getting satisfying action from the manager, you searched the man out and knocked him out.

A judge cannot look favourably on that as it would be seen as condoning that form of action.

Mark Hamill

reprazant wrote: »

Do you honestly think judges look favourably on vigilante style justice?

More or less favourably than groping and nightclub owners advocating said groping?

throwa20

Arawn wrote: »

Yes.

Really? So a donation to a charity for victims of sexual assault and an apology wouldn't get anywhere...?

Look at these serious incidents. Small comp and probation act for all

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/carlowpeople/news/probation-act-handed-down-in-assault-case-27009431.html

http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/local/probation-act-for-publican-who-assaulted-staff-member-1-5086427

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/probation-act-for-assaulting-uncle-27167040.html

kat.mac

GreeBo wrote: »

As I said, you are not an animal, you are supposed to act like an evolved human and not resort immediately to physical violence.

I know that's what you are *supposed* to do. In the heat of the moment, that's not always what you actually do, though. Protective instincts can often override cold, objective logic.

One of the reasons I never go to nightclubs. I have actually got extremely violent in the past when guys have groped me in nightclubs. Used to punch men in faces and stuff...was like a reflex. Pretty bad on my part come to think of it..but I think they deserved it! One fella actually put his hand up my knickers once :mad: Got him barred from the place. Eugh!

The worst is when I started working in bars and was glass collecting. Gropes all over the place. And you can't do anything about it if you are carrying 30 pint glasses!

sambuka41

Its terrible to think that so much time has been given in this thread to whether the guy who sexually assaulted should have been assaulted himself?? I think everyone has acknowledged that it wasn't the best course of action but completely understandable given the circumstances.

Surely we should be focusing on how business owners are accommodating assault regularly. :mad: And how its almost come to be expected that if you go to certain places this will happen, like sexual assault on perfect strangers is ok as long as it's in a particular nightclub.

It happened to me in a nightclub, afterwards I was told that it happens a lot there, unfortunately for me I was not aware of the sexual assault/groping clubs. Two guys were hassling me and my friends for our table, no chairs, it was standing over looking the dance floor. They started bumping into us, pushing us, then they started taking pictures of us, in particular my back, as I had a top on where you could see my tattoos. We told them where to go but they just found that funny.
When that didn't work they decided to try take my top off. It had strings on the back (corset like) they opened them and started pulling them. The strings were just for show, but they didn't know that.
At that point I left and went to the bouncer, he was lovely, asked me to point him out, shook my hand and apologised that I had to go through that and swiftly kicked mr blazer out on his ass felt great after that!!
Except for the fact that he is still out there with pictures of my back, creepy

GalwayGuy2

Its terrible to think that so much time has been given in this thread to whether the guy who sexually assaulted should have been assaulted himself?? I think everyone has acknowledged that it wasn't the best course of action but completely understandable given the circumstances.

I wouldn't class a woman grabbing my penis as sexual assault. I wish there was a separate law to cover it, because I'd rather the woman above wasn't put on a sex offenders list.

I actually checked on citizen information, and I think the law only covers violent sexual assaults. Perhaps I read it wrong.

meeeeh

It's funny how is in this thread for some men a lot easier to sympathize with a guy being punched than with someone being groped. It tells a lot why sexual crimes are so rarely prosecuted. Oh sure your honor, it was just a bit of drunken fun, she should be flattered...

I wouldn't be impressed if my partner punched anybody for groping me and I think it's stupid an dangerous to get into a fight, especially with people you don't know. But most of the replies in this thread are about what not to do in retaliation (slap or punch someone) and very few suggestions what to do, except not to go to a night club.

sambuka41

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

I wouldn't class a woman grabbing my penis as sexual assault. I wish there was a separate law to cover it, because I'd rather the woman above wasn't put on a sex offenders list.

I actually checked on citizen information, and I think the law only covers violent sexual assaults. Perhaps I read it wrong.

The citizen information says:

Sexual Assault/Aggravated sexual assault
Section 2 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 sets out the law in Ireland on sexual assault. A sexual assault is an indecent assault on a male or a female.

I would say that grabbing a strangers ass/vagina without asking qualifies as an indecent assault. And yes if convicted I would want someone who does that on the offenders list, they have seriously poor boundaries at the least and possible more dangerous tendencies behind it.

kat.mac

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

I wouldn't class a woman grabbing my penis as sexual assault. I wish there was a separate law to cover it, because I'd rather the woman above wasn't put on a sex offenders list.

I actually checked on citizen information, and I think the law only covers violent sexual assaults. Perhaps I read it wrong.

It is sexual assault, whether you consider it to be or not. Doesn't mean she would be placed on the sex offenders list though.

reprazant

meeeeh wrote: »

It's funny how is in this thread for some men a lot easier to sympathize with a guy being punched than with someone being groped. It tells a lot why sexual crimes are so rarely prosecuted. Oh sure your honor, it was just a bit of drunken fun, she should be flattered...

Could you point out where anybody has shown a sympathy for the guy that got punched? Pointing out that attacking the perpetrator and leaving yourself open to prosecution and a possible criminal conviction is slightly different from showing sympathy. That whole statement, from the sympathy to the flattery, is just plain insulting.

Arawn

meeeeh wrote: »

It's funny how is in this thread for some men a lot easier to sympathize with a guy being punched than with someone being groped. It tells a lot why sexual crimes are so rarely prosecuted. Oh sure your honor, it was just a bit of drunken fun, she should be flattered...

I wouldn't be impressed if my partner punched anybody for groping me and I think it's stupid an dangerous to get into a fight, especially with people you don't know. But most of the replies in this thread are about what not to do in retaliation (slap or punch someone) and very few suggestions what to do, except not to go to a night club.

I am not sympathizing. I am pointing out from a legal stand point and as someone who did 5 years on a door. Sexual assault is not on, neither is a bloke hanging around to deck a guy. You want a business to run hassle free. So you make it as friendly as possible for everyone there. You don't have that **** go on and in where I worked for the most part it didn't happen and if it did the offender was ****ed out and also you don't anyone going around throwing punches. The bloke that hung around waiting to deck yer man, what if he didn't knock yer man out clean and got bottled in retalliation?? What if the other bloke had mates that went to town on the guy who threw the punch.


There is a difference from saying the guy was an innocent victim and I feel sorry for him and saying the guy who waited around was wrong

meeeeh

reprazant wrote: »

Could you point out where anybody has shown a sympathy for the guy that got punched? That whole statement, from the sympathy to the flattery, is just plain insulting.

I should say empathize, English is not my native language.

Read the post about the brain damaged guy. And if you feel insulted then good, because I feel insulted by "she should be flattered" comments and excuses about someone being drunk and stupid. Considering to how many of us it happened I'm pretty sure it's a lot more common than some would like to admit.

I like men, I like hanging out with them but I don't like how some posters here ignored this thread until it was mentioned that someone got punched. Then there was a flood of male responses, oh no, you can't do that. I can draw my own conclusions about what is considered a bit of female hysteria and what is considered proper crime.