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anti 457

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    #62
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    jackbhoy wrote: »
    Very easy for results to be skewed or inaccurate, especially if sample was not properly randomised.
    Do you think the 1 in 4 Australians who were born outside of Australia were part of the 1 in 3 Australians who were 'against' their own presence in this country?


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    #63
    danotroy
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Will Heffernan wrote: »
    Do you think the 1 in 4 Australians who were born outside of Australia were part of the 1 in 3 Australians who were 'against' their own presence in this country?

    If I can answer this question too. A big yes. I'm sitting with an ethic ukrainian right now asked him do you think Australia is racist he said its not racism its just being honest everyone in the room laughed. This is the kind of racism that is rife here.


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    #64
    danotroy
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Will Heffernan wrote: »
    You are



    The friends that I have that complain the most about 'boat people' and 'refugees' coming to Australia are my Greek and Italian born friends who are 'sick of all these bloody foreigners'.

    .

    Are you not saying this here yourself?


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    #65
    danotroy
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Will Heffernan wrote: »
    For me it was really simple. I took issue with the statement that Australia is inherently racist.

    Inherent:
    Existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute: "inherent dangers". Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic; intrinsic.

    I am not saying that there is no racism in Australia but to say that modern day Australia is intrinsically or essentially racist is just ridiculous and just stinks of ignorance.

    Ok I understand now but from my point of view racism has been here from the start of this country and it still exists in the media mcguire wasn't villafied after he made the king Kong comment he apologized and that was that. When a commentator in the uk, who had brought several black players into the main stream, called someone a lazy ****** off air he never worked again....


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    #66
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Oh ffs don't mention apes


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    #67
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    danotroy wrote: »
    Are you not saying this here yourself?
    Not at all.


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    #68
    hussey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭hussey


    Mod- errr is this thread about 457??
    Okay Dan and Will - you made you point and have gone way way off topic. Back on thread. 457 talk okay. Any ignoring of this shall be dealth with by infraction


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    #69
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    hussey wrote: »
    Mod- errr is this thread about 457??
    Okay Dan and Will - you made you point and have gone way way off topic. Back on thread. 457 talk okay. Any ignoring of this shall be dealth with by infraction
    So back to the original post then?

    Back to the discussion of Australia being an inherently racist country?

    Back to the discussion about the Australian government inciting racism in its citizens by unjustly targeting workers on 457 visas?

    Yes, I agree lets get back to talking about that.


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    #70
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    My mistake...I just read the original post. It was a discussion about how the Australian trade unions and media were in jeopardy of inciting a backlash by my fellow Australian citizens against skilled migrants in my inherently racist country.

    Yes, lets get back to talking about that by all means.


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    #71
    danotroy
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Will Heffernan wrote: »
    My mistake...I just read the original post. It was a discussion about how the Australian trade unions and media were in jeopardy of inciting a backlash by my fellow Australian citizens against skilled migrants in my inherently racist country.

    Yes, lets get back to talking about that by all means.

    I raised the issue as I personally have been verbally abused by an islander who was in tradie gear, on a train who told me to **** off home when I was chatting to my ozzie friend about what my visa options are..... my ozzie friend does not know much about visas, neither does the lay person. I am in the optinion that the current media agenda against 457's is poorly placed.


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    #72
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    danotroy wrote: »
    I raised the issue as I personally have been verbally abused by an islander who was in tradie gear, on a train who told me to **** off home when I was chatting to my ozzie friend about what my visa options are..... my ozzie friend does not know much about visas, neither does the lay person. I am in the optinion that the current media agenda against 457's is poorly placed.
    Yes and I stated that to categorise Australia as an inherently...meaning intrinsic, permanent, essential constituent or characteristically racist country is just flat out racist and offensive to me and as an Australian born Irish citizen and I refused to let such inflammatory racial vilification go unquestioned and unchallenged.

    Rather than being banned I suppose I will just ban myself from posting here and let some of the posters here get back to their passive racism and complete hypocrisy without having to uncomfortably deal someone actually pointing it out.


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    #73
    danotroy
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Will Heffernan wrote: »
    Yes and I stated that to categorise Australia as an inherently...meaning intrinsic, permanent, essential constituent or characteristically racist country is just flat out racist and offensive to me and as an Australian born Irish citizen and I refused to let such inflammatory racial vilification go unquestioned and unchallenged.

    Rather than being banned I suppose I will just ban myself from posting here and let some of the posters here get back to their passive racism and complete hypocrisy without having to uncomfortably deal someone actually pointing it out.

    Grabs coat..........


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    #74
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Will, it's not hypocrisy if failings in both societies are pointed out, neither does it absolve either from criticism.

    I find Australian racism and the denial of it as grim as the casual sectarianism and nepotism of Irish society.


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    #75
    The Aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    catbear wrote: »

    I find Australian racism and the denial of it as grim as the casual sectarianism and nepotism of Irish society.

    I agree totally with the above, but to be honest it was a flawed thread to start with, it had all the markings of a Aussie bashing "all Australians are Racist Thread" (and with very little prodding turned into a fairly spectacular one) and very little to do with a Trade Unions membership drive to get young Australians working in a Union environment, which the advertising campaign was so evidently aimed at, I don't even know how you could read racism into it myself.

    Will, stick around a while, you can articulate points far better than I could, all be it the last 2+ pages was some hard chewing


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    #76
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Will Heffernan wrote: »
    OK...if you want to go down this route how about this....how about I say that Ireland is an inherently racist country?

    Then I point to Irish government statistics on the treatment on travellers in general and members of the traveller community specifically? I don't have those on hand but I bet I can rustle the stats up in no time at all. I also think I could more than likely find some 'surveys' on Irish peoples views on travellers?

    Do you think that Ireland is an inherently racist country? Do you think that you can lump the whole country together and label Ireland as a country that is intrinsically and essentially a racist country?

    Ireland is inherently racist, and up until recently has bordered on xenophobic. It is a natural situation to end up in. It occurred because historically, people left Ireland. Ireland's top export is still Irish people. So during the Septic Tiger (I like that one, so I'll use it here) when bleedin fordners (people seeking employment and a better life) start arriving, a lot of ignorant plebs up and down the country started talking about the recent arrivals as if they were all job thieving drug dealing people smuggling scumbags. Where the reality was something entirely different. I worked with many of Eastern Europeans on various sites across the country, and after getting to know a few of them, they were just trying to make a life for themselves, not looking for Hollywood or a golden ticket, just a good days work for the best days pay they could find.

    Of course in those waves of migrants, there was the odd scumbag, the odd roid-head and a few Eastern European mafiosi, but you get the good with the bad.

    What didn't really change much in all that time, and hasn't changed is the attitude towards the travelling community (I'm gonna go all PC here as its not AH :P) They don't shower themselves in glory a lot of the time, but I could not live how they live, and probably vice versa. Different mindset, culture and attitude towards life. That gets them treated like sh!t by a significant proportion of Irish society. As they are an identifiable ethnic group, that makes it racist. so in short, the Irish are just about as racist as you can get.

    Don't take it to heart that people think your country is racist because of a minority of ignorami, face up to it, don't be part of it, but most of all, don't deny it. That is the probably the worst thing you can do:eek:


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    #77
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    The Aussie wrote: »
    I agree totally with the above, but to be honest it was a flawed thread to start with, it had all the markings of a Aussie bashing "all Australians are Racist Thread" (and with very little prodding turned into a fairly spectacular one) and very little to do with a Trade Unions membership drive to get young Australians working in a Union environment, which the advertising campaign was so evidently aimed at, I don't even know how you could read racism into it myself.

    Its the usual one trick pony when there's a change to the entitlement of visas.

    Australia is Racist
    Australia is Racist
    Australia is Racist
    Australia is Racist
    Australia is Racist

    [Eyes glaze over]

    So what if it is, have to accept the country it warts an all and as long as terrorists aren't to cut my head off am happy enough.


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    #78
    hussey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭hussey


    mod Closing this train wreak.
    Will - you could have easily defended the 457 ad, as like most people on posts 1-10, it wasn't the poster that was racist, it was danotroy jumping to that conclusion, most people seen a poster to train young Australians in the skills gaps that this country is missing.
    Or you could have talked about what advantages 457 workers bring, again this was ignored, you were hell bent on defending the racism part (which you were entitled to do), but it has turned into a train wreak of a thread. I carded you as you completely ignored this instruction.

    Danotroy, if some idiot tells you to '*** off home', then the word is actually 'xenophobia' not racism.
    To me, to say Australia is racist, 51% of people would be classed racist.
    Do you think 51% of Australians are racist? - I certainly don't, and I certainly would not judge a country based on opinions of the minority.
    (when I say racist, I don't mean someone telling a joke, I mean genuinely disliking a race)
    If this is the case, how many Irish people dislike the english race?
    Australia is certainly more diverse than Ireland, maybe I am lucky and I work in a place with many different cultures all mixing together.
    I could be guilty of living in a bubble.


This discussion has been closed.
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