That old chestnut - Water Temps

sconhome

Hopefully with the sun shine, we will start to see an increase in water temps.

We've done this topic to death across other threads, and lots of discussion around safe temps, acclimatisation etc and even referring to the Loneswimmer.com blog posts on preparing for OW swims.

Someone mentioned the UK rules on water / air temps, that we should be more like them in our approach on account of proximity and climatic conditions.

I'd also a blog piece on the topic which has a few comments on Linkedin which is where I got the following update, BTF have just announced some rule changes:

31.8g amended to:

The swim portion may be cancelled if the “real water temperature” is lower than 15°C. (Official water temperature is calculated as indicated in the chart below).

(i) the temperatures above are not always the water temperature used in the final decision. If the water temperature is lower than 22oC and the air temperature is lower than 16oC, then the adjusted value is to decrease the measured water temperature according to the next chart.

There is a chart, but basically there will be no OW races in the early part of the year in the UK, fullstop.

http://www.britishtriathlon.org/britain/documents/officials/rule_book_amendments_-_may_2013.pdf

How likely are we to see the same here I wonder?

BTH

amphkingwest wrote: »

Hopefully with the sun shine, we will start to see an increase in water temps.

We've done this topic to death across other threads, and lots of discussion around safe temps, acclimatisation etc and even referring to the Loneswimmer.com blog posts on preparing for OW swims.

Someone mentioned the UK rules on water / air temps, that we should be more like them in our approach on account of proximity and climatic conditions.

I'd also a blog piece on the topic which has a few comments on Linkedin which is where I got the following update, BTF have just announced some rule changes:



There is a chart, but basically there will be no OW races in the early part of the year in the UK, fullstop.

http://www.britishtriathlon.org/britain/documents/officials/rule_book_amendments_-_may_2013.pdf

How likely are we to see the same here I wonder?

Without having read the thing in its entirety, does it state no OW until water temps are 16deg and air temps are 14? Do they think we're all soft?

This would certainly put an end to May OW races, and would also leave a lot of summer events in doubt too.

Oryx

I agree that those standards will rule out most ow events in this climate, based on the summers we have had recently. Far too strict levels imo. I think they need to approach this differently from the pov of athlete ability and acclimatisation.

Kurt Godel

amphkingwest wrote: »

Hopefully with the sun shine, we will start to see an increase in water temps.

We've done this topic to death across other threads, and lots of discussion around safe temps, acclimatisation etc and even referring to the Loneswimmer.com blog posts on preparing for OW swims.

Someone mentioned the UK rules on water / air temps, that we should be more like them in our approach on account of proximity and climatic conditions.

I'd also a blog piece on the topic which has a few comments on Linkedin which is where I got the following update, BTF have just announced some rule changes:



There is a chart, but basically there will be no OW races in the early part of the year in the UK, fullstop.

http://www.britishtriathlon.org/britain/documents/officials/rule_book_amendments_-_may_2013.pdf

How likely are we to see the same here I wonder?

More cheers from the have-a-go bunnies who don't fancy the swim but still want the Triathlon medal, a retrograde step for anyone actually interested in the swim part of Tri, and howls of derision from our OW swim buddies who see we need to be protected from sub 15degree water temperatures, in a wetsuit (for fecks sake).

BTF are making up rules without regard for geography or climate- how important was it to introduce a rule saying no wetsuits are permitted above 28 degrees water temperature? When has the OW ever been over 28 degrees in Britain? I'm hoping there's something lost on me in understanding this chart, and these amended rules, can't fathom the logic behind them at all.

tunney

Go onto the Triathy thread, see the post about swimming in shortie wetsuits and what not.

The issue here is that the rules have to cater for the one off "likely to die in cold water" athlete and the more experienced athlete.

Lowest common denominator. Triathlon is viewed as a must do thing now. As in a must do one and that's it.

Keeping these people safe is going to be the priority and a graduated series of licences will not be considered until its too late.

PGF

Are shorties allowed in triathlon?

The water temperature at Rosses Point was nice at the weekend and it was (I believe) 14 degrees. There were people in the water for > 50 minutes.

MrCreosote

The season should be shifted on a month. May is not summer. July, August and September should be the busy months on the calendar.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

MrCreosote wrote: »

The season should be shifted on a month. May is not summer. July, August and September should be the busy months on the calendar.

I agree with this, less threat then for OW races to be binned. FWIW i have been in the sea on Monday and a lake on Tuesday. Whilst a little chilly at 10 and 12 degrees its fine, this is coming from someone who is as soft as a marshmallow when it comes to cold water.

tunney

Henrik Bitter Peanut wrote: »

I agree with this, less threat then for OW races to be binned. FWIW i have been in the sea on Monday and a lake on Tuesday. Whilst a little chilly at 10 and 12 degrees its fine, this is coming from someone who is as soft as a marshmallow when it comes to cold water.

"OOOOHHHHHH the water hurts my ears."

woody1

Henrik Bitter Peanut wrote: »

I agree with this, less threat then for OW races to be binned. FWIW i have been in the sea on Monday and a lake on Tuesday. Whilst a little chilly at 10 and 12 degrees its fine, this is coming from someone who is as soft as a marshmallow when it comes to cold water.

same as that, ive been in twice in the last few weeks, first times ever and from the chat going on here i thought it was going to be life or death as regards temperature.. it was cold but nothing that would put me off.. it was life or death in my head from an inexperience point of view but thats why im getting in in the first place.. from what i can see and from chatting to people i know an awful lot leave actualy getting in the water until the event , which is lunacy to me.. and then they freak.. il be in open water at least 6 times before my little sprint swim.. think a lot overestimate their swim ability too..

BTH

woody1 wrote: »

il be in open water at least 6 times before my little sprint swim..

This should be mandatory for all competitors.

Kurt Godel

BTH wrote: »

This should be mandatory for all competitors.

OW competency swim certificate needed for entry to Tris; its the only way to go. You either get one grandfathered having completed a same-length Tri (ie. TI records show you completed a Oly, you're covered for everything up to an Oly), or newbies need to complete a TI-approved OW swim for that distance under the eye of a competent and certified swim instructor.

If TI are going to close swims in the name of "safety" (temperature, chop, current, TO call, whatever), let them get proactive about swim safety, rather than holding the rest of the field to ransom based on the capabilities or otherwise of the weakest swimmer on the day.

woody1

BTH wrote: »

This should be mandatory for all competitors.

yeah well its only because i got such a shock at the difference when i first got into the lake..and i only got in so far in advance because i would be somewhat nervous of water in general... but yeah i think if there was a system in place where tri clubs in conjunction with tri ireland organised o/w training sessions youd see a lot of inexperienced people signing up.. big job though.. in fairness some clubs are very pro active.. swinford putting practice sessions in place in callow lake prior to humbert tri.. my own club starting to get moving on its own sessions too.. im just lucky that im married to a strong swimmer that can come along with me so i can do my own thing anyway

PGF

If TI were to make prior OW experience mandatory they (or clubs) should put on some 300-500m practice races during the summer for beginners. Like what Triathy are doing I suppose...

Kurt Godel

Scratch the surface, something isn't right here. Way too much of a change.

BTF 2013 rules
BTF 2013 amended rules (as linked in this thread)

Well thank Christ for that, these amendments only apply to Paratriathletes. Everyone else, get back in the bloody water. Amphibkingwest, can I suggest you do a "buy one silicone swim cap get one free" as penance;)

sconhome

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Scratch the surface, something isn't right here. Way too much of a change.

BTF 2013 rules
BTF 2013 amended rules (as linked in this thread)

Well thank Christ for that, these amendments only apply to Paratriathletes. Everyone else, get back in the bloody water. Amphibkingwest, can I suggest you do a "buy one silicone swim cap get one free" as penance;)

:o

Fair play KG, in fairness I didn't take the time to dig into the full rules yesterday to check the back story fully, so thankyou for the correction.

I'll have extra penance swim hats at the events over the season.

Oryx

Thank god we have Sherlock Holmes on the case.

mossym

grew up swimming in lough derg, jumping off the bridge in killaloe
took up scuba diving, did an awful lot of diving, snorkelling.
also wakeboarded, so well used to being in the lake

but....apart from a dip in the ocean while on hols every year, it's been a few years since i'd done any ow swimming

went into lough derg last night to get some ow practise in before athy this weekend. i know i should have more done ,but work travel scuppered that. I'm doing the sprint, and know i can easily handle the distance

but it still took me a few minutes to feel okay in the water last night, and i never really got comfortable. it was quite choppy with the wind, a lot different to what it normally is, which didn't help. but i have no real fear(an awful lot of respect though) for OW, and it was still an eye opener .



fully agree with the license .i'm not sure about the linking to previous distance though, it makes sense over the shorter distances, but i'd have thought that someone that gets through a half ironman had proven they are comfortable enough and strong enough in water to tackle a full IM swim without having to get a new license. could be wrong there


personally, really happy i got into the lake last night just to get that under the belt. the fact that it was choppy will stand to me, but i can't imagine what someone who didn;t have the ow history i have(wihch isn't anything special, but stands for somethin), has all their swimming done in a pool so far will handle the weekend. fairly new to tri, but really beginning to see the reality in what some of the more experienced heads on here are saying


oh btw, the water temp was fine, never felt really cold at all

Kurt Godel

amphkingwest wrote: »

:o

Fair play KG, in fairness I didn't take the time to dig into the full rules yesterday to check the back story fully, so thankyou for the correction.

To be honest, I was doing myself a favour by checking- I've written to TI asking if they have considered adopting the BTF rules, as they would be more applicable to our climate. Wouldn't do my case any good at all if BTF were moving to heated pool swims only!

To follow on with the topic of the thread: I think less stringent temperature rules, and a swim competency cert, are the way to go. (TI have said they will consider this if the subject comes up for review). I don't just want to be wailing about something on the internet, so I'd intend bring a proposal for debate at an AGM. But there's no point in reinventing the wheel, so does anyone know if this sort of thing has been debated and/or rejected before?

griffin100

The more barriers that you put in the way to race entry the more likely it is that more races will become non TI approved events and / or there will be an increase in race entries by newbies for the non TI events.

I don't disagree with the concept of pre-qualifying for swims. I'm sick of hearing the mantra that we should be considering the weakest swimmer in the pack when we decide if swim conditions are ok - no we shouldn't. A TO / RD should be able to assume that all swimmers in the pack can swim the distance comfortably, have been in OW at least once before and consequently should only have to consider the conditions on their own merit. I'm sorry but if you cant swim the distance or haven't done the training you have no business doing the swim.

Case in point look at the swimmer in the yellow hat who comes into shot at 10 seconds. This guy looks like he's never swam in his life before, let alone in rough OW which when doing this event you have to expect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smX3YKyYvHw