Depression and suicides because of bullying at work

kerry4sam

ilovebiology wrote: »

Hi all.

I am feeling particularly low at the moment, and have decided to post here in After Hours, as the thread that Dev posted has been accepted and discussed by alot of people, without them been ridiculed. I think the thread is so important, to openly discuss how people are feeling, and to talk about depression.

I have suffered, and am continuing to suffer from depression. The reason I developed the illness on a very SEVERE level was because of bullying and harassment in the workplace. I suffer with another medical condition where I am sick from time to time (A relapse would just hit me any time it wants, and I would be really sick, or in alot of pain.)

Anyways, I told my employer about this, and got my job. I suffered a terrible relapse a while into my job, and was sneered at, ignored, and not believed I was in so much pain. I was not believed I was sick, and in so much pain because you can't see pain that is inside a person, and therefore alot of the time you are not believed you are sick or in pain. I was in and out of work for a while, and from that point onwards I was treated so badly at work because of it.

My colleagues sneered at me, ignored me, passed upsetting remarks about people being sick. That was bad enough, but my manager had meetings with me, and harassed me so much, she put me crying all the time. I was terrified I was going to lose my job for something that wasn't my fault.

From that point onwards I went through hell and back at work. At first I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then I realised I should not be treated like this because of an illness that's not my fault, and I was perfectly able to work. So I decided to fight back. I bought law books, and learned the law, and used it where I used to work. I got a union involved who were helpful for a while, and then overnight, were of no help. I was subjected to constant intimidation, harassment, my work scrutinised, and made do really terrible work.

I began to drink just to cope with what was going on. I began to see a counsellor, who stopped me from becoming a full blown alcoholic, which I will always be grateful for. I stood up to those who I worked with, but the more I stood up to them the worse they got. There was one manager who spoke to me in such an intimidating way that it was in a way that a man should never speak to a girl, as it was so aggressive and intimidating.

I developed severe anxiety and depression, and not only was it so hard to try and deal with that but I was also fighting a constant battle where I worked. I lost a load of weight (Not that I'm fat in anyway!) but was skin and bones. I suffered a very serious nervous breakdown, and was very suicidal at the time. That time was the worst in my entire life, and trying to fight not taking my own life was extremely difficult. I cried all the time, and was in a dark dark hole. It was the most difficult and terrifying time in my life. I became better, and got back working again. I was again subjected to the same terrible treatment, all because I stood up for my rights, and to try and get some acceptance at work. I became extremely ill again, and was back to square one. Back in hell again.

I got a legal team, and issued my employer with legal proceedings for the High Court, and finally got the help I so desperately needed to fight on my behalf, and to try and get some justice for what I was so wrongly put through. I had absolutely no life. I was very very ill. Unable to eat, scared and afraid every single day I went into work, and on some occasions I was so ill with anxiety that I would be getting sick at work. I had no social life, and spent my time outside of work, trying to recover from what I was going through at work.

I was not paid when I was sick, and therefore became in a severe financial trouble, and unable to see a counsellor for help, and I became worse. Anyways, I went to some other courts and I won my smaller cases I had against them. My knowledge of the law scared the hell out of them, but it didn't stop them from being so evil towards me.

My high court case was settled the first day of the trial at the High Court. I no longer work there, and am at present recovering from the entire thing. When I think back on it, all I can see is blackness, and absolute hell. I sometimes wonder how I survived for so long, just to stand up to them, and not be forced out of my job, but it was pure determination, and fighting for what was right, and fighting for what was wrong too. It took a long time, but I won my case, and got justice for what I was so wrongly, and illegally put through.

There is something that is HUGELY ignored, and seems to be invisible in this country at the moment, and that is the issue of workplace bullying. Every single person I know has been exposed to some form of it in the workplace, and over the past few years, it has excelled at a HUGE rate, especially with the recession, where employers are putting employees through exceptional levels of stress, strain and pressure. Employers refuse to deal with the problems that staff have, and if the issue of bullying in the workplace is raised to a manager it is ignored, and the bullying continues or gets even worse.

There are many people, who if they were in my position, with what I went through, would have 1 million % have left there job, or there is the odd person like myself, so stands up, and says NO I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE THIS, AND I WILL NOT BE FORCED OUT OF MY JOB. Employers are getting away with absolute MURDER, and this is an issue I feel that needs to be raised and discussed.

The issue of bullying at school has been brought to the attention through the media, but workplace bullying has not. There are people who are forced to stay in their jobs, and are forced to "Put up with it" because they are afraid of making a complaint, afraid of making it worse, or afraid of losing their job. They have the added pressure of trying to take care of a family, trying to sustain financial pressures like having a mortage, and are put through this, pushed into depression, and possible suicide because it is too much for a person. Again, I feel the issue of workplace bullying needs to be raised, and discussed, as I ask you this: -

How many suicides over the past few years have been because of workplace bullying?


I hope this issue can be discussed as openly as the issue of depression in this forum. Thanks for reading my post.

gozunda wrote: »

...
BULLYING DESTROYS PEOPLE'S LIVES

Bullying is unfortunately ignored in this country as the crime it actually is - with no criminal offence being committed under the statute book - believe it or not actual physical assault in the 18 century was also seen as a non criminal offence. - that had happily changed. It's about time there is zero tolerance for proven bullying - only then will this rampant behaviour be dealt worth properly.

I had followed this thread from the outset for my own personal reasons that are still on-going too with one particular place of work where I would volunteer!

Just hoping that you are okay ilovebiology. Feel free to post back in here or via pm if you like Stay strong whatever else you do .

I've taken on hobbies and sporting activities and trying to push myself physically this year while I excelled in University by Graduating with a 1st class honours in Psychology while dealing with everything last-year. Horrible situation for anyone to be in. See my own similar situation right here :mad: Still on-going too but could be interesting times ahead though for me and my own voluntary-work with that organisation.

kepler_johan

Hello ilovebiology. Just wondering if now that you've gone through this whole experience and gained a lot of legal knowledge about workplace rights etc. have you considered using your experience to help others, or to start something along the lines of a helpline? i.e. Turn your horrible past into a positive for people who are dealing with similar problems in their work???
K.

jimgoose

Of all the things on this green Earth, I think the thing I detest most of all is a sneering, snivelling little bully-boy. Unfortunately the problem is exacerbated in these evil days of "You're lucky to have a job!!", etc. Fair moxy, OP, for staying the patient course and getting your due eventually. It must have been horrific, going through that. It's always those who find themselves, for whatever reason, weak and vulnerable that get seventeen shades kicked out of them by various Hard Men(TM).

Ye who be Out There - if you are a bully, the Goose has a message for you: Cool it. :mad:

Siosleis

jimgoose wrote: »

Of all the things on this green Earth, I think the thing I detest most of all is a sneering, snivelling little bully-boy. Unfortunately the problem is exacerbated in these evil days of "You're lucky to have a job!!", etc. Fair moxy, OP, for staying the patient course and getting your due eventually. It must have been horrific, going through that. It's always those who find themselves, for whatever reason, weak and vulnerable that get seventeen shades kicked out of them by various Hard Men(TM).

Ye who be Out There - if you are a bully, the Goose has a message for you: Cool it. :mad:

Try bring a woman being "bullied" by other women.It does not exist when you are over the age of 25 apparently.

jimgoose

Siosleis wrote: »

Try bring a woman being "bullied" by other women.It does not exist when you are over the age of 25 apparently.

I can well imagine. I also imagine it exists at all ages. I am an equal-opportunities detester of bullies, BTW - non-gender specific. :cool:

Siosleis

jimgoose wrote: »

I can well imagine. I also imagine it exists at all ages. I am an equal-opportunities detester of bullies, BTW - non-gender Bitches.Utter bitches.

Ray Palmer

OP a lot of respect for your plight.

In saying that I think to call this an issue of bullying might be over simplistic. You have two serious health issues that make it difficult to work in most places. Not excusing the company's behaviour as you described it but your judgment would seriously be impeded during a depressive episode.

You have an illness that makes you more prone to feeling bullied and has a likely dramatic effect on you. When somebody bullies you it will be increased by your own issues. This is not you as such but your illness.

To people you will appear overly sensitive and the truth is you probably are. It doesn't mean you don't have the right to be treated correctly. The problem is as you know people can't read feelings. You have no idea of the level of the frustration other may feel or their own mental health.

If somebody committed suicide with a history of mental illness as a result of bullying I would be inclined to blame the illness.

I am sure some people will be horrified by my view or for saying these things. To be clear I have had my own mental health issues and have been through similar. Depression will make you overly sensitive and you can't expect the world to adapt around you. You need to learn how to take care of yourself and avoid triggers. For some people that means they are simply unable to work to their full range of abilities.

Bully in the work place is common and should be stamped out but when you have politician and media doing the same thing in public I doubt that will happen.

angeline

Ray Palmer wrote: »

OP a lot of respect for your plight.

In saying that I think to call this an issue of bullying might be over simplistic. You have two serious health issues that make it difficult to work in most places. Not excusing the company's behaviour as you described it but your judgment would seriously be impeded during a depressive episode.

You have an illness that makes you more prone to feeling bullied and has a likely dramatic effect on you. When somebody bullies you it will be increased by your own issues. This is not you as such but your illness.

To people you will appear overly sensitive and the truth is you probably are. It doesn't mean you don't have the right to be treated correctly. The problem is as you know people can't read feelings. You have no idea of the level of the frustration other may feel or their own mental health.

If somebody committed suicide with a history of mental illness as a result of bullying I would be inclined to blame the illness.

I am sure some people will be horrified by my view or for saying these things. To be clear I have had my own mental health issues and have been through similar. Depression will make you overly sensitive and you can't expect the world to adapt around you. You need to learn how to take care of yourself and avoid triggers. For some people that means they are simply unable to work to their full range of abilities.

Bully in the work place is common and should be stamped out but when you have politician and media doing the same thing in public I doubt that will happen.

I totally disagree with this post and find it highly misinformed. So, if someone with a history of depression commits suicide because of bullying, your take on it is to totally dismiss the person's very real experience of bullying, well, because, sure didn't he/she suffer depression. Bullying is very real and exists in most organisations. To suggest that a person who suffers depression should not be taken as seriously with an accusation of bullying compared to someone who has never disclosed depression is very backward in thinking in my view. May I suggest that bullying in itself can actually lead to depression along with many other ailments. Also depression is hugely common in the workplace now.

ugly_mug

Siosleis wrote: »

Try bring a woman being "bullied" by other women.It does not exist when you are over the age of 25 apparently.

try being a male , being bullied by a female superior , talk about emasculating and degrading

Ray Palmer

angeline wrote: »

I totally disagree with this post and find it highly misinformed. So, if someone with a history of depression commits suicide because of bullying, your take on it is to totally dismiss the person's very real experience of bullying, well, because, sure didn't he/she suffer depression. Bullying is very real and exists in most organisations. To suggest that a person who suffers depression should not be taken as seriously with an accusation of bullying compared to someone who has never disclosed depression is very backward in thinking in my view. May I suggest that bullying in itself can actually lead to depression along with many other ailments. Also depression is hugely common in the workplace now.

Maybe if you read what I said you would realize I am extremely well informed. I never said to dismiss or suggest if the person has depression they can't be bullied. Unless you were there you have no idea if the OP's experience is 100% accurate. I am not saying one way or the other just that being depressed will taint a persons view. I can tell you now I know I cannot trust my perception at different times of my life. By it's very nature bullying relies on perception.

I am sure depression can be triggered by bullying and never have suggested it couldn't. The OP is not like that it is a person with two serious health issues. Being aware of that for the OP is very important.

OP
By no means do I wish to offend or belittle your own experience. All your feels and emotions are as valid as anybody else's. I said what I said out of experience and concern it is not clear that mental illness and bullying are not linked. Not everybody with mental illness will be bullied nor people being bullied will become mentally ill should be pointed out.

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

...
OP
By no means do I wish to offend or belittle your own experience. All your feels and emotions are as valid as anybody else's. I said what I said out of experience and concern it is not clear that mental illness and bullying are not linked. Not everybody with mental illness will be bullied nor people being bullied will become mentally ill should be pointed out.

Excusing your use of a double negative rendering the meaning of your statement realitivly ambigous - I will add to this that this is simply a completely irrelevant example and an illlogical fallacy

Your theory would appear to extend to the similar logic that with other forms of violence against the individual such as rape and subsequent mental illness - that neither can these be ever be linked either???? There is absolutely no follow through of for this bizarre conclusion

Extreme violence whether physical or psychological used against a person will in all liklyhood cause someform of mental illness to develop - whether short term or long term - this may be in the form of depression or even PTSD.

Even where an individual is suffering from another form of illness - mental or otherwise - it is indeed unfortunate that pathetic individuals in our society may see this as a targeting mechanism to attack others they see as weaker than themselves and such assault will inevitably will cause further damage to that person whether physchiological or physically attacked.

There is absolutely no excuse for any individual behaving in such a manner towards another. The fact that bullying behaviour is NOT yet a criminal offence is an significant omission in our legal system and something that will hopefully come in time. Unfortunately there are just one too many Neanderthals out there who believe bludgeoning others for their own amusement or personal gratification is in any way acceptable and bizarely refuse to accept bullying as an actual assault on the person that causes real and significant harm.

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

Excusing your use of a double negative rendering the meaning of your statement realitivly ambigous - I will add to this that this is simply a completely irrelevant example and an illlogical fallacy
.

Maybe I am not being 100% clear. I am stating bullying isn't inevitable for somebody with depression nor a bullied person will suffer a mental illness.

Having gone through very similar to the OP I have talked with mental health professionals. In a very delicate way they point out my feeling of been bullied may very well have been due to my own health. My own behaviour may even have drawn aggressive behaviour towards me. Now I am not a professional in the field so forgive my clumsy approach to point out something I found useful to be aware of.

I can assure you that your post would be very upsetting if I was ill right now. I still think it is overly aggressive, condescending and just generally rude for somebody who is trying to be open and honest. You may not be aware that talking to somebody like that in work would certainly feel like bullying. Forums are a different world and seem to let be loose so I hope you would not talk to somebody like that in person.


By no means have I said bullying is acceptable in fact I think it is allowed all over the place. Politician and the media do it all the time. There is no way it will become illegal as it is actually a part of human nature, it isn't even conscious stuff a lot of the time.

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Maybe I am not being 100% clear. I am stating bullying isn't inevitable for somebody with depression nor a bullied person will suffer a mental illness.

Having gone through very similar to the OP I have talked with mental health professionals. In a very delicate way they point out my feeling of been bullied may very well have been due to my own health. My own behaviour may even have drawn aggressive behaviour towards me. Now I am not a professional in the field so forgive my clumsy approach to point out something I found useful to be aware of.

I can assure you that your post would be very upsetting if I was ill right now. I still think it is overly aggressive, condescending and just generally rude for somebody who is trying to be open and honest. You may not be aware that talking to somebody like that in work would certainly feel like bullying. Forums are a different world and seem to let be loose so I hope you would not talk to somebody like that in person.


By no means have I said bullying is acceptable in fact I think it is allowed all over the place. Politician and the media do it all the time. There is no way it will become illegal as it is actually a part of human nature, it isn't even conscious stuff a lot of the time.

Firstly I will state that No person ever deserves to be bullied. And Bullying is a known factor for a wide range of health issues including depression.

For the record bullying is defined as

"repeated inappropriate behaviour, direct or indirect, whether verbal, physical or otherwise, conducted by one or more persons against another or others, at the place of work and/or in the course of employment, which could reasonably be regarded as undermining the individual‘s right to dignity at work."

So no my disagreement with your previous analysis of the OPs situation is not as you described. Please note.

And being truthful and honest is neither rude or condensending in any discussion.

To say that someone is bullied because of their health situation is the same rabid excuse that gives lie to as "ah sure she was looking for it wearing that skirt" type deranged argument used to excuse rapists and their ilk.

As for bullying being sonehow excusable and outside the law because it is 'part of human nature' that is another absolute trite get of jail excuse - lets look at other examples of human nature such as physical violence and murder, but that does not mean that this should preclude legal sanctions including the criminalising of physiological abuse that causes harm.

I do wonder if as you say you have been bullied then why attempt to be an excuser and apologist of those who attempt deliberately to destroy others lives and careers through premeditated and often vicious behaviour given the arguments for excusing bullying you have put forward

Bullying has been well defined and its effects are clearly documented and studied. It is of some interest that physical assault was not a criminal offence until the early eighteenth century and was seen as purely a 'civil' matter in the legal code. Thankfully this was changed so yes I believe such abuse whether it is an intrinsic part of human nature or not will become criminalised - this has already happened in other countries so there is some hope for this sick and sorry legal system that presently ignores the criminalisation of such behaviour.

And before there is any argument as to oh sure what is bullying - just as a consensual kiss is not rape neither are normal ranges of behaviour be ever considered bullying - please see the definition of bullying for further clarification

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

I'm afraid once again the use of double negatives in your reply makes it at best difficult to understand what you are actually saying here.


Firstly i will state that No person ever deserves to be bullied. And Bullying more often than not will cause a wide range of health issues including depression.

To say that you were bullied because of your health situation is the same rabid excuse that gives lie to as "ah sure she was looking for it wearing that skirt" type deranged argument used to excuse rapists and their ilk.

As for bullying being

I have no idea what double negative you are talking about this time.

I never said I was bullied due to my health issues. Aggressive behaviour receives aggressive behaviour. Somebody in a depressive episode can be very aggressive and may also bully people. It is no where near the same as a rapist excuse. To say somebody who has openly said they have mental health issue is "deranged" doesn't exactly show any understanding on your side.

It is also quite insulting to suggest somebody suffering from stress related to bullying is mentally ill. Stress will have similar effects as those with actual mental illness it doesn't mean they have a permanent condition.

I'll leave it that as you have shown no understanding and people reading what I have said will hopefully understand me better than you. I am done I have been more than open and revealing about myself and experience.

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I have no idea what double negative you are talking about this time.

I never said I was bullied due to my health issues. Aggressive behaviour receives aggressive behaviour. Somebody in a depressive episode can be very aggressive and may also bully people. It is no where near the same as a rapist excuse. To say somebody who has openly said they have mental health issue is "deranged" doesn't exactly show any understanding on your side.

It is also quite insulting to suggest somebody suffering from stress related to bullying is mentally ill. Stress will have similar effects as those with actual mental illness it doesn't mean they have a permanent condition.

I'll leave it that as you have shown no understanding and people reading what I have said will hopefully understand me better than you. I am done I have been more than open and revealing about myself and experience.

No idea how you managed to reply to my post before I had finished copying and finalising my reply - please read the Full post. Thanks

Btw this is what you said about being bullied

"Having gone through very similar to the OP I have talked with mental health professionals. In a very delicate way they point out my feeling of been bullied may very well have been due to my own health. My own behaviour may even have drawn aggressive behaviour towards me.

IF you actually read my post you will note it was the argument that was deranged AND not any person - so do not attempt to misquote as you have done - ok

Neither Did I suggest those who are bullied are mentally ill - what I clearly said was that bullying often caused health problems such as depression etc
- again do reread what was written

No health issue including depression and other conditions has to be permanent - again read what was written

Your logic that a bullied person who develops depression will go on to bully others because they are depressed and by your estimation therefore likely to be aggressive is quite obviously a blatant attempt at amateur psychology and frankly a disgusting insult to those who have been bullied and had their lives destroyed by those who chose to undertake this type of behaviour.

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

No idea how you managed to reply to my post before I had finished copying and finalising my reply - please read the Full post. Thanks

You posted it up

You added nothing and I stand by reply.

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You posted it up

You added nothing and I stand by reply.

No it was not posted as you claim - the post was in the process of been written - so not too sure how half of it managed to be half posted tbh.

DO actually read the final
post to see what was written and not what you may believe or presume was to be written

In my opinion What you wrote in reply is both disingenuous and an insult to all those who have been bullied.

See the complete post if you need clarification

But do take the time to actually read what was written and not attempt to inaccurately paraphrase

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

No health issue including depression and other conditions has to be permanent - again read what was written

This on it's own shows you have no understanding of mental illness or health.
You have misrepresented what I said several times. The most ridiculous is to say I said depressed people become bullies. I said some depressed people may bully. Hugely different

Going back and adding massive extra text is also disingenuous. Massively aggressive in your posts is not helpful. This is no longer a rational discussion I am truly done now

EDIT: Again you suddenly added more text. Are you just sitting there seathig?

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

This on it's own shows you have no understanding of mental illness or health.
You have misrepresented what I said several times. The most ridiculous is to say I said depressed people become bullies. I said some depressed people may bully. Hugely different

Going back and adding massive extra text is also disingenuous. Massively aggressive in your posts is not helpful. This is no longer a rational discussion I am truly done now

EDIT: Again you suddenly added more text. Are you just sitting there seathig?

Well you are editing your posts !

That first brief post was clearly unfinished no idea how it got posted prior to completion to be honest as explained - if you wish to fire off replies without reading what was actually written then that's your problem I'm afraid.

I can only take from your declared opinions that you believe bullying is 1) normal 2) acceptable 3) bullies create their own problems

I don't agree with your conclusions
but it clearly shows for all your declarations you know absolutely nothing about bullying or the impacts it has on people's lives.

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

I can only take from your declared opinions that you believe bullying is 1) normal 2) acceptable 3) bullies create their own problems

.

Completely wrong and I doubt many people would read my posts and come to the conclusion you have.

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Completely wrong and I doubt many people would read my posts and come to the conclusion you have.

It is of course comforting to be one owns judge.....

But I am not the only poster to disagree with your stated opinions on this thread ....

angeline wrote: »

I totally disagree with this post and find it highly misinformed. So, if someone with a history of depression commits suicide because of bullying, your take on it is to totally dismiss the person's very real experience of bullying, well, because, sure didn't he/she suffer depression. Bullying is very real and exists in most organisations. To suggest that a person who suffers depression should not be taken as seriously with an accusation of bullying compared to someone who has never disclosed depression is very backward in thinking in my view. May I suggest that bullying in itself can actually lead to depression along with many other ailments. Also depression is hugely common in the workplace now.

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

It is of course comforting to be one owns judge.....

But I am not the only poster to disagree with your stated opinions on this thread ....

The fact two people think I meant or said something other than my intent doesn't mean they are right. I have clarified I did not mean or say the things you have accused me of. I don't have to judge my opinion to tell you that you have incorrectly stated my opinion.

The fact you have posted the opinions that directly contradict what I said pretty much proves the point you have selectively quoted me and also misinterpret what I have said. You simply don't understand what I have said and seem incapable. Your post have been nothing but aggressive

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The fact two people think I meant or said something other than my intent doesn't mean they are right. I have clarified I did not mean or say the things you have accused me of. I don't have to judge my opinion to tell you that you have incorrectly stated my opinion.

You said: Originally Posted by Ray Palmer "Completely wrong and I doubt many people would read my posts and come to the conclusion you have."

You didn't judge your opinion in this instance you judged what had I said in my post. Please keep up

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The fact you have posted the opinions that directly contradict what I said pretty much proves the point you have selectively quoted me and also misinterpret what I have said. You simply don't understand what I have said and seem incapable. Your post have been nothing but aggressive

I quoted one other poster as an example after you made your claim that others would not disagree with you. ... Well guess what there are those that actually do disagree with you. Disagreeing with an opinion does not make it aggressive - this is simply a statement

You have judged your own opinions / claims as correct - as I stated this is a very easy thing to do unfortunately this does not make your arguments any more valid than originally stated

Where I have posted an argument that contradicts what you have claimed there is no following logic that says I must have misquoted - I have clearly stated where what you said and then later claimed you didn't say with given examples - something you unfortunately failed to do.

Example:

You Said:
Originally Posted by Ray Palmer
"Having gone through very similar to the OP I have talked with mental health professionals. In a very delicate way they point out my feeling of been bullied may very well have been due to my own health. My own behaviour may even have drawn aggressive behaviour towards me. Now I am not a professional in the field so forgive my clumsy approach to point out something I found useful to be aware of. "

Then you said:
Originally Posted by Ray Palmer

"I never said I was bullied due to my health issues."

If that's misquoting then I must be speaking Swahili


Unfortunately you completely ignored a large number of my points that contradicted your claims / opinions & you provided few if any real clarifications or objectivity

And on a number of other points you simply restated the same bizarre statements again without the benefit of any logic and that I and at least one other poster pointed out as being misinformed.

angeline

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Maybe I am not being 100% clear. I am stating bullying isn't inevitable for somebody with depression nor a bullied person will suffer a mental illness.

Having gone through very similar to the OP I have talked with mental health professionals. In a very delicate way they point out my feeling of been bullied may very well have been due to my own health. My own behaviour may even have drawn aggressive behaviour towards me.

Bullying is a very real experience, just like being assaulted physically is a very real experience. Just because someone is suffering a depressive episode does not mean that he or she was not actually physically assaulted but that due to his or her illness it was merely a 'feeling' of having been assaulted. There are very few health professionals out there that would take such a dismissive view to a bullying experience. The OP stated clearly that the severe depression was in fact caused by bullying and harrassment in the workplace.

Femme_Fatale

HondaSami wrote: »

Your post is a little confusing to me, you went up against your employer and won, this is good is it not?

But the bullying was bad. Not sure what's confusing.

Elephant Man from china

Seems like all you wanted was acceptance and for people to make a fuss over you..

It's possible you came across like an attention seeker

Banned

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

Example:

You Said:
Originally Posted by Ray Palmer
"Having gone through very similar to the OP I have talked with mental health professionals. In a very delicate way they point out my feeling of been bullied may very well have been due to my own health. My own behaviour may even have drawn aggressive behaviour towards me. Now I am not a professional in the field so forgive my clumsy approach to point out something I found useful to be aware of. "

Then you said:
Originally Posted by Ray Palmer

"I never said I was bullied due to my health issues."

If that's misquoting then I must be speaking Swahili
.

Yeah you have a problem understanding what definitive statement is. The use of the word "may" seems to be an issue with you. I didn't say I was bullied due to my health I said I was told by a health care professional that it may be why I felt bullied. You are claiming you know better. I'll trust my psychiatrist thanks very much.

So yes you failed to understand what I said and then criticised me on your misperception in an extremely aggressive way. So ignoring a rant about something I didn't say is no surprise really. It isn't the only thing where you seemed to ignore talking about possible issues and took them as definitive statements so yes you are misquoting me.

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yeah you have a problem understanding what definitive statement is. The use of the word "may" seems to be an issue with you. I didn't say I was bullied due to my health I said I was told by a health care professional that it may be why I felt bullied. You are claiming you know better. I'll trust my psychiatrist thanks very much.

So yes you failed to understand what I said and then criticised me on your misperception in an extremely aggressive way. So ignoring a rant about something I didn't say is no surprise really. It isn't the only thing where you seemed to ignore talking about possible issues and took them as definitive statements so yes you are misquoting me.

You appear to be getter rather off the point here

That's was your quote which you appeared to agree with and then denied having made. End of story.

Please remember disagreeing with an opinion or finding such an obvious flaw in your argument does not mean that this in any way aggressive. Perhaps that's your perception. But its your oerception and it is obviously unsupportable as I have stated my views clearly and with examples - something you appeared not to do.

Anyway the point of this post is neither about you or I but about the OPs very real description of the suffering he endured at the hands of bully's.

Yes we must make our own judgements on what the OP related but to deride his very obviously painful and insidious experience amounts to a complete lack of insight into what bullying really is and what it can do to the individual.

I do hope that the OP has had some improvements in his life following from his success in tackling his bullies - but what is certain is that this country legal system complwtly fails the victims of bullying in that it does not protect the victims rights against such harm and fails to criminalise such behaviour.

The OP importantly also asked about suicide linked to workplace bullying - this is a something that I believe must be accounted for and workplaces where workers should feel safe must be made accountable for where such bullying proven to have arisen as a result of substandard workplace and management practices.

Ray Palmer

gozunda wrote: »

That's was your quote which you appeared to agree with and then denied having made. End of story.

.

WOW!
How you can not grasp the difference at this point is amazing. If you can't understand how a statement about what I was told about how my judgment MAY be effected is not the same as saying it WAS the reason I was bullied shows a complete lack of understanding the English language. It isn't the only concept you failed to grasp and your aggressive manner is extreme. You are not simply disagreeing.

Maybe it as simple as you not understanding that somebody who suffers from depression may have a depressive episode without any trigger what so ever. These depressive episodes can have a detrimental effect on personal relationships. How other people react to this is then out of your control, some people may very well get angry and choose to bully somebody as a result. They may even find allies from others who also feel slighted by the behaviour. Still not acceptable but understandable and something I was told by my doctor to watch out for. Specifically if I start feeling bullied by somebody to try and do a neutral assessment preferable not with a friend who will just agree . Are you saying you know better than mental health professionals?

gozunda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

WOW!
How you can not grasp the difference at this point is amazing. If you can't understand how a statement about what I was told about how my judgment MAY be effected is not the same as saying it WAS the reason I was bullied shows a complete lack of understanding the English language. It isn't the only concept you failed to grasp and your aggressive manner is extreme. You are not simply disagreeing.

Maybe it as simple as you not understanding that somebody who suffers from depression may have a depressive episode without any trigger what so ever. These depressive episodes can have a detrimental effect on personal relationships. How other people react to this is then out of your control, some people may very well get angry and choose to bully somebody as a result. They may even find allies from others who also feel slighted by the behaviour. Still not acceptable but understandable and something I was told by my doctor to watch out for. Specifically if I start feeling bullied by somebody to try and do a neutral assessment preferable not with a friend who will just agree . Are you saying you know better than mental health professionals?

Aligning yourself as an (assumed) associate of all mental health professionals is a big ask tbh so no I dont accept your protestations. And all the while using the line quoted above to back up your argument that you were told that you may have been bullied due to your own health whislt suggesting that this is some kind of medical fact and then claim you didnt state this! (See your Quotes I highlighted) - You even restate this frankly
Bizarre theory again in this post!

And for the record I disagree with what you said and I will repeat it again for your benefit Bullying Is Never Ever Understandable (or accceptable) Behaviour.

You also appear to take any and all disagreement of any of your pronouncements as "aggressive". Your Preception is something again something I have no control of but I would suggest that to use such an transparent mechanism to attempt to claim righteous argument is simply a cop out.

To get back to the point of the thread the OP clearly stated they were bullied and then developed depression - I would suggest you reread the post and attempt to at least understand the OPs circumstance and detail rather than continuing to opine your thoughts and beliefs against their stated experience all the while using purported non referenced medical theory.

If you don't like or believe the OP then leave it at that. Bullying takes enough of a toll without such negative and in my opinion contradictory diatribe.

ilovebiology

Elephant Man from china wrote: »

Seems like all you wanted was acceptance and for people to make a fuss over you..

It's possible you came across like an attention seeker

Banned

I wanted respect, and to be treated like anyone else in the workplace, and not treated horrifically just because I was ill, and stood up for myself against a very nasty employer, and issued them with legal proceedings - particularly when they were well aware of how wrong they had been.

Why would I want people to make a fuss over me, when all I was doing was standing up for myself, and not accepting anyone to treat me in such a terrible way?

And as for an attention seeker, that's absolutely incorrect, and insulting to me. If you were in my shoes with what I went through, you would have clearly seen I was anything but an attention seeker, but was seeking justice, and fairness for how terribly I was been treated.

Have you every heard of anyone who was harassed at work wanting to be an attention seeker???? When someone is in such an incredibly stressful situation like that, all they want is for it to be resolved, and to be treated with respect.

If I wanted people to make a fuss of me, and was trying to come across as an attention seeker as you said, I wouldn't have won my cases in the smaller courts, and my employer would not have settled my case out of the High Court. It was a matter of law, and how my employer did not, and didn't care about following the law.

I find your post insulting, and condescending, and you have obviously never gone through the hell that someone goes through when in a situation like this, that the person never wanted, and never asked for.

ilovebiology

Ray Palmer wrote: »

WOW!
How you can not grasp the difference at this point is amazing. If you can't understand how a statement about what I was told about how my judgment MAY be effected is not the same as saying it WAS the reason I was bullied shows a complete lack of understanding the English language. It isn't the only concept you failed to grasp and your aggressive manner is extreme. You are not simply disagreeing.

Maybe it as simple as you not understanding that somebody who suffers from depression may have a depressive episode without any trigger what so ever. These depressive episodes can have a detrimental effect on personal relationships. How other people react to this is then out of your control, some people may very well get angry and choose to bully somebody as a result. They may even find allies from others who also feel slighted by the behaviour. Still not acceptable but understandable and something I was told by my doctor to watch out for. Specifically if I start feeling bullied by somebody to try and do a neutral assessment preferable not with a friend who will just agree . Are you saying you know better than mental health professionals?

Thanks for your comments, however you have misread the start of my thread. I suffer with an additional illness, and it was because of that illness I was harassed and bullied at work in an attempt by my employer to try and force me out of my job. I was also harassed in a very severe way because I stood up to those who were treating me terribly, and also because I issued them with legal proceedings for the courts, and the High Court.

It was because of how terribly I was treated at work, the extreme stress that I was forced to endure (And that is no exaggeration at all) that I developed depression as a consequence of the horrific actions of my employer.

Also, I suffered terribly at work, and some days I look back on what I went through, and don't know how I got through it, but it was only by pure determination, and principles that I succeeded. I did not at any time upset anyone at work due to depression, all I was concentrating on was getting through work, following the law, and having my day in court. If I did treat anyone badly at work, I would not have won my cases.

ilovebiology

gozunda wrote: »

You appear to be getter rather off the point here

That's was your quote which you appeared to agree with and then denied having made. End of story.

Please remember disagreeing with an opinion or finding such an obvious flaw in your argument does not mean that this in any way aggressive. Perhaps that's your perception. But its your oerception and it is obviously unsupportable as I have stated my views clearly and with examples - something you appeared not to do.

Anyway the point of this post is neither about you or I but about the OPs very real description of the suffering he endured at the hands of bully's.

Yes we must make our own judgements on what the OP related but to deride his very obviously painful and insidious experience amounts to a complete lack of insight into what bullying really is and what it can do to the individual.

I do hope that the OP has had some improvements in his life following from his success in tackling his bullies - but what is certain is that this country legal system complwtly fails the victims of bullying in that it does not protect the victims rights against such harm and fails to criminalise such behaviour.

The OP importantly also asked about suicide linked to workplace bullying - this is a something that I believe must be accounted for and workplaces where workers should feel safe must be made accountable for where such bullying proven to have arisen as a result of substandard workplace and management practices.

By the way, I'm a girl, not a guy!

Big Davey

becost wrote: »

Hi ilovebiology,

I can identify with many of the points raised in your post although I took a different approach with my particular situation that didn't include legal action but I made sure my immediate supervisors won't have forgotten me in a hurry and will think twice about treating someone else the same way.
If I could give you one bit of advice, try not to think about how individual colleagues treated you. Try to think positive and move on from this situation. People that are in any way different are always going to be harassed at work. There's plenty of support and assistance in this country for people interested in setting up their own business if you have ever considered going in that direction.

Wishing you the best for the future!

There is help in this country to set up a business if you are in a corpo house and on the dole otherwise there is NOTHING. If you have tried to do something with your life in the past got a a couple of properties or have some savings there is no help at all when these are the people who should be encouraged not the shams that are getting "free courses" " back to work schemes" when we all know they will just pocket a few quid over the 2 years and then sign back on the dole.

On the subject of bullying I was bullied in the workplace by a guy who had a conviction for murder it was not a pleasant experience and the employer thought that it was funny ! I had to leave in the end but you live and learn.

ilovebiology

Big Davey wrote: »

There is help in this country to set up a business if you are in a corpo house and on the dole otherwise there is NOTHING. If you have tried to do something with your life in the past got a a couple of properties or have some savings there is no help at all when these are the people who should be encouraged not the shams that are getting "free courses" " back to work schemes" when we all know they will just pocket a few quid over the 2 years and then sign back on the dole.

On the subject of bullying I was bullied in the workplace by a guy who had a conviction for murder it was not a pleasant experience and the employer thought that it was funny ! I had to leave in the end but you live and learn.

Thank you.

Your employer thought it was funny - I believe you when you say that, as employers do not take any complaints of bullying and harassment in the workplace seriously, until they are up for it in the High Court!

I have read through my thread, and with the replies I have received (Thanks to all of you for your views, and replies by the way) just look at how many people have been harassed at work, and nothing done about it by the employer. That's just a handful of people, but it just goes to show how prevalant it is in this country.

It's such a horrifying silent epidemic, its time something was done about this by the government, if they will take the complaint of this issue seriously that is!

Big Davey

ilovebiology wrote: »

Thank you.

Your employer thought it was funny - I believe you when you say that, as employers do not take any complaints of bullying and harassment in the workplace seriously, until they are up for it in the High Court!

I have read through my thread, and with the replies I have received (Thanks to all of you for your views, and replies by the way) just look at how many people have been harassed at work, and nothing done about it by the employer. That's just a handful of people, but it just goes to show how prevalant it is in this country.

It's such a horrifying silent epidemic, its time something was done about this by the government, if they will take the complaint of this issue seriously that is!

The government and the civil service don't care they only care about themselves. With the amount of depressed people being struck off illness benefit and no real help out there for people there are many many office workers and medical assessor s with blood on their hands in these departments. One day a really depressed person who is struck off or looses a medical card and has nowhere to turn may kill the person responsible for cutting them off "then they will listen" but while people are killing just themselves nothing will be solved we are not a civilised society anymore. Depressed people are easy targets just like the Dodo bird was and we all know what happened to them....................

ilovebiology

Big Davey wrote: »

The government and the civil service don't care they only care about themselves. With the amount of depressed people being struck off illness benefit and no real help out there for people there are many many office workers and medical assessor s with blood on their hands in these departments. One day a really depressed person who is struck off or looses a medical card and has nowhere to turn may kill the person responsible for cutting them off "then they will listen" but while people are killing just themselves nothing will be solved we are not a civilised society anymore. Depressed people are easy targets just like the Dodo bird was and we all know what happened to them....................

There is no real help out there for people with depression, as I have discovered, and have to fork out for expensive treatment myself. The HSE is a joke.

Ray Palmer

ilovebiology wrote: »

Thanks for your comments, however you have misread the start of my thread. I suffer with an additional illness, and it was because of that illness I was harassed and bullied at work in an attempt by my employer to try and force me out of my job. I was also harassed in a very severe way because I stood up to those who were treating me terribly, and also because I issued them with legal proceedings for the courts, and the High Court.

It was because of how terribly I was treated at work, the extreme stress that I was forced to endure (And that is no exaggeration at all) that I developed depression as a consequence of the horrific actions of my employer.

Also, I suffered terribly at work, and some days I look back on what I went through, and don't know how I got through it, but it was only by pure determination, and principles that I succeeded. I did not at any time upset anyone at work due to depression, all I was concentrating on was getting through work, following the law, and having my day in court. If I did treat anyone badly at work, I would not have won my cases.

Well I am glad you see I wasn't suggesting ill of you. You are probably right that I thought you initially suggested you suffered from depression and another illness prior to working there.

The advice was more to do with being aware of mental illness and it's effects on others that may come back. It is possible a bully may actually have a mental illness too and may need help. While I never bullied anybody I was at least overly aggressive on occasions due to my illness. The wrong medication at one point made me paranoid and effected my work drastic. I even left a job because I couldn't see a way to not be considered aggressive afterwards.

Being bullied made matters worse in one place and I hit the lowest point in my life. The guy in question is still there and has caused many people to leave and he also got people fired. Some companies just don't deal with bullies. I took a settlement from them which they offered very quickly and have done before and since due to this one guy. One of his victims was severally effected and change career as a result.

It is possible to win a case even if you did treat people badly depending on how it was dealt with.

homerjay2005

ilovebiology wrote: »

I wanted respect, and to be treated like anyone else in the workplace, and not treated horrifically just because I was ill, and stood up for myself against a very nasty employer, and issued them with legal proceedings - particularly when they were well aware of how wrong they had been.

what was this illness,if you dont mind me asking?

ilovebiology

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well I am glad you see I wasn't suggesting ill of you. You are probably right that I thought you initially suggested you suffered from depression and another illness prior to working there.

The advice was more to do with being aware of mental illness and it's effects on others that may come back. It is possible a bully may actually have a mental illness too and may need help. While I never bullied anybody I was at least overly aggressive on occasions due to my illness. The wrong medication at one point made me paranoid and effected my work drastic. I even left a job because I couldn't see a way to not be considered aggressive afterwards.

Being bullied made matters worse in one place and I hit the lowest point in my life. The guy in question is still there and has caused many people to leave and he also got people fired. Some companies just don't deal with bullies. I took a settlement from them which they offered very quickly and have done before and since due to this one guy. One of his victims was severally effected and change career as a result.

It is possible to win a case even if you did treat people badly depending on how it was dealt with.

I am sorry to hear you were bullied at work, and how it was not dealt with. While I was working, I was never aggressive with anyone, I'm not that type of person, and one of the most important things for anyone involved in bullying at work is to be very aware and careful of what you say. There were many times I was extremely angry with what was happening and how I was treated, but I knew all they wanted me to do was to lash out, get very angry, and say something I would regret. I was more than capable of controlling and thinking about what I said. Aggressive is something I have never been, and never will be. It had that affect on you, but not on me. I know for a fact that if I was aggressive it would have affected the outcome of the lawsuits I hit them with, and that comes from my legal team, not from me.

gozunda

ilovebiology wrote: »

By the way, I'm a girl, not a guy!

I really do apologise for that - I defaulted the gender - my bad.

I would also like to say that I really admire your strenght of character and taking a stance against the Harrasment and assault you suffered as a result of your employer.

The law in this county urgently needs to be changed to deal with such insidious behaviour at the hands of those who are supposed to provide a safe place of work. The fact that the harm caused through bullying and this type of assault is not even a reportable offence is simply unbelievable.

I believe It is absolutly imperative that the state takes psychological assault seriously and deals with perpetrators of such behaviour under criminal law. It has been done else where - it can be done here.

I wonder how many more individuals have to go through what you did to achieve even basic justice?

Thanks for sharing your experience and all the best for the future

gozunda

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what was this illness,if you dont mind me asking?

Imo this is irrelevant - the OP has not given further detail - to do so would quite likley be an identifier- so not something anyone should ask to be honest.

ilovebiology

gozunda wrote: »

I really do apologise for that - I defaulted the gender - my bad.

I would also like to say that I really admire your strenght of character and taking a stance against the Harrasment and assault you suffered as a result of your employer.

The law in this county urgently needs to be changed to deal with such insidious behaviour at the hands of those who are supposed to provide a safe place of work. The fact that the harm caused through bullying and this type of assault is not even a reportable offence is simply unbelievable.

I believe It is absolutly imperative that the state takes psychological assault seriously and deals with perpetrators of such behaviour under criminal law. It has been done else where - it can be done here.

I wonder how many more individuals have to go through what you did to achieve even basic justice?

Thanks for sharing your experience and all the best for the future

Thank you for your sincere words. No need to apologise at all, it was only a small thing!

I agree entirely with what you are saying. A person can be arrested if they break someone else's arm - that's physical assault. The person arrested can be brought to court, and undergo a possible prosecution. A broken arm can be very painful to have, however, after a few weeks the person's arm heals, the cast is taken off, and they can get on with their life.

A person who is exposed to harassment, it usually goes on for a considerable amount of time, and when the person is forced to leave their job, leaves due to the unbearable environment they are expected to work in, or like me, issues them with legal proceedings, the suffering of the harassment does not stop, particularly if it was so severe that the person develops depression. The person will not be healed in a few weeks time, but can take months, or even a year, and I can't speak for the years ahead of me as of yet, but I do think I will be scarred for life with what happened to me, as it had such a damaging effect on me and my life.

There is a big difference in both of these examples, and believe me, I would rather have been physically assaulted, and have ended up with a broken arm, than have the suffering and hardship that comes with depression, and takes a very long time to heal.

To me, it is a very serious assault on a person's mind, and not only their mind, but their life - as depression has such an adverse affect on a person's life also, again alot different than having a broken arm.

With this in mind, I absolutely agree that bullying and harassment should be made criminal offence, and the perpetrators severely prosecuted in a criminal court. IF that might ever come into this country, it will be one good thing the government will have done, if it ever would come into law, that is.

monna

I was looking over internet for any information about where to find some legal team which previously won one of the 'bullying in workplace' cases and I've found this forum. The topic is so familiar to me and reading this brings tears to my eyes. I'm employed in a company for the past 8 years and being the only parent for my two kids for the first few years working there made me stay there. This cost me so much stress which lead to depression caused of bullying and harassment of managers working in there. I wonder would anyone could be able to give me some contacts to experienced legal team who can disccuss and maybe help me with my situation. I would be very grateful.

Regards,
Monna