Fine on Irish Rail for forgetting my student card

aoiferahmana

Hi,

I wonder if someone would be able to give me any advice?

I bought a student ticket online to travel from Heuston to Kilkenny. However, on boarding the train, realised that I had left my entire wallet in my apartment in Dublin. No problems on the way down, but on the return journey back to Dublin, I was fined €120.

I explained the situation to the inspector, who said that I have to appeal the fine and might get off if I can produce my student card. (Previously Irish Rail have required that you needed a TravelCard to avail of discounted student rates but recently they changed it to allow any student card - I have travelled a few times with them since then and have shown my student card to the inspector who has accepted it).

Do I have a leg to stand on - while I didn't actually have my student card on my person at the time, I am in possession of a valid student card. Will my appeal to Irish Rail be successful? And also, do I have to first pay the fine and then appeal it? Or can I appeal it straight off and hopefully not have to part with any money?

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments!

goingnowhere

You must have the student card with you while traveling

The T&C's make it very clear a student ticket is not valid without the specified ID. Nor will any retrospective refund be given if you later produce the ID.

So choices
1. Produce the ID in person at the office in Connolly station and beg for mercy (sometimes works)
2. Pay up the 120 euro (100 + difference from adult fare)
3. Challenge in court on the grounds you had no "intent to defraud"

Choice is yours, if you go to court seek professional legal advice...

Infini

You can always bring your documents down to the place where the fine was issued and ask if theres someone there you can explain the situation to. From the sounds of this case if you have a valid student card with you the lads there might cancel it for you since those cards cant be used by anyone else due to photo id and name.

Jamie2k9

You have very little ground to appeal, you used a ticket when you hadn't the correct ID to go with it. Yes everybody forgets things and you were un lucky to get caught but you will not win an appeal. Terms of student tickets are quiet clear. Not having a go just saying it from the companies point of view, all students who hadn't ID cards would use the exact same excuse so where do RPU staff draw the line.

AlekSmart

aoiferahmana wrote: »

Hi,

I wonder if someone would be able to give me any advice?

I bought a student ticket online to travel from Heuston to Kilkenny. However, on boarding the train, realised that I had left my entire wallet in my apartment in Dublin. No problems on the way down, but on the return journey back to Dublin, I was fined €120.

I explained the situation to the inspector, who said that I have to appeal the fine and might get off if I can produce my student card. (Previously Irish Rail have required that you needed a TravelCard to avail of discounted student rates but recently they changed it to allow any student card - I have travelled a few times with them since then and have shown my student card to the inspector who has accepted it).

Do I have a leg to stand on - while I didn't actually have my student card on my person at the time, I am in possession of a valid student card. Will my appeal to Irish Rail be successful? And also, do I have to first pay the fine and then appeal it? Or can I appeal it straight off and hopefully not have to part with any money?

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments!

To answer your direct question first,No,you don't have a leg to stand on.

However,you can rock up to IR with all of the relevant documentation and appeal the issue on the grounds you've so elequently outlined.

The associated points of note to me are,

*Your main concern is parting with money,rather than any aspect of not being in compliance with the T's & C'c of the concession.

* Irish Rail's checking procedure once again is shown to function.

* Could I ask what you are Studying ?

I'm certain there will be a full quota of responses along shortly.....:rolleyes:

corktina

you don't have grounds to appeal, all you can do, as said, is rock up to their office with your card and throw yourself on their mercy, tell them it was a lapse of memory and you won't do it again.

aoiferahmana

I'm studying an MA in Applied Psychology, but I hardly think that it matters?

I'm a student, I study full time and have little time to work and earn a living - €120 might not seem like a lot to you but it's more than a week's wages to me.

I get the impression that people think I was dodging paying a full fare or something. That is not true. I had to go home at last minute, as there was a family emergency. As a result, I was a little panicked, upset and not thinking straight. I had my purse out booking the ticket online and forgot to put it back in my bag, then ran out of the apartment without it. I am entitled to the student fare - just that this occasion I happened not to have my card with me. This is my first time using boards.ie I thought it was supposed to be a helpful forum - not a judgemental one

LeftBlank

aoiferahmana wrote: »

I'm studying an MA in Applied Psychology, but I hardly think that it matters?

I'm a student, I study full time and have little time to work and earn a living - €120 might not seem like a lot to you but it's more than a week's wages to me.

I get the impression that people think I was dodging paying a full fare or something. That is not true. I had to go home at last minute, as there was a family emergency. As a result, I was a little panicked, upset and not thinking straight. I had my purse out booking the ticket online and forgot to put it back in my bag, then ran out of the apartment without it. I am entitled to the student fare - just that this occasion I happened not to have my card with me. This is my first time using boards.ie I thought it was supposed to be a helpful forum - not a judgemental one

I don't think that anyone is judging here, just letting you know your options.

Solair

It's stuff like this that drives people away from using the train entirely!

If the OP sends in an appeal they really should allow it, if they'd any sense of customer care anyway!

People can and do occasionally forget things.

I mean if you're pulled up by the Gardai and forgot your driving license they have the good grace and sense to let you show it in a Garda station within 10 days.

If the OP has a valid student card and can show that it was valid while they had the ticket, I can't really see what the big deal is!

This "gotcha" attitude is just going to ensure the OP selects a private bus operator in future and will probably result in word of mouth negative publicity for Irish Rail.

Fair enough to go after fare evaders but being totally inflexible about things like a forgotten ID card is just nonsense.

If you're on a very tight budget (as many students are) those fines can be enormous. That could be someone's food budget for a couple of weeks or a large chunk of their rent!

foggy_lad

The RPU have to be inflexible but the staff in the office should allow a certain amount of leeway especially in cases where a student card is unlikely ro have been used numerous times and particularly in circumstances like the op has described. Otherwise irish rail will just keep losing passengers to bus and road and these passengers will never be back!

n97 mini

If IE had a tither of wit they'd accept your appeal, or they risk losing a paying customer for the next 40 odd years.

AlekSmart wrote: »

*Your main concern is parting with money,rather than any aspect of not being in compliance with the T's & C'c of the concession.

Is this trolling? Who cares about IE's T&C's more than they care about their own money!

intellectual dosser

Are the T&C's therefore a bit unfair if there is no official leeway shown if you produce the valid ID at a later date? Everything else aside the OP is a student, with or without the card on her person.

Like n97 mini said, IR need to stop scaring customers away. I used to be a regular customer but have used the train once in the past 4 years. The costs and quality finally stepped over the mark.

goldenhoarde

aoiferahmana wrote: »

Hi,

I wonder if someone would be able to give me any advice?

I bought a student ticket online to travel from Heuston to Kilkenny. However, on boarding the train, realised that I had left my entire wallet in my apartment in Dublin. No problems on the way down, but on the return journey back to Dublin, I was fined €120.

I explained the situation to the inspector, who said that I have to appeal the fine and might get off if I can produce my student card. (Previously Irish Rail have required that you needed a TravelCard to avail of discounted student rates but recently they changed it to allow any student card - I have travelled a few times with them since then and have shown my student card to the inspector who has accepted it).

Do I have a leg to stand on - while I didn't actually have my student card on my person at the time, I am in possession of a valid student card. Will my appeal to Irish Rail be successful? And also, do I have to first pay the fine and then appeal it? Or can I appeal it straight off and hopefully not have to part with any money?

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments!

Hi aoiferahmana

The important bits are that when you purchased the ticket you had the id with you @home but forgot it so there was no intention to defraud. The ticket was prepurchased so i'd go in to connolly and see if you can speak to someone who might agree and let you off. Thats the best approach i reckon but be prepared to have to pay the fine as by the rules you were in breach.

hope it goes well for you

PS boards can be very helpful but also very judgemental

bikeman1

Go and appeal it. You have nothing to lose. My friend has gotten off two penalty fines on different grounds but in what I would call more dubious circumstances, so therebis hope.

I think there should be a policy in place that if you don't have your id with you for what ever reason you can go and appeal it, like if you forget your driving licence as has been mentioned above.

AlekSmart

aoiferahmana wrote: »

I'm studying an MA in Applied Psychology, but I hardly think that it matters?

I'm a student, I study full time and have little time to work and earn a living - €120 might not seem like a lot to you but it's more than a week's wages to me.

I get the impression that people think I was dodging paying a full fare or something. That is not true. I had to go home at last minute, as there was a family emergency. As a result, I was a little panicked, upset and not thinking straight. I had my purse out booking the ticket online and forgot to put it back in my bag, then ran out of the apartment without it. I am entitled to the student fare - just that this occasion I happened not to have my card with me. This is my first time using boards.ie I thought it was supposed to be a helpful forum - not a judgemental one

Actually Aoiferahmana,I find quite a relevance in the subject/s you are studying,but admittedly worthy of far deeper consideration.

In the context of your chosen subject,I also find it fascinating that you would find the thread responses thus far,to be"Judgemental".

Could you expand a little on the reasons for reaching this conclusion ?

As to the mechanics of the situation,as Foggy_Lad (amazingly :eek:) points out,the RPU Have to be inflexible,however if you submit an appeal as clearly worded as you have here,I would imagine the Penalty will be waived.

As a first-time poster you might be somewhat soothed to search out the many and varied threads regarding Discounted Student Travel,which taken together will,I suggest,provide one with endless opportunities for application of Psychology....;)

A belated Welcome to you too

Polar101

I'd guess there is a decent chance that the appeal will be successful, definitely worth trying at least.

corktina

yes, but be careful to appeal on the basis that you aren't fraudulent, merely forgetful. You have no grounds to appeal on the basis that there was anything wrong with the actual fine being levied.

monument

n97 mini wrote: »

If IE had a tither of wit they'd accept your appeal, or they risk losing a paying customer for the next 40 odd years.


Is this trolling? Who cares about IE's T&C's more than they care about their own money!

You're not allowed to call people trolls -- there's a ban in place on this forum and generally it's seen as back seat modding.

Do not do it again!

- Moderator

xpletiv

Speaking from experience here; if you have your card and other documentation or something showing your student (though the card should do), go to the office and say you were fined for not having it, but you have it now. Do it asap, like literally 1 or 2 days after the fine was issued, and they will scrap it.

n97 mini

monument wrote: »

You're not allowed to call people trolls --

Fair enough, but I didn't, I only asked.

hfallada

I got fined on Dublin bus in november for not having a student card. But had my school card but the inspector took my name and address and my ticket and said expect a letter in the post and when I get it go to DB HQ and present my travel card and they would cancel the fine and get back my ticket.

A few weeks later I got a letter saying I had been fined €50 so I went to HQ with the letter and the women took my student card and photocopied it and gave my old ticket and the fine was cancelled.

OP send Irish rail a letter and a photocopy of your student ID as you have one but didnt have it on you. We are human we forget things

Victor

n97 mini wrote: »

Fair enough, but I didn't, I only asked.

You knew you were being disruptive by asking the question.

If you want to continue this side conversation, take it to #M.

Moderator

daheff

foggy_lad wrote: »

The RPU have to be inflexible but the staff in the office should allow a certain amount of leeway especially in cases where a student card is unlikely ro have been used numerous times and particularly in circumstances like the op has described. Otherwise irish rail will just keep losing passengers to bus and road and these passengers will never be back!

I agree. RPU have to be inflexible to stop people trying it on. But they should also be able to tell people that if they had a valid ticket (ie a student card) that they can appeal with a 100% chance of success.
I appreciate people get caught up with things and can forget stuff...but IE dont help themselves or customers at all. For example I have a bus & rail annual tickets. I have one smart card for the train and another for the bus. Neither are valid on their own..so I have to bring 2 tickets with me all the time.

OP- go to IE and explain what happened. Tell them you had to go home in a hurry because of family circumstances (the time between buying your ticket online and taking the first leg of your journey should verify this hurry). Apologies profusely and they might be nice and let you off.

aoiferahmana

Hi guys,
Thank you so much for all your helpful comments. I went to IE and explained to the officer there what had happened. I apologised, said that it was entirely my fault and I knew I was in the wrong, but if there was anything he could do, I would be very grateful. It seems he took pity on me, and waived the fine, much to my delight! Lesson learned the hard way, I shall always double check that I have my purse with me next time I'm taking the train!

BenShermin

Glad they let you off with this one, it shows IÉ still has a small shred of common sense when it comes to customer service.

corktina

BenShermin wrote: »

Glad they let you off with this one, it shows IÉ still has a small shred of common sense when it comes to customer service.

i don't doubt that this is the outcome in the majority of cases where the approach that Aoife used was the case. If you went there ranting like some who have previously come on here you might expect to get nowhere. Well done Aoife.

AlekSmart

corktina wrote: »

If you went there ranting like some who have previously come on here you might expect to get nowhere. Well done Aoife.

Commonsense,coupled with an acceptance of responsibility and refraining from attempting to "blame" the operator for having rules at all will get you a long way in these matters.

Always bearing in mind that the "Fine" was'nt for forgetting the ID,but for not being in possession of it,the actual offence was cut n dried.

This Girl obviously applied a little of her psychology and secured a result.

+1 on the Well Done Aoife !

cast_iron

AlekSmart wrote: »

Actually Aoiferahmana,I find quite a relevance in the subject/s you are studying,but admittedly worthy of far deeper consideration.

What absolute nonsense.
Whether she studies Medicine, Psychology, Science or whatever, it makes no odds. She could be studying Earth Sciences in the back end of Russia - the same rules apply as to carrying a student card.

Ultimately, when someone an prove that they were and actual student and clearly just had not their student card with them for whatever reason, then IR are able to use their discretion are waive the fine.

cbl593h

aoiferahmana wrote: »

Hi guys,
Thank you so much for all your helpful comments. I went to IE and explained to the officer there what had happened. I apologised, said that it was entirely my fault and I knew I was in the wrong, but if there was anything he could do, I would be very grateful. It seems he took pity on me, and waived the fine, much to my delight! Lesson learned the hard way, I shall always double check that I have my purse with me next time I'm taking the train!

Can I just say one thing given I work in the exact department of the exact industry involved here. You were lucky to get off and in actual fact you getting off is quite unfair on those who follow the rules and do things properly.

In my world you would not have gotten off because you'd travelled outside the conditions knowingly. You showed intent to defraud because you came down and weren't checked- therefore you knew you wouldn't have the ID on the way back and commenced the return journey.

I don't know IÉ's policy but you may have been able to pay the difference before travel, buy a new discount card or definitely you would have been able to buy a new ticket (cheaper than the fine).