Mayweather v Canelo Alvarez September 14th

walshb

Does Manny's "phenomenal" rise to the top include his KO loss to Juan? His dubious loss to Bradley?

What is phenomenal in beating up on a pathetic and inept Oscar? Knocking out face first Hatton with a "wild" swinging hook. What is phenomenal about a close close win over an aged JMM in 2011 or thereabouts.

walshb

BTW, anyone who seriously thinks/believes that Floyd brought about demands for OSDT to clean up the sport really does have their head firmly up their backside. A pro since 1996 he is. A little late to be all concerned.

efb

TheKingslayer wrote: »

I actually never said Pacquaio was taking drugs. Such accusations are against the forum rules.

I mentioned known drug cheats - armstrong and margarito.

I also mentioned that Pacquaio had a phenomenal rise to the top, and that even Ray Charles could see how successful Pacquaio was as a boxer.

I also lauded JMM for his success in the ring.

even not so subtle hinting gets you banned in cycling forum.

Big Ears

efb wrote: »

Lads is such drug talk allowed? There would be bannings on other fora (cycling etc) for this

No it's not, and there will be bans for anyone to make any more accusations of drug use about any fighter.

Edit: Unless that fighter has been confirmed to have tested positive for drug use.

richierichballs

walshb wrote: »

BTW, anyone who seriously thinks/believes that Floyd brought about demands for OSDT to clean up the sport really does have their head firmly up their backside. A pro since 1996 he is. A little late to be all concerned.

As time progresses so do new PED's, Victor Conte who was the man behind Balco has said on numerous occasions it is very easy for a fighter to get away with steroid abuse with the standard testing procedures in boxing.

richierichballs

walshb wrote: »

Another poster picking a single point

I gave the verdict to Manny. Bradley still didn't get beaten up. It was quite a competitive scrap once you muted Kellerman, Lampley and the rest of HBO.

What's your view on the likes of Bradley and JMM getting in with Manny and doing very well, with no wondering about PEDs, yet Floyd wouldn't get in unless he had his own drugs testing?

Because they want career high paydays and have nothing to lose.

Floyd is all about money, no other fight in the history of the sport would've generated as much. He wanted that fight and to put the reason for it not happening down to testing is ridiculous.

Bob Arum wanted no dealings with Floyd after there split up a few years ago, he has not got over what Floyd did with the Oscar fight.
Floyd even went as far as offering Manny $40m to do the fight under the Goldenboy promotions banner and he refused. Despite his highest ever payday being $13m.

He also claimed Floyd was the greatest fighter of all time when he was at Top Rank, some might say Arum feared his cashcow Pacquiao losing to Floyd. So Manny goes and gets robbed by a top rank stablemate Timothy Bradley? Who Arum aswell has said will be the next top rank p4p #1?

Nothing dodgy going on there at all.

walshb

richierichballs wrote: »

He wanted that fight and to put the reason for it not happening down to testing is ridiculous.

l.

Oh, so him wanting OSDT was all just talk and hype? Now, that is ridiculous!

richierichballs

walshb wrote: »

Oh, so him wanting OSDT was all just talk and hype? Now, that is ridiculous!

No. Wanting OSDT was an issue at the start, Pacquiao agreed and Floyd called his bluff. Floyd had even signed the contract for the fight at this stage.

Then Mannys camp started objecting to the drug testing issue.

walshb

richierichballs wrote: »

No. Wanting OSDT was an issue at the start, Pacquiao agreed and Floyd called his bluff. Floyd had even signed the contract for the fight at this stage.

Then Mannys camp started objecting to the drug testing issue.

And the 60/40 split?

BTW, both have blame. I just think Floyd saw something in 2009/2010 that made him not want a fight. Damn sham, because I think he's too good for Manny at any stage.


As to the drugs. I'd love to know what folks actually see to make them think that Manny is or was on drugs. Is it the Cotto fight?

richierichballs

walshb wrote: »

And the 60/40 split?

BTW, both have blame. I just think Floyd saw something in 2009/2010 that made him not want a fight. Damn sham, because I think he's too good for Manny at any stage.


As to the drugs. I'd love to know what folks actually see to make them think that Manny is or was on drugs. Is it the Cotto fight?

No the initial agreement was a 50/50 split, this came directly after Pacquiao had knocked out Ricky Hatton.

Floyd agreed to 50/50 and in turn Pacquiao agreed to the testing,
Floyd signed the contract and Pacquiao didn't.

Pacquiao instead went on to fight Cotto which did a decent 1.5m ppv buys and then the PPV split problems arouse.

The questions regarding Pacquiaos alleged steroid use stems from the De la Hoya fight and his jumping of so many weight classes. But personally I seen the most dramatic change in pacquiaos abilities after the second fight with Marquez. He went on to fight David Diaz (who is sh*t, I know) but he was frighteningly quick and just discovered this abnormal power.

walshb

richierichballs wrote: »

No the initial agreement was a 50/50 split, this came directly after Pacquiao had knocked out Ricky Hatton.

Floyd agreed to 50/50 and in turn Pacquiao agreed to the testing,
Floyd signed the contract and Pacquiao didn't.

Pacquiao instead went on to fight Cotto which did a decent 1.5m ppv buys and then the PPV split problems arouse.

The questions regarding Pacquiaos alleged steroid use stems from the De la Hoya fight and his jumping of so many weight classes. But personally I seen the most dramatic change in pacquiaos abilities after the second fight with Marquez. He went on to fight David Diaz (who is sh*t, I know) but he was frighteningly quick and just discovered this abnormal power.

Pac, frighteningly quick? That's like saying SRL/Hearns or Ali are frighteningly quick. Yes, they are. So, that down to drugs?

Floyd jumped from 130-150 lbs. He on drugs?

Abnormal power? So, what use was that against Oscar and Clottey and Margarito and Mosley? They all were still standing after many flush shots.

The logic just doesn't add up. I am well aware that drugs are rife in top class sports. I am not saying Pac is clean. I don't know this, but some folks seem a wee bit too clear cut on the issue

For whatever reason, Floyd didn't fancy a fight in 2009/2010 vs. Manny. JMM did in 2011, and look how well he did. Floyd would have done a better job.

Too much emaphasis was placed on Manny's wins against opposition that had little resistance,. I even overrated Manny. Yes, I saw improvements in Manny, but not "drugs" improvements. I saw patience, movement, tactics and less recklessness. That having nothing to do with peds IMO.

If he had decimated Mosley and KO'd Margarito and Clottey with one or two shots then I may have become real suspicious.

Big Ears

Guys please try to stay on topic or start a new thread.
Another 'Floyd-Manny' discussion or 'Lets debate who's on drugs' is not staying on topic.

efb

BE I's say this topic is done