Tech Universities for all

BlaasForRafa

Trotter wrote: »

Here's the big dividing question. Is a technical university equal in standing to UCC, DCU, UL, or NUIG?

If not, then there's nothing to see here because they are the other cities in the gateway strategy thats being rapidly flushed.

You got it in one there, this is just going to be a "poor mans university". If its not going to be a proper university then there's not much point to it, it'll still be second class.

fuzzy dunlop

Has Waterford got the University it wanted? no it hasn;t.
Has the education deficit in the South East been addressed? no it hasn't.
Where we are now relative to the other institutions is the same as where we were back in 1994 when Wrtc was to become WIT.There is no good news here just more spin.

7upfree

Nikolai Sweet Poodle wrote: »

This might not be the most popular opinion but why does Waterford even need a University? Ireland is a small country, there are already 7 (?) Universities here. I really do not see the need for another.

*Sigh*.

Two Universities 60 miles apart on the West Coast. 500,000 people in the catchment area, etc, etc.

Sully

Meathlass wrote: »

There's been no application yet to become a Tech Uni. They've just been given formal approval to apply to become one but only on the condition that the two institutes merge first and apply as one entity.

I agree wth you that the application process is underway but it will still be years before students are able to apply to TUSE for third level education.

Benimar wrote: »

Not at all. WIT and Carlow IT are merging in order to allow them to apply to become a Technological University. I've highlighted the 'T' word again as you seem to keep missing that part for some reason....

Also, there is no guarantee that merger will result in this 'upgrade' but should it not be awarded WIT and Carlow IT must stay merged as per the legislation.

As a previous poster pointed out WIT and Carlow currently do not meet the criteria for upgrade regarding PhDs, research etc.

Ah sorry. I was of the understanding sometime ago that WIT and Carlow had applied to become on and from reading various articles online today, the application was approved. I didn't read anything to suggest otherwise.

Mr Tibbs

Sully wrote: »

Lol why would you be banned? For the town jibe? Irelands oldest City, it just didnt grow.

Its hard to understand what your saying - is it that when Limerick got upgraded that there wasn't a flood of other upgrades?

So your suggesting it may not happen here that a flood of applications will be granted?

So you found it hard to understand what I was saying funny that Max Powers picked up exactly what I was refering to. Ok we are the oldest city in Ireland but have always been treated like a town when it comes to big decisions from Leinster House by successive Governments over the years. I'll put that down to our wonderful TD's we have had over the years. So you say we are not growing well Sully when I was a lad Waterford used to have a population of 32,000 people and Galway had 28,000 people, now I know University status has nothing to do with that its just that more people love Galway I suppose. Oh I nearly forgot we have a population of nearly 50,000 now so your right we are not growing at all. I bet if it came down to downgrading one of the two cities in the south east Big Phil would win that battle and we would retain our status because Big Phil respects our status as the oldest city in Ireland and sure doesn't he really love us. Sure didn't he say so on the news a while back about the typical welcome a Kilkenny man gets in Waterford. Read through the sarasm Sully you know exactly what I mean. We may be the oldest but we are always treated like the youngest getting the hand me downs of what the rest always refused.

Max Powers wrote: »

what you're saying is that our achievement is downgraded by the fact that others are brought into the same even though we fought the fight, i agree 100%. Same happened with the RTC - IT campaign and yes as you point out, same is happening here probably.
Re: UL, Chuck Feeney primarily, JP and other rich Limerick people pumped millions into UL before it was UL making it look and feel like a Uni. No other Uni in Ireland has gotten such private investment, maybe UCD.

I wonder would Whity Bulger give us a few bob I heard he has relations in Rathgormack.

Sully

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

So you found it hard to understand what I was saying funny that Max Powers picked up exactly what I was refering to. Ok we are the oldest city in Ireland but have always been treated like a town when it comes to big decisions from Leinster House by successive Governments over the years. I'll put that down to our wonderful TD's we have had over the years. So you say we are not growing well Sully when I was a lad Waterford used to have a population of 32,000 people and Galway had 28,000 people, now I know University status has nothing to do with that its just that more people love Galway I suppose. Oh I nearly forgot we have a population of nearly 50,000 now so your right we are not growing at all. I bet if it came down to downgrading one of the two cities in the south east Big Phil would win that battle and we would retain our status because Big Phil respects our status as the oldest city in Ireland and sure doesn't he really love us. Sure didn't he say so on the news a while back about the typical welcome a Kilkenny man gets in Waterford. Read through the sarasm Sully you know exactly what I mean. We may be the oldest but we are always treated like the youngest getting the hand me downs of what the rest always refused.

No, I didn't. I genuinely thought what I posted. Just because one user is able to understand your post, doesn't mean everybody else will. You were being sarcastic, I didn't pick it up.

Media999

What does this actually mean for the students there now?

Politics aside.

Sully

Media999 wrote: »

What does this actually mean for the students there now?

Politics aside.

When we (as students) asked a lecturer years ago we were told very little and it would take a long time for any benefits to be felt.

I remember when they described themselves as "University like" (or similar) - a flurry of students thought they were given the status. We were only in first year, so wouldn't have had much knowledge but in my later years I worked on the campaign a bit with politics, spoke with former president about it, covered it in student papers and learned a bit more about what was what and so on. Same consensus in later years.

Figerty

Ye have been sold a pup today.

The right to apply for permission has been given but the criteria have been set so high that it can't be ever met.

UL probably wouldn't get Uni status by the criteria in the report. DIT may make it eventually, but the WIT and CIT lead Tech Uni's will never happen as they will never meet international bench marks.

The local politicans will come out and sign and dance about the great news, but it's all smoke and mirrors. WIT and CIT will spend millons on consultants and press releases and will never make it past the benchmarks.

letsbet

Figerty wrote: »

UL probably wouldn't get Uni status by the criteria in the report. DIT may make it eventually, but the WIT and CIT lead Tech Uni's will never happen as they will never meet international bench marks.

I was talking to a lecturer in a dublin-based university today about the criteria and he said something along the lines of "well we definitely wouldn't qualify based on those criteria, indeed I don't think a lot of universities would". Tells you all you need to know, especially as these universities have been given many more resources and time to get there. The more you look at this whole thing the more you realise that it's a complete farce. I'm not usually one who goes to the anti-Waterford conspiracy theories but it's getting more and more difficult to argue against them.

Figerty

letsbet wrote: »

I was talking to a lecturer in a dublin-based university today about the criteria and he said something along the lines of "well we definitely wouldn't qualify based on those criteria, indeed I don't think a lot of universities would". Tells you all you need to know, especially as these universities have been given many more resources and time to get there. The more you look at this whole thing the more you realise that it's a complete farce. I'm not usually one who goes to the anti-Waterford conspiracy theories but it's getting more and more difficult to argue against them.

I don't think it's anti Waterford. It's more the current universities protecting their patch against dilution of their own interests. I doesn't' matter who it. Personally I agree that 7 Universities is enough.

The mentality in Waterford comes across as paranoid sometimes.

Captain Havoc

Did you hit the report button? You must report a post, otherwise none of us can act on it. Having a snipe in thread will only lead to infractions and/ or bans.

Cabaal

Teebor15 banned for ignoring warnings

Media999

Every student in WIT would agree its not worthy of being on the same level as DCU or Trinity.

fuzzy dunlop

Media999 wrote: »

Every student in WIT would agree its not worthy of being on the same level as DCU or Trinity.

Trinity Maybe but DCU or Maynooth definetely hasn't the same status. And WIT are comparable in size and type of courses as far as Engineering and Technology goes. It is the humanities aspect that is been neglected here imo. Anyway how would they know unless they have been there to compare? These intitutions are far from without their difficulties.

But on the subject of this. If this is only supposedlly clearing the way for WIT to apply for for University Status then we've been granted nothing. There was nothing to stop us doing that anyway.

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Trinity Maybe but DCU or Maynooth definetely hasn't the same status. And WIT are comparable in size and type of courses as far as Engineering and Technology goes. It is the humanities aspect that is been neglected here imo. Anyway how would they know unless they have been there to compare? These intitutions are far from without their difficulties.

But on the subject of this. If this is only supposedlly clearing the way for WIT to apply for for University Status then we've been granted nothing. There was nothing to stop us doing that anyway.

The feeling re: WIT not deserving it is common in WIT for many years but I would wonder were all ITs of the same opinion before being upgraded?

Dail records suggest we already applied - Paudie Coffey asked the Minister a few months ago and that's what the reply was. This is what I was told on the ground in WIT before this question was posed.

The Irish Examiner (or whatever paper reported this) suggested the application was accepted. A lot of our local and national reps have came out signing the praises and delighted (opposition mostly, with a smaller comment from the regional FG reps). I have absolutely no idea where this latest 'Its only an application' came from but there appears to be some confusion.

Media999

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Trinity Maybe but DCU or Maynooth definetely hasn't the same status. And WIT are comparable in size and type of courses as far as Engineering and Technology goes. It is the humanities aspect that is been neglected here imo. Anyway how would they know unless they have been there to compare? These intitutions are far from without their difficulties.

But on the subject of this. If this is only supposedlly clearing the way for WIT to apply for for University Status then we've been granted nothing. There was nothing to stop us doing that anyway.

Ive been in DCU and WIT and i can whole heartedly say that WIT is no where near the level of DCU.

Im not trying to stir up an argument or anything but i 100% believe that. Not sure about maynooth as ive never studied there. Id love to see WIT on that level but id imagine youre talking 10-15 years of hard effort and improving to get there.

fuzzy dunlop

Media999 wrote: »

Ive been in DCU and WIT and i can whole heartedly say that WIT is no where near the level of DCU.

Im not trying to stir up an argument or anything but i 100% believe that. Not sure about maynooth as ive never studied there. Id love to see WIT on that level but id imagine youre talking 10-15 years of hard effort and improving to get there.

Well this argument has been done to death over the years. So I fail to see the point of re-hasing it. I've been do WIT and DIT and I am familiar with Maynooth and Technical Universities in places Like Eindhoven. There is also former alumni of the DCU here that have argued contrary to what you are saying There is no way WIT is 15 years behind. Even the Cork Road campus in Isolation is not 15 years behind. It if it was given the same access to state funding it would probably be ahead of DCU. But the problem with your arguement is that WIT seems to have to do everything by itself to prove itself.It has to be a University before it can be called a University. Whereas this was never the situation with DCU or Maynooth or indeed UL, UCD or any other Institution even Trinity. They were given the state support to get them to where they are now. with nowhere near the same level of political resistance. So that arguement is moot.

letsbet

Anyone who hopes that this will happen within ten years should expect to be disappointed. It might win a few votes for FG and Labour in the next election as it'll take longer than that for most people to realise that this week's announcement is almost completely pointless and the criteria have been set way to high, especially in the absence of proper funding to get there. Let's face it, the government's main priority is to make cutbacks in the education sector and reduce the number of colleges.

Nobody in WIT is getting anywhere near excited about this (apart from maybe the director). It is more accurate to say that people are more concerned about what is going to happen. A lot of people on the outside might be tricked by headlines and some people's comments into thinking "oh great WIT has been upgraded to a university" so the government will have succeeded in fobbing us off for another few years.

Max Powers

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Well this argument has been done to death over the years. So I fail to see the point of re-hasing it. I've been do WIT and DIT and I am familiar with Maynooth and Technical Universities in places Like Eindhoven. There is also former alumni of the DCU here that have argued contrary to what you are saying There is no way WIT is 15 years behind. Even the Cork Road campus in Isolation is not 15 years behind. It if it was given the same access to state funding it would probably be ahead of DCU. But the problem with your arguement is that WIT seems to have to do everything by itself to prove itself.It has to be a University before it can be called a University. Whereas this was never the situation with DCU or Maynooth or indeed UL, UCD or any other Institution even Trinity. They were given the state support to get them to where they are now. with nowhere near the same level of political resistance. So that arguement is moot.

i have studied in DCU, WIT and IT Tallght, not much in difference between DCU and WIT, WIT is miles better than ITT

Yes Boss

Max Powers wrote: »

i have studied in DCU, WIT and IT Tallght, not much in difference between DCU and WIT, WIT is miles better than ITT

DCU receives double the level of funding...It's all about the money, money, money which everyone agrees won't be happening anytime soon...This is just a slight of hand!

fuzzy dunlop

Max Powers wrote: »

i have studied in DCU, WIT and IT Tallght, not much in difference between DCU and WIT, WIT is miles better than ITT

My point exactly! I am always suspicious when someone comes on here out of the blue and says something "I studied in both etc etc etc..". 15 years behind DCU? No chance. WIT and WRH have one thing in common. They have traditionally been expected to operate at the highest level with the most meagre of funding this is the issue. What has happened here is the Goalposts have been shifted once again so the can gets kicked down the road till past the next election. It's The Port Repor 2.0.

iamaiamai

With the revelations about mismanagement of funds in W.I.T. and the current investigations into how it handles (misplaces) money - I expect Ruairi Quinn will be releasing the findings soon. Same old Good News/Bad News game.

I think Carlow IT is going to get a lot of the courses run in WIT right now - WIT can't handle all the students it has. As already stated here, WIT is poorly funded, and overrun by students it just can't handle. Student services must be running on bare bones if you are to judge by the way they operate. Only 2 hours a day you can speak to someone about your grant (a person who mans just one desk) - that's for HOW MANY STUDENTS? Hmmm! Classes out in industrial estates. Two computers for the entire school of applied arts? Ridiculous. I'm guessing all those students out in the industrial estate are there temporary until they are moved to Carlow, which coincidentally seems to be investing a lot more into construction and development right now.

This is the part that would be of interest (or bewilderment) to students and staff right now, I imagine.

Upgraded status means nothing if the cutbacks and scaling back of student services continues.

Media999

You forgot to mention an IT building with basically zero Wifi except for a couple of classes. Wifi barely anywhere actually and dont get started on the crappy computer systems all over the college.

iamaiamai

Media999 wrote: »

You forgot to mention an IT building with basically zero Wifi except for a couple of classes. Wifi barely anywhere actually and dont get started on the crappy computer systems all over the college.

Agreed. The computers, and those behind the mysterious moniker "computer services" are stuck in some time warp. The college teaches courses which require computer access - like programming, etc. And yet they can't guarantee that over half the computers in a class in the Walton building will actually work. Embarrassing.

The library scale backs say it all to me. They have no interest in providing for their students who may need access to books, computers, printers, etc. They can't even make sure there are enough plugs working for students lucky enough to own their own laptop. Weekend access - midterm access - and now summer access - obviously not a priority.

letsbet

There's a big difference between having no interest in providing something and having no money to provide it.

iamaiamai

letsbet wrote: »

There's a big difference between having no interest in providing something and having no money to provide it.

If you've been a student in a position where you need to avail of these services, for example in order to complete data collection for your final year thesis, you would be a long time looking for concern or interest in any correspondence or face to face dealings you had with staff. In this sense, the Student's Union are really the only lifeline students have to advocating for better services, because the students union are not so far removed from how cutbacks affect students on a day to day basis. Students requesting the services they've been promised are just an inconvenience to staff, I guess. I don't blame the staff as individuals working within constraints, but there is definitely a wider culture in WIT where lack of funding, a laissez faire attitude and lack of pride in the institution means that promoting excellence is simply not a priority, or even a possibility.

Get them in, get them out.

Media999

letsbet wrote: »

There's a big difference between having no interest in providing something and having no money to provide it.

Hold a bloody fundraiser and buy a few routers. Jesus even ask students have they any spare routers knocking about. Ive 2 in a draw here going to waste.

Every single class room should have a router / repeater in it bar none. They can be had for 20 bucks each and sort a major problem out.

We dont need 27 inch macs we just need a wifi connection.

MOC88

iamaiamai wrote: »

Agreed. The computers, and those behind the mysterious moniker "computer services" are stuck in some time warp. The college teaches courses which require computer access - like programming, etc. And yet they can't guarantee that over half the computers in a class in the Walton building will actually work. Embarrassing.

The library scale backs say it all to me. They have no interest in providing for their students who may need access to books, computers, printers, etc. They can't even make sure there are enough plugs working for students lucky enough to own their own laptop. Weekend access - midterm access - and now summer access - obviously not a priority.

I'm sorry but have you been in the Walton building... I'm doing a Applied Computing and have my own laptop... I have, however, always found a plug and available computer... if you're saying there are not enough computers or plugs available then you're not looking. What college provides 24/7 plugs and access to study facilities? And I mean actual facilities not a fishbowl of a room with no books like they do in UCC after hours

MOC88

Media999 wrote: »

Hold a bloody fundraiser and buy a few routers. Jesus even ask students have they any spare routers knocking about. Ive 2 in a draw here going to waste.

Every single class room should have a router / repeater in it bar none. They can be had for 20 bucks each and sort a major problem out.

We dont need 27 inch macs we just need a wifi connection.

It's disappointing they don't have it alright it doesn't seem like a massive problem to fix