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Tenant keeping some of rent allowance ?

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  • 30-05-2013 1:29pm
    #1
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭


    My friend is living abroad and rented her house to a couple on social welfare they receive rent allowance. They are constantly leaving the rent short and very late there are arrears of about one months rent and then the next month is very late etc what is her best option ? My sister said if she reports them to social welfare they will immediately cut their money and then it gets really messy. How should she deal with it the money could be going on gambling, drink, drugs or just over spending who knows but the fact is the social welfare give them the money to pass on to her and they are not doing it.
    Advice please and I will pass it on.


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    #2
    aaakev
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    the social welfare wont be paying all the rent only a percentage of it, the tennants must come up with the rest themselves so id guess they are not managing their own money properly but are passing on the rent allowance


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    #3
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    aaakev wrote: »
    the social welfare wont be paying all the rent only a percentage of it, the tennants must come up with the rest themselves so id guess they are not managing their own money properly but are passing on the rent allowance
    I understand that every year there is a form (from social welfare) for the landlord to fill out to say if the rent is up to date so I presume social welfare are in some way interested in if they are up to date on the rent or not. If my friend fills out the form and says there are substantial arrears what happens then ? What is the best option as my friend is slaving away in another country and could do without the stress she is a forced landlord she never planned this and is just about making ends meat herself.


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    #4
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    They could issue a notice of arrears, which give the tenant 14 days to sort the rent out, after which a 28 day notice of eviction can be issued.

    Of course, if the tenant is a total prick then they might just dig their heals in which would result in a lengthy and messy process with the PRTB while the landlord most likely receives no rent whatsoever, but it also might just spark them into life and make them realise that there are consequences to their non-payment.


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    #5
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    Does a solicitor have to send the "notice of arrears" or can my friend send one by registered post etc ? Thanks guys


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    #6
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Big Davey wrote: »
    Does a solicitor have to send the "notice of arrears" or can my friend send one by registered post etc ? Thanks guys

    Registered post should be fine; it doesnt have to come from a solicitor.

    The notice of eviction, which it doesnt have to come from a solicitor, would be well worth seeking legal advice on, as it can be tricky. If its not worded right it could be considered to be invalid. No sense leaving anything to change.


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    #7
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Could they be holding back the percentage of the rent to pay tax due, since your friend is an out of country landlord?


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    #8
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Ooh thats a good point actually. Where the landlord does not live in the country, unless the tenant pays rent through an agent they are obliged to withhold 20% to pass on to revenue.


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    #9
    silentrust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭silentrust


    djimi wrote: »
    Ooh thats a good point actually. Where the landlord does not live in the country, unless the tenant pays rent through an agent they are obliged to withhold 20% to pass on to revenue.

    Why oh why don't they just pay it direct to the Landlord like in the UK?


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    #10
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    silentrust wrote: »
    Why oh why don't they just pay it direct to the Landlord like in the UK?

    Why dont they pay what direct to the landlord? The law is that its the tenants responsibility to withhold 20% of the rent to be paid to revenue in the case of an absentee landlord.


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    #11
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    djimi wrote: »
    Why dont they pay what direct to the landlord? The law is that its the tenants responsibility to withhold 20% of the rent to be paid to revenue in the case of an absentee landlord.

    Unless the landlord has an agent working in thier behalf isn't it ?


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    #12
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    irelandrover wrote: »
    Could they be holding back the percentage of the rent to pay tax due, since your friend is an out of country landlord?
    I doubt they are but if the landlord can get them out I'd be pointing my finger at them to revenue as they are legally responsible for paying the tax unless an agent is in place.


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    #13
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    discodavie wrote: »
    Unless the landlord has an agent working in thier behalf isn't it ?

    An agent who is collecting the rent, yes. I think its only where the tenant is paying the rent directly to the landlord that they must deduct the 20%.


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    #14
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    silentrust wrote: »
    Why oh why don't they just pay it direct to the Landlord like in the UK?
    They used to and then changed it I believe ?


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    #15
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    She is going through an agent I believe but the agent only notifies her when there is some form of problem ie a repair etc with regard to the rent my friend needs a tax clearance cert every year for her work so she is up to date on taxes I recon its just they are way behind on rent. Just how interested are social welfare on these issues ? If they give the rent allowance to the tenant and the tenant does not pay it is that not fraud of some sort ? Another friend recons that if she gets on to social welfare they will be blacklisted from getting rent allowance in the future and knocked off the housing list if they are on it but that's no use to my friend who just wants the rent paid in and nothing more. I get the impression from talking to people there are a lot of "forced landlords" in Ireland who are having a hard time with non paying tenants. Is the law on the side of the tenant and little more or is that just my impression ?


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    #16
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Big Davey wrote: »
    She is going through an agent I believe but the agent only notifies her when there is some form of problem ie a repair etc with regard to the rent my friend needs a tax clearance cert every year for her work so she is up to date on taxes I recon its just they are way behind on rent. Just how interested are social welfare on these issues ? If they give the rent allowance to the tenant and the tenant does not pay it is that not fraud of some sort ? Another friend recons that if she gets on to social welfare they will be blacklisted from getting rent allowance in the future and knocked off the housing list if they are on it but that's no use to my friend who just wants the rent paid in and nothing more. I get the impression from talking to people there are a lot of "forced landlords" in Ireland who are having a hard time with non paying tenants. Is the law on the side of the tenant and little more or is that just my impression ?

    Again it could very well be the case that the Social Welfare themselves are delaying in giving them the payments. I myself was in receipt of the payment and I had a form to be filled out and signed by the agent who got the rent every month. If I didn't hand it in every month, my payment was cut off. I had one incident where the agent didn't post the form back to me on time to hand it in to the CWO, so I didn't get rent allowance for an entire month. I did, however, clear this with the landlord as soon as I found out, but that might be difficult if the landlord is abroad. They are only one month in arrears you say, and they pay it late (but still pay it). It might be worth ringing the tenants to see if there is a problem, because in my experience someone who is pulling a fast one with rent allowance wouldn't keep paying the rent every month, and ringing the SW on them isn't very fair since you don't know the circumstances.


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    #17
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Again it could very well be the case that the Social Welfare themselves are delaying in giving them the payments. I myself was in receipt of the payment and I had a form to be filled out and signed by the agent who got the rent every month. If I didn't hand it in every month, my payment was cut off. I had one incident where the agent didn't post the form back to me on time to hand it in to the CWO, so I didn't get rent allowance for an entire month. I did, however, clear this with the landlord as soon as I found out, but that might be difficult if the landlord is abroad. They are only one month in arrears you say, and they pay it late (but still pay it). It might be worth ringing the tenants to see if there is a problem, because in my experience someone who is pulling a fast one with rent allowance wouldn't keep paying the rent every month, and ringing the SW on them isn't very fair since you don't know the circumstances.

    Quick update,
    My friend has spoke to tenants and they are going to make an effort to catch up with rent ! There have been no delays on the part of social welfare they are just having problems budgeting and some unexpected bills came in for them and they fell behind on rent. Obviously my friend is a soft touch as she seems to be last in line to get paid for quite a while now :-( has anybody on this forum had an experience with tenants in receipt of rent allowance doing a runner ? Is there any truth in the idea that if when they decide to move out if they owe the landlord rent that social welfare will act on it in some way ? Block them from getting rent allowance in the future knock them off the housing list or are landlords as vulnerable as it seems ?
    Thanks


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    #18
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Big Davey wrote: »
    Quick update,
    My friend has spoke to tenants and they are going to make an effort to catch up with rent ! There have been no delays on the part of social welfare they are just having problems budgeting and some unexpected bills came in for them and they fell behind on rent. Obviously my friend is a soft touch as she seems to be last in line to get paid for quite a while now :-( has anybody on this forum had an experience with tenants in receipt of rent allowance doing a runner ? Is there any truth in the idea that if when they decide to move out if they owe the landlord rent that social welfare will act on it in some way ? Block them from getting rent allowance in the future knock them off the housing list or are landlords as vulnerable as it seems ?
    Thanks

    It's honest Rent Allowance tenants that are the vunerable ones. One bad tenant ruins it for the people that honestly need help paying their rent. Your friend should give them this opportunity to catch up on the rent - if it is the first and only complaint on the tenant that they've run into money problems, it would be cruel to throw them out on their arses. People with full time jobs and no help from social welfare often run into problems with unexpected bills and someone always has to go on the back boiler as far as getting paid goes. They should be told, politely, that they have one month in order to show a reasonable attempt at catching up on the rent or a notice of eviction will have to be issued. You don't know the personal circumstances, so you shouldn't be judgemental and assume they will do a runner. For all you know one of them might have to receive expensive medical care, or maybe they're paying for a family member's funeral, or maybe the ESB bill was higher than they expected, and it was skip the rent or live in the dark.

    As to tenants doing a runner, the landlord is in the same position whether they claim rent allowance or not. If they are in contract, he/she can attempt to chase them for the rent owed from the remainder of the tenancy, but it will likely go nowhere.


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    #19
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,379 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    As to tenants doing a runner, the landlord is in the same position whether they claim rent allowance or not. If they are in contract, he/she can attempt to chase them for the rent owed from the remainder of the tenancy, but it will likely go nowhere.
    They are not in the same position though as even if you get a ruling against someone on rent allowance they can claim inability to pay which would not be believed in a situation where you get a jusgement against someone who has an income.


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    #20
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Them doing a runner would be far from the worst thing that could happen. Worst case scenario is that they decide to stop paying altogether but to remain in the house. Long, painful and ultimately expensive process to get rid of them then.


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    #21
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,300 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Big Davey wrote: »
    There have been no delays on the part of social welfare they are just having problems budgeting and some unexpected bills came in for them and they fell behind on rent. Obviously my friend is a soft touch
    I'm sorry, but who gives a flying f**k about their budgeting problems. Unexpected bills? Really? They know your friend is a soft touch, and thus seem to put paying for other bills before the one that pays for a roof over their head. Someone talked about paying one bill instead of another; IMO living in the dark is better than living on the street.

    Them doing a runner is best case scenario. Them staying and not paying is worst case scenario.

    Get your friend to tell them that they a month to make things right, or your friend starts the eviction process.


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