Electric shower - pull the cord?

beardybrewer

A simple question here, do you guys simply turn off your shower on the unit or do you pull the cord to cut the power off completely?

Do these showers waste energy if you don't pull the cord?

Xantia

I never do,
However it is good to know it's there.
It is used to isolate the mains power going to the shower.
The only power used by it is to light up the neon that shows it's connected

Joey the lips

I am aware of people who set the dials on the shower and use the pull chord to turn it on and off effectively thrusting the dials like a thermostat. The trouble with this is a lot of the cheap pull chord switches which meet the required standards will not stand up to the abuse of constant on and off

beardybrewer

Sounds like my in-laws are the odd ones pulling the cord. As far as I know they turn off the shower and then pull the cord. I was wondering if this was normal or not. I was also thinking about how now we know chargers waste energy so now we don't leave them on when not in use. Was wondering if that applied to electric showers or not.

chow99

another question, is where do you get a replacement one of these switches when they go?

TheBody

chow99 wrote: »

another question, is where do you get a replacement one of these switches when they go?

Most hardware stores stock them. Even Woodies or B&Q have them.

corkgsxr

Use the shower to turn it off. And ignore the pull cord. In always replacing them. There a pain to replace.

People have this idea too that if the shower goes faulty and you get a shock youll reach out and pull the cord.

That neon uses pittance. Not worth worrying about

Sleeper12

TheBody wrote: »

Most hardware stores stock them. Even Woodies or B&Q have them.

Woodies & B&Q charge close to €25 & they are bad quality.

Go to an electrical wholesalers.Ask for a good quality 50AMP switch. 45AMP is supposed to be ok but they burn out too quickly.


OP Triton & Mira recommend you turn off at the pull cord after each shower however most electricians say leave it on

Keith186

My old cord box went black from leaving it on, probably not too far from burning out. Could have been a poor connection but we always turn it off now just in case.

Wearb

Keith186 wrote: »

My old cord box went black from leaving it on, probably not too far from burning out. Could have been a poor connection but we always turn it off now just in case.

Leaving it on wasn't the cause of it going black. Most likely as you say in your second sentence.

Sleeper12

Your electric shower is rated to run for no more than 15 minutes then 45 minutes off. Having half hour showers or 3 or 4 10 minute showers in a row won't do your pull cord switch any favours. This is why a 50amp switch will last longer.
Leaving the pull cord on won't burn it out.

Wearb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your electric shower is rated to run for no more than 15 minutes then 45 minutes off. Having half hour showers or 3 or 4 10 minute showers in a row won't do your pull cord switch any favours. This is why a 50amp switch will last longer.
Leaving the pull cord on won't burn it out.

Is it the switch or the shower that is rated to run for the restricted times mentioned above? I think that a properly wired switch can easily cope with being run for a lot longer periods than that.

Triton T90 used to be run 4 times consecutively here every weekday morning for a few years and only ever need brushes changing. I never turn off pull switch, except for when opening the shower cover. Even then I also flick the breaker.

Sleeper12

Wearb wrote: »

Is it the switch or the shower that is rated to run for the restricted times mentioned above? I think that a properly wired switch can easily cope with being run for a lot longer periods than that.

Triton T90 used to be run 4 times consecutively here every weekday morning for a few years and only ever need brushes changing. I never turn off pull switch, except for when opening the shower cover. Even then I also flick the breaker.

The longer the shower runs the more strain you put on everything. The cable heats up more & you put more pressure on the switch.

II've seen MK 45am switches fail after a year or two. Replace it with a good quality 50amp switch. If installed correctly you may never have to change it.

It makes no difference if you leave the switch on or turn off after every use. It is not under any pressure. Turn the shower on & run 8.5kw to 9.5kw through it & your switch is under pressure.

Wearb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The longer the shower runs the more strain you put on everything. The cable heats up more & you put more pressure on the switch.

II've seen MK 45am switches fail after a year or two. Replace it with a good quality 50amp switch. If installed correctly you may never have to change it.

It makes no difference if you leave the switch on or turn off after every use. It is not under any pressure. Turn the shower on & run 8.5kw to 9.5kw through it & your switch is under pressure.

I have rarely seen properly rated A/C switches fail, though I have seen it happen with DC switches, which are more prone to failure because of the arching caused by DC. Shower switches are not normally switched on or off under load and therefore should not be as prone to failure as you suggest.

Sleeper12

All I do is shower repair & installation & I replace several pull cords per week. I can usually tell over the phone if the pull cord switch has failed so in another 3 or 4 cases per week I tell them over the phone & they say they will do it themselves.
Triton or Mira tell you what you need e.g. 45 amp pull cord. This is based on a shower running for no more than 15 minutes per hour. But when you hit the real world and 3 or 4 people have 10 minute shower in the space of an hour then you should have 50 amp.
I have never ever had to change a pull cord in a house where an oap lives alone, even if their shower is 25 years old.

Wearb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

All I do is shower repair & installation & I replace several pull cords per week. I can usually tell over the phone if the pull cord switch has failed so in another 3 or 4 cases per week I tell them over the phone & they say they will do it themselves.
Triton or Mira tell you what you need e.g. 45 amp pull cord. This is based on a shower running for no more than 15 minutes per hour. But when you hit the real world and 3 or 4 people have 10 minute shower in the space of an hour then you should have 50 amp.
I have never ever had to change a pull cord in a house where an oap lives alone, even if their shower is 25 years old.

You obviously have a lot of experience with them. The shower makers keep those limitations a bit of a secret on their sales brochures. I would be VERY disappointed if a 45 amp switch failed when carrying less than 45a, and not even switching under load. Have you ever tried returning a switch for replacement? I support it's too much bother, but should the manufacturers be getting away with it?

Sleeper12

Triton & Mira both state clearly in their instruction manual 15 minutes on and 45 minutes off. Problem is we don't read them & don't care even if we do read them. It's more important to us to get the family showered & off to work than follow safety instructions (same goes on in my house). BTW the longer a shower runs the hotter the cable gets. This is where the real danger lies when someone uses 6mm on a 9.5kw shower.
The electricial wholesalers will tell you that the shower is rated to run 15 minutes & 45 minutes off & they should recommend 50 AMP
I,ve seen cheaper 45 amp pull cords need replacing after 6 months. This wouldn't be from a loose wire. This would be a perfect looking switch (front & back). It''l have 230v entering but shagg all leaving the switch

Bottom line Buy a good quality 50amp switch

jca

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Triton & Mira both state clearly in their instruction manual 15 minutes on and 45 minutes off. Problem is we don't read them & don't care even if we do read them. It's more important to us to get the family showered & off to work than follow safety instructions (same goes on in my house). BTW the longer a shower runs the hotter the cable gets. This is where the real danger lies when someone uses 6mm on a 9.5kw shower.
The electricial wholesalers will tell you that the shower is rated to run 15 minutes & 45 minutes off & they should recommend 50 AMP
I,ve seen cheaper 45 amp pull cords need replacing after 6 months. This wouldn't be from a loose wire. This would be a perfect looking switch (front & back). It''l have 230v entering but shagg all leaving the switch

Bottom line Buy a good quality 50amp switch

Surely if the cable is the correct size it should never get hot?

Sleeper12

jca wrote: »

Surely if the cable is the correct size it should never get hot?

Your electric shower is rated to run 15 minutes & 45 minutes off. This is the manufacturer guidelines.
All cables heat up some extent but remember that the electric shower is using more electricity than anything else in your home. It's not possible to run 2 electric shower at the same time in a house as it's too dangerous. It'll blow the main esb fuse. The ESB have to come out to change this fuse.

jca

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your electric shower is rated to run 15 minutes & 45 minutes off. This is the manufacturer guidelines.
All cables heat up some extent but remember that the electric shower is using more electricity than anything else in your home. It's not possible to run 2 electric shower at the same time in a house as it's too dangerous. It'll blow the main esb fuse. The ESB have to come out to change this fuse.

I understand the loads involved but with the proper cable connecting the shower to the distribution board, heating of the cable should never occur. Surely there's some sort of safety factor involved that determines the cross sectional area of the cable used.

SpaceTime

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your electric shower is rated to run for no more than 15 minutes then 45 minutes off. Having half hour showers or 3 or 4 10 minute showers in a row won't do your pull cord switch any favours. This is why a 50amp switch will last longer.
Leaving the pull cord on won't burn it out.

If that's truly the case, that's totally inadequate for normal use where several people in a household could use the shower one after another.

Should be raised with ETCI if those are being accepted as installation guidelines.

Sleeper12

jca wrote: »

I understand the loads involved but with the proper cable connecting the shower to the distribution board, heating of the cable should never occur. Surely there's some sort of safety factor involved that determines the cross sectional area of the cable used.

All cable heats up to some degree. Even 10mm will heat up but it will heat up to safe levels. 6mm cable running a 9kw mira elite will get very hot if you leave it running long enough. The longer the cable run the more it heats up. Even your phone charger heats up.

mikom

The 15 minutes & 45 minutes off is an ass covering measure by the supplier in relation to the shower pumps warranty.

Nothing at all to do with 45 amp switches failing or incoming power cables heating up.

Jaysus, sounds like Keanu from "speed" taking a shower............. "listen to me carefully, this shower must be kept below 15 minutes or else your hole will explode".

Sleeper12 wrote: »

6mm cable running a 9kw mira elite will get very hot if you leave it running long enough.

Which is why you would be a fool to hang a 9kw shower off it.

SpaceTime

Sleeper12 wrote: »

All cable heats up to some degree. Even 10mm will heat up but it will heat up to safe levels. 6mm cable running a 9kw mira elite will get very hot if you leave it running long enough. The longer the cable run the more it heats up. Even your phone charger heats up.

If a cable can heat enough to do insulation damage, it's overloaded and not correctly sized for the task.

Electric cookers for example could draw full loads for hours without overloading the circuit.

If switches or conductors are heating beyond their design limit there is something seriously wrong with the load calculations.

Cables do not normally run noticibly hot in a properly designed, safe installation.

That's a fire hazard and simply shouldn't happen.

You also have to remember that older showers were usually a lot less powerful than some more recent models. They're being retrofitted to inadequate supplies a lot of the time.

You also need to factor in voltage drop on long runs and also that Ireland doesn't just 240V.
It's nominally 230V (EU bureaucratic fudge to unite the UK 240V and continental & Irish 220V systems).

See ohms law!

Sleeper12

I suggest you take this to the electric thread. They will tell you that cable heats up. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it so.

Can you explain why 45amp switches (inc MK) fail at a much higher rate than 50amp? Are all 45 amp switches from all manufactures faulty? Or could it be something else?

naughtysmurf

I recently replaced two, similar to the pic in OP with Crabtree ones, they are larger & much easier to connect, I don't plan to pull the cord for every shower, just use it as an isolator when required

Connections need to be as tight as possible

mikom

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Can you explain why 45amp switches (inc MK) fail at a much higher rate than 50amp? Are all 45 amp switches from all manufactures faulty? Or could it be something else?

People leaving the shower switch on at the wall mounted unit, then using the isolator switch as an on/off switch.
The contacts on a lot of inferior 45amp switches won't put up with that for an extended period.

jca

SpaceTime wrote: »

If a cable can heat enough to do insulation damage, it's overloaded and not correctly sized for the task.

Electric cookers for example could draw full loads for hours without overloading the circuit.

If switches or conductors are heating beyond their design limit there is something seriously wrong with the load calculations.

Cables do not normally run noticibly hot in a properly designed, safe installation.

That's a fire hazard and simply shouldn't happen.

You also have to remember that older showers were usually a lot less powerful than some more recent models. They're being retrofitted to inadequate supplies a lot of the time.

You also need to factor in voltage drop on long runs and also that Ireland doesn't just 240V.
It's nominally 230V (EU bureaucratic fudge to unite the UK 240V and continental & Irish 220V systems).

See ohms law!

While I agree with all of your post, the last paragraph is a bit suspect, you're confusing AC and DC behaviour here.

Sleeper12

mikom wrote: »

People leaving the shower switch on at the wall mounted unit, then using the isolator switch as an on/off switch.
The contacts on a lot of inferior 45amp switches won't put up with that for an extended period.

That's a very old fashioned idea!

I used to see people doing that 15 years ago but all modern electric showers have Solenoids & therefore have on / off buttons. Their temperature settings are saved as pushing the on / off button will turn the shower on without touching their settings.

Like I said several times now, a good quality 50amp should be fitted.
45 amp are not up to scratch. I wouldn't fit them because I don't want to be called back in a year with an angry customer.

SpaceTime

The major issue I've seen is 32amp switches and wiring being used to power showers that were pulling significantly more than 32amps.

You shouldn't ever use an isolation switch to power on/off a heavy appliance though at full power. That's not what they're designed to do.

beardybrewer

corkgsxr wrote: »

People have this idea too that if the shower goes faulty and you get a shock youll reach out and pull the cord.

You might not believe this, but when my last shower failed smoke actually came out of the unit. First time I'd ever bothered to pull the cord and I was damned glad it was there. Had a head full of shampoo at the time too. Typical.