Warriors Run 2013

T runner

spurscormac wrote: »

Interesting, but no use to us non-locals who can't do a dry run of the course.
Looking at my stats from last year, I can see where I was slow and where I can hopefully improve my times.
Was killed with blisters which affected my time last year, so hoping this year I can get to the offroad in better shape, push on up the climb & down the decent, then hold on with a much steadier last road section to knock a pile of time off.

Looking for 10 mins improvement which is a challenge, but doable if things go right on the day.

Just to specify my post was specifically to Stmochtas (who is local.)

I wouldnt say no use though, for others. There are offroad hills most places with tarred roads approaching, so that run can be replicated.

Hill conditioned runners and high mileage marathoners, local or not, do best on the last section.

Hill conditioned runners because:

a) their legs have experienced DOMS in the 4-6 weeks previously to the race so the eccentric contractions on the downhill do not tear at their muscles as much.
b) they are generally smoother descenders and dont brake so the potential leg fatigue/damage is lessened anyway.

High mileage marathoners legs are conditioned through a lot of pounding which protects the legs somewhat during the steep descent. Thay ae used to long fast runs so can "kick in" more easily to a fast cadence after the hill, which is problematic for many. (I lose 30s a mile after the hill when legs are not in shape.)

Useful runs at this stage in no particular order:

1. Long runs on undulating road finishing with last 5k + at race pace.

2. Threadmill hill reps. e.g 10 x 2 min or 6 x 3mins with 50% rep time recovery @ 15 % gradient.

The threadmill hill reps are worth their weight in gold but 2 sessions would be needed now before the race to get most value.
They make your legs stronger for the hills and for the whole course. They are done with high turnover so leg speed is not reduced. Therefore average speed on the flat is increased as stride lenght is longer, and stride rate is unaffected.
You need a lot of strenght work for this race. Also, you need to be as fast as possible. Getting strong and then using this strenght for road speed is a good way to go. Thats why the threadmill sessions are a good value session this close to race time.

3. Long tempo runs, long Intervals (1-2k).





Practising off road ascending and descending is beneficial for reasons given in previous posts..heres a session:

An steepish offroad climb that takes say 5 mins to jog up would be good with a flat bit at bottom (1-2 mins running). Do steady up and fast and relaxed down transitioning smoothly to flat section. Keep doing them and keep relaxed coming down. After the last climb you should be banjaxed. Try to remain relaxed for that crucial descent. Thats the one that mimics the race the most. Go fast into the flat bit at the bottom thsi time.
When the uphills get hard, practice race uphill walking (hands on knees).
* On race day dont wait till you red line to start walking. You want to keep under that red line at all costs. The lower slopes of knocknarea are no place to be in need of recovery on the way up.

Do this session soon if anyone intends doing it, and be careful. There might be a little soreness after but that will be worth a few minutes come race day.

spurscormac

Thanks T Runner - I won't be going anywhere near a treadmill, so will have to find a long off-road hill to try that session out this weekend.

As kinda expected, I haven't as much hill specific training done as I'd like, but still more than last year, and I think I'm in an overall better shape, hence the time hopes.
Having said that, I've done a few, and most of my long runs are on fairly hilly back roads, so that should stand to me.

I've been thinking about breaking the course into different sections & having goal times for each. Trying to balance speed at the start to get ahead of the main pack & in a good position for the climb vs. easing off and having enough in the legs to keep running once hitting the climb.
Maybe starting position near the line is key to this balance and not wasting too much time overtaking slower runners.

I definitely think there's time (& places) to be gained on the ascent & definitely on the descent where I noticed so many people holding back last year.
As my feet should be in much better (unblistered) condition this year when I hit the road, I should be able to knock a good 3 mins off that section as far as the finish - last year was just a crawl really, with sharp pain on every step.

T runner

spurscormac wrote: »

Thanks T Runner - I won't be going anywhere near a treadmill, so will have to find a long off-road hill to try that session out this weekend.

As kinda expected, I haven't as much hill specific training done as I'd like, but still more than last year, and I think I'm in an overall better shape, hence the time hopes.
Having said that, I've done a few, and most of my long runs are on fairly hilly back roads, so that should stand to me.

I've been thinking about breaking the course into different sections & having goal times for each. Trying to balance speed at the start to get ahead of the main pack & in a good position for the climb vs. easing off and having enough in the legs to keep running once hitting the climb.
Maybe starting position near the line is key to this balance and not wasting too much time overtaking slower runners.

I definitely think there's time (& places) to be gained on the ascent & definitely on the descent where I noticed so many people holding back last year.
As my feet should be in much better (unblistered) condition this year when I hit the road, I should be able to knock a good 3 mins off that section as far as the finish - last year was just a crawl really, with sharp pain on every step.

A good start position is vital. But going out steady is vital too.
The first kilometre includes a steep climb to the top road. This kilometre should take absolutely nothing out of you. If youre breathing too hard at the top you've made a mistake and any chance of having a cut at the race may be gone.
Start in the starting position where you expect to finish in a best case scenario. Then run controlled and within yourself until the top of that hill. Dont worry if people pass you: that's their mistake.
Ease into a comfortably hard controlled pace then at The top of that hill---don't push it..just smooth and comfortable. You-ll pass everyone you need to well before the off-road section.
Just to qualify that, last years winner was barely in the top ten at the top of that hill. He put 5 minutes at least on all bar one of that top ten.
On one good year I know pretty accurately that I passed 80% of those ahead of me after that point and did nearly all the passing well before the mountain.
Don't let that first hill take anything out of you.

Breaking the race into sections is a great idea.
A good psychological point to target is when you descent steeply about 2.5-2k out. You end up on a flattish decent wide road. Theres still 2k to go so many people naturally just endure and get through as best they can.
If you decide that come what may youre going to put in a fast km here, like a training rep, no matter how bad youre feeling, youll find yourself very quickly in Strandhill with only a mainly downhill km left.
It actually feels easier to do this km faster as youre slogging muscles are screaming and get a relative break. Its a good pick up for your tiring mind as the concentration levels return. Great for losing the folks youre racing too.
Makes the last section feel quicker and easier. You wont feel like doing it so its a leap of faith....I just try and tell myself: at that point I run quicker, no arguing , no debating, no choice. Remember, respecting that first hill will allow you to finish fast.

bazman

I've entry available if anyone short. I can transfer name
Unfortunately not looking likely that I'll be back to any form in time

Peterx

I'll take it please Bazman.

peaspeas

Hope everyone's training is going well, nearly D-day, can't wait.

Entry gone now

spurscormac

T runner wrote: »

A good start position is vital. But going out steady is vital too.
The first kilometre includes a steep climb to the top road. This kilometre should take absolutely nothing out of you. If youre breathing too hard at the top you've made a mistake and any chance of having a cut at the race may be gone.
Start in the starting position where you expect to finish in a best case scenario. Then run controlled and within yourself until the top of that hill. Dont worry if people pass you: that's their mistake.

That's very good advice there alright. A steady run from the gun, but definitely not overdoing it should set me up for a good climb and leave me with something in the legs for the finish.

That downhill before the sharp left is deffo one to let the legs go on. Would have done it last year but for the blisters killing me.

Going for a long offroad this weekend (~16k), then it'll be an easing off on long miles until race day.

bike2wkr

peaspeas wrote: »

Hi, I have an entry to the run if anybody wants to take it? Friend pulled out and I booked them so trying to pass it on to someone!
Hope everyone's training is going well, nearly D-day, can't wait.

I'll take it off you.

Mint Sauce

Starting to look forward to it now, and hopefully a finish of no more that 1:25:00.

Ran/walked the mountain loop a couple of weeks ago, taking in some of the mountain. Done the Mountain Loop 8 mile at the weekend, without pushing my self in just under 72 minutes, and out on the mountain this week focusing on my decent.

Peterx

howarya T runner, I'll see you in Strandhill, hopefully not all the way from behind

T runner

Peterx wrote: »

howarya T runner, I'll see you in Strandhill, hopefully not all the way from behind

Not all the way, just till the first bend!;)

Seriously, if i make it, I will be trying to break the pattern of you passing me on the Up and hammering me on the road back. Im always confident, although its been misplaced to date.

Best of luck this weekend too.

Maryk8

I have an entry if anyone wants it?
Did Gaelforce at the weekend and doing the 10 miler on Saturday so brownie points will be all gone afterwards.

pmg58

Entry up for grabs if anyone wants it.

PM me

spurscormac

Fingers crossed I make to the start line.

Had a niggle in left foot, so missed a week to let it settle down. Then went our for a run Sat morning and the right knee flared up at 10miles. Stretched it out & managed another mile, but walked the last mile home to not do any more damage.
Haven't had ITB issues in a few years, so pretty annoyed for it to happen now.
Stretching it and strength exercises for the week now, with a trial run on Wed lunchtime to see if I can race on Sat.

On the positive side - if its a repeat issue after 10 miles, the race is only 9 long :-)

T runner

Wont be able to paticipate so have an entry to transfer if anyone needs it? PM me. Thks

cloneslad

T runner wrote: »

Wont be able to paticipate so have an entry to transfer if anyone needs it? PM me. Thks

I hope all is okay T Runner and you haven't gotten any injuries.


I did the Frank Duffy 10 mile on Saturday as a warm up for this, played a match last night too, not I'm hoping my blisters are healed up before the weekend. Either way, I'll be running it.

T runner

cloneslad wrote: »

I hope all is okay T Runner and you haven't gotten any injuries.


I did the Frank Duffy 10 mile on Saturday as a warm up for this, played a match last night too, not I'm hoping my blisters are healed up before the weekend. Either way, I'll be running it.

2nd baby is overdue now so ill bow out. More important things in life.....:)

Will take my good form to the short and sharp clonliffe 2 in 10 days with a new family spectator watching fingers crossed!

Last piece of advice: think positive and defensive up till the cairn, think positive and agressive after.

Mint Sauce

T runner wrote: »

2nd baby is overdue now so ill bow out. More important things in life.....:)

Will take my good form to the short and sharp clonliffe 2 in 10 days with a new family spectator watching fingers crossed!

Last piece of advice: think positive and defensive up till the cairn, think positive and agressive after.

Congrats T Runner.



Thanks for all the pointers. Good luck in Clonliffe.

cloneslad

T runner wrote: »

2nd baby is overdue now so ill bow out. More important things in life.....:)

Will take my good form to the short and sharp clonliffe 2 in 10 days with a new family spectator watching fingers crossed!

Last piece of advice: think positive and defensive up till the cairn, think positive and agressive after.

Good Call, I actually did the Raheny 2 mile last week, as part of their summer series. They aren't that easy to judge correctly for a naive runner like myself.

I hope all goes well with the new arrival.

jamesdeanjames

I have at least two places to transfer if anyone is interested. We've been hit bad by bloody injuries!

Mint Sauce

Between here and the FB page, people are dropping like flies.

:eek:

Hope your not out for too long James.

spurscormac

3 easy miles done last night, no repeat of the knee trouble from the weekend.
Continued stretching & cotton wool wrapping required to ensure I don't have to pull out.

Fingers crossed.

jamesdeanjames

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Between here and the FB page, people are dropping like flies.

:eek:

Hope your not out for too long James.

5 weeks and counting. Tendon bloody itis.

Peterx

I've an entry available if anyone wants one.
cheers peter


and off topic - Good man T Runner

Mint Sauce

Rain forecast for tomorrow. Take care on the mountain section guys.

spurscormac

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Rain forecast for tomorrow. Take care on the mountain section guys.

Its gonna be slippy - those with just standard runners are going to suffer. Hopefully having trail shoes will help me gain a few places.

It does throw in the possibility of a slower ascent though, if some people are slipping more than others, and holding people up behind.

Might have to do a reccy of the start of the off-road section on Sat morning.

Mint Sauce

spurscormac wrote: »

Its gonna be slippy - those with just standard runners are going to suffer. Hopefully having trail shoes will help me gain a few places.

It does throw in the possibility of a slower ascent though, if some people are slipping more than others, and holding people up behind.

Might have to do a reccy of the start of the off-road section on Sat morning.

Even in the dry it can be slippy, I have been using trail runners on it for the last three years, and nearly every time I lose a little bit of grip in places.

Last year my decent was about a minute or so slower compared to the previous year due to all the rain that fell up untill about a day or two before.

Although I would like to add that I would like to see more rules or guidence re etiquette on the decent, especailly on the narrow stoney section between the gate and the car park. Sometimes you will get slower runners or even walkers going down side by side, or shoulder to shoulder. Prehaps a suggestion that people going at a slower pace keep to one side to allow space for them decending quicker. One of the sugestions I did see re etiquette was no shouting, but then how do you warn two or three people walking or jogging side by side that you are running and coming through.

The top section this is not a problem as there is so much space, but further down the path is one 2-3 shoulder width wide.

spurscormac

On the etiquette front, I would hope that people would have the decency to keep to single file if going slowly on that section.
On the shouting front - if I am approaching people blocking my way on a narrow section, I'll give them plenty of advance notice, it's for their own safety. I wouldn't care if I've been told not to by organisers (which on safety grounds would be a stupid decision IMO).

Just wondering if taking a higher line after the gate at the top of the field would allow you to overtake or not - only did it last year, so memory not sure if this is possible or whether it would be better to stick to the well worn path - but potentially get slowed down.

Mint Sauce

spurscormac wrote: »

On the etiquette front, I would hope that people would have the decency to keep to single file if going slowly on that section.
On the shouting front - if I am approaching people blocking my way on a narrow section, I'll give them plenty of advance notice, it's for their own safety. I wouldn't care if I've been told not to by organisers (which on safety grounds would be a stupid decision IMO).

Just wondering if taking a higher line after the gate at the top of the field would allow you to overtake or not - only did it last year, so memory not sure if this is possible or whether it would be better to stick to the well worn path - but potentially get slowed down.

I have and will continue to call on the narrow section, for both my safety and them around me.

As for the top section, I find it best to meander down.

cabbagesnkings

Hi, I'm new on this site, and to running too, so umm, please be gentle! I was just looking for advice on the warrior's run tmrw. I got a new dog with heaps of energy in June, so I started running about 5km every day since mid June around the Raughley area.I could feel myself getting fitter and happened to see the warrior's training plan, which it seemed like I was kindof almost doing anyway inadvertently. So in a moment of bravery I got a place in the run. Recently I ran a 9k loop and felt like I could maybe keep going without dying. I ran up the glen road yesterday without any major problems but I got shinsplints today so if they don't go away by the morning the race is off for me anyway. I'm just worrying generally, does it sound like I'm fit enough to do the run? I don't care where I come, I just don't know if I'm strong enough to do the whole thing yet. The distance itself seems very daunting. I would hate to start the race and be too wrecked to finish it. Any thoughts much appreciated.