ROG vs David Humphreys

clsmooth

Who do you reckon was the better 10 of these two? I think its fair to say ROG had a better career (GS, 2 HC, 3 Lions tours) against Humphreys one HC, but he did have the luxury of playing in better teams. I always felt Humphreys was underated. A threat with ball in hand, great with his drop goals and could kick well also. ROG had ice flowing through his veins and was able to really pin teams back and play the game in the areas he wanted to play in. Not bad with his kicking or drop goals either Of the two, overall who do you think was the better player? Its like 2001 all over again.

Buer

Great Scott. My time machine works!

jamiedav2011

ROG

/thread.

clsmooth

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

ROG

/thread.

What made him a better player? If Humphreys had been 5/6 years younger, would ROG still have been undisputed first choice in your opinion?

Buer

clsmooth wrote: »

What made him a better player? If Humphreys had been 5/6 years younger, would ROG still have been undisputed first choice in your opinion?

Nope. Their best days never overlapped. Very different players. Humphreys was a more naturally gifted player. ROG was the more pragmatic, effective player at the top level.

In the early part of the century, Humphreys was the better player. He was far more accomplished and rounded. ROG benefited from being in the much stronger Munster side at the time. If Humphreys was in that side, Munster would have won their first HEC in 2000.

Stev_o

Any thread with ROG as a main topic is doomed from the beginning

BBDBB

I think this was where I joined the internet originally

clsmooth

I can't see the problem in discussing two of the best outhalves our country has had in the professional era. Its a bit easier to compare players when they are both retired as you can look back objectively. Otherwise head over to the Lions thread and list your 15 for the first test :rolleyes:

slowburner

Humps was an artist and as such could never be consistent. He could be utterly brilliant and few will ever replicate his positional kicking during Ulster's HC zenith. His greatest failing was ROG's greatest strength - the ability to recover from a bad break.
ROG was a grafter and had colossal mental strength and total focus. His ability to tune out was outstanding, especially when the result was in the balance.
ROG might well be the longest serving and most consistent 10 Ireland has ever had. He might also have been the most consistently open channel. He never mastered the ball in hand and only showed some improvement towards the end of his career.
Humps had natural flair with ball in hand but as with all flair, the f'ups could be monumental.
If you were to bet, your money would be safer on the Munster man.
If you were after entertainment, you would watch the Ulster man.

GiftofGab

What does it matter??

These sort of threads bring down the quality of the rugby forum.

As steve o said anything with ROG in the title is doomed. Its just going to end up in bickering back and forth with no real insight or outcome.

totallegend

Well maybe now that both guys have retired, we can actually have a reasonable debate on it.

Personally I was always in favour of Humphreys because I always prefer an out half to be more of an attacking threat with ball in hand and to get his backs moving, rather than the main focus being to get the forwards into position as was ROG's specialty.

I suppose it sums it up nicely that although ROG made his debut in 2000, he didn't become undisputed first choice until 2004 when Humphreys was winding down. So that was four years of intense competition that was of benefit to everyone.

Someone mentioned ROG's mental toughness and ability to close out games which is fair enough, but he had a lot of wobbles early on and Humphreys was often brought on to steady the ship. Now, if Ireland had lost some of those games and the focus had been on O'Gara's errors instead of on a victory, maybe he wouldn't have developed as well as he did.

danthefan

They complemented each other each other for those few years after ROG broke through. Humph could quite obviously do things ROG simply couldn't, but he was also fairly flakey at times. ROG obviously has a lot more in the way of medals.

Cienciano

In an alternative universe somewhere, ROG was playing for ulster and nearing the end of his Ireland career, and a young David Humpheries was playing for Munster and just about to take his place and have about 10 years in the ireland team with pretty much no competition for his place.
Would be interesting to see who would be considered the best if that happened

twinytwo

totallegend wrote: »

Well maybe now that both guys have retired, we can actually have a reasonable debate on it.

Personally I was always in favour of Humphreys because I always prefer an out half to be more of an attacking threat with ball in hand and to get his backs moving, rather than the main focus being to get the forwards into position as was ROG's specialty.

I suppose it sums it up nicely that although ROG made his debut in 2000, he didn't become undisputed first choice until 2004 when Humphreys was winding down. So that was four years of intense competition that was of benefit to everyone.

Someone mentioned ROG's mental toughness and ability to close out games which is fair enough, but he had a lot of wobbles early on and Humphreys was often brought on to steady the ship. Now, if Ireland had lost some of those games and the focus had been on O'Gara's errors instead of on a victory, maybe he wouldn't have developed as well as he did.

because all this really is, is another lets bash rog thread

Cienciano

Stev_o wrote: »

Any thread with ROG as a main topic is doomed from the beginning

GiftofGab wrote: »

What does it matter??

These sort of threads bring down the quality of the rugby forum.

As steve o said anything with ROG in the title is doomed. Its just going to end up in bickering back and forth with no real insight or outcome.

twinytwo wrote: »

because all this really is, is another lets bash rog thread

Great positive input there lads. If you don't want to join the debate, don't click on the thread. Simple.

padser

Cienciano wrote: »

In an alternative universe somewhere, ROG was playing for ulster and nearing the end of his Ireland career, and a young David Humpheries was playing for Munster and just about to take his place and have about 10 years in the ireland team with pretty much no competition for his place.
Would be interesting to see who would be considered the best if that happened

Interestingly I think Munster would have been less successful with humphs at outhalf through the noughties (the great strength of Munster was their forward pack and ROG reliably moved them into opposition territory more than anyone else could have.

Interestingly I also feel Ireland's win ratio throughout the end of the gatland / through the o Sullivan era would have been lower without the consistency ROG brought. However, I think we might have had a couple of GS's and maybe a win over NZ along the way. I suspect we would have been less consistent but with some world class winning streaks :-)

However, if I was able to create those parallel universes I'd have both of the aged 23 right now competing with sexton, along with a 20 yr old BOD / Darcy combo, a 23 yr old keith wood, a 20 yr old richie mc caw with an Irish granny and a magic lamp that grants me three wishes

CIARAN_BOYLE

padser wrote: »

Interestingly I think Munster would have been less successful with humphs at outhalf through the noughties (the great strength of Munster was their forward pack and ROG reliably moved them into opposition territory more than anyone else could have.

Interestingly I also feel Ireland's win ratio throughout the end of the gatland / through the o Sullivan era would have been lower without the consistency ROG brought. However, I think we might have had a couple of GS's and maybe a win over NZ along the way. I suspect we would have been less consistent but with some world class winning streaks :-)

However, if I was able to create those parallel universes I'd have both of the aged 23 right now competing with sexton, along with a 20 yr old BOD / Darcy combo, a 23 yr old keith wood, a 20 yr old richie mc caw with an Irish granny and a magic lamp that grants me three wishes

One of those wishes would have to be spent on a tight head prop.

padser

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

One of those wishes would have to be spent on a tight head prop.

Good point, in fact given our prop heritage in general (loosehead in the last few yrs notwithstanding) I think I'd look to have mr and mrs franks move to Ireland and start a whole colony of little Franks.... I'm playing the long game!

CIARAN_BOYLE

padser wrote: »

Good point, in fact given our prop heritage in general (loosehead in the last few yrs notwithstanding) I think I'd look to have mr and mrs franks move to Ireland and start a whole colony of little Franks.... I'm playing the long game!

Tis a pity Mrs Afoa wasn't in Ireland when giving birth recently

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Tis a pity Mrs Afoa wasn't in Ireland when giving birth recently

Jesus, if we're that hard up for props in 20 years that we'll resort to picking a girl, then there'll be hard questions to answer

trouttrout

I'm only 23, and I can barely remember Humphries playing. It is a little curious that these debates always seem to include ROG though and seem to be just an avenue for people to express just how overrated they think he was, so maybe just go straight to the point next time, ie: ROG overrated?

Teferi

twinytwo wrote: »

because all this really is, is another lets bash rog thread

Apart from the one obvious poster (and really, it's tame by his standards) can you please point out the ROG bashing? I can't see anything.

Stop being precious. This could be an interesting topic. As someone who was much too young to have any sort of credible insight on Humphreys when he was playing I'm interested in learning more.

dingbat

David Humphreys at his peak was a match-winning talent, capable of winning a game virtually single-handedly.

ROG was one of the greatest kickers seen in the test arena both in terms of the placed ball and tactical kicking in play. Added to this was his longevity which was remarkable considering his relatively slight frame.

They were both rugby geniuses, but in very different ways.

clsmooth

Would it be fair to say there is a touch of Murphy and Dempsey in the sense ROG was more reliable and consistent like Dempsey but Humphreys had that bit of magic about him like Murphy and could win you a game by himself?

I find it insulting that many posters on here believe we can't have a sensible debate on two great servants of Irish rugby. All the comments so far have been postive towards both players, which shows the level of respect felt for their achievements.

Proud Orange

Humphreys was by far the better player, he could run a backline something which RO'G always struggled to do and his kicking wasn't far behind. Humps could have done a lot more with the Irish backline in the mid 2000's and RO'G would have been great to bring on at the 65 minute mark. If you look at Ulster in 99 it's amazing what Humps could do with a limited backline whereas Munster was always 10 man rugby.

To be honest I was always surprised IHumph never had a chance for Ireland with a bit of good coaching he could have been very like his brother!

ROG did more with what he had though!

Neil3030

I know it's such a horrible and selective way to remember a player, but that missed kick against France in Lansdowne Road in 1999 will forever haunt me, and thus my memory of Humphries.

We. Were. So. ****ing. Close.

clsmooth

Neil3030 wrote: »

I know it's such a horrible and selective way to remember a player, but that missed kick against France in Lansdowne Road in 1999 will forever haunt me, and thus my memory of Humphries.

We. Were. So. ****ing. Close.

He was inches wide with a drop goal vs Australia at RWC 2003 near the death if memory serves me right too.

sydthebeat

ROG
End of...

Superbus

Barry Everitt, end of.

bilston

Neil3030 wrote: »

I know it's such a horrible and selective way to remember a player, but that missed kick against France in Lansdowne Road in 1999 will forever haunt me, and thus my memory of Humphries.

We. Were. So. ****ing. Close.

The same guy nailed the winning kick away to France 12 months later.

Chabals Beard

I find it really annoying when people say ROG couldn't get the backs going,.. a lot of the good expansivesh backplay during the EOS era went through ROG.. I pick because ever since I have been watching and playing rugby, ROG was at 10 .. it is going to be strange to see a Munster / Ireland team without him..

trouttrout

clsmooth wrote: »

Would it be fair to say there is a touch of Murphy and Dempsey in the sense ROG was more reliable and consistent like Dempsey but Humphreys had that bit of magic about him like Murphy and could win you a game by himself?

I find it insulting that many posters on here believe we can't have a sensible debate on two great servants of Irish rugby. All the comments so far have been postive towards both players, which shows the level of respect felt for their achievements.

You're easily insulted so

The majority of ROG related topics on here end in a car crash

Add to that the fact that a lot of posters are literally sick to death of discussing O'Gara's game and it's no surprise people aren't exactly thrilled to see another ROG comparison thread.

Podge_irl

Humphreys made ROG look like Brian Lima in defence though, which is something that will always rightly be held against him in these discussions. DH was certainly the more mercurial of the two but I think ROG was ultimately the better player.

Proud Orange

Podge_irl wrote: »

Humphreys made ROG look like Brian Lima in defence though, which is something that will always rightly be held against him in these discussions. DH was certainly the more mercurial of the two but I think ROG was ultimately the better player.

Not much to disagree with here, I think that Humps was the better, more skilled rugby player but ROG was the better and more determined sportsman!

Bogota

trouttrout wrote: »

You're easily insulted so

The majority of ROG related topics on here end in a car crash

Add to that the fact that a lot of posters are literally sick to death of discussing O'Gara's game and it's no surprise people aren't exactly thrilled to see another ROG comparison thread.

So don't enter the thread then perhaps? Anyway back OT, I think the difference is that ROG was always slightly overrated while Humphreys was always slightly underrated. Humphreys was the better runner while ROG was better out of hand kicking. Not much in it but if we're talking about both at their peak then Humphreys slightly edges it.

trouttrout

Bogota wrote: »

So don't enter the thread then perhaps? Anyway back OT, I think the difference is that ROG was always slightly overrated while Humphreys was always slightly underrated. Humphreys was the better runner while ROG was better out of hand kicking. Not much in it but if we're talking about both at their peak then Humphreys slightly edges it.

I'll enter the thread if I like thank you very much.

clsmooth

trouttrout wrote: »

I'm only 23, and I can barely remember Humphries playing. It is a little curious that these debates always seem to include ROG though and seem to be just an avenue for people to express just how overrated they think he was, so maybe just go straight to the point next time, ie: ROG overrated?

trouttrout wrote: »

You're easily insulted so

The majority of ROG related topics on here end in a car crash

Add to that the fact that a lot of posters are literally sick to death of discussing O'Gara's game and it's no surprise people aren't exactly thrilled to see another ROG comparison thread.

Stop being so precious. If you don't have anything to add to the topic, I suggest you read another thread instead of whining. You say you can't remember much about Humphreys, this in an opportunity for you to learn something about his style of play.

trouttrout

clsmooth wrote: »

Stop being so precious. If you don't have anything to add to the topic, I suggest you read another thread instead of whining. You say you can't remember much about Humphreys, this in an opportunity for you to learn something about his style of play.

You're the one who said he was "insulted "about people giving out about the thread so I'm not sure how you can say I'm being precious

Anyway just explaining why a lot of people are sick of talking about ROG. I'm actually enjoying reading about Humphries considering I can't remember him playing.

fishook

clsmooth wrote: »

Stop being so precious. If you don't have anything to add to the topic, I suggest you read another thread instead of whining. You say you can't remember much about Humphreys, this in an opportunity for you to learn something about his style of play.

ya, new posters like to read too. rog better than humphy, humphy was a good player though.

clsmooth

Well it's quite pathetic if we can't discuss certain players without people like you saying we're on a witch hunt and why don't we just come out and bash him etc anyways enough, enjoy the history lesson

Fireball07

I do think a lot of these threads end badly... but, it's worth a shot I guess.


I reckon ROG. Humphreys was the more talented footballer, but ROG was the better player, I think. Although he did play in better teams for most of his career, that is true. Both great players.

Micky Dolenz

ROG for me.

The times he has kept his head to grab victory is impressive.

My favourite was against Leicester in Welford Rd in '06. A kick from half way in lashing rain to win the game by 2. Cool as ice. Had a cracking day at the office.

mfceiling

You must all be a bunch of young fellows if you can't remember DH play!!

He was a great talent with ball in hand alright - got to see him when dungannon beat cork con in 2001 in the final of the AIL.

He was magic that day - scored 26 points in total.....great team included humph, jonny bell, paddy johns, tyrone howe, bryn cunningham, ryan constable and justy fitzpatrick and coached by the great willie anderson.

Remember the day well but not much of the night.

ROG was ROG......he'll always hold a great place in the hearts of every irish rugby supporter for that day in cardiff.

justsomebloke

can people please either post on the subject or don't bother posting. if you have issues with posts report them. back seat modding is against the charter

Losty Dublin

Comparing ROH and DH is like comparing petrol and diesel. Petrol (DH) was explosive and it offered the potential to do so much in a short time but it was often a waste and could leave you short at times. Diesel (ROG) may not offer the fast racing pace but it always got you there and ticks over nicely when you needed it to.

astonaidan

I think DH was as overated as much as ROG was. A nice running game and a good game every now and then people fall in love.
I remember the English doing something similar to Cipriani a few years ago, a player who I think is very similar to DH at oh.
Id take ROG any day off the week, a born winner whos passing game has been criminally forgotten by people with short memories.

Anyways dont know why were talking bout this, when the real question is.
Where is the ROG V Lomu thread?

clsmooth

astonaidan wrote: »

I think DH was as overated as much as ROG was. A nice running game and a good game every now and then people fall in love.
I remember the English doing something similar to Cipriani a few years ago, a player who I think is very similar to DH at oh.
Id take ROG any day off the week, a born winner whos passing game has been criminally forgotten by people with short memories.

Anyways dont know why were talking bout this, when the real question is.
Where is the ROG V Lomu thread?

Good post apart from the last part. Would you prefer a Humphreys v Elwood thread? I asked as they are two of the best outhalves of the professional era that we have produced and are both retired. As of such, its a fair comparision. For me, it seems a lot of people have forgotten about how good DH was. Would you have said the last bit if I had started a Hickie vs Shane Horgan thread?

astonaidan

clsmooth wrote: »

Good post apart from the last part. Would you prefer a Humphreys v Elwood thread? I asked as they are two of the best outhalves of the professional era that we have produced and are both retired. As of such, its a fair comparision. For me, it seems a lot of people have forgotten about how good DH was. Would you have said the last bit if I had started a Hickie vs Shane Horgan thread?

Not sure if your being serious, if I had thrown one of these lads :pac: at the end would you have got the joke? As for Elwood V Humphreys, Then youd see me with Green tinted glasses on so best leave that one alone