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Next Doctor

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    #92
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,078 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Yeah but we'd be waiting for him to regenerate every second episode


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    #93
    Killer_banana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    Gambler wrote: »
    Is it Will Wheaton?! :P

    One can only hope... I did find that post weird though. He said it had filtered down to him and he was surprised it's not common knowledge but I was under the impressions casting hadn't even started.

    I really don't know who I would like as the Doctor. I think Gaiman has a good point in relation to it being an unknown.

    I have mixed feelings about the idea of a female Doctor but if there is one I would love Amanda Tapping. She has Sanctuary though and is very focused on being a mother so can't see it happening.


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    #94
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    I was listening to Radio Free Skaro and they made a very interesting point about the female Doctor thing.

    A lot of online commentators are clamouring for a female Doctor as a feminist thing, but in fact this could be seen as a bad thing for feminism.

    The Doctor is one of very few male role models in media who is neither obsessed with getting the girl or solving problems with his fists. The Doctor is worth more (and is perhaps more relevant) as a man than a woman.

    There's supposed to be a great article from one of the English newspapers making this point, if anyone has it I'd love to read it.


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    #95
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    There's supposed to be a great article from one of the English newspapers making this point, if anyone has it I'd love to read it.
    Probably this article in the Indo. I read it a week or two ago when it was posted here on Reddit. It makes a good point alright, there aren't very many non-action-hero male role models out there, it would be a shame to get rid of such a good one.


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    #96
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    That's it, cheers :)


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    #97
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Whilst it can be argued that regeneration is itself a gimmick, the idea of just flipping the gender on a whim would feel like a genuine shark-jumping moment of gimmickry for the show; where the new Doctor becomes less about what would work as a new face / personality, and more about appealing to some broad social / commercial sensibility. Doctor Who should be timeless, not subject to what's topical at the moment & become some form of prism through which we force our social concerns

    The question of equality is too important (and a delicate subject, so I hope I'm not coming across as trying to trample all over it) to simply start gender-bending cultural icons out of a knee-jerk reaction to this issue. As the article mentions, the Doctor is an important role-model, regardless of his gender, but the idea of a male action-hero who wins the day with wits, humor and book-smarts is such a - depressingly - unique concept that to suddenly remove that would be the bigger mistake here.

    The Doctor is a male, non-violent action hero, who doesn't get off with every female character he meets; surely that's the bigger treasure that should be maintained? While I cringe at every Jack Bauer / Han Solo / alpha-male-rogue template that stinks up TV drama, I cheer the Doctor as a true champion of decency, optimism and the embodiment of knowledge triumphing over blunt force (most of the time of course; the YouTube compilation videos may point to violent moments in the Doctor's past, but these were aberrations and missteps by scriptwriters such as the bitter Eric Seward). Take that away and suddenly TV become a little more barren of decent male role-models for 'de kiddies.

    It's frustrating either way because it's making light of an important subject in TV drama's topography that genuinely rattles my cage - the distinct lack of strong female characters, any how many shows miserably fail the infamous Bechdel Test - but arbitrarily flipping the Doctor's gender is not the right response here.

    Let's try to write better female characters to begin with, not change the male ones to female and figure that works just as well. And I'd sooner try to deconstruct the tired cliche of the Doctor / Female companion trope than start shaking up the core mythology because OMG-EQUALITY!!1! reactions from those who (probably) don't even watch the show.


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    #98
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    I must be one of the few Eric Saward fans out there :D


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    #99
    Killer_banana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    That's why I have mixed feelings about a female Doctor. I think if they were to change the gender they would need a good reason to do it and personally I can't think of one. Making him a woman for the sake of it would be the complete opposite of feminism.

    I think it would be better for fans to fight for stronger female characters. While Amy and Clara are strong women on the surface I do feel they're very 2D and I dislike how undying and unquestioning their devotion to the Doctor is. I think more believable and more well rounded female characters would do much more for the show than making the Doctor a woman for no good reason.


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    #100
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭bren2001


    I agree that there is not enough leading female roles on tv or in films. Whether it is actions heros or political thrillers, nearly all of the shows I like have a male lead with (mainly) male support (bar Parks and Recreation).

    However, the solution to this is not to call for every new role to go to a woman. The role has to be right. For the reasons outlined in this thread and the indo article, the doctor should not be a woman.

    If it is given to a women, I don't think they would have to explain the "gender bending", does the doctor have a sex?


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    #101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The only reason people think the doctor "should be a man" is that The Doctor has always been played by a man.

    The Doctor has no control (apparently) over his regeneration, and has said himself, that he could indeed be regenerated into a woman.

    I think it is slightly sexist to forget about that and always have The Doctor "as a man" because that's what we're used to.

    I personally see no harm whatsoever having The Doctor as a female. As long as the story lines are good, I couldn't give a monkeys.


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    #102
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only reason people think the doctor "should be a man" is that The Doctor has always been played by a man.

    The Doctor has no control (apparently) over his regeneration, and has said himself, that he could indeed be regenerated into a woman.

    I think it is slightly sexist to forget about that and always have The Doctor "as a man" because that's what we're used to.

    I personally see no harm whatsoever having The Doctor as a female. As long as the story lines are good, I couldn't give a monkeys.

    Indeed, very good point. It's the stories that matter. Besides, this Doctor may be a woman has been mooted for donkeys years.


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    #103
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    [...]
    I think it is slightly sexist to forget about that and always have The Doctor "as a man" because that's what we're used to.

    That's not the arguments being put forward by me or the article linked above; and it's a bit dismissive to say that those opposed are being sexist as a baseline.

    The Doctor should remain as he is because whilst the lack of good female characters is still chronic in TV (though as ever genre TV leads the way in this respect, go SciFi!) it shouldn't mean we sacrifice our good male heroes & role-models for the sake of what comes across as knee-jerk reactions on equality.

    To repeat, the answer is to write better female characters across the board and make sure fewer shows fail the Bechdel Test, not pulling the Doctor up as a Strawman & gender-swapping him for the hell of it & because the famously lax mythology allows it.

    Hey, I didn't like the casting of Matt Smith at the start & he ended up wowing me to the extent he's my favorite of the three 'new' Docs; so if a female Doctor came along I'd trust the writers enough to give her a chance. But outside of that faith, it would be nothing more than a gimmicky move


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    #104
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only reason people think the doctor "should be a man" is that The Doctor has always been played by a man.

    Have you literally not read what we were just discussing? Not being smart?

    The reason I'd like the Doctor to remain a man is because he is a rare male role model for boys who solves problems with his brains, not his fists and sees sexuality as a complete non issue. This is easily as "anti patriarchy" as a female Doctor, in fact I would say it's more valuable as it's so rare.

    Doctor Who as a series is hardly lagging when it comes to strong female characters. Rose is some powerful freedom fighter, and had the power of a god at one point. River saves the Doctor as much as he saves her and is his equal or superior when it comes to timeywimey stuff. In fact, even as far back as Romana we have an assistant who is literally the equal of the Doctor (a time lord). Doctor Who is not a programme that is wanting for striving for equality (think about how many gay characters that have been on the show in the past few years without comment or some kind of hetero-normatisation. Captain Jack is a bi ACTION HERO. How many of them have you seen?)

    I can see plenty of potential stories that could be told with a female Doctor, and in theory I have no problem. Right now, though, I think, the Doctor we need is a man.


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    #105
    off.the.walls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭off.the.walls


    I'd love to see the doctor lose his memory during the regeneration and he can't find out who he is because he's deleted all his information from the universe.


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    #106
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    off.the.walls wrote: »
    I'd love to see the doctor lose his memory during the regeneration and he can't find out who he is because he's deleted all his information from the universe.

    There's been similar scenarios - Tennant became "humanised" didn't he, during his period on pre-WW1 Earth?


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    #107
    off.the.walls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭off.the.walls


    Aye but i mean like he'd still know he's a timelord and all that but just has no idea who he actually is.


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    #108
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Killer_banana wrote: »
    I think it would be better for fans to fight for stronger female characters. While Amy and Clara are strong women on the surface I do feel they're very 2D and I dislike how undying and unquestioning their devotion to the Doctor is. I think more believable and more well rounded female characters would do much more for the show than making the Doctor a woman for no good reason.
    I think part of that(and I would agree) is Moffat IMH is not good at writing female characters. He builds them from their story in, rather than buidling the story from their character out. They do tend to be 2D as you say. RTD was better at that(Again IMH). His women can be irritating, brave, jealous, daft, smart, strong and weak and sometimes all that at once. Kinda like real people.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #109
    Killer_banana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I think part of that(and I would agree) is Moffat IMH is not good at writing female characters. He builds them from their story in, rather than buidling the story from their character out. They do tend to be 2D as you say. RTD was better at that(Again IMH). His women can be irritating, brave, jealous, daft, smart, strong and weak and sometimes all that at once. Kinda like real people.

    You've hit the nail on the head there.

    I read a tumblr post recently which I think shows the differences in RTD and Moffat's very well.
    I was thinking yesterday about Clara and The Name Of The Doctor … I think character motivations have been lacking since Moffat took over the show and in thinking about whether or not the Doctor’s other modern-day companions would have jumped into that time tunnel:

    Rose definitely would have. But it would have broken her heart. She’d have done it because she felt she had to, but she would be fully aware that she was sacrificing her life, her happiness and her love. It would have been a tragic and emotional death.

    Martha would have jumped at the chance - to sacrifice herself for her Doctor - I think she’d have acted the way Clara did except Martha has the character motivation to back it up. It’s the opportunity she was waiting for, I think, to prove herself for the man she loved. She’d have been happy to go. It still would have packed an emotional punch because you know she’s sacrificing herself out of love, and for someone who didn’t love her back.

    Donna I don’t think would have done it. She wanted to stay in the TARDIS, with the Doctor, forever, not out of love but because it brought her to life. So I don’t think she could have given up that life, even though she could see how bad it was, even though the world was ending. But that makes her very human, so with her, the ending would have been a very understandable and vulnerable ending; the woman who can’t do what she has to do, out of natural relatable human weakness. (Maybe Jenny or Vastra would have gone in to save the day instead in this version of events.)

    But then we have Moffat’s lot: Amy and Rory, who would just bicker over which of them was going to sacrifice themselves first to spare the other one and they’d end up both doing it and it’d all be very annoying; and Clara who just did it cos she knew she already had.


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    #110
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,923 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    So favourite Rory Kinnear has denied rumours... saying:
    "If I was an actor who was really longing to play Doctor Who, then this would be torturous, but it's a programme I've never watched, so I don't even really know what it is"


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    #111
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    He must be the only British actor alive who doesn't know what it is :rolleyes:


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    #112
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    What if John Hurt takes over as The Doctor??

    Hurt-Doctor could be 8.5 - but as he did something terrible, so he's not a true version of The Doctor.

    So The Doctor's karma/lifeline/destiny decides to give that personality/version of him a chance to redeem himself with another regeneration into the same body after 11 gets strangled by his bow-tie in an escalator accident. Thus Hurt-Doctor could earn the right to use the name and no new actor needed.

    Moffat will laugh at all the online speculation and say "Well I DID tell you all who the next Doctor was at the end of the last episode" and we'll all hate him.


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    #113
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,923 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    Gulliver wrote: »
    What if John Hurt takes over as The Doctor??
    Can't see it tbh..

    .. big commitment for a man of 73 - especially given all the pressure for public / media appearances nowadays with the likes of ComicCon etc.

    FYI: Ages of all actors who played the Doctor on their debut... interesting!


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    #114
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    It's not Hurt. Anyways, he's the original Doctor before he became the Doctor, if you follow...


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    #115
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Bloody hell, makeup or no Hartnell was an old 55. :eek:

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #116
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    Basq wrote: »
    Can't see it tbh..

    .. big commitment for a man of 73 - especially given all the pressure for public / media appearances nowadays with the likes of ComicCon etc.

    FYI: Ages of all actors who played the Doctor on their debut... interesting!

    Yeah, but he would only need one series or part thereof (after Christmas) to redeem himself and die a heroic death, making fans go nuts for the next Doctor in the 2014/15 series.

    As for appearances, he might have to ask Christopher Lee and Ian McKellan what they're taking to keep sprightly


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    #117
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    old hippy wrote: »
    It's not Hurt. Anyways, he's the original Doctor before he became the Doctor, if you follow...

    I was thinking of second chances for that "version" of him (be it Ver. 0 or Ver. 8.5 or whatever), meaning the Doctor would regenerate into Hurt again to allow him to clear his "name". I know it's very, very unlikely, but so are a lot of other suggestions on here. :)


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    #118
    T-Bird
    Registered Users Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭T-Bird


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Bloody hell, makeup or no Hartnell was an old 55. :eek:

    Indeed, and David Bradley who is playing him is 71...


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    #119
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Gulliver wrote: »
    What if John Hurt takes over as The Doctor??

    No thank you; I want "The Doctor", not "John Hurt as the Doctor". I'll simply repeat the general rationale of Neil Gaiman earlier in this thread that a 'big name' actor carries all the baggage, past roles and gravitas that comes with it and suddenly the role becomes less unique, less personable & fun. The Doctor ideally should be someone who takes us by surprise, a near unknown, and played by an actor who can pour their own personality into the role.


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    #120
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    pixelburp wrote: »
    No thank you; I want "The Doctor", not "John Hurt as the Doctor". I'll simply repeat the general rationale of Neil Gaiman earlier in this thread that a 'big name' actor carries all the baggage, past roles and gravitas that comes with it and suddenly the role becomes less unique, less personable & fun. The Doctor ideally should be someone who takes us by surprise, a near unknown, and played by an actor who can pour their own personality into the role.

    Don't get me wrong - I 100% agree about an unknown. I think Matt grew on me precisely because I didn't know him from before. But I was just wondering what if Moffatt goes down this road for a season.


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    #121
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Gulliver wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong - I 100% agree about an unknown. I think Matt grew on me precisely because I didn't know him from before. But I was just wondering what if Moffatt goes down this road for a season.

    Trust me, they have already chosen the new Doctor. These things are well orchestrated and planned in advance.


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