Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

LeeJM

jaykhunter wrote: »

Modern WWE guarantees high workrate but I think he means we could use more than the one type of match WWE book, building to suicide dives to build to near falls!

I actually dont think thats what he meant but I do agree with your point the majority of matches have become very formulaic

ERG89

LeeJM wrote: »

I actually dont think thats what he meant but I do agree with your point the majority of matches have become very formulaic

Signature move/kickout. Opponent signature move/kickout. Fans chant this is awesome
Cartoon level comeback with little or poor selling & pinball.
The biggest problem wwe have is that they very rarely stick with a guy. Rusev was performing well as a heel wrestling Cena at Mania....now he's hopefully finished a love triangle? square? storyline & struggling to get on ppvs.
They just drag out feuds now too to the point of apathy. Even if the feuds are repetitive or haven't clicked. Their attitude is sure fûck it we have got tv time to fill.

leggo

I don't get how people don't realise that this time EVERY YEAR they're complaining about the WWE being 'in trouble'. I remember it going back to first writing online about wrestling way back in 2002, and remember Reddit dug out old wrestling debates from 2000-2001, the supposed glory years?

This year the problem is Seth's title reign has no credibility, last year the WWE Title was being destroyed with Brock Lesnar not being on TV, the year before Daniel Bryan's career was being ruined because WWE didn't give him the belt, and it goes on and on and on.

No. The truth is the NFL and MLB are destroying WWE in the ratings, which is always going to happen because it's that time of year, so WWE are going into auto-pilot somewhat and keeping all their major plans for when there will actually be viewers to fight for. They won't go out of business. Nothing will be destroyed. And this time next year everyone will be complaining about a new 'problem' not recognising the pattern, that they won't still see as a problem 12 months later.

jaykhunter

Jeez there's always a negative rant/a pop at other users leggo. It's not a pleasant posting style. Obviously people here know that. Nobody's saying they're going out of business. But it's worth discussing why WWE are regularly hitting milestone low ratings and a downward trend for roughly the last 15 years.

Mick Murdock

There is still an issue with ratings dropping year after year. All of the examples mentioned are genuine criticisms too, apart from Brock maybe. They've overused him if anything this year. Rollins is getting similar treatment to Bryan. He hasn't won a match on Raw in months it seems.

Would it be possible to bring some guys up or back and use them more sparingly? Could Balor be a bridge between the main roster and Raw? He makes some appearances on Raw but not so often that he becomes stale in a couple of months like everybody else.

His entrance is special that it shouldn't be seen too often. Terrible idea?

ERG89

jaykhunter wrote: »

Jeez there's always a negative rant/a pop at other users leggo. It's not a pleasant posting style. Obviously people here know that. Nobody's saying they're going out of business. But it's worth discussing why WWE are regularly hitting milestone low ratings and a downward trend for roughly the last 15 years.

Anyone who actually watches the product has to think they could do better. There is always the post Mania Lull yeah but nobody mentioned numbers.
The Divas Revolution sums up WWE dropping the ball. Rollins reign, continuous feuds that help nobody which leads to talent going nowhere.
Nobody is saying their fúcked ffs

leggo

I disagree with your stance, I'm not having a pop at anyone? It's completely valid that this time every year people have gripes that eventually turn out to not be problems in the end, I've listed examples of this. It's the time of the year WWE goes into a lull because they're getting killed by NFL and MLB, there's your reason for the ratings slump. It wasn't because Bryan wasn't getting pushed, Lesnar wasn't on TV or Rollins was being booked poorly as champion, it's because these cultural behemoths are going to beat WWE regardless of what they do, which is non-essential live viewing especially with the rise of YouTube etc. They'd be fools to spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to fight an unwinnable battle when they have a clean slate right around the time when there's no major NFL, NBA or MLB events.

You're saying there's a problem inherent within WWE, I'm saying there's not. We disagree and therefore generate conversation over that. Everyone being on the same page makes all conversation redundant because nothing more needs to be said. I don't see how that's problematic or calls into questions my posting style tbh. If you want to discuss the issues raised, work away and I'd be more than happy to engage you in that discussion.

billion dollar baby

I've never really put much stock in ratings to be honest. Do the U.S. TV ratings take into account people who may watch via DVR? With a 3 hour show its almost expected to watch that way so you can forward through ad breaks?

What about people who watch on Hulu? Or the Network itself? Last I read they had over a million active subscriptions. I think less people may be watching live but possibly watching through other means.

Personally I'd never have patience to watch Raw live with the amount of ad breaks so I either watch highlights on YouTube or wait til they go up on the Network

Bounty Hunter

thing I find odd in this regard is that instead of this being the period of time when WWE goes on auto pilot should it not be the time when they experiment?

Where was the big summer angle with them trying something different to see how it goes over? Why are they not pushing a midcarder to the moon during this period to see how they work out before WWE's on season.

It honestly feels like nobody has been pushed recently

Rollins: nope, seems to not win on Raw and loses to Cena among others regularily
Reigns: argueable but his push has at least slowed and his feud with Wyatt is really dragging
Ambrose: He kinda got the push last year with his feud with Rollins but the best he gets atm is being Reign's buddy
Cena: he shouldn't be the one to be looked to for this but even he has less focus on him than usual
Cesaro: has stellar matches but isn't even always on Raw and has no storyline iirc
Rusev: The Ziggler stuff has killed whatever momentum he had left, Lana is gone and he was emasculated by Summer

I could go on and would probably have to go all the way until that young upstart Kane before I found someone they were gnot making look weak (except Brock but he's understandably only around every so often).

Angron

I'll be glad when the Reigns-Wyatt feud (hopefully) ends after HIAC. It started pretty well, but as most people have said it's really started to drag the last while.

leggo

Kevin Owens? New Day?

A Brad Maddox Guy

leggo wrote: »

I disagree with your stance, I'm not having a pop at anyone? It's completely valid that this time every year people have gripes that eventually turn out to not be problems in the end, I've listed examples of this. It's the time of the year WWE goes into a lull because they're getting killed by NFL and MLB, there's your reason for the ratings slump. It wasn't because Bryan wasn't getting pushed, Lesnar wasn't on TV or Rollins was being booked poorly as champion, it's because these cultural behemoths are going to beat WWE regardless of what they do, which is non-essential live viewing especially with the rise of YouTube etc. They'd be fools to spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to fight an unwinnable battle when they have a clean slate right around the time when there's no major NFL, NBA or MLB events.

You're saying there's a problem inherent within WWE, I'm saying there's not. We disagree and therefore generate conversation over that. Everyone being on the same page makes all conversation redundant because nothing more needs to be said. I don't see how that's problematic or calls into questions my posting style tbh. If you want to discuss the issues raised, work away and I'd be more than happy to engage you in that discussion.

I get your point & agree to an extent but I recall ratings being down this year even before NFL came back, pretty sure there have been a few discussions about it going back months.

It would be stupid for WWE to use their best/freshest ideas & feuds now when ratings will be down regardless of what they air. However I think it's absolutely fair to criticise what they've been serving up on a week-to-week basis for much of the last year & it's reflected by their ratings being even lower than traditionally expected during football season. It also says a lot when a fairly active Pro Wrestling board on Ireland's most popular forum only gets 50 posts about this week's RAW, most of which being complaints.

Is the NFL & MLB affecting ratings? Obviously. Is it the only reason? Definitely not. Will they go out of business? Of course not. Doesn't mean everything's dandy though.

Angron

Angron wrote: »

I'll be glad when the Reigns-Wyatt feud (hopefully) ends after HIAC. It started pretty well, but as most people have said it's really started to drag the last while.

Every Wyatt feud seems to drag. Every time I watch WWE these days I skip his promos and matches. Bores the arse off me.

Once the Reigns feud ends, he'll attack someone randomly and then another few months of boring promos.

ERG89

leggo wrote: »

Kevin Owens? New Day?

Its nice the latter are getting a more serious approach but Owens hasn't done much since the feud with Cena.
A short thrown together feud with Cesaro that didn't mean much and a lazy feud with Ryback about the IC title which has been easily eclipsed in importance by one of the few success stories this year 'The US title open challenge'

braniganl

Wyatt definitely sucks the momentum out of anyone who's unfortunate enough to be stuck in a feud with him these days. Not all down to him, as his promos (which I assume are penned for him) are generally rubbish. I just skip past whenever he is featured.

Bounty Hunter

leggo wrote: »

Kevin Owens? New Day?

New day are being pushed but tbh they are the only shining light and thats despite them not being involved in any of the major storylines

Owens was given the IC title but his Ryback feud is pretty much a non event and Ryback himself has lost any momentum he had. Even if Owens would qualify 1 mid carder (outside of Kane) being pushed on the entire roster of singles wrestlers is just plain weird.


you yourself talked about how the WWE kinda expect to get killed in the ratings due to the other sports and instead go on auto pilot so why the hell not push some guys you wouldn't usually and maybe make some new stars.

Stereomaniac

LeeJM wrote: »

This is partly true, yes the in ring product has never been to a more consistently high standard and we are pretty much guaranteed at least 1 3 and a half to 4 * match each Monday. Unfortunately the bolded part just isnt true.While we the hardcore fans will watch and love seeing the guys and gals we know are great in the ring just go at it for 15-20 mins, the casual fans wouldnt. And its the casual fan that WWE are struggling to attract right now.

As was outlined by another poster here, there's a lot more for the casual fan to watch. I don't really care what casual fans think of the product. I was just saying it would be better if the performers were allowed to do whatever they wanted in the ring and were given more time to do it within, also. Sure, some of the roster would probably work the WWE style that's expected of them even still, because that's in their conditioning, but it would be a lot less formulaic eventually.

Omackeral

This should be the new direction for the Wyatt family maybe?

Angron

Braun's face is so weirdly babyish looking.

LeeJM

Stereomaniac wrote: »

As was outlined by another poster here, there's a lot more for the casual fan to watch. I don't really care what casual fans think of the product. I was just saying it would be better if the performers were allowed to do whatever they wanted in the ring and were given more time to do it within, also. Sure, some of the roster would probably work the WWE style that's expected of them even still, because that's in their conditioning, but it would be a lot less formulaic eventually.

If you dont care what the casual viewer wants why get involved in a discussion about what can improve WWE ratings and improve business in general? If you dont care about casual viewers just watch RoH, Evolve etc as they have no casual viewers and do the "pure wrestling" thing. WWE is all about casual viewers. Hence it being a variety show of all different characters. Right now the weekly WWE audience I'd say is at about 80% hardcore fans who will tune in no matter what and 20% casual viewers who might just switch over to an NFL game or an NCIS rerun and thats not good for business.

Stereomaniac

I'm not the one complaining about the product here. I've frequently said that I enjoy more from the WWE than I don't enjoy. I don't understand why I am being zeroed in on in this discussion. I'm just shooting the breeze here. I don't care what casual fans think, because I'm enjoying what I am watching on a weekly basis, more or less. What is the issue here man?

LeeJM

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I'm not the one complaining about the product here. I've frequently said that I enjoy more from the WWE than I don't enjoy. I don't understand why I am being zeroed in on in this discussion. I'm just shooting the breeze here. I don't care what casual fans think, because I'm enjoying what I am watching on a weekly basis, more or less. What is the issue here man?

Im not zeroing in on you, I was discussing the points you made. But I will drop it now as its not the first time I have seen you engage in a discussion and then decide you are "being zeroed in on".

We all enjoy the product to one degree or another otherwise we wouldnt be here. Its a discussion forum where fans will discuss the points other fans make. If thats an issue well then I dunno what to tell you

Blue_Dabadee

More power to you if you enjoy the product currently, but others find it hard to see any redeeming qualities of the WWE product right now.

Stereomaniac

LeeJM wrote: »

Im not zeroing in on you, I was discussing the points you made. But I will drop it now as its not the first time I have seen you engage in a discussion and then decide you are "being zeroed in on".

We all enjoy the product to one degree or another otherwise we wouldnt be here. Its a discussion forum where fans will discuss the points other fans make. If thats an issue well then I dunno what to tell you

What's the problem, Lee?

Frank O. Pinion

mod: No personal attacks please. If you have issue with a user, please PM try and settle your hash there please.

LeeJM

I wonder will we ever see the 2005-2010 midcard crew like John Morrison, Carlito, Chris Masters, Drew Galloway, Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin etc get another run in WWE. If they were cycled in for 2 or 3 months at a time ala Jericho, RvD that might work

Stereomaniac

Mod: No one is zeroing in on anyone. Similar to my post above, if you have issues with a fellow user, it is best to take it to PM rather than argue with it on the board.

Sirsok

LeeJM wrote: »

I wonder will we ever see the 2005-2010 midcard crew like John Morrison, Carlito, Chris Masters, Drew Galloway, Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin etc get another run in WWE. If they were cycled in for 2 or 3 months at a time ala Jericho, RvD that might work

Would be awesome if they all were in a faction and called The 05-10 Midcard Crew....

LeeJM

The Midcard Wrecking Crew

Omackeral

Sirsok wrote: »

Would be awesome if they all were in a faction and called The 05-10 Midcard Crew....

LeeJM wrote: »

The Midcard Wrecking Crew

The Midcard Mafia. I think Curt Hawkins and Tyler Reks used that unofficially,maybe with one or two others. Maybe even the great JTG.