Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

sky88

Moneymaker wrote: »

Roman Reigns makes me want to turn the TV off and hope John Cena comes back soon.

Its the same feeling i got when Cena was first forced down our throats badly. Except reigns doesnt have the connection with the fans cena had not even the kids.

I miss cena too never thought id say that ever but he was consistently one of the highlights of raw every week.

Lithium93_

You know Raw is ****/heading down the drain when you look forward to John Cena returning :pac:

That said, i do kinda miss Mr. Fruity Pebbles and his brightly coloured shirts.

beakerjoe

Lithium93_ wrote: »

You know Raw is ****/heading down the drain when you look forward to John Cena returning :pac:

That said, i do kinda miss Mr. Fruity Pebbles and his brightly coloured shirts.

Just watched Raw and its so hard to enjoy it. There is very little to actually enjoy as an adult viewer. The whole show seems thrown together at the last minute with no long term panning what so ever. The have forgotten how to make wrestling enjoyable and I’m fairly loyal viewer but week in week out they fail to build on anything positive they do.

The have probable the best roster available to them in years even with all the injury problems, yet they cant tell a decent story or build a decent character or star to save their lives. Raw this week was a mess and sadly this is what Raw is most weeks. There is always a few bright spots but overall the product is in the toilet.

The main event picture is headlined by Roman Reigns and Sheamus, 2 stars that by all accounts are very good workers, yet both will compete in a match this Sunday that most wrestling fans will sh!t all over. They have failed to get either over as a top face or heel and the audience couldn’t care less about either guy. I know its December and WWE is usually on auto pilot from here until the Rumble, but its much worse this year than in pervious years. The last year of poor storylines, half arsed feuds and predictable 50/50booking has damaged both mens brand greatly.

And thats just the top of the card. The rest of the card is littered with similarly damaged stars who are victims of lazy, half arsed 50/50 booking. From Rusev, to Ziggler, to Ambrose, to Barrett, all of them have been underutilised, booked poorly and the product as a whole suffers as a result.

The booking of The current womens feud is mind boggling? Whos the face and whos the heel? Its madness and lacks any logical thinking.

Zeb Colters association with Alberto Del Rio makes no sense at all? The whole Zeb Alberto angle made no sense to begin with and its made even worse by the addition of Swagger. Its all backwards and nonsensical.

Even The New Day, one of the brighter aspects of the WWE roster from a booking perspective, aren’t booked to their potential. They could be so much more if WWE gave them and their product more attention.

Each week it gets a little bit harder to watch and harder to appreciate the positives because there are so many negatives.

I don’t wanna complain all the time, I really don’t. I realise Monday night Raw will never be 100 percent perfect but my god its doing very little right in the last year and what ever good programming they offer is usually cancelled out a week later.

Lithium93_

beakerjoe wrote: »

Just watched Raw and its so hard to enjoy it. There is very little to actually enjoy as an adult viewer. The whole show seems thrown together at the last minute with no long term panning what so ever. The have forgotten how to make wrestling enjoyable and I’m fairly loyal viewer but week in week out they fail to build on anything positive they do.

The have probable the best roster available to them in years even with all the injury problems, yet they cant tell a decent story or build a decent character or star to save their lives. Raw this week was a mess and sadly this is what Raw is most weeks. There is always a few bright spots but overall the product is in the toilet.

The main event picture is headlined by Roman Reigns and Sheamus, 2 stars that by all accounts are very good workers, yet both will compete in a match this Sunday that most wrestling fans will sh!t all over. They have failed to get either over as a top face or heel and the audience couldn’t care less about either guy. I know its December and WWE is usually on auto pilot from here until the Rumble, but its much worse this year than in pervious years. The last year of poor storylines, half arsed feuds and predictable 50/50booking has damaged both mens brand greatly.

And thats just the top of the card. The rest of the card is littered with similarly damaged stars who are victims of lazy, half arsed 50/50 booking. From Rusev, to Ziggler, to Ambrose, to Barrett, all of them have been underutilised, booked poorly and the product as a whole suffers as a result.

The booking of The current womens feud is mind boggling? Whos the face and whos the heel? Its madness and lacks any logical thinking.

Zeb Colters association with Alberto Del Rio makes no sense at all? The whole Zeb Alberto angle made no sense to begin with and its made even worse by the addition of Swagger. Its all backwards and nonsensical.

Even The New Day, one of the brighter aspects of the WWE roster from a booking perspective, aren’t booked to their potential. They could be so much more if WWE gave them and their product more attention.

Each week it gets a little bit harder to watch and harder to appreciate the positives because there are so many negatives.

I don’t wanna complain all the time, I really don’t. I realise Monday night Raw will never be 100 percent perfect but my god its doing very little right in the last year and what ever good programming they offer is usually cancelled out a week later.

Pretty much nail on the head with this, a contender for next December's PW Awards for Best Rant :pac:

I haven't watched Raw in 3 months, like you said it gets harder to watch every week due to such crappy booking, i mean the talent is there, but the storytelling aspect is so bad as is continuity, and that is 3 things you need in wrestling in my opinion.. I hope it picks up prior to the Rumble and the road to Mania, but i won't hold my breath. It's literally 2 steps forward, 10 steps backwards with the company..

If i was a wrestler in NXT, i'd be hoping on my lucky stars that i wouldn't get called up to the main roster.

beakerjoe

From a bank balance point of view, they make a hell of a lot more on the Main roster

Moneymaker

beakerjoe wrote: »

From a bank balance point of view, they make a hell of a lot more on the Main roster

I'd rather be on less money doing what I love without any of the politicking bs, then being paid a little bit more, constantly on the road and probably miserable and frustrated to hell.

Dave Meltzer said it. Joe should be on the main roster. He should be the damn champion. Gable should be there. Ciampa. Bayley. Asuka. I could go on. Yet I find myself hoping they never leave NXT.

gerrybbadd

I have an ominous feeling about this survey doing the rounds, where WWE are asking fans how it compares to NXT.

They know the answers as to why already. It's like they want to be told even though they know.

My Big fear is that they will purposely start to make NXT shyte, so the main roster stuff looks good by comparison

Itssoeasy

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I have an ominous feeling about this survey doing the rounds, where WWE are asking fans how it compares to NXT.

They know the answers as to why already. It's like they want to be told even though they know.

My Big fear is that they will purposely start to make NXT shyte, so the main roster stuff looks good by comparison

I hope you're wrong Gerry. If that's their(aka Vince) logic then they deserve to be in the **** ratings wise. And also lets hope that trips fights his corner as he's done a great job with nxt.

Palo Alto

They like making money so don't be insane. That's the daftest thing I've ever heard.

Itssoeasy

Palo Alto wrote: »

They like making money so don't be insane. That's the daftest thing I've ever heard.

This is Vince McMahon so nothing suprises me with him at this point. I wonder what will happen when the next tv contract comes up as if the ratings don't get better will nbc low ball wwe ? The WWE network might have been the fall back plan all along.

gerrybbadd

Palo Alto wrote: »

They like making money so don't be insane. That's the daftest thing I've ever heard.

Really? The daftest? I doubt that somehow.

Look, Vince has a proven track record of destroying NXT talent once they come up to the main roster. The Ladies who were main eventing are now in 3 minute matches and twerking with The New Day. Neville was going to be Mighty Mouse. Kevin Owens is stuck in the mid card. When he should be on top.

So no, it's not beyond Vince to break NXT down. After all,if it's not his creation, he has no time for it

Agent Coulson

The New Day = Nation of Domination

The League of Nations = The Hart Foundation

The Wyatts = The Ministry of Darkness

The Authority = The Corporation

The Roman Empire? ( Creative forcing this so it won't work) = D-Generation X

Swagger, Axel, Sandow = The J.O.B. Squad

Stereomaniac

It's about as daft as Charlotte being jobbed in under 2 minutes in her debut.


Oh wait.

Moneymaker

It dawned on me who Reigns reminds me of.

Tommy Wiseau. Oh god.

Lithium93_

Moneymaker wrote: »

It dawned on me who Reigns reminds me of.

Tommy Wiseau. Oh god.

Oh the end times are here if Reigns reminds you of Tommy Wiseau :pac:

Stereomaniac

Come on now, don't give Roman Reigns more credit than he deserves lads. He's not THAT great.

Hashtag_HEEL

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Oh the end times are here if Reigns reminds you of Tommy Wiseau :pac:

"Oh Hai Sheamus ah dose your tater tots?"

Omackeral

Hashtag_HEEL wrote: »

"Oh Hai Sheamus ah dose your tater tots?"

HH where have you been lately brother? Missed you around here!

Moneymaker

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Come on now, don't give Roman Reigns more credit than he deserves lads. He's not THAT great.

What's really scary is all this time and his promo "skills" haven't even improved 1%

Loughc

Moneymaker wrote: »

What's really scary is all this time and his promo "skills" haven't even improved 1%

Believe That.

beakerjoe

Loughc wrote: »

Believe That.

In fairness, hes given awful overly produce scripts to work off, its not all his fault lads

CSF

beakerjoe wrote: »

In fairness, hes given awful overly produce scripts to work off, its not all his fault lads

I think that's largely because they know he can't improvise though. Which I think is absolutely necessary to be a top guy, there wasn't a scenario that you'd have thought Austin or Rock couldn't have acted through themselves and made even crappy storylines somewhat salvageable. Reigns just has no charisma or distinguishable character, other than this 'Look at how much of an underdog I am even though anyone with a brain knows better'.

There was absolutely a future for Reigns in the WWE where he didn't look absolutely sh*t at times. He never really looked exposed in The Shield because they never made him go with what he wasn't good at. He let the other guys talk and did the asskicking and always got big cheers (when face) when doing so.

Then you try make him talk and look charismatic, and be witty and funny and he just isn't good at any of those things and he just looks lost. Reigns is only capable of being an upper card credible star by himself as a heel. It's a lot easier to piss a crowd off and get a face over than it is to make people like you.

WWE keep trying to make him this upper card star of the show face that everybody should get behind but he isn't ever going to be good enough.

Itssoeasy

A random thought is how scary it is that sasha banks is only 23 and just gets it character wise and in ring ability. Just crazy.

Moneymaker

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2015/12/08/5107/

Wade Keller goes ballistic, around 57 mins in.

The entire thing is worth listening to though.

Riddle101

I think Roman Reigns will end up like Randy Orton, more so than John Cena. Orton was for all intents and purposes, the type of guy WWE want in a star, and to be as a face of the company. In fact if I recall, Orton was pushed as the future before, and I'd say he was initially WWE's pick to be the next top star. That is of course if you factor out Brock Lesnar. But like Reigns, Orton was pushed pretty heavily by WWE when he joined Evolution. They manufactured his push to make him into a top star. But when they pulled the trigger on him, and he won the World Heavyweight Championship, things didn't work out as planned, and a lot of people consider his initial push to have been a failure. Within months of his face turn, he was a heel again, and his career has been a rollercoaster ride since. That being said, he's still booked like a top star by WWE and has had a pretty decent career, but he's not on the level of John Cena or Batista.

Now let's look at Cena and Batista. John Cena started out plain as bread. He had a decent enough start, and you could argue that WWE did back him to a degree, but it was never implied that they wanted him as the face of the company. Again, perhaps this is because of Lesnar. But when he first debuted he wasn't all that. Eventually over time, be began to develop himself and his character, and then he started doing the rapping gimmick. The rapping gimmick go him over tremendously, and made his career. Eventually he got his main event push, and went on to become one of WWE biggest stars and the face of the company, and has held that position for about a decade now. Batista also started off pretty plainly. He was debuted as D'Von's enforcer when he had the preacher gimmick. He then joined Evolution, and was protected as their enforcer, but most of the focus was on Triple H the leader, and Orton the rising star. Sometime after Orton WWE began pushing Batista, they had him win the Rumble and feud with Triple H, defeating him at Wrestlmania. Batista later went onto become one of WWE's biggest stars also, enough so that he rivaled John Cena in terms of popularity at one point. Now with Batista getting involved in some big movies in recent times, it's only added to his star power.

My point is, that Reigns like Orton is/was booked as the future. There is a lot of expectations being placed on Reigns to be the next face of the company, but I don't think he will will meet their expectations. I think he may be like Orton in that, he'll have a solid career, and probably will be a popular wrestler. But as popular as John Cena? Not likely. Even try comparing him to Daniel Bryan and CM Punk in terms of popularity, and Reigns is still lower on the scale.

Nerdkiller1991

Riddle101 wrote: »

Now let's look at Cena and Batista. John Cena started out plain as bread. He had a decent enough start, and you could argue that WWE did back him to a degree, but it was never implied that they wanted him as the face of the company. Again, perhaps this is because of Lesnar. But when he first debuted he wasn't all that. Eventually over time, be began to develop himself and his character, and then he started doing the rapping gimmick. The rapping gimmick go him over tremendously, and made his career. Eventually he got his main event push, and went on to become one of WWE biggest stars and the face of the company, and has held that position for about a decade now. Batista also started off pretty plainly. He was debuted as D'Von's enforcer when he had the preacher gimmick. He then joined Evolution, and was protected as their enforcer, but most of the focus was on Triple H the leader, and Orton the rising star. Sometime after Orton WWE began pushing Batista, they had him win the Rumble and feud with Triple H, defeating him at Wrestlmania. Batista later went onto become one of WWE's biggest stars also, enough so that he rivaled John Cena in terms of popularity at one point. Now with Batista getting involved in some big movies in recent times, it's only added to his star power.

Well, I wouldn't say that Batista started out plain as bread.

CSF

Riddle101 wrote: »

I think Roman Reigns will end up like Randy Orton, more so than John Cena. Orton was for all intents and purposes, the type of guy WWE want in a star, and to be as a face of the company. In fact if I recall, Orton was pushed as the future before, and I'd say he was initially WWE's pick to be the next top star. That is of course if you factor out Brock Lesnar. But like Reigns, Orton was pushed pretty heavily by WWE when he joined Evolution. They manufactured his push to make him into a top star. But when they pulled the trigger on him, and he won the World Heavyweight Championship, things didn't work out as planned, and a lot of people consider his initial push to have been a failure. Within months of his face turn, he was a heel again, and his career has been a rollercoaster ride since. That being said, he's still booked like a top star by WWE and has had a pretty decent career, but he's not on the level of John Cena or Batista.

Now let's look at Cena and Batista. John Cena started out plain as bread. He had a decent enough start, and you could argue that WWE did back him to a degree, but it was never implied that they wanted him as the face of the company. Again, perhaps this is because of Lesnar. But when he first debuted he wasn't all that. Eventually over time, be began to develop himself and his character, and then he started doing the rapping gimmick. The rapping gimmick go him over tremendously, and made his career. Eventually he got his main event push, and went on to become one of WWE biggest stars and the face of the company, and has held that position for about a decade now. Batista also started off pretty plainly. He was debuted as D'Von's enforcer when he had the preacher gimmick. He then joined Evolution, and was protected as their enforcer, but most of the focus was on Triple H the leader, and Orton the rising star. Sometime after Orton WWE began pushing Batista, they had him win the Rumble and feud with Triple H, defeating him at Wrestlmania. Batista later went onto become one of WWE's biggest stars also, enough so that he rivaled John Cena in terms of popularity at one point. Now with Batista getting involved in some big movies in recent times, it's only added to his star power.

My point is, that Reigns like Orton is/was booked as the future. There is a lot of expectations being placed on Reigns to be the next face of the company, but I don't think he will will meet their expectations. I think he may be like Orton in that, he'll have a solid career, and probably will be a popular wrestler. But as popular as John Cena? Not likely. Even try comparing him to Daniel Bryan and CM Punk in terms of popularity, and Reigns is still lower on the scale.

Orton was in the top 5 wrestlers on the roster at a stage though, excellent worker particularly before he got a bit lazy and lost his passion, so I don't think that any comparisons between him and Reigns work well. One was a guy with all the potential in the world who worked at least reasonably well as both a face and a heel, and the other is a lad who is neither a premium wrestler, talker or actor, but they still insist on forcing him down people's throats.

It is definitely Cena that they're trying to turn Reigns into IMO. Every single thing is this underdog thing, that poxy promo the other night with him climbing the ladder. Honest to god I wouldn't be surprised if their next feud was Roman Reigns vs ISIS.

ShagNastii

CSF wrote: »

It is definitely Cena that they're trying to turn Reigns into IMO. Every single thing is this underdog thing, that poxy promo the other night with him climbing the ladder.

Yep it's the underdog crap that really makes him look so lame. There is no reason for Reigns to be characterised as he is now. I think at WM31 Reigns looked amazing. He stood toe to toe, blow for blow with Brock. He needs to beast up a little more.

Book him like he was in the Shield. A powerhouse who steamrolled people and wasn't apologetic about it. I'll take RR in the main event all day long but give us a Goldberg/Lesner like freight train not John poochy. Let him be cool and stop forcing "cool"....then people will invest in the guy big style.

CSF

ShagNastii wrote: »

Yep it's the underdog crap that really makes him look so lame. There is no reason for Reigns to be characterised as he is now. I think at WM31 Reigns looked amazing. He stood toe to toe, blow for blow with Brock. He needs to beast up a little more.

Book him like he was in the Shield. A powerhouse who steamrolled people and wasn't apologetic about it. I'll take RR in the main event all day long but give us a Goldberg/Lesner like freight train not John poochy. Let him be cool and stop forcing "cool"....then people will invest in the guy big style.

Not sure you could repackage Reigns now though without a really extended (and not the Rollins kind of cowardly heel) heel run.

briany

Reigns would make a great smarmy heel in the Orton mold. However, I still wonder just as we say Vince is out of touch with us (the IWC), is the IWC out of touch with the kids who Reigns is apparently being marketed to? So when we say Reigns isn't working out, we could well be saying that from our own bubble. And you might say, "Well, my son/daughter/nephew/niece is not too impressed by him." OK, but that's still only a sample of one, or a handful. Until I see an honest to god breakdown of the demographics that WWE's revenue streams come from, I can never totally say that Reigns is not working out.

I think the WWE's woes extend far beyond Reigns, though. He's only a symptom of the banal and sterile product they're trying to push. And beyond that, I think the WWE's way of doing business is only a symptom of a more connected, yet disconnected, more PC, yet more cynical society. I think wrestling has forgotten how to tell the kind of stories that they could in the old days and that's a problem you can't really point the finger at any one factor and say it's the cause, 'cause it's all connected, really. So, when fans yearn for the glory days of the late 90s and the excitement that was produced, they're really asking for way more than wrestlers copping a little 'Attitude'.