Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

Itssoeasy

Stereomaniac wrote: »

The celbration was and still is an amazing moment for me. They both worked so hard for it.

Yeah but stereo how can I watch the end or the match without not thinking about the **** that happened after.

sky88

I just can't watch anything with Benoit anymore. I just can't separate what he's done and enjoy his stuff which was amazing.

Itssoeasy

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I know what you mean. Not from personal experience, mind, I have no problem watching any of his matches and enjoying them as much as I always did. I know many people don't though.

I've watched his other matches on the network but maybe it's because of his son is there at the end that gets to me.

Stereomaniac

I'm not a total Chris Benoit mark or anything, it's so long since I saw it I forgot about his son.

Riddle101

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I hate the superplex. So predictable, never looks impressive and never wins a match. Especially in WWE it's an extremely overdone spot.

While predictable and overdone, i'm partial to the superplex myself. I think it's a good move to do in big matches, or in certain gimmick matches.

x43r0

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yep. He pretends his ankle is injured after an ankle lock. It's perfectly done.That whole match is brilliant though.

I've got to the main event and I actually don't know if I want to watch it.

Is that the match where he loosens his boot laces and slips out of the boot to escape the ankle lock?

gerrybbadd

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've watched his other matches on the network but maybe it's because of his son is there at the end that gets to me.

Christ, I forgot Daniel was there at the end. What an absolute tragedy that whole situation was. I still find it hard to get my head around it

beakerjoe

I just cant root for Benoit or look back at his matche sin the same light. Its hard not to think of what he did.

Itssoeasy

x43r0 wrote: »

Is that the match where he loosens his boot laces and slips out of the boot to escape the ankle lock?

yes.

Stereomaniac

I wasn't watching at the time, I was in a dark period. But were the audience divided for this?

A Brad Maddox Guy

I think because I was out of wrestling almost completely when it happened I find it a bit easier to detach Benoit the wrestler from the murder. In fact I remember the first time I heard about it was when I saw a tiny column in a newspaper, I misread it thinking he killed himself after finding his family murdered.

I don't go out of my way to watch his matches but I also wouldn't skip them either. He was one of my childhood favourites so I'm glad I can still enjoy his work though completely understand why many others cannot. In saying that I'm not sure I could watch the celebrations at Mania knowing now that his son was there.

jaykhunter

The general consensus of what I could see at the time, when Benoit missed the PPV we thought 'ah family problems, serious sickness or death in the family'; when hearing of the deaths, people initially thought it was a break-in/robbery gone wrong type of thing -- Vince even went ahead with the Benoit tribute show. Then when the news got out that it was a double murder suicide it was disbelief (because it is the worst thing that's ever happened in American wrestling). Pretty quickly it turned to a witch hunt about steroids, lots of old non-WWF wrestlers coming out of the woodwork to both defend and crucify Vince, as Benoit had recently passed a drugs test, and his post mortem showed he shouldn't have (the T:E ratio was 60:1 -- although that was due to his Epitestosterone being really low, rather than a crazy steroid injection).

It was a really, really rough time to be a wrestling fan. The milestone of a black eye that wrestling will never recover from, and realising that Eddie and Benoit were gone.

ShagNastii

I was in the states at the time (J1) and I remember it vividly. I haven't looked at it again but IIRC the tribute show did have a weird kind of tone as if the talent and Vince knew the whole story or a least were asuming what may have happened.

One commenter stand out was Regal. Everyone else gave the cookie cutter "he was an amazing bloke" comment. He went to great effort to say something along the lines of "Whatever happened. Make it clear that he was one of the greatest workers of all time".

jaykhunter

It's not widely known (or nobody seems to say it) but Vince was told that afternoon by the cops that although it's not official, it's extremely likely he murdered his family and then himself; and Vince went ahead with the tribute show anyway. I can't blame anyone for being out of sorts at a time like that but that seems wrong to go ahead. A couple of the wrestlers must've known, or at least suspected. Absolutely Regal's words were haunting, perhaps that's hindsight bias though

briany

jaykhunter wrote: »

It's not widely known (or nobody seems to say it) but Vince was told that afternoon by the cops that although it's not official, it's extremely likely he murdered his family and then himself; and Vince went ahead with the tribute show anyway. I can't blame anyone for being out of sorts at a time like that but that seems wrong to go ahead. A couple of the wrestlers must've known, or at least suspected. Absolutely Regal's words were haunting, perhaps that's hindsight bias though

Why would Vince go ahead with a tribute show knowing there was a high likelihood that Benoit did what he did? Out of sorts? Vince has dealt with wrestlers' deaths before - not in the same circumstances, of course - but he's also dealt with pressure, so I think that he had the tools to cope with the event enough not to do something as rash as letting the tribute go ahead, knowing that it could totally blow up in his face, even if he got the word late in the afternoon.

Tribute shows the very next show after a current wrestler has died I have always found crass (albeit not intentionally so) in a way. I think it's much more tasteful to give a ten-bell salute at the top of the show and have the tributes come at a time when the talent is a bit more collected, not shell-shocked blubbering messes.

ShagNastii

It must be noted that the week before the Benoit incident Raw finished with Vince being blown up in the Limo ending on a cliffhanger (probably more remembered for the Paul London smile firing).

It is hard enough to go on with the show but there is no way in hell they could have gone on with the "Is/isn't Vince dead?" storyline given real life events.

LeeJM

I cant remember who it was that said it but I know somebody said they were with Christian and Regal when the news broke and both said "well he's done that" or something to that effect. To the people that worked with him it was never a great stretch to imagine he had done it.

Also just to confirm what Jay has said, it has been said by people that worked for WWE at the time that Vince had been made aware of what had happened by that Monday afternoon.

Personal opinion is he his scum! I would happily never see his name mentioned ever again. I never wanna see any of his matches again. People blame steroids and all the head trauma and I have no doubt that they contributed to his mental state but to me they are just excuses for the scumbag. He murdered his wife and child in absolute cold blood! That instantly negates anything positive he ever done in the sport of pro wrestling. I have a son and to see him upset breaks my heart and the thought of anyone hurting him makes me ill, so for that "man" to do what he did to his own son just astounds me. How anybody can watch a match of his and forget what he did Ill never understand.

Itssoeasy

I don't remember hearing about Benoit until very close to the time and I think raw as on earlier so I decided to watch it. I can remember the empty arena and Vince standing there.

It's interesting that people are saying that they knew as I remember regals reaction was very strange. All the others talked about him as a person but regal talked about him as a wrestler only.

The wrestling observer from the time is on YouTube and I listened to it yesterday. Interesting to hear it as it was happening.

I watched a news clip of Steve Blackman and Marc mero after it happened. Blackman comes across well but mero comes across as an utter asshole.

Stereomaniac

Nowadays Marc Mero seems like a fairly well-rounded individual, giving motivational talks at schools and things like that. Was he grinding an axe when he appeared on television? I don't remember where I was when it happened but I remember talking to someone about it in a haze in London a month or two later. He always stood out to me when he was in The Four Horsemen in WCW and I got big into him when he was finally in the WWE. He never ascended to the heights that I thought he would in the first few years he was there though.

LeeJM

Dont know who you are thinking of Stereo but Marc Mero was never a Horseman

Itssoeasy

Paul Roma ?

LeeJM

LeeJM wrote: »

Dont know who you are thinking of Stereo but Marc Mero was never a Horseman

Benoit

beakerjoe

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I don't remember hearing about Benoit until very close to the time and I think raw as on earlier so I decided to watch it. I can remember the empty arena and Vince standing there.

It's interesting that people are saying that they knew as I remember regals reaction was very strange. All the others talked about him as a person but regal talked about him as a wrestler only.

The wrestling observer from the time is on YouTube and I listened to it yesterday. Interesting to hear it as it was happening.

I watched a news clip of Steve Blackman and Marc mero after it happened. Blackman comes across well but mero comes across as an utter asshole.

Mero is very anti wrestling these days. Hes very critical of McMahon and the business as a whole. While he can come across as bitter and having his own agenda, you cant really blame him. Vince did drive a wedge between him and his then wife sable.

sky88

The miz is one of the most underrated guys at the minute. Hes brilliant on the mic when given the chance. Hes very underrated in the ring. his matches with Aj have probably been ajs best since joining the wwe.

I think even with sandow last year he was the glue that kept the angle together because he can be such an overpowering smug personality which was the perfect foil for sandows hijinks.

Itssoeasy

Kurt angle vs HBK at wrestlemania 21. ****** star match. It's just utterly glorious pro wrestling artistry. If you can watch it.

WinnyThePoo

Just realised Lucha Undergrounds back. Just watched the first episode there.

Pentecost

Just watching the Stone Cold podcast with Brock, never got around to watching it until now. Brock is actually much more articulate than I expected. Not sure why I thought he wouldn't be, maybe because he doesn't say much on TV.

Stereomaniac

Brock Lesnar seems like an alright kind of guy but someone who if you didn't have some sort of connection to him, or provide him with a reason to like you, wouldn't give you even hello.

Pentecost

He says that himself he legitimately just doesn't like being around people. Just does his job and goes back to his farm.

Lithium93_

Reading up on WWE's 2002 Plane Ride From Hell, and the **** that went down on that flight, today's talent wouldn't be able to pull off such capers/shenanigans/whataboutery.