Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

Angron

Yeah, the TNA stuff was nothing to be proud of, but leaving in a cheap shot like that on a company that wishes it could have been a challenger to WWE is just petty.

ShagNastii

It's amazing how much of a blip TNA is in WWE's rear view mirror. I used to adore TNA around 2004-2007. Their roster was jam packed with talent (most of which are now central to WWEs newest crop). A huge mix of established stars and guys they had made.

Could they ever have made it to a complete even keel with WWE like WCW did during the mid-late 90s?

sky88

ShagNastii wrote: »

It's amazing how much of a blip TNA is in WWE's rear view mirror. I used to adore TNA around 2004-2007. Their roster was jam packed with talent (most of which are now central to WWEs newest crop). A huge mix of established stars and guys they had made.

Could they ever have made it to a complete even keel with WWE like WCW did during the mid-late 90s?

during that time period i probaley watched more TNA then i did wwe as that was during cenas reign of terror on raw. it just had so much quality matches.

brianregan09

Where did ye watch the bischoff doc wouldn't mind a look

brianregan09

brianregan09 wrote: »

Where did ye watch the bischoff doc wouldn't mind a look

I watched it on the network. It's in the beyond the ring section.

Agent Coulson

Anyone shouting out "You still got it" and "This is Awesome" need to thrown out of the building and given a kicking!



I'd take the "What" chants all day over them.

martyos121

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Anyone shouting out "You still got it" and "This is Awesome" need to thrown out of the building and given a kicking!



I'd take the "What" chants all day over them.

And "Holy Shît" too. They all do my head in. I'll gladly provide said kicking.

sky88

i dont mind them that much as long as there in the right segment or match. it was totally out of place when they chanted to taker you still got it during his segment on smackdown

beakerjoe

Id take a vocal yahoo crowd all day over a dead, lets sit on our hands crowd.

They pay their money, they can chant what they want.

LeeJM

beakerjoe wrote: »

Id take a vocal yahoo crowd all day over a dead, lets sit on our hands crowd.

They pay their money, they can chant what they want.

Its actually an interesting debate re crowds and chants. A lively crowd is 95% of the time a positive. But then you have moments like Taker on SD getting you still got it chants for cutting a promo or chants of this is awesome before people even lock up.

I understand the concept of they pay their money therefore can chant what they want but when does a rowdy crowd become a negative? Is fans chanting CM Punk during a Cruisers match on Raw a positive? Is fans chanting JBL during a Sheamus Randy Orton a positive? The you deserve it chants IMO have become meaningless because now it seems everytime somebody wins a title or gets a half decent pop we get a You Deserve It chant.

Itssoeasy

LeeJM wrote: »

Its actually an interesting debate re crowds and chants. A lively crowd is 95% of the time a positive. But then you have moments like Taker on SD getting you still got it chants for cutting a promo or chants of this is awesome before people even lock up.

I understand the concept of they pay their money therefore can chant what they want but when does a rowdy crowd become a negative? Is fans chanting CM Punk during a Cruisers match on Raw a positive? Is fans chanting JBL during a Sheamus Randy Orton a positive? The you deserve it chants IMO have become meaningless because now it seems everytime somebody wins a title or gets a half decent pop we get a You Deserve It chant.

Well the one time I was delighted to hear a "you still got it" was when Ricky steamboat faced Jericho a few years back as they were right he did.

But yeah the chanted it for taker cutting a promo was stupid.

Also I liked the crowd reaction to Mickie James at nxt takeover as she seemed to be genuinely moved by it and it was a nice moment. I hope they filmed a full behind the scenes stuff as she said in the few clips on WWE.com that she saw a load of old faces.

Itssoeasy

Also 32 years ago today Ric flair faced off against dusty Rhodes at starrcade 84 for the NWA worlds heavyweight title.

beakerjoe

LeeJM wrote: »

Its actually an interesting debate re crowds and chants. A lively crowd is 95% of the time a positive. But then you have moments like Taker on SD getting you still got it chants for cutting a promo or chants of this is awesome before people even lock up.

I understand the concept of they pay their money therefore can chant what they want but when does a rowdy crowd become a negative? Is fans chanting CM Punk during a Cruisers match on Raw a positive? Is fans chanting JBL during a Sheamus Randy Orton a positive? The you deserve it chants IMO have become meaningless because now it seems everytime somebody wins a title or gets a half decent pop we get a You Deserve It chant.

Those two points in question are simply fans who WWE failed to keep them entertained. the lack of decent booking regarding the cruisers, as well as the upteenth Randy v sheamus bout, I really can't blame the crowds. They are essentially bored by what they say or had no reason to care. WWE are to blame here, not the fans.

The "this is awesome/holy ****" chants are overused, but they are fans simply being appreciative, even if the chants are unwarrented in some cases.

LeeJM

beakerjoe wrote: »

Those two points in question are simply fans who WWE failed to keep them entertained. the lack of decent booking regarding the cruisers, as well as the upteenth Randy v sheamus bout, I really can't blame the crowds. They are essentially bored by what they say or had no reason to care. WWE are to blame here, not the fans.

The "this is awesome/holy ****" chants are overused, but they are fans simply being appreciative, even if the chants are unwarrented in some cases.

If they arent entertained by a certain segment they dont have to shít on the workers in the ring. They can talk to the person beside them, check stuff on their phone, go to the concession stands, go get food or a drink, go to the bathroom.

The attitude of "oh its Orton vs Sheamus. Fùck those guys. Lets chant for CM Punk" or "i dont know these cruiserweights. Lets chant at JBL" is stupid. Its disrespectful to the wrestlers in the ring also.

And on the CM Punk chants, this is WWE fans chanting for a guy that couldnt give a flying **** about WWE or its fans! To chant is name is just ridiculous.

LeeJM

beakerjoe wrote: »

The "this is awesome/holy ****" chants are overused, but they are fans simply being appreciative, even if the chants are unwarrented in some cases.

These two chants have lost all meaning. Fans have no idea now how to let a moment breathe. Imagine how annoying the crowd would be if we got a moment like The Rock Hollywood Hogan staredown on Raw. Fans chanting welcome back and you still got it at Hogan, then you deserve it when the match is made, then this is awesome followed by fight forever just because they need to get all their shît in before the segment ended. Fans feel like they gotta be above it all and instead of enjoying a moment, they wanna be the guy/girl to start the chant.

Lithium93_

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Anyone shouting out "You still got it" and "This is Awesome" need to thrown out of the building and given a kicking!



I'd take the "What" chants all day over them.

That grinds my gears, case in point The Undertaker last week on Smackdown, cutting a promo, certain minority of the crowd chanting "You still got", I was thinking, he's talking into a microphone..

And the "This Is Awesome" is fine for genuinely actually "THIS IS AWESOME" worthy moments, but it's been thrown about way too much lately/used for the sake of it.

I get it, people pay good money to go to these shows, but there's a certain line that shouldn't be crossed, applies for promos being cut, and 2 wrestlers in the ring that maybe people don't like, but someone said it, check your phone, hit the merch stands, go for food/drink or buy some merch..

jaykhunter

I wanna get in on hating the "this is awesome" chant. If it was really that awesome, you'd be too busy losing your shít!

LeeJM

jaykhunter wrote: »

I wanna get in on hating the "this is awesome" chant. If it was really that awesome, you'd be too busy losing your shít!

Nail on head!

leggo

I never get why fans turn on other fans. It happens in all industries where fandom is relevant, when I used to work in gigs you'd hear Boyzone or AC/DC fans giving out about other fans who weren't 'doing it right' or 'didn't get it', but I've never understood it.

One person's way of celebrating their appreciation for something doesn't have to impinge on yours. TBH I don't even hear 'this is awesome' chants most of the time (unless I agree with them then it adds to my enjoyment). The only time what fans are chanting even come into my periphery is when they take over a segment, and then usually that's done because the wrestler in the ring can't handle them so it's on the wrestler as much as anyone.

If anything enjoying something and finding others who do so should bond and unify people. I think if you're offended by how other people enjoy what you like, then you're perhaps taking it too seriously and it's become a part of your self-esteem and that's when interests become unhealthy.

My one pet peeve, with wrestling or any kind of fandom, is if I'm caught beside or behind a knob trying to shout over the act to try be funny. But that's more down to my hate of unwanted attention seekers than anything else.

Itssoeasy

Lithium93_ wrote: »

That grinds my gears, case in point The Undertaker last week on Smackdown, cutting a promo, certain minority of the crowd chanting "You still got", I was thinking, he's talking into a microphone..

And the "This Is Awesome" is fine for genuinely actually "THIS IS AWESOME" worthy moments, but it's been thrown about way too much lately/used for the sake of it.

I get it, people pay good money to go to these shows, but there's a certain line that shouldn't be crossed, applies for promos being cut, and 2 wrestlers in the ring that maybe people don't like, but someone said it, check your phone, hit the merch stands, go for food/drink or buy some merch..

yeah well done undertaker your vocal cords still work. Good on you.

martyos121

leggo wrote: »

I never get why fans turn on other fans. It happens in all industries where fandom is relevant, when I used to work in gigs you'd hear Boyzone or AC/DC fans giving out about other fans who weren't 'doing it right' or 'didn't get it', but I've never understood it.

One person's way of celebrating their appreciation for something doesn't have to impinge on yours. TBH I don't even hear 'this is awesome' chants most of the time (unless I agree with them then it adds to my enjoyment). The only time what fans are chanting even come into my periphery is when they take over a segment, and then usually that's done because the wrestler in the ring can't handle them so it's on the wrestler as much as anyone.

If anything enjoying something and finding others who do so should bond and unify people. I think if you're offended by how other people enjoy what you like, then you're perhaps taking it too seriously and it's become a part of your self-esteem and that's when interests become unhealthy.

My one pet peeve, with wrestling or any kind of fandom, is if I'm caught beside or behind a knob trying to shout over the act to try be funny. But that's more down to my hate of unwanted attention seekers than anything else.

I think you're reading waaaaay too much into this. Can't speak for everyone, but I highly doubt anyone is "offended" by this (annoyed? Yeah probably.) and I definitely don't think someone's opinion of what thousands of random strangers on the telly are doing is going to tear their own self-esteem down, speaking from personal experience anyway. I found that paragraph very odd tbh.

leggo

With that, I was more thinking along the lines of Beliebers who break down crying because someone says they want to ride Justin instead of professing true and pure love to him, because that's 'the right way to be a fan'.

Same deal: people saying "No! You must enjoy this the way that I enjoy it or else you are enjoying it wrong!" If you care about something that much that your enjoyment of it then begins to cause you anger, that's when it starts to become unhealthy. Hence that paragraph.

Why does it bother people if fans chant 'This is awesome'? I mean, are people concerned for the integrity of the word 'awesome' and hate to see it bastardised? I don't get it. They're just enjoying a match or moment. Why is that a problem?

Genuine question, I'd love a reasoned explanation so I can go, "Ah yeah, I get you now!"

Angron

ShagNastii wrote: »

It's amazing how much of a blip TNA is in WWE's rear view mirror. I used to adore TNA around 2004-2007. Their roster was jam packed with talent (most of which are now central to WWEs newest crop). A huge mix of established stars and guys they had made.

Could they ever have made it to a complete even keel with WWE like WCW did during the mid-late 90s?

Honestly, even at the peak of TNAs popularity, I don't think they ever could have had a chance. WWE has had such a stranglehold on the industry that I can't see them every having "competition", just companies that are alternatives.

WCW only had its chance because Ted Turner was willing to splash out some serious cash for it, I can't see anyone being willing to do that now.

Chain Smoker

Lithium93_ wrote: »

That grinds my gears, case in point The Undertaker last week on Smackdown, cutting a promo, certain minority of the crowd chanting "You still got", I was thinking, he's talking into a microphone..

He certainly does, as ****ing awful on the mic as ever



My attitude towards all of those chants is that they're just evidence the crowd isn't into the moment. If they were, there's no way they'd be able to orchestrate a stupid chant.

"CM PUNK!" is a pretty great f*ck you though, in fairness. Has Jeff Jarrett ever been a chant?

Agent Coulson

The only way a new wrestling company would stand a slim chance to compete with the WWE is if a a major TV channel in the States gave it a prime time slot and said you have a couple of years to build a viewership and don't have to worry about TV ratings and even then they would more than likely struggle because they would need to be touring as well and they would need a major face to the company and there is no free agent that big enough to be the face of a rival company to compete with the WWE.


If by chance they did make a name for themselves the WWE would poach the talent as we all know it's every wrestlers dream to be in the WWE.


But no channel is going to give up a prime time slot to a wrestling company in the way Ted Turner did.

beakerjoe

I can see what you guys are saying Lee.

You may call it disrespectful, and I tend to agree with you to a certain degree. I believe the disrespect is aimed at WWE who booked the match and they are more or less telling them, we don’t wanna see Sheamus and Orton face each other for the 1248th time this year. While it really isn’t showing any respect to the lads in the ring, these guys are well paid professionals who said fans are paying by coming to the show. Randy and Sheamo won’t really be bothered with it and I don’t sweat it either.

Lets remember, when fans start up these CM punk chants etc, they usually are in throw away matches anyway or poorly booked matches. Its up to WWE to do a better job and try entertain them. These chants really don’t bother me and I really don’t think it’s that disrespectful in the grand scheme of things.

And while I do agree the “this is awesome” chants get dished out for everything these days willy nilly, it really doesn’t bother me. Like I said earlier, a dead crowd would be a worse situation for me as a viewer than an easily pleased set of fans. How other fans enjoy the show doesn’t bother me once they are happy and respectful to other fans (like Leggo mentioned, those attention seeking fans who think they are hilarious.)

Come on lads theres worse things in the world to be annoyed/offended at than an overused "this is awesome" chant

leggo

A company could easily come along and compete with WWE. You just can't build it from the ground up, though. Like no TV deal, or programming structure, or business plan will automatically parachute someone up to WWE's level. They're way too big. The trick is inspiration and creative.

If a promotion came along with a character like SCSA in the 90's (I don't mean the same kind of character; I mean a character that connected on the same visceral level he did, at the right place and right time, and caught pop culture's imagination). If they did stuff that connected with wrestling fans so much that they shared it, made GIFs and memes of it, all the stuff that gets something viral and popular in 2016, to the point that non-wrestling fans then checked it out and were so impressed by what they saw that they wrote off their "Wrestling is dumb" attitudes (as they did for SCSA in the 90's) and there was this groundswell of interest that all of a sudden needed to be satiated, they could immediately compete with WWE in the ratings. But the company would need to have the infrastructure and budget to be able to fill this demand or WWE would likely just write a cheque and sign up this talent.

Example: if TNA got a huge investment of cash and cut Conor McGregor a big cheque to get him exclusively performing on Impact. You'd want to watch right? Your friends would too and ratings could be huge, so Networks would want to be involved and would queue up. TNA is used to producing TV, PPVs etc, it has people within the wrestling industry working for them so they've got contacts to get anybody on staff to fill a role that they need so they've the infrastructure there. You'd forget what you thought about TNA previously because this is a game-changer. Put them on a prime time slot and boom, you've got instant competition to WWE. They're a fraction the size of the company itself but that can all change with a boom period, WWE were only a couple of years into the Attitude Era before they floated the company on Wall Street and never looked back, for example. UFC are a much younger company than WWE but were managed well and sold for $4billion recently, a figure WWE wouldn't even get close to on the open market.

The problem is most wrestling companies are looking the other direction and they're trying to please the likes of here and Squared Circle, i.e. hardcore fans. That's a relatively small market and the introverted marketing of the product, usually based around some derivation of "We give the fans what they want! We're wrestling not entertainment!" is the kind of stuff that mass audiences don't give a **** about. So they're not going to grow. The only company, that I can see, with even a view to making a more mass entertainment product (and doing it quite successfully) is ICW. But they're very localised and their mass appeal is rooted in quite colloquial, Scottish humour. So they're already close to their ceiling.

Aside from them WWE are the only game in town even trying to get a mass audience. They're the only people who understand that 95% of the planet don't care about the wrestling that happens between the ropes, but will tolerate it as a form of conflict resolution (and eventually get into it if the product is good enough) if the storylines and characters are good enough. That's the one thing Vince McMahon has always understood that nobody else did and why nobody else has ever come near him, success-wise.

Omackeral

I don't think anyone is offended whatsoever.

beakerjoe

leggo wrote: »

A company could easily come along and compete with WWE. You just can't build it from the ground up, though. Like no TV deal, or programming structure, or business plan will automatically parachute someone up to WWE's level. They're way too big. The trick is inspiration and creative.

If a promotion came along with a character like SCSA in the 90's (I don't mean the same kind of character; I mean a character that connected on the same visceral level he did, at the right place and right time, and caught pop culture's imagination). If they did stuff that connected with wrestling fans so much that they shared it, made GIFs and memes of it, all the stuff that gets something viral and popular in 2016, to the point that non-wrestling fans then checked it out and were so impressed by what they saw that they wrote off their "Wrestling is dumb" attitudes (as they did for SCSA in the 90's) and there was this groundswell of interest that all of a sudden needed to be satiated, they could immediately compete with WWE in the ratings. But the company would need to have the infrastructure and budget to be able to fill this demand or WWE would likely just write a cheque and sign up this talent.

Example: if TNA got a huge investment of cash and cut Conor McGregor a big cheque to get him exclusively performing on Impact. You'd want to watch right? Your friends would too and ratings could be huge, so Networks would want to be involved and would queue up. TNA is used to producing TV, PPVs etc, it has people within the wrestling industry working for them so they've got contacts to get anybody on staff to fill a role that they need so they've the infrastructure there. You'd forget what you thought about TNA previously because this is a game-changer. Put them on a prime time slot and boom, you've got instant competition to WWE. They're a fraction the size of the company itself but that can all change with a boom period, WWE were only a couple of years into the Attitude Era before they floated the company on Wall Street and never looked back, for example. UFC are a much younger company than WWE but were managed well and sold for $4billion recently, a figure WWE wouldn't even get close to on the open market.

The problem is most wrestling companies are looking the other direction and they're trying to please the likes of here and Squared Circle, i.e. hardcore fans. That's a relatively small market and the introverted marketing of the product, usually based around some derivation of "We give the fans what they want! We're wrestling not entertainment!" is the kind of stuff that mass audiences don't give a **** about. So they're not going to grow. The only company, that I can see, with even a view to making a more mass entertainment product (and doing it quite successfully) is ICW. But they're very localised and their mass appeal is rooted in quite colloquial, Scottish humour. So they're already close to their ceiling.

Aside from them WWE are the only game in town even trying to get a mass audience. They're the only people who understand that 95% of the planet don't care about the wrestling that happens between the ropes, but will tolerate it as a form of conflict resolution (and eventually get into it if the product is good enough) if the storylines and characters are good enough. That's the one thing Vince McMahon has always understood that nobody else did and why nobody else has ever come near him, success-wise.

WCW were going no where fast in 93, but then big cheques to Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall and others turned the tide. They literally took all the household names from WWE bar Bret, Taker and Shawn and put them on their show and with shows in a big Disney studio, to the casual viewer, it was the same names on a similar show.

If someone did the same with WWE now, signed up their star names in similar fashion it could work. If Cena, Rollins, Owens, Ziggler and AJ Styles others suddenly jumped ship and turned up on Impact, people would watch.

beakerjoe

Omackeral wrote: »

I don't think anyone is offended whatsoever.

Offended isn’t the right word but people seem to be a bit annoyed to say the least.

But its wrestling, and one of its beauty’s is that its all subjective. Different strokes for different folks.