Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

Cheese Wagstaff

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The Prime Time Players aren't funny.

But...they're worth millions of dollars, millions of dollars, millions of dollars!

Machismo Fan

The most annoying thing about Crazy Steve is that when you watch enough of him you realise there's actually a good wrestler under all the clown nonsense.

briany

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The Prime Time Players aren't funny.

How can they be "prime time" if they mainly wrestle on Superstars/Main Event?

Also, are the WWE going for a subtext of irony when the Ascension criticize Sandow and Axel for being copycats? One of these days the Ascension are going to get skewered by a smarter crowd with, "L-O-D WANNABE!".

Insect Overlord

I think they're doing it deliberately. No self-awareness, but in an annoyingly ironic (heelish) way.

Itssoeasy

Wrestlemania 17 was definetly the best wwf/WWE PPV ever made. It might even be the best ever pro wrestling PPV ever broadcast.

Omackeral

Actually just watched WM X-7 there. The E&C/Dudleys/Hardys match made me think of something though. A TLC match is literally no different rules wise to a ladder match. All you have to do is climb the ladder and get the belts. There are tables and chairs there too but nothing stopping you using them in a straight ladder match. I think you should have to use a chair on someone and drive them through a table before you're 'eligible' to retrieve the belt.

Ridley

It should be Royal Decree Barrett.

Riddle101

Omackeral wrote: »

Actually just watched WM X-7 there. The E&C/Dudleys/Hardys match made me think of something though. A TLC match is literally no different rules wise to a ladder match. All you have to do is climb the ladder and get the belts. There are tables and chairs there too but nothing stopping you using them in a straight ladder match. I think you should have to use a chair on someone and drive them through a table before you're 'eligible' to retrieve the belt.

They only created the TLC as a play on The Dudley Boyz, The Hardyz, and Edge & Christian. The Dudleys because they use tables, The Hardys because they're extreme and associated with ladders, and E&C used to do the Conchairto and were associated with chairs apparently. After those tag teams, ended there really was no real reason to keep them on. But I suppose it's like how Street Fights, Hardcore Matches, and Extreme Rules matches are all virtually the same match. They just give them different names.

Itssoeasy

As im watching wwf 2001 ppvs the world title belt was a gorgeous looking belt. My favourite wwf/WWE title ever IMO.

briany

Ridley wrote: »

It should be Royal Decree Barrett.

Get out of here, you, with your good, sensible ideas.

He's stopped with the bad news stuff anyway. Must have been because it was over (relatively).

---

It's clear that Sandow has no good ideas what to do next with his character, or creative has nothing for him. This Macho Man stuff would be OK, except Jay Lethal already did it, and did it far, far better. It's spectacular how badly they messed up the whole Mizdow angle, not even having a proper payoff at Wrestlemania.

Pentecost

In keeping with the thread title, for no particular reason other than I looked it up on Spotify.. "Cult of Personality" was a flipping great entrance tune. Shame Punk's momentum when he returned to that theme first counted for fook all in the end but that's for another thread.

ERG89

briany wrote: »

Get out of here, you, with your good, sensible ideas.

He's stopped with the bad news stuff anyway. Must have been because it was over (relatively).

Honestly its like they hate it when a talent comes up with something themselves to do. I am pretty sure Bad News Barrett was his own creation that I think I read was on the JBL & Cole show.
Don't know how many times I times & heard the best gimmicks jumped up versions of a talents personality which obviously means that the talent often creates it.

Stereomaniac

briany wrote: »

Bull Dempsey has a gut on him. He's muscle-fat, like Owens. They look like they could be those big strong, fat guys you see working for UPS if you sheared the hair/beards. Neck ridge city.

We have a whole imaginary life for Bull Dempsey planned out. We think he's going to end up singing in a Motorhead tribute band in the kind of bars you see in movies like Nebraska or the first Mad Max movie. I can't wait for the triple disc collection with the behind the scenes documentary and his greatest matches.

briany

ERG89 wrote: »

Honestly its like they hate it when a talent comes up with something themselves to do. I am pretty sure Bad News Barrett was his own creation that I think I read was on the JBL & Cole show.
Don't know how many times I times & heard the best gimmicks jumped up versions of a talents personality which obviously means that the talent often creates it.

I think most of us have heard the behind-the-scenes story of Zack Ryder and what happened to him after he got himself over with his web shorts. Instead of the WWE running with it, they decided to bury him. Yeah, maybe he'd never have made it to the main event because his character is a bit cartoony, but he could have been a solid mid-carder, at least as popular as Ziggler, who seems to be morphing into a bit of a cartoon character himself.



Until there's a real rival company who'll put pressure on WWE to rethink their approach, their performers will always be yoked, creatively.

Stereomaniac

Do you think that they intentionally held off on Daniel Bryan as well? I was always under the impression that they were keeping him busy at the end of 2013 for a prime billing at WrestleMania XXX. But then with the return of Batista I guess that put the kybosh on whatever plans COULD have been in store for him. Others probably know more about this here.

Palo Alto

I think that is exactly what happened yes.

leggo

I think Bryan was a wait-and-see project: half-intentional, half-circumstances. Originally I'd say they just kept him in the main event during late 2013 because he was a smarts favourite and they know they're playing to the hardcores and not much more during NFL season, so they give their favourites a run at the top to keep smarts happy (see also: Punk's title reign, Ambrose last year).

I doubt they intentionally planned to give him the heave for Mania but were trying things to see what worked and what didn't. If fans would've got into Batista/Orton, they'd have probably gone with it. But him not being in the Rumble was clearly designed to upset fans, for example. They were testing just how legit the Bryan phenomenon was. Would it flop when he wasn't in the Rumble match in perfectly explicable circumstances (i.e. he'd wrestled earlier that night) or would people revolt? They revolted and the rest is history.

It's like I always say: WWE aren't going to turn down the next SCSA-type draw. But they do have to test the water when fans start pulling for a certain guy to be pushed, because like it or not we ARE fickle. We like Ziggler, but we don't riot when he loses, we're actually pretty okay with him where he is in the card now. In the past couple months alone, people have gone crazy at certain times for Sandow, Fandango and Axel, yet when they got put back into their usual spots in the card, nobody really minded. If Sandow had been sky-rocketed to main event Extreme Rules after The Miz split, people probably would've balked.

They don't always get it right, but that isn't to say that there isn't method to their madness all the same. It's not as simple as Vince just being stubborn and not listening to fans. He's right to trust his instincts sometimes and overrule - or at least test out - cheers for the latest overnight sensation.

Stereomaniac

Yeah I think you've made a lot of valid points there, there's nothing in your post that I disagree with. I thought it was a bit crazy the sort of reaction that the Royal Rumble got last year when Daniel Bryan didn't appear at number 30. I wasn't expecting him to be in the match so surely the audience in the arena weren't expecting to see him as an entrant I would have thought. I could have accepted a Randy Orton vs. Batista main event, purely because I would have just been interested in seeing how they managed the hostile audiences. Anyway, I guess the "Universe" proved last year that if they voice their concern loudly enough, Vince will hear them. However, I think that it has left a legacy of false hope with some sections of the WWE audience. The majority of the time, I think what our opinions are on certain guys doesn't really matter. It has been said so many times here by myself and many others, whoever makes parents buy stuff wins.

Scavenger XIII

ERG89 wrote: »

I am pretty sure Bad News Barrett was his own creation that I think I read was on the JBL & Cole show.

If I remember right he credits Cody with the idea and they just ran with it.

Stereomaniac

I always thought that it would just be a temporary thing, as I did with Stardust, or Angle's baldness.

briany

Stereomaniac wrote: »

whoever makes parents buy stuff wins.

I think there's a bit more to it than that because it's not as if Roman Reigns was shifting mega merch before his push. The story Punk tells of his T shirt sales getting sabotaged when they started to outpace Cena tells of a company concerned with being very in control of who becomes popular. They don't seem to want anyone getting bigger than the company.

Stereomaniac

For all of their pride in having Dwayne Johnson turn back up from time to time, I'd say there's part of Vince that resents his success. Hulk Hogan is another one who is probably more recognised than the name of the company. So yeah, I guess you're right on that one actually.

briany

Stereomaniac wrote: »

For all of their pride in having Dwayne Johnson turn back up from time to time, I'd say there's part of Vince that resents his success. Hulk Hogan is another one who is probably more recognised than the name of the company. So yeah, I guess you're right on that one actually.

Hulk Hogan is probably the most overall recognisable name ever to come out of wrestling, I think, if you go from ages 8 to 88. Everybody knows who Hulk Hogan is, even if they never watched a wrestling match in their life. It's fashionable to talk a bit of s*it about him and his much attested to ego, but it's really hard to argue with that kind of success and charisma.

Reebrock

briany wrote: »

Hulk Hogan is probably the most overall recognisable name ever to come out of wrestling, I think, if you go from ages 8 to 88. Everybody knows who Hulk Hogan is, even if they never watched a wrestling match in their life. It's fashionable to talk a bit of s*it about him and his much attested to ego, but it's really hard to argue with that kind of success and charisma.

But nobody talking **** about the man talks **** about his star power back in the day.

diusmr8a504cvk

I think Ken Shamrock should go into the Hall of Fame, anyone else?

briany

Reebrock wrote: »

But nobody talking **** about the man talks **** about his star power back in the day.

No, but they oftentimes fail to acknowledge his star power in the present, as if he's a has-been diva. He's still appearing on the big cards as a special attraction and his name on the marquee puts bums in seats.

Taylor Gray Physician wrote: »

I think Ken Shamrock should go into the Hall of Fame, anyone else?

He's one of those people who could go in or not. The HoF is a bit of a lottery at this stage. People like Vader, Shamrock, Jim Cornette and the late Luna Vachon are people I think have put in a good shift with the WWE and no-one would object to their induction. Well, I think Cornette would object to his induction.

Just for the laugh, I'd like to Vince Russo get inducted. Lots of "Bro"s, "I'm telling you"s, and "I swear to GAWD"s on that speech. Bonus if it's on the same bill as a Cornette induction. They'd be at either end of the HoF WM line-up, that's for sure.

LeeJM

Apologies in advance as I havnt thought in advance of how to structure all my points properly but they do all tie together for a conclusion

So today I was just thinking about WrestleMania next year and WWE wanting to fill Cowboy Stadium (Jerrys Place as its called on Place to be Nation) and what they are gonna need to do to accomplish that. And an appearance by somebody on Raw is what has got me thinking about it.

Between now and Summerslam I think all of Balor, Owens and Zayn (injury permitting) will be called up and put over in a big way. I think the higher ups realise things are stale and new stars are desperately needed. Neville without having a major push is now already established and more credible than most of the midcard. If Vince gets behind any of the 3 mentioned previously they are gonna be in top level feuds come late summer/early autumn.

The tag division also seems to have a new focus and has Id say 4 well established and over teams (Kidd/Cesaro, New Day, Lucha Dragons and Harper/Rowan) and another 3 less over teams (Ascension, Matadors and PTP) and the Usos will return by the autumn too. Call up the Vaudvillians and maybe even Dawson & Wilder and Blake & Murphy and thats a hell of a tag division.

At the top end of the card as much as ppl complain there really is endless opportunities for fresh match ups and rivalries between now and WM. Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Wyatt, Sheamus, Barrett, Rusev are what Id consider the top 10 guys right now and theres a tonne of things that can be done between them and thats leaving out Jericho, Kane, Ryback, Big Show, Ziggler and any of the top NXT guys.

The womens division is also getting quite competitive and could receive quite the makeover in the next few months. I think Charlotte and Sasha are both on their way to the main roster. Eva Marie is training seriously and could be a player. Paige is still a baby in main roster terms. Lita and Trish defo have another match in them and I do think we'll see them at Mania.

And now to get to my main point. I think WWE know that as things stand now they aint filling that stadium. So between now and Summerslam NxT is gonna be gutted of any established talent like the ones I have mentioned and the main roster is gonna be shaken up. And from Summerslam on there is gonna be a steady story that builds to WresteMania. I think Vince and HHH are gonna have their plans and know what the big stories are for Mania and they know they are gonna need good tv between SS and WM to fill that place. Yes they will have big names from the past in their pockets but I also think they know they need those big names to put over the stars of now.

TL:DR things aren't as bad as they seem and I think this is gonna be a great year for WWE.

leggo

People have to temper their expectations with how quickly Balor etc will rise. Since Brock walked out in 2004, WWE don't skyrocket anyone anymore. They'll give them the initial push but then de-push them to see how they handle it while creative has nothing for them. So I wouldn't imagine any of them will win the Rumble or be in a headline match or anything. Even think of how The Shield were in a generic 6-man to open their first Mania, and they were established 'sure things' by then. The good news is that it means Mania's undercard will likely have some serious depth and competition for spots.

LeeJM

Oh yea Im not saying they'll be headlining Mania or even the Rumble. At best a possible multiman title match at TLC for one of them if things go extremely well.

Moneymaker

So WWE has actually been a very solid product lately.

We have mid card feuds, storylines and the mid card titles matter now.

Main event scene has been good.

Tag team scene has been awesome lately.

Match quality is almost always good.

Nxt stars being presented strongly and being pushed effectively(Ascension being the exception).

Product still not perfect but they've definitely improved lately imo.

Jimmy Jacobs having an influence maybe?