NZ v France series thread

Swiwi

8 June, Auckland, 0835 (followed by Lions v Reds)
15 June, Christchurch, 0835 (followed by Lions v Tahs)
22 June, New Plymouth, 0835 (followed by Lions v Aussie)

NZ preview

FORWARDS

• LH props: Wyatt Crockett (Canterbury), Ben Franks (Hawkes Bay), Tony Woodcock (North Harbour)
• Hookers: Dane Coles (Wellington), Andrew Hore (Taranaki), Keven Mealamu (Auckland)
• TH props: Ben Afeaki (North Harbour), Owen Franks (Canterbury)
• Locks: Brodie Retallick (Bay of Plenty), Luke Romano (Canterbury), Jeremy Thrush (Wellington), Sam Whitelock (Canterbury)
• Backrows: Sam Cane (Bay of Plenty), Steven Luatua (Auckland), Liam Messam (Waikato), Kieran Read (Canterbury), Victor Vito (Wellington), Matt Todd (Canterbury)

BACKS

• Halfbacks: Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Waikato), Aaron Smith (Manawatu), Piri Weepu (Auckland), Beauden Barrett (Taranaki), Daniel Carter (Canterbury), Aaron Cruden (Manawatu)
• Centres: Ma'a Nonu (Wellington), Rene Ranger (Northland), Francis Saili (North Harbour), Conrad Smith (Wellington)
• Wingers: Charles Piutau (Auckland), Julian Savea (Wellington)
• Fullbacks: Israel Dagg (Hawkes Bay), Ben Smith (Otago)

INJURED: Charlie Faumauina, Dominic Bird, Cory Jane

Steve Hansen has chosen a fairly predictable side, blending youth & experience, as he continues to rejuvenate the team he inherited from Graham Henry. There is pressure on Woodcock & Hore, in particular, to show that they shouldn't be put out to pasture. Dane Coles has been chosen as the 3rd hooker, but I don't rate him, and I reckon some of the up & coming hookers will displace him in the next 18 months. The uncapped Ben Afeaki is an exciting prospect.

The locks pick themselves, while in the loosies, Sam Cane has a chance to show he's the Real McCaw. Steven Luatua will be looking to put pressure on Messam & Vito, he's been one of the finds of the season, although has slightly plateaued with the Blues' loss of form in recent weeks.

Aaron Smith can't even make the Highlanders starting line-up, but has been retained, along with Tawera Kerr-Barlow who was very ordinary on the end of year tour. A missed opportunity to blood the exciting TJ Perenara.

Aaron Cruden has arguably been in better form than Dan, while in the midfield Nonu has had a forgettable season with the Highlanders. Nonu & Smith will start the 1st test, but Ranger in particular will be hoping to impress - whether he is actually off to Montpellier or not is a closely guarded secret that even the Vatican would be proud of.

Finally, for me the most interesting selection will be whether Ben Smith is rewarded for his stellar SXV season with a start at 15 ahead of Israel Dagg, who seems to be in cruise mode this season.


French preview (with thanks to Thomond2006, cheers mate!)

FORWARDS

• LH Props: Eddy Ben Arous (Racing-Métro), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Thomas Domingo (Clermont),
• Hookers: Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro),
• TH Props: Luc Ducalcon (Clermont), Daniel Kotze (Clermont), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan),
• Locks: Alexandre Flanquart (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Christophe Samson (Castres), Sébastien Vahaamahina (Perpignan),
• Backrows: Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, cap.), Bernard Le Roux (Racing-Métro), Antonie Claassen (Castres), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse).

BACKS

• Halfbacks: Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Jean-Marc Doussain (Toulouse), Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), Camille Lopez (Bordeaux-Bègles), Rémi Talès (Castres),
• Centres: Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Gael Fickou (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Maxime Mermoz (Toulon),
• Wingers: Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Noa Nakaitaci (Clermont), Marc Andreu (Castres), Adrien Planté (Perpignan),
• Fullbacks: Brice Dulin (Castres), Yoann Huget (Touloluse).

INJURED: Pascal Papé (Stade Francais), Morgan Parra (Clermont), Alexis Palisson (Toulon), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse)

Following a poor Six Nations, nobody would give France much of a chance going down to New Zealand for three tests. However France has been New Zealand's bogey team in recent years, and with nothing to lose they are a dangerous proposition. Top 14 champions' Castres' form has been recognised with Remi Tales, Marc Andreu and Brice Dulin joining their teammates Antoine Claassen and Christophe Samson in the panel.

A main talking point of the squad is the presence of non-French players who have earned the right to play for France through residency. South Africans Daniel Kotze and Bernard Le Roux and Fijian Noa Nakaitaci have all played in France for three years which allows them to qualify for the national team, similar to Richardt Strauss and Ireland. This is a trend that should continue into the future, as France's foreign player restrictions only dictate that a proportion of a team's squad must have been developed through a French academy system, making no reference to a nationality. Therefore French clubs can sign young foreign players that in a few years will count as French produced, some of those players may then decide to declare for France rather than their country of birth. For a player like Nakaitaci, playing for France would be more lucrative than playing for Fiji.

One major issue for Phillipe Saint-Andre to address is at flyhalf, a position that has a nagging issue for years. Montpellier's Francois Trinh-Duc has been dropped and Camille Lopez and Remi Tales have been called up. Lopez (24) was Bordeaux's key player in their successful fight against relegation and will be at Perpignan next year, Tales (29) steered Castres to a first Top14 title in twenty years. Both are untested at international level but will get their chance on this tour and Saint-Andre will be desperate for one or both players to display ability at international level, as Freddy Michalak is clearly not the answer. Both Doussain and Michalak can play 9 & 10, which may allow Saint-Andre to put two outside backs on the bench.

My player to watch out for in this French squad is Brice Dulin. The 23 year old fullback was France's first choice in last year's autumn series but missed the Six Nations through injury. He seems to possess all the qualities of a good fullback: pace, a big boot and aerial prowess. Since returning from injury he has been in excellent form and impressed in the Top14 final. While he lacks the height and bulk of Yoann Huget, he is more exciting in attack.

Providing Saint-Andre selects well, something he did not do in the Six Nations, France are capable of putting it up to anyone with the talent they have. If they lack cohesiveness and a game plan then a clinical team like New Zealand will cut them apart. Being their usual unknown quantity, if France can start one of the tests well then their natural swagger will manifest itself and all bets will be off!

Possible French 23:
Domingo, Szarzewski, Mas, Maestri, Samson, Dusautoir, Ouedraogo, Picamoles;
Machenaud, Tales, Médard, Fofana, Bastareaud, Huget, Dulin

Bench: Kayser, Débaty, Ducalcon, Vahaamahina, Claassen, Michalak, Nakaitaci, Andreu

GiftofGab

Cant wait....looking forward to seeing the all blacks back in action

fishook

great series, france 1 of a few that have the power to beat the new zealand.

anyone know when the S15 is over?

Swiwi

Pour nos amis français du site

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf0ggn_rugby-essai-du-bout-du-monde-nz-fra_webcam#.UatnjmT71m1

It just sounds better in French

TheGoldenAges

Looking forward to the series, I expect France to step up and take the AB's on up front. It will also be interesting to see how they get on without McCaw.

The most mouthwatering clash will be Fofana up against Conrad Smith though.

Swiwi

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Looking forward to the series, I expect France to step up and take the AB's on up front. It will also be interesting to see how they get on without McCaw.

The most mouthwatering clash will be Fofana up against Conrad Smith though.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Fofana (not unusual in this regard, of course) - he's probably the world's top 12 at the moment, and could certainly cement that with a big display against Nonu.

I just hope the real France turns up, but they usually do when they come to NZ.

Judgement Day

Some of the indifferent performances by the NZ S15 teams this season, plus the dip in form of Dan Carter and Israel Dagg, the absence of Richie McCaw, leaves me a little concerned but then I always am. Relieved when the boys win, and gutted when they lose, I'm hoping France will have their asses handed to them and normal service will resume.

As an aside, it's good to see Piri Weepu has been kept for the sake of the Haka anyway.

thomond2006

Should Toulon and Castres players be rested for the first test as hinted, in that case PSA would be left with:

FORWARDS
LH Props: Eddy Ben Arous (Racing-Métro), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Thomas Domingo (Clermont),
Hookers: Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro),
TH Props: Luc Ducalcon (Clermont), Daniel Kotze (Clermont), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan),
Locks: Alexandre Flanquart (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Sébastien Vahaamahina (Perpignan),
Backrows: Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, cap.), Bernard Le Roux (Racing-Métro), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse).

BACKS
Halfbacks: Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Jean-Marc Doussain (Toulouse), Camille Lopez (Bordeaux-Bègles),
Centres: Gael Fickou (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse),
Wingers: Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Noa Nakaitaci (Clermont), Adrien Planté (Perpignan),
Fullbacks: Yoann Huget (Touloluse).

The pack is relatively unaffected but there's a lot of absentees in the backs. It would be a chance for Camille Lopez to nail down the 10 jersey with Michalak and Tales not selected.

M three

Swiwi wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Fofana (not unusual in this regard, of course) - he's probably the world's top 12 at the moment, and could certainly cement that with a big display against Nonu.

I just hope the real France turns up, but they usually do when they come to NZ.

As class as forfana is, he's not just as good as nonu, that man is a machine

19543261

M three wrote: »

As class as forfana is, he's not just as good as nonu, that man is a machine

You're spot on! Having been born so big most have taken some amount of sk- oh wait.

GiftofGab

M three wrote: »

As class as forfana is, he's not just as good as nonu, that man is a machine

Have you watched Nonu lately. He is a shadow of his former self. He hasn't shown any glimpse of form all season. I would argue that Ranger should be there in front of him.

That all blacks team doesn't look as strong as it had in recent years. Not too many stand out players this year compared to other years.

The outside backs are nowhere near the greats the all blacks have produced in recent years. Guys such as Savea haven't performed to their potential when he first set on the scene. Dagg has occasionaly been dropped for the crusaders. Piutau has been playing well but needs more tries.

If France can shake off their dismal 6 nations and show the form they are capable off, they will give the all blacks a real run for their money. I would expect France to win the scrum battle. Get their line outs in order and it'll be a real contest.

But you never know this is the all blacks we're talking about here. Beating the all blacks in their own back yard is a big ask for anyone.

Swiwi

GiftofGab wrote: »

Have you watched Nonu lately. He is a shadow of his former self. He hasn't shown any glimpse of form all season. I would argue that Ranger should be there in front of him.

That all blacks team doesn't look as strong as it had in recent years. Not too many stand out players this year compared to other years.

The outside backs are nowhere near the greats the all blacks have produced in recent years. Guys such as Savea haven't performed to their potential when he first set on the scene. Dagg has occasionaly been dropped for the crusaders. Piutau has been playing well but needs more tries.

If France can shake off their dismal 6 nations and show the form they are capable off, they will give the all blacks a real run for their money. I would expect France to win the scrum battle. Get their line outs in order and it'll be a real contest.

But you never know this is the all blacks we're talking about here. Beating the all blacks in their own back yard is a big ask for anyone.

I'm reserving judgement until after Saturday. Sometimes a star team is better than a team of stars, but I agree that there is no "Christian Cullen" in this team. I'm not worried about the AB front row, France always talk themselves up in this regard, but I struggle to think of a dominant French scrumming performance against the AB in recent years.

I look forward to seeing how some of the new French players that I know little about perform. Talès, Lopez etc.

Swiwi

I guess I should nail my colours to the mast, and choose my first test XV. Always intriguing to see how one goes.

From 15-1: BSMith, Piutau, CSmith, Nonu, Savea, Carter, Weepu, Read, Cane, Messam, Retallick, Romano, OFranks, Mealamu, BFranks

Reserves: Ranger, Cruden, ASmith, Vito, Thrush, Afeaki, Hore, Woodcock

No doubt Dagg will be in the 23, but not on merit.

Judgement Day

Both Dan Carter and Piri Weepu are doubtful for the 1st Test due to injury.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10888119

the baby bull elephant

GiftofGab wrote: »

Have you watched Nonu lately. He is a shadow of his former self. He hasn't shown any glimpse of form all season. I would argue that Ranger should be there in front of him.

That all blacks team doesn't look as strong as it had in recent years. Not too many stand out players this year compared to other years.

The outside backs are nowhere near the greats the all blacks have produced in recent years. Guys such as Savea haven't performed to their potential when he first set on the scene. Dagg has occasionaly been dropped for the crusaders. Piutau has been playing well but needs more tries.

If France can shake off their dismal 6 nations and show the form they are capable off, they will give the all blacks a real run for their money. I would expect France to win the scrum battle. Get their line outs in order and it'll be a real contest.

But you never know this is the all blacks we're talking about here. Beating the all blacks in their own back yard is a big ask for anyone.

Nonu always seems to do this though play badly in Super Rugby and up it for the tests, it's the same with Dagg.

Also New Zealand have Ben Smith and therefore are unstoppable.

Having said that pretty sure the last time N.Z. didn't have Carter and McCaw against France was in 09...

Seanbass

does anyone know what channel the tests are being shown on?

the baby bull elephant

Seanbass wrote: »

does anyone know what channel the tests are being shown on?

They're on Sky Sports not sure which exact channel though.

Seanbass

oh really? fantastic, I thought they'd be on setanta or something,
thanks.

Swiwi

Well, mes amis francais will be happy to know DC is highly unlikely to play this week. Ditto for Weepu & Woodcock. But apparently Ben Smith is actually starting. Shock! Horror! It looks as if it'll be on the wing, but still it's better than nothing. Dagg you've been warned!

BoarHunter

From the latest training session according to lequipe.fr the starting XV should look like this :

Huget ; Planté, Fritz, Fofana, Médard ; (o) Lopez, (m) Machenaud ; Dusautoir, Picamoles, Ouedraogo ; Maestri, Vahaamahina ; Ducalcon, Szarzewski, Domingo.

Swiwi

BoarHunter wrote: »

From the latest training session according to lequipe.fr the starting XV should look like this :

Huget ; Planté, Fritz, Fofana, Médard ; (o) Lopez, (m) Machenaud ; Dusautoir, Picamoles, Ouedraogo ; Maestri, Vahaamahina ; Ducalcon, Szarzewski, Domingo.

Would you be happy with that BoarHunter?

thomond2006

Swiwi wrote: »

Would you be happy with that BoarHunter?

Without the Toulon and Castres players there's little to decide in that lineup!

Swiwi

NZ team named:

ALL BLACKS: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett. Reserves: Keven Mealamu Ben Afeaki, Ben Franks, Jeremy Thrush, Victor Vito, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Rene Ranger

It's entirely predictable except Dane Coles at hooker. That's a bolter, and unexpected. He's only just back from injury, and I really am surprised. Well, Dane, here's your chance to make me eat my words! Disappointed Ben Smith on the wing, but I guess Dagg is the incumbent. Wyatt Crockett better take his chance, because Ben Franks has been in fine fettle with the Canes.

AB coach Hansen

"We all know how the French can play. The only predictable thing about them is their unpredictability so we will have to be ready for whatever they throw at us."

Swan Curry

Swiwi wrote: »

NZ team named:

ALL BLACKS: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett. Reserves: Keven Mealamu Ben Afeaki, Ben Franks, Jeremy Thrush, Victor Vito, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Rene Ranger

It's entirely predictable except Dane Coles at hooker. That's a bolter, and unexpected. He's only just back from injury, and I really am surprised. Well, Dane, here's your chance to make me eat my words! Disappointed Ben Smith on the wing, but I guess Dagg is the incumbent. Wyatt Crockett better take his chance, because Ben Franks has been in fine fettle with the Canes.

AB coach Hansen

"We all know how the French can play. The only predictable thing about them is their unpredictability so we will have to be ready for whatever they throw at us."

Are there any players challenging Nonu for 12?I've been told he hasn't been playing that well for the Highlanders this year.

Swiwi

Swan Curry wrote: »

Are there any players challenging Nonu for 12?I've been told he hasn't been playing that well for the Highlanders this year.

The other 12 in the squad is the Blues' Francis Saili. But he's pretty raw and untested. 12 is a problem for NZ. I think Tamati Ellison would have been selected, but after returning to NZ from Japan because the rugby "was too easy", he's now returning to Japan because "the rugby is easier". Maybe Rene Ranger could get a run there. Maybe SBW might come back from Japan. There's also a guy called Bundee Aki with the Chiefs who looks promising for the future, but at the moment 12 is definitely a weak spot for NZ. In saying that, Nonu will probably come good, as he's done for the last couple of years after terrible SXV form.

BoarHunter

Swiwi wrote: »

Would you be happy with that BoarHunter?

This team has now been confirmed. Yes i think it's a good combination. Will be a big test for ducalcon. For the rest it's solid. It all depends if they click as a team because the blacks have a system in place no matter the players.

Swiwi

BoarHunter wrote: »

This team has now been confirmed. Yes i think it's a good combination. Will be a big test for ducalcon. For the rest it's solid. It all depends if they click as a team because the blacks have a system in place no matter the players.

Dan Carter is out for the 2nd test as well, so that's a help for you guys. I'm looking pretty forward to this weekend. Not sure whether to get my boss to start late morning so I can see the ABs live, or an early start, so I can catch the Reds v Lions live. Luckily with modern technology, I'll still be a able to watch both games at some stage

thomond2006

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo

Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Daniel Kotze, 19 Akexandre Flanquart, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Jean-Marc Doussain, 22 Frederic Michalak, 23 Maxime Mermoz

duckysauce

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8759227,00.html

Barnes is reffing is there still a bounty on his head in NZ ?

Swiwi

duckysauce wrote: »

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8759227,00.html

Barnes is reffing is there still a bounty on his head in NZ ?

I hate to say it, but NZ are poor losers at times. If France are leading, I expect a few idiots in the crowd will be firing up. I don't actually mind him too much as a ref, but I do think he somewhat freezes around reffing the tackle ball/ruck area in big matches.

I'd rather Barnes than Clancey or Poite.

GiftofGab

Carter mentioned on twitter that he is out of first test with a broken hand. Cruden is still a valuable replacement.

Edit: woops I'm extremely late on the carter news.

BoarHunter

Swiwi wrote: »

I hate to say it, but NZ are poor losers at times. If France are leading, I expect a few idiots in the crowd will be firing up. I don't actually mind him too much as a ref, but I do think he somewhat freezes around reffing the tackle ball/ruck area in big matches.

I'd rather Barnes than Clancey or Poite.

Or Joubert :-D

Swiwi

BoarHunter wrote: »

Or Joubert :-D

I'm no Joubert fan. His reffing has gone backwards, starting with the RWC final. I've said it before, I'll take Nigel Owens from the NH, also your own Jérôme Garcès is OK, and Glen Jackson from the SH, I also like the SA ref Jaco Peyper.

Look, I was happy to win the RWC - of course - and it would have been a travesty if France won, given your form in the pool stages, and your easy run to the final, but Joubert did somewhat do a Barnes in terms of freezing in the 2nd half.

Good luck for Saturday BTW!, traditionally NZ start the season slowly, so you have a good chance, even if it is Fortress Eden as the venue.

Swiwi

Rugbyheaven NZ previews 3 key match-ups

Sam Cane v Thierry Dusautoir

The All Blacks young openside faces the most stern test of his brief international career. Dusautoir may be 31, but the Dark Destroyer is far from finished and refreshed after an injury break.

The Toulouse tackling machine also has a knack of producing his best rugby against the All Blacks and is part of a strong loose trio including the pace of blindside Fulgence Ouedraogo and the strength of No 8 Louis Picamoles.

Cane has been unconvincing through Super Rugby and now needs to prove he is Richie McCaw's obvious successor. A quick, open game would suit Cane's style with support play one of his strengths.

Aaron Cruden v Camille Lopez

Cruden is maturing into a fine player and with front foot ball the Chiefs pivot's running game is his strength. He can skirt wide and exploit opponent's outside backs, shoot through on the inside and off load in contact.

He faces a young man on the rise in Lopez, who has sparkled this season for Bordeaux. The 24-year-old's great strength is his cultured left boot. Not only can he kick goals prolifically, but Lopez's accuracy with high, chip and cross kicks is exceptional.

He can run a bit too and at 98kg has the strength to bust tackles when he wants to. His performance against Toulon this season was nothing short of incredible.

Ma'a Nonu v Wesley Fofana

If there is one player in the French side capable of tearing teams to shred it is the Clermont second five eighth. Known in France as 'Le Guépard' (The Cheetah) for his pace, Fofana could provide a real test of the All Blacks' backs defence if he gets some quality ball. He's also got the pace to put real pressure on attacking kicks.

He's up against Nonu, a player who has looked sluggish through most of the Super Rugby season. The All Blacks will be looking to Nonu to step up and stay fit because there is no specialist second five-eighth cover in their match day squad.

TheGoldenAges

Hope France give a good account of themselves at least. At least Saint-André is playing Fofana in his natural position rather than the wing and seems to have cleared out those who woefully didn't perform in the Six Nations.

Still think New Zealand will win especially without the Top 14 contingent but it'll be a tight one alright

Swiwi

From the NZ Herald: 5 famous French-NZ clashes (no prizes for guessing 2 of the French victories)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10889000

I'd add 1986 in Nantes when Wayne "Buck" Shelford had his nuts ripped off (or just about anyway).

Swiwi

Swiwi's Confession

Swiwi: Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.
Priest: What is it, my son?
Swiwi: (averts gaze) When faced with the choice, I have chosen to go into work early tomorrow, in order to watch the Lions v Reds live. (holds back tears) I will not be able to watch the ABs play at 8.30am.
Priest: Let's just keep this between ourselves, shall we.
Swiwi: Thank you, Father, I could not face the shame if it were to come out.

duckysauce

Swiwi wrote: »

Swiwi's Confession

Swiwi: Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.
Priest: What is it, my son?
Swiwi: (averts gaze) When faced with the choice, I have chosen to go into work early tomorrow, in order to watch the Lions v Reds live. (holds back tears) I will not be able to watch the ABs play at 8.30am.
Priest: Let's just keep this between ourselves, shall we.
Swiwi: Thank you, Father, I could not face the shame if it were to come out.

agggghh make it a proper confession -- call in sick tomorrow nice brekkie in the morning, then beer's for the Lions , then confession and everything will be alright .

thomond2006

Eden Park is sold out for this one.

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Ben Afeaki, 19 Jeremy Thrush, 20 Victor Vito, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Rene Ranger.

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.

Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Daniel Kotze, 19 Akexandre Flanquart, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Jean-Marc Doussain, 22 Frederic Michalak, 23 Maxime Mermoz.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Eden Park is sold out for this one.

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Ben Afeaki, 19 Jeremy Thrush, 20 Victor Vito, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Rene Ranger.

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.

Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Daniel Kotze, 19 Akexandre Flanquart, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Jean-Marc Doussain, 22 Frederic Michalak, 23 Maxime Mermoz.

I'd be worried about NZ running up a cricket score here tbh.

matthew8

thomond2006 wrote: »

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.

I hope Lopez is very good. Haven't seen any of Bordeaux this year so a bit of an unknown. I reckon France put up a very good fight, should have the advantage in the front and back row, 9 and 12, but NZ could have a very sizable advantage elsewhere. Good luck to the 84 kg Plante dealing with 108 kg Savea.

From what I've read France is the one country the NZ rugby public doesn't either look down on or hold in contempt for their style of play, don't see a thrashing really.

danthefan

Sadly I think France are going to be hammered. Hope I'm wrong though.

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

I'd be worried about NZ running up a cricket score here tbh.

danthefan wrote: »

Sadly I think France are going to be hammered. Hope I'm wrong though.

Wow, you guys are optimistic about NZ's chances. Traditionally the ABs start the season slow enough, and there will be a few unfamiliar faces to NZ audiences - I've never seen the new flyhalf Lopez play for example.

France were rubbish in the 6N, but they aren't a rubbish side. NZ is missing Carter & McCaw, Dagg/Nonu/ASmith have all had average SXV seasons, and the tight 5 is pretty inexperienced, Franks excepted. The main asset for NZ is Kieran Read, I'd predict a big game leading from the front as captain.

It really depends what mindset the French bring to the game, if they can't be bothered, then it could be fairly hefty, but if PSA can somehow get the French to care, then I could see this being quite close. They'll need to tackle Savea though, he was in savage form earlier in the SXV, although lost a bit of steam with his domestic issues.

I'd pick NZ by 10-15, but with France anything is possible of course.

matthew8

Swiwi I have hardly watched the NZ clubs at all this year, not prepared to wake up at 8am, is it just me or should France have a sizable advantage upfront? I'd almost say I'd only start Messam and Retallick for France, Franks and Read slightly behind.

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

I hope Lopez is very good. Haven't seen any of Bordeaux this year so a bit of an unknown. I reckon France put up a very good fight, should have the advantage in the front and back row, 9 and 12, but NZ could have a very sizable advantage elsewhere. Good luck to the 84 kg Plante dealing with 108 kg Savea.

From what I've read France is the one country the NZ rugby public doesn't either look down on or hold in contempt for their style of play, don't see a thrashing really.

Ah, you're being harsh. We don't have much time for the SA style of play, that I'll give you, and of course you'll struggle to find much love for England, but we admire some of the Aussie stars in recent years (Eales, Horan, Larkham et al), have a soft spot for the Celtic Nations, always support our Pacific Brothers, and like the Latin flair of France & Argentina.

No-one follows domestic French rugby in NZ, except to count how many ex-ABs are plying their trade there, so they are always a bit novel too.

matthew8

Swiwi wrote: »

Ah, you're being harsh. We don't have much time for the SA style of play, that I'll give you, and of course you'll struggle to find much love for England, but we admire some of the Aussie stars in recent years (Eales, Horan, Larkham et al), have a soft spot for the Celtic Nations, always support our Pacific Brothers, and like the Latin flair of France & Argentina.

No-one follows domestic French rugby in NZ, except to count how many ex-ABs are plying their trade there, so they are always a bit novel too.

I don't know, maybe it's because I read the super rugby power rankings a bit much, but it always seems to me like NZ writers take the piss out of Australia, dislike England and SA, and (rightly so considering how they play against NZ) don't seem to take most other nations too seriously as threats, however I've never heard a bad word from a New Zealander about the French national team.

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

Swiwi I have hardly watched the NZ clubs at all this year, not prepared to wake up at 8am, is it just me or should France have a sizable advantage upfront? I'd almost say I'd only start Messam and Retallick for France, Franks and Read slightly behind.

Here's my assessment: Crockett is generally a decent prop, and certainly good round the field, but he is a bit penalty-prone at scrum-time, I don't know much about Ducalcon his French opponent. Dane Coles I am really unsure about, it's his big chance tomorrow. I don't rate Szarzeski at all, so maybe evens there. Both Franks & Domingo are very good, cancel each other out.

In the 2nd row, the injury to Whitelock is unfortunate, he has been outstanding in recent weeks for the Crusaders, maybe the best lock in the SXV, so that's a blow. Retallick & Romano are able replacements, I know little about the French locks.

In the backrow, I think it's fairly even, maybe Dusautoir's getting on a tad, and I do really rate Read, it's a big chance for Cane.

NZ likes to get quick ruck ball, whereas rugby in France is more about scrummaging/mauling etc, so I would worry about French ability to keep up with the speed of NZ's game.

NZ's pack went pretty well last year, outmuscled v SA in Dunedin, and the 'mare v the English at Twickenham, France was good in the first half v England.

Don't know what else to say, but it'll be interesting.

TheGoldenAges

Swiwi wrote: »

Wow, you guys are optimistic about NZ's chances. Traditionally the ABs start the season slow enough, and there will be a few unfamiliar faces to NZ audiences - I've never seen the new flyhalf Lopez play for example.

France were rubbish in the 6N, but they aren't a rubbish side. NZ is missing Carter & McCaw, Dagg/Nonu/ASmith have all had average SXV seasons, and the tight 5 is pretty inexperienced, Franks excepted. The main asset for NZ is Kieran Read, I'd predict a big game leading from the front as captain.

It really depends what mindset the French bring to the game, if they can't be bothered, then it could be fairly hefty, but if PSA can somehow get the French to care, then I could see this being quite close. They'll need to tackle Savea though, he was in savage form earlier in the SXV, although lost a bit of steam with his domestic issues.

I'd pick NZ by 10-15, but with France anything is possible of course.

I think the first test last year when NZ were supposedly "rusty" thought us Irish fans a lesson

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

I don't know, maybe it's because I read the super rugby power rankings a bit much, but it always seems to me like NZ writers take the piss out of Australia, dislike England and SA, and (rightly so considering how they play against NZ) don't seem to take most other nations too seriously as threats, however I've never heard a bad word from a New Zealander about the French national team.

Well there's always the friendly banter with Aussie, and yes we hate 10-man rugby (sometimes to our detriment, eg 2007), which is how the SA & English style of game is viewed.

I guess France flys under the radar because most Kiwis can't speak French, so wouldn't follow the Francophone media, and we just see them as charming guests, with an ability to score crazy tries out of nothing, and produce shock RWC results.

They also had some real hardmen in the past, prior to citing commissioner etc, and when rucking was still legal, so there's been some great battles down the years. I remember a guy called Eric Champ, he was one mean b*st*rd of a rugby player, wouldn't have survived 2 weeks with the video refs in the modern game.

totallegend

Swiwi wrote: »

Here's my assessment: Crockett is generally a decent prop, and certainly good round the field, but he is a bit penalty-prone at scrum-time, I don't know much about Ducalcon his French opponent. Dane Coles I am really unsure about, it's his big chance tomorrow. I don't rate Szarzeski at all, so maybe evens there. Both Franks & Domingo are very good, cancel each other out.

In the 2nd row, the injury to Whitelock is unfortunate, he has been outstanding in recent weeks for the Crusaders, maybe the best lock in the SXV, so that's a blow. Retallick & Romano are able replacements, I know little about the French locks.

Ducalcon is decent, not much more than that, never really been a destructive scrummager but he's OK.

If someone told me that the French locks were the heaviest second-row pairing in history, I'd believe him. They are both monstrous men so France won't be lacking ballast in the row and with Domingo at LH, they might get the edge in the tight.

The back row clash should be fascinating. Ouedraogo is a really good player, hard as nails but quite skilful too, Dusautoir should be well known to the NZers and Picamoles has been in great form this year.

It's in the backs that NZ have the real edge IMO. Medard and Fritz are just not the players they were, I'm not sure if Huget has really transferred his club form to internationals and I don't know too much about Plante to be honest.

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

Ducalcon is decent, not much more than that, never really been a destructive scrummager but he's OK.

If someone told me that the French locks were the heaviest second-row pairing in history, I'd believe him. They are both monstrous men so France won't be lacking ballast in the row and with Domingo at LH, they might get the edge in the tight.

The back row clash should be fascinating. Ouedraogo is a really good player, hard as nails but quite skilful too, Dusautoir should be well known to the NZers and Picamoles has been in great form this year.

It's in the backs that NZ have the real edge IMO. Medard and Fritz are just not the players they were, I'm not sure if Huget has really transferred his club form to internationals and I don't know too much about Plante to be honest.

Tackling out of his skin in 2007, and the scrumhalf Elissalde running across the width of the pitch and into touch are my French memories of that game.

He definitely has respect in NZ, even if the commentator did call him Thierry Henry at the RWC final post-match comments.

NZ always has good backs, but Dagg better front up. I guess Rene Ranger has genuine X-factor on the bench, one to throw in against a tiring defence.