Debt Collectors

Dr.Funke

Hi,

I cancelled my Sky subscription by email, as advised on their site, a number of months ago. In the email I stated I was giving 30 days notice as required.

They got back on to me saying they can't accept the email as cancellation and I need to ring them on some 0818 number. I got back on to them and let them know I can't call 0818 numbers.

I missed a call from a member of their team a week later and he sent me an email asking me a suitable time for him to call, which I replied and he said he'd contact me in 3 days.

I never received a call from him as promised and cancelled my direct debit as I felt they were messing around trying to keep me longer and as far as I was concerned I gave proper notice.

They deactivated my viewing card on the day I had requested so I presumed everything was ok and they had decided my notice was ok.

Now months later, I received a letter on Wednesday from Sky stating I owe them €28 and if I don't pay it soon they will send it on to a debt collector and this will affect my credit rating.

I sent them an email back stating I don't owe them any money and my account was paid up in full when I cancelled and I would not be entertaining any more responses from them or a debt collector.

The next day I missed a call from an English number and got a voicemail and text to contact them with a reference number, after a quick Google I found out this is a debt collector. I don't "owe" anyone else money so I presume it's the Sky "debt".

Apologies for the long post, just wanted to give all the info.

Does anyone know how I should proceed with this? Should I just ignore them?

From what I've read they can't actually damage my credit rating unless it goes to court?

Of course I could pay the €28, but it's the principal of it that makes me not want to. I gave my notice, was paid up in full and don't appreciate their empty threats.

If I actually owed money I'd of course pay it.

Thanks

flutered

the debt collection agency will threaten court action, this is something that they cannot do, so tell them that your solicitor will be glad to engage with them in court, no also expect during your fone calls for them to fire question after question at you, away worse that if you had broken the official secrets act, just hang up, they will then ring back straight away, tell them unless they adress you in a civilised manner that you will change fone numbers, i am speaking from experience.

Dr.Funke

flutered wrote: »

the debt collection agency will threaten court action, this is something that they cannot do, so tell them that your solicitor will be glad to engage with them in court, no also expect during your fone calls for them to fire question after question at you, away worse that if you had broken the official secrets act, just hang up, they will then ring back straight away, tell them unless they adress you in a civilised manner that you will change fone numbers, i am speaking from experience.

Thanks for the reply.

Just out of curiosity why can't they take me to court?

How long will they pursue this? I have email confirmation that my notice was received by Sky and also a screenshot of their site listing email as an acceptable form of notice.

I find it amazing that Sky (or any company) can sell a debt and let a third party contact you without proving there is indeed a debt owed.

Shane-KornSpace

Dr.Funke wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Just out of curiosity why can't they take me to court?

How long will they pursue this? I have email confirmation that my notice was received by Sky and also a screenshot of their site listing email as an acceptable form of notice.

I find it amazing that Sky (or any company) can sell a debt and let a third party contact you without proving there is indeed a debt owed.

Logically, it doesn't make much sense to take you to court for €28.
It would cost them more than that to even get a case against you.

Just send them an invoice for wasting €50 of your time. Minus the 28 you're owed 22 - see how fast they pay this random bill for *nothing* (which is essentially what they have given you, assuming the information that you have provided is correct).

I can't stand companies who make it as annoyingly difficult as possible to cancel their service.

the world wonders

Dr.Funke wrote: »

From what I've read they can't actually damage my credit rating unless it goes to court?

Even then my understanding is that the Irish Credit Bureau does not take random court judgements into account, unless they are specifically reported to it by one of its members.

Here is a list of all the companies that can actually damage your credit rating, note that Sky is not on it.

slimjimmc

Dr.Funke wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Just out of curiosity why can't they take me to court?

How long will they pursue this? I have email confirmation that my notice was received by Sky and also a screenshot of their site listing email as an acceptable form of notice.

I find it amazing that Sky (or any company) can sell a debt and let a third party contact you without proving there is indeed a debt owed.

I think because you don't have a contact with them so they have no grounds for claiming you own them a debt. Sky, however, could take you to court but over €28?, unlikely.

Have you made any changes to your subscription in the past year that might have tied you to another 12 month minimum period? If so then you may indeed owe them money.

Femme_Fatale

Why can't you ring 0818 numbers?

Surely to find out whether you owe the money or not, ring them and ask for a balance breakdown? It's not possible to just bill someone for fresh air.

Invoice for €50 - wtf?

Sky is a huge company - it will do things by the book. People telling you what it's doing wrong and what it can't do, don't have a clue in fairness.

Companies do sell debts - it is a legitimate practice.

Femme_Fatale

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

It's not possible to just bill someone for fresh air.

You would think so, wouldn't you.

Dr.Funke

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Why can't you ring 0818 numbers?

Surely to find out whether you owe the money or not, ring them and ask for a balance breakdown? It's not possible to just bill someone for fresh air.

Invoice for €50 - wtf?

Sky is a huge company - it will do things by the book. People telling you what it's doing wrong and what it can't do, don't have a clue in fairness.

Companies do sell debts - it is a legitimate practice.

No offence but I don't see what numbers I can and cannot ring has to do with this issue.

I can take an educated guess what they think I owe them money for and it's a month's service, which I did not use.

I know selling debts is a legitimate practise, I just find it very strange that a company can sell a debt and threaten a customer with a bad credit rating without first proving there is a debt owed.

Femme_Fatale

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You would think so, wouldn't you.

Yup. It's not possible to just bill someone for nothing - for the craic. Systems don't facilitate it - there needs to be a corresponding debt. Unfortunately there can be one in error on occasion.

Y'see, people who are not au fait with customer service/consumer responsibilities/consumer law think the big bad company is "out to get" the little guy by doing mean things that they shouldn't be doing, however that is just populist notions, media spin etc. Companies really couldn't be arsed doing stuff to customers that they're not supposed to do. Companies actually like good publicity.

Dr.Funke wrote: »

No offence but I don't see what numbers I can and cannot ring has to do with this issue.

Well you're saying you had a "feeling" that they were trying their best to stop you from leaving them... but they gave you a phone number to ring; not their fault that you "can't" phone it.

I can take an educated guess what they think I owe them money for and it's a month's service, which I did not use.

Ya can't really take a guess - surely just ask them what this invoice is for? Even ask them to send out a statement? If you don't do that, the notifications will continue. Saying "I don't owe anything" won't stop them. If there is a charge on the system for someone, it won't just go away - the customer either needs to pay it or have it reversed if it is an error.
Personally I'd have to know what the charge is referring to.

Dr.Funke

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Well you're saying you had a "feeling" that they were trying their best to stop you from leaving them... but they gave you a phone number to ring; not their fault that you "can't" phone it.

They gave me three methods to contact them, I chose email because I can't call non-geographical numbers and even if I could I wouldn't as from previous experience you can be a while on these calls.

With email I have written proof I contacted them and also have acknowledgement of that.

They told me they'd call me and they didn't. To me that's making it difficult to cancel the service, along with not accepting my original notice.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ya can't really take a guess - surely just ask them what this invoice is for? Even ask them to send out a statement? If you don't do that, the notifications will continue. Saying "I don't owe anything" won't stop them. If there is a charge on the system for someone, it won't just go away - the customer either needs to pay it or have it reversed if it is an error.
Personally I'd have to know what the charge is referring to.

They haven't told me so far what the amount owed is for. As I said in the original post I received a letter on Wednesday stating I owed them €28, with no breakdown and the next day I had the debt collectors contacting me.

Sky have my number, they could have contacted me if they feel I owe them something but they haven't. I won't be going out of my way to help them out.

wmpdd3

I have cancelled SKY for my parents twice in the last few years and it was an ordeal. It involved 2 calls and a hell of a while on hold.

Many offers were made and roundabout ways of extending the call were employed, but the contract was cancelled.

Sky and UPC etc make it as hard as possible to cancel, as soon as you go an hour into the date after your activation date you are charged for another 30 days.

I have to cancel my own in a few days time and I will not take no for an answer. The worst bit is getting proof that you have cancelled.

I think its a bad sign when websites make up a 'how to' as it it so hard to cancel!

How To Cancel My Sky Subscription – Step By Step Guide From TvTrade.ie
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2
In my experience Sky make it very easy to sign up to their services and in fairness they generally provide a competent technical service.
Their main failing is that Sky refuse to accept that a customer may just want to leave – and perhaps for this reason deserve to be tortured via a series automated phone menu selections before getting to sky rep who “wants to talk it through with you” which if you are not firm can last 10 minutes (or until your credit runs out).
Anyway with this in mind I have written an overview of how to Cancel Your Sky and the pitfalls to expect to face.
Steps to cancel sky
Phone sky on 0818 719 819
Select
Option ‘3′ – ‘Cancel or thinking of leaving us’
Option ‘5′ - ’Thinking of leaving us’
Period on Hold
Talk to sky assistant and request cancellation of your account (Be firm with them)
Note:
Ensure you are entitled to Cancel Your Sky Subscritpion i.e.:
have honoured your sky contract for at least 12 months
have not been upgraded to sky+, HD etc in the last 12 months
Sky will only allow the person who is named on the account cancel the subscription
Sky normally take out 1 final payment from your account directly after you ring to cancel leaving you with 30 days before the viewing is actually cut off.

Femme_Fatale

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yup. It's not possible to just bill someone for nothing - for the craic. Systems don't facilitate it - there needs to be a corresponding debt. Unfortunately there can be one in error on occasion.

Y'see, people who are not au fait with customer service/consumer responsibilities/consumer law think the big bad company is "out to get" the little guy by doing mean things that they shouldn't be doing, however that is just populist notions, media spin etc. Companies really couldn't be arsed doing stuff to customers that they're not supposed to do. Companies actually like good publicity.

Do you really believe this? If they're billing him for service and custom which was neither used nor asked for, then it's a fee that's being pulled from thin air. If he was to bill Sky for his time being wasted, how is that different than sky billing him for an extra month of service when none exists? Seriously, I would love to hear your thoughts on this one, seeing as you seem to have a background with Sky or a similar corporation from your posts.

Femme_Fatale

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Do you really believe this?

Yes. You're only getting one side - why are you so confident it's correct?

If they're billing him for service and custom which was neither used nor asked for, then it's a fee that's being pulled from thin air.

How is that possible? I reckon either they made a mistake or he is incorrect in saying that he owes nothing - not saying he's lying but that he erroneously thinks he owes nothing. What about usage of the service before the actual closing date? That may not be included in his last bill. The idea you have of the company deciding "Ah let's add on a charge for the craic, heheh; even though it's completely wrong of us and terrible PR" is just... ludicrousness.

If he was to bill Sky for his time being wasted, how is that different than sky billing him for an extra month of service when none exists? Seriously, I would love to hear your thoughts on this one, seeing as you seem to have a background with Sky or a similar corporation from your posts.

I don't work for Sky or a similar corporation - I have worked in customer service though, and am blown away by the assumptions people who obviously haven't a clue make on this forum.
Why is it that the company is always wrong? The customer can be, you know.

Femme_Fatale

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yes. You're only getting one side - why are you so confident it's correct?

How is that possible? I reckon either they made a mistake or he is incorrect in saying that he owes nothing - not saying he's lying but that he erroneously thinks he owes nothing. What about usage of the service before the actual closing date? That may not be included in his last bill. The idea you have of the company deciding "Ah let's add on a charge for the craic, heheh; even though it's completely wrong of us and terrible PR" is just... ludicrousness.

I don't work for Sky or a similar corporation - I have worked in customer service though, and am blown away by the assumptions people who obviously haven't a clue make on this forum.
Why is it that the company is always wrong? The customer can be, you know.

See you're missing my point here, just because Sky decide that he owes another month, doesn't mean that it's gospel. As a consumer, it is this mans duty to protect himself from dodgy charges and all the other sorts of crap that large corporations will try and levy on him.

Sky have one objective: profit. I have dealt with numerous companies who put profit ahead of customer service, so tell me, why is Sky different? Or rather, why are you so confident that Sky is looking after this man's interests ahead of their own?

wmpdd3

I think the difference between SKY and any other supplier I can think of is your billing period is from the day you activate your card.

You can only give 30 days notice and not be charged for another month by calling on the day in the month your card was activated, ie for me the 17th of the month.

If you call on any other day, they get you to call back or charge you for your final month and a part month, ie 45 days. Its always been the same an I have never seen it in another company.

ie for UPC you call up on and give 30 days notice, they cut you off in 30 days time. You are billed in advance during your contract, so your final payment after notice will be for 15 or so days.

And I used to work for SKY!

Dr.Funke

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm going to post exactly what I did so if I'm in the wrong someone can let me know. Dates are not exact but the time frames are.

17th January: Email Sky to give cancellation notice. I mention my next billing period starts on 22nd January, which will have me paid up until February. So over 30 days notice being given to take into account they won't read the email straight away.

February: Payment made by direct debit to Sky for a month in advance.

Weeks in between: Refusing to accept my cancellation by email, will have to give another 30 days notice by phoning them. Call back arranged and never received. I email them to tell them I'll be cancelling the direct debit. No reply.

22nd February: Sky card deactived and not working. Service finished on the day I requested in my original email.

No further contact until last week with threatening letter and message from debt collector.

Dr.Funke

Update:

I received an email from Sky today.

They said:

They tried to call me this afternoon (They didn't)
They admit receiving my cancellation
They transferred it to the ROI team who emailed me to contact them (They didn't, they said they'd contact me)
They never heard back from me (They did, I didn't receive the follow up call as promised)
Apology and balance cleared.

Glad it's sorted but I won't be rushing back to use any of their services any time soon.

wmpdd3

Well done, but how many just pay the debt collector and their charges?

In 6 months time you'll get an offer or half price for 1 year if you come back.

And that's business

Dr.Funke

I received a lovely threatening letter from Emerald Isle Collections today.

We have been authorised to recover from you the above debt which has been outstanding for some time. It is really important that you make payment on receipt of this to avoid the matter being escalated to the next stage of the debt collection process which involves a Home Visit.

Should you choose to ignore this Notice, your case will be referred to one of our field based Debt Collectors who will visit you at the above address to agree repayment arrangements with you.

Utter scumbags sending letters like this to get payments out of people. Like another poster said, how many people just pay to avoid the hassle or out of fear of these home visits?

Femme_Fatale

Dr.Funke wrote: »

They tried to call me this afternoon (They didn't)

Why on earth would they say they did when they didn't?

Dr.Funke wrote: »

I received a lovely threatening letter from Emerald Isle Collections today.
Utter scumbags sending letters like this to get payments out of people. Like another poster said, how many people just pay to avoid the hassle or out of fear of these home visits?

Meh, bullies are people who harass and abuse people with no provocation, not people who are doing their jobs - if they're instructed to collect what they're told is owed money, they're instructed to collect owed money. They're none the wiser. That letter was probably issued to you before Sky sorted out its mistake.

Home visits are definitely too extreme though - that very much seems like a bullying tactic, and shame on whoever implemented it (not those sending the letters about it though).

wmpdd3

The only person authorised to do a home visit to collect a debt is the sheriff.

slimjimmc

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The only person authorised to do a home visit to collect a debt is the sheriff.

Shouldn't that be "the only person authorised to do a home visit to seize goods as payment towards a debt is the sheriff and, even then, only when acting under a court order"? I may be wrong but I understood that anyone can visit to request or collect payment but only without force, harassment or menaces.

I think the home visit referred to by the OP is more of scare or shame tactic.
Someone who doesn't understand the limits on debt collectors might imagine heavies demanding cash or goods, and those who do understand probably won't want the neighbours getting wind of debt collectors coming to your door.

pleasant Co.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Why on earth would they say they did when they didn't?.

Maybe "try" is a relative term...maybe their attempt stopped before they entered all the OP's numbers, maybe the picked up the phone with the intention of calling the OP, maybe their phone broke while dialling the OP....

/tongue firmly in cheek :cool:

Femme_Fatale

See, this is the unfair stuff that gets trotted out without ANY back-up whatsoever re customer service agents who can't defend themselves. They're just ordinary people, vast majority of whom want to help, yet it just gets decided by randomers that they're completely malicious.

pleasant Co.

Some of them are just incompetent, whether by choice (due to work dissatisfaction) or by nature.

OwaynOTT

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

See, this is the unfair stuff that gets trotted out without ANY back-up whatsoever re customer service agents who can't defend themselves. They're just ordinary people, vast majority of whom want to help, yet it just gets decided by randomers that they're completely malicious.

My experience with sky would lead me to believe the story here.
Signed up for sky plus hd, the house had an existing dish. Installation guy comes out and sets up box.
A few days later it doesn't work. Ring up and spend nearly a hour on phone and get no where, technician to call out anytime between 11-4 and shows up at nearly 5.
Turns out the dish we had wasn't usable the way it was for sky plus services, only 1 receiver apparently.
Why wasn't that checked by him?
Why didn't the agent on phone check to see what was installed before at that house?
To get a refund for the days of no service involves ringing them again and being on hold and passed around, so coupled with the original call would negate any refund.
No service again, another lengthy discussion. Technician out again, he knows its not the box but replaces it and voila no service. Another call and now it's the card so we have to wait 4-5 working days. New card works again, new box not as good as old and all recordings lost. No refund.
Get a letter saying because I'm such a valued customer they are giving me free sky sports for 6 months, nice one. Next two bills, still billed for it. After numerous calls and numerous people passing me around they decide that I have to ring a different number altogether because I need to talk to a different department.
Called them and they have no record of any such letter, so I emailed it to them. It takes five emails, which were all sent without issue, before to acknowledge that I got a letter. Waited a week for them to call back like they said the would no call. Call them back up and jump through their hoops and finally get it sorted. No apologies for the hassle.
So far my calls to sky have cost over €40 and I've received one partial refund of €7.50.
Two months later I got double billed, so over €100 comes out of my account. Ring them up, again so more cost, and get 'oh it seems we doubled billed you', so reason why or apology.
Cancel my hd, a few months later those channels are working again? Ring them up and apparently they have applied free hd to my account for 6 months, I no longer have a hd tv. They never told me they would be doing this. To cancel it I would have to spend ,ore time on the phone and speak to another person, so I asked will it just stop after 6 months and got a clear yes.
7 months later I get charged for hd in my standard definition tv.
Ring the. Up and ask why it wasn't cancelled. 'Well sir you should of giving 30 days notice to cancel it before it wasn't free any,ore'. Extremely rude and I explain the situation that I never looked for it, doesn't matter.
I cancel my subscription to sky and refuse to pay the hd cost.
They put me onto a debt collection agency.
Fast forward 6-7 months and sky are ringing me to offer half price sub.
Eventually I cave and agree.
Go to set it up, 'but sir who owe such amount all ready'
Sky are the worse customer service I have dealt with and their practices are shady.

lala88

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

See, this is the unfair stuff that gets trotted out without ANY back-up whatsoever re customer service agents who can't defend themselves. They're just ordinary people, vast majority of whom want to help, yet it just gets decided by randomers that they're completely malicious.

You should know at this stage the poor costumer is always in the right wile the company are always wrong no matter what. You should also know that the likes of Sky, ESB, Airtricity make plenty of money so its ok for people to not play them...

lala88

Dr.Funke wrote: »

I received a lovely threatening letter from Emerald Isle Collections today.



Utter scumbags sending letters like this to get payments out of people. Like another poster said, how many people just pay to avoid the hassle or out of fear of these home visits?

Bullies? So if a company wants money from people who wont pay them, (and dont give me this bull**** about not being able to pay because there are far more who just wont pay) they should just let them off?