Hurling Championship 2013

Dampintheattic

realdanbreen wrote: »

Would'nt it be ironic if the two counties, Cork & Limerick, that shafted their managers in recent years were to contest the final?:cool:

And isn't it a fine thing, that Sean Og, has to shut to fook up, about team selection. Yesterday's man ranting and raving from beyond the grave:pac:

Mal-Adjusted

realdanbreen wrote: »

Hopefully Cork will make it to the final at least.
An All Ireland final without a Traditional hurling county in it does'nt bear thinking about.

Explain how the other three teams are not from "traditional hurling counties"

Explain why it "doesn't bear thinking about" if a so-called traditional county isn't in it

Rightwing

1984baby wrote: »

Congrats to cork on their hard earned victory over Kilkenny on Sunday. They were far more hungier, use their possesion better and had a far greater skill level than The Cats.

I was at the game, have watched the Sunday Game, and rewatched the full match since.

Obviously, I have Black and Amber tinted glasses on!!! But what did the rest of ye (Cork People and nuetrals) make of Barry Kelly's refereeing throughout??

Not taking anything away from Cork or being a sore loser.
I think Cork would have won even if it was 15 vs 15. Cork wanted the win more and it showed on the pitch.

I thought the ref was poor, he favoured the more aggressive team, but this has worked to KK's advantage in the past.

grenache

Mountainlad wrote: »

Two even. He was twice on the receiving end in his debut season in 2004 of fouls that got the offenders sent off (Mullane and TJ Ryan), which I myself believe can't have been a coincidence

TJ Ryan wasn't sent off in that clash with Cork at GG in 2004. He most certainly should have been though. Can't remember who he hit (was it Kieran Murphy?) but it was with the butt of the hurley. The decision by the ref to only yellow card him was the worst I've ever seen.

Thinkstoomuch

grenache wrote: »

TJ Ryan wasn't sent off in that clash with Cork at GG in 2004. He most certainly should have been though. Can't remember who he hit (was it Kieran Murphy?) but it was with the butt of the hurley. The decision by the ref to only yellow card him was the worst I've ever seen.

Jonathan o callaghan,from castletown roche.A fine ,tough hurler,always felt,he was deserving of a starting games with cork,Cyril farrell was a big fan of him.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

I thought the ref was poor, he favoured the more aggressive team, but this has worked to KK's advantage in the past.

Fortune favours the brave,Cork were brave enough to take Kilkenny on physically.

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Fortune favours the brave,Cork were brave enough to take Kilkenny on physically.

Absolutely, I was very surprised how physical Cork were. Against Limk in the semi, it was a very clean game of hurling. They tergetted KK, no question about that.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely, I was very surprised how physical Cork were. Against Limk in the semi, it was a very clean game of hurling. They tergetted KK, no question about that.

The hunter,became the hunted.Cork went looking for trouble.They simply had to win it.

In 2010,KK set the tone,by being manly against Aiseake.Cork had not the b***s to fight back.

Nice guys dont win much.Cork were beaten by Meath in 87 and 88.A lot of cork fans hate Meath to this day for their physicality.

I dont but I admire them,as they had a steel about them,to compliment their fantastic,footballers.Cork eventually learned ,and Colm o neill was righty send off in 90,but it showed Cork were not going to be bullied again.

Kenneally like O se,for years targeted Nichoclas Murphy in 09.I dont blame Kerry for it,the referee did not act on it,was not their fault.

But I blame Cork,for not reacting to it.Their should of been a Wille John Mcbride moment,like in the lions in 73 and said enough is enough,and manned up.

If you are not protected by the referee,you have no choice but to protect yourself.

You always fight fire with fire.

Great to see that finally in this Cork hurling team and long may it continue.

Like Roy Keane's hard but fair challenge,in the first minute against Mar overmars of Holland in 2002,in Dublin,a statement of intent right from the start.

mickmackey1

Duiske wrote: »

Speaking of tradition though, Dublin have been in 18 All-Ireland Hurling finals.

Only one Dublin native has ever been on the winning side however :cool:

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

The hunter,became the hunted.Cork went looking for trouble.They simply had to win it.

In 2010,KK set the tone,by being manly against Aiseake.Cork had not the b***s to fight back.

Nice guys dont win much.Cork were beaten by Meath in 87 and 88.A lot of cork fans hate Meath to this day for their physicality.

I dont but I admire them,as they had a steel about them,to compliment their fantastic,footballers.Cork eventually learned ,and Colm o neill was righty send off in 90,but it showed Cork were not going to be bullied again.

Kenneally like O se,for years targeted Nichoclas Murphy in 09.I dont blame Kerry for it,the referee did not act on it,was not their fault.

But I blame Cork,for not reacting to it.Their should of been a Wille John Mcbride moment,like in the lions in 73 and said enough is enough,and manned up.

If you are not protected by the referee,you have no choice but to protect yourself.

You always fight fire with fire.

Great to see that finally in this Cork hurling team and long may it continue.

Like Roy Keane's hard but fair challenge,in the first minute against Mar overmars of Holland in 2002,in Dublin,a statement of intent right from the start.

Unfortunately you are right. We need the refs to front up and send people off. The ref the last day should be have been on the case after a few minutes. No point sending someone off for mickey mouse yellows.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Unfortunately you are right. We need the refs to front up and send people off. The ref the last day should be have been on the case after a few minutes. No point sending someone off for mickey mouse yellows.

I Agree,refs,need to be consistent,and if you ref team A a certain way,you must do the same with team B.If they dont,then teams and rightly so,will take the law in to their own hands,and it becomes a free for all.

It was inevitable ,more teams were going to be more physical and manly in hurling.
The days of teams standing back are long gone.
The same in football.Donegal mastered it last year,nothing wrong with it their cynical play,people thought.

Now there beaten by teams who adapted to their style,Mcguinness says their now the victims.He is having a laugh in fairness.

A superb team,but no angels to cynasim.

MrJoeSoap

Average winning margin in the Football Championship this year is 8.67pts, in the Hurling Championship it is 6.61pts.

MrJoeSoap

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Average winning margin in the Football Championship this year is 8.67pts, in the Hurling Championship it is 6.61pts.

Very high average for football. Hurling has been ultra competitive this year in the latter stages. The margins of each of the provincial finals offset the averages a bit and the weaker counties threw up a few scorelines suggesting one sided affairs

MrJoeSoap

Deleted User wrote: »

Very high average for football. Hurling has been ultra competitive this year in the latter stages. The margins of each of the provincial finals offset the averages a bit and the weaker counties threw up a few scorelines suggesting one sided affairs

Compared to last year, the football average winning margin was 6.12pts per game and the hurling was 9.69. Quite a large swing, with the hurling getting closer and the football getting more one-sided. 11 of the 26 games in the hurling so far in 2013 have been decided by 5pts or less (10 of 32 last year), and there's every chance the semi-finals and final may be close-run.

mailburner

Originally Posted by realdanbreen
An All Ireland final without a Traditional hurling county in it does'nt bear thinking about

This makes it more interesting
Four teams left that weren't expected to be in this position
I thinks It's great not to have the same teams involved at this stage

That post makes no sense whatsoever but the poster can't back
up that comment at all

Realt Dearg Sec

mailburner wrote: »

Originally Posted by realdanbreen
An All Ireland final without a Traditional hurling county in it does'nt bear thinking about

This makes it more interesting
Four teams left that weren't expected to be in this position
I thinks It's great not to have the same teams involved at this stage

That post makes no sense whatsoever but the poster can't back
up that comment at all

I hope he can't, think he got a ban. Anyway New blood is what's needed. First job is cork getting bet, after that I'd be happy enough with a new ai champion

Amprodude

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

First job is cork getting bet, after that I'd be happy enough with a new ai champion

Pity you havent got over last weeks defeat yet. Never thought the sore graphes would still be evident.

mailburner

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I hope he can't, think he got a ban. Anyway New blood is what's needed. First job is cork getting bet, after that I'd be happy enough with a new ai champion

Lol, got banned on the gambling thread also...must be collecting them

I agree, Great to see in fairness
Not too knowledgeable on hurling but dublin for me

I'd give anything and I mean anything for my
county to win the footie (mayo)
I've booked the week off work almost every time we've reached the final
to go on the beer
Breaks my heart like nothing else

Realt Dearg Sec

Amprodude wrote: »

Pity you havent got over last weeks defeat yet. Never thought the sore graphes would still be evident.

Get off your high horse, read my posts, I was happy to accept we lost to by far the better team. Once kk are out, i want a new team to win. If that notion bothers you, then that sounds like you have more if a hang up than me. I wished cork well iN the Munster final, all I've heard since is dog's abuse. If I'd realised how quick ye would be on your high horse about it I wouldn't have been so inclined to support ye. More importantly, I'm starting to doubt my previous opinion that hurling needs a strong cork; if a strong cork means listening to knee jerk codology, I hope ye get more Dublin manners put on ye.

Amprodude

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Get off your high horse, read my posts, I was happy to accept we lost to by far the better team. Once kk are out, i want a new team to win. If that notion bothers you, then that sounds like you have more if a hang up than me. I wished cork well iN the Munster final, all I've heard since is dog's abuse. If I'd realised how quick ye would be on your high horse about it I wouldn't have been so inclined to support ye. More importantly, I'm starting to doubt my previous opinion that hurling needs a strong cork; if a strong cork means listening to knee jerk codology, I hope ye get more Dublin manners put on ye.

I'm on no high horse. You came on here sayin it was important that Cork get beaten and you were on about Barry Kelly influencing the game in Corks favour in previous posts and downplaying a impressive Cork win. Remember no one gave us any hope against Kilkenny. In fairness ,This Cork team has nothing won and bar 2 players on the team don't have any All Ireland medals. Cork hurling has being in big trouble for years and I think it would be a success story if they were to come on and win an All Ireland. But I wouldn't begrudge the other three an All Ireland if Cork do get beaten. Cork won't be a dominant force in hurling for a long time, we don't have the players so we need an All Ireland as much as the other three teams left in the Championship.

grenache

realdanbreen wrote: »

An All Ireland final without a Traditional hurling county in it does'nt bear thinking about.

So Limerick and Clare are non-traditional hurling counties now?!

Whatever you're smoking I want some of it!

awec

Semi final tickets arrived today

Pudders

It would be nice to see Limerick and Dublin make it through so that we have the 2 provincial finalists competig for the ultimate crown.

I'll be cheering on Dublin being from my own province.

If Cork win the first semi, I think they will have too much for either of the other two, however, if Dublin win, I still couldn't call it between either dublin and limerick or dublin and clare.

I think the dubs will have too much pyhsicallity and pace for Cork. Cork haven't been scoring great and haven't had a goal threat for a long time. The dubs with their big match experience will have no fear of Cork as they had no fear of KK or Galway.

Dublin should have beat KK twice and were much more convincing in their win against us than Cork imho.

As for Limerick Clare, too hard to call, but I think Limerick's bench edges it in their favour and in all honesty, they and Dublin have been the form teams of the championship.

Amprodude

Pudders wrote: »

It would be nice to see Limerick and Dublin make it through so that we have the 2 provincial finalists competig for the ultimate crown.

I'll be cheering on Dublin being from my own province.

If Cork win the first semi, I think they will have too much for either of the other two, however, if Dublin win, I still couldn't call it between either dublin and limerick or dublin and clare.

I think the dubs will have too much pyhsicallity and pace for Cork. Cork haven't been scoring great and haven't had a goal threat for a long time. The dubs with their big match experience will have no fear of Cork as they had no fear of KK or Galway.

Dublin should have beat KK twice and were much more convincing in their win against us than Cork imho.

As for Limerick Clare, too hard to call, but I think Limerick's bench edges it in their favour and in all honesty, they and Dublin have been the form teams of the championship.

Its Ideal for Cork that nobody is giving them hope. They nearly always play their best hurling as underdogs. At the end of the day i wouldnt be 100% convinced that Dublin would beat KK in a knock out championship match. Again it remains to be seen. Dublin have every chance of beating Cork but Cork are Cork and if they put a performance together will be hard to beat.

adrian522

Nobody giving Cork hope? Really?

I'd say plenty of people are giving Cork hope, but I'm sure if they win we'll hear all about how "everyone has been writing us off all year"

Anyway, I'd make it a 50/50 game. I don't think the layoff will suit Dublin but if they survive the first 20 mins or so I'd give them a chance.

Like a lot of neutrals I'd love to see a Dublin v Limerick final, given neither of them has won the competition for such a long time

Pudders

Amprodude wrote: »

Its Ideal for Cork that nobody is giving them hope. They nearly always play their best hurling as underdogs. At the end of the day i wouldnt be 100% convinced that Dublin would beat KK in a knock out championship match. Again it remains to be seen. Dublin have every chance of beating Cork but Cork are Cork and if they put a performance together will be hard to beat.

Don't know where you are getting that nobody is giving Cork any hope. I THINK the Dubs will beat you but I wasn't sying it was a foregone conclusion.

Also plenty of Cork and non-Cork people have Cork as favourites rather than Dublin with Paddy Power giving evens to either of you so I think most people are saying it is a difficult call.

The big fear for Cork is the sense that the job is done by beating KK and under-estimating Dublin. Dublin don't give a **** about reputations, mushrooms or JBM.

If Cork don't start well, I can't see them clawing the Dubs back. Cork against Limerick and Kilkenny started well but were weaker in the 2nd half. If they start badly, it could be fatal against the Dubs.

Realt Dearg Sec

Amprodude wrote: »

You came on here sayin it was important that Cork get beaten .

Important to me. I have to move down to Cork and I know what your fans are like when ye are winning, especially when they know you're from KK

More to the point I think most neutrals would like a non-Big 3 team to win, as it hasn't happened in a very long time. Far too long for the health of the game. So, yeah...I stand by it. It's important that ye are beaten. There's probably a better way of saying that that doesn't imply sour grapes...but we've been winning a lot, surely the last benefit you get is a bit of sour grapes?

As for your stuff about Barry Kelly, I have never once said that Cork weren't worth their win. They were, easily. Far far better, looked fresher, hungrier, played smart hurling and took your chances, stood up to the physicality. I've been consistent in all of that.

But if you think that means Barry Kelly was a fair ref? Come off it. He was terrible, no harm in pointing that out, and I don't think it takes from Cork's win. Blaming the length of the grass in 2006 though?;)

What night are Cork to name their team? Wed or Thur? Be interesting to see who they put on Keaney and Sutcliffe. I think limiting their point-scoring threat from these two would be key to winning, because they haven't been great in getting goals.

CastingCouch

Surprised Cork are least favourites (from the poll)?

They were well on top v Limerick before the sending off. Don't think Limerick are any great shakes, or Clare. Pat Horgan is key though.

Fireball07

CastingCouch wrote: »

Surprised Cork are least favourites (from the poll)?

They were well on top v Limerick before the sending off. Don't think Limerick are any great shakes, or Clare. Pat Horgan is key though.

I'm more surprised that Clare are 2nd favourites tbh!


As for the Cork-Limerick game, I've said it before but Cork were certainly better in the first 35 mins but the teams were level at half-time, Cork hadn't got the lead that they deserved and I think because of that, Limerick would have won with their stronger bench. Obviously we can't know for sure, but I think JBM will have been very disappointed to have gone in level, probably should have been 5 or 6 points up as Limerick didn't perform.

Browney7

Its a gas championship really. Cork people and pundits were saying before the Clare game it was the worst Cork teams in years and they'd win nothing yet once they beat Clare the optimism returned.

I'd agree with Fireball above, limerick started brightly but went totally out of the game and Cork got on top but before Horgan was sent off the sides were level on the scoreboard and limerick only performed for 10/15 minutes so I think limerick would have won. Cork didn't exactly kick on with the extra man against Kk but limerick kicked on against Cork.

MrJoeSoap

Outright:

Cork 8/11
Limerick 9/4
Clare 7/2

Hurler of the Year:

Pat Horgan 11/10
Donal O Grady 14/1
Pa Cronin 28/1
Ritchie McCarthy 7/1
John Conlan 16/1
Seamus Harnedy 33/1
Anthony Nash 7/1
Tom Condon 20/1
Daniel Kearney 33/1
Brendan Bugler 9/1
Darach Honan 25/1
James Ryan 33/1
Declan Hannon 10/1
Shane O'Neill 28/1
Shane Dowling 66/1
Podge Collins 12/1

Top Scorer:

Colin Ryan (40pts) 4/6
Eoin Larkin (50pts) 11/10
Patrick Horgan (34pts) 33/1

Young Hurler:

Declan Hannon evens
Shane Dowling 14/1
Christopher Joyce 40/1
Podge Collins 2/1
Danny Sutcliffe 16/1
Seadna Morey 80/1
Tony Kelly 6/1
Colm Galvin 25/1
Peter Duggan 80/1
Conor Lehane 6/1
Jamie Coughlan 40/1

Rightwing

So 34% of the boardies have fallen at the 1st fence in the poll :pac:

grenache

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Outright:

Cork 8/11
Limerick 9/4
Clare 7/2

Hurler of the Year:

Pat Horgan 11/10
Donal O Grady 14/1
Pa Cronin 28/1
Ritchie McCarthy 7/1
John Conlan 16/1
Seamus Harnedy 33/1
Anthony Nash 7/1
Tom Condon 20/1
Daniel Kearney 33/1
Brendan Bugler 9/1
Darach Honan 25/1
James Ryan 33/1
Declan Hannon 10/1
Shane O'Neill 28/1
Shane Dowling 66/1
Podge Collins 12/1

Top Scorer:

Colin Ryan (40pts) 4/6
Eoin Larkin (50pts) 11/10
Patrick Horgan (34pts) 33/1

Young Hurler:

Declan Hannon evens
Shane Dowling 14/1
Christopher Joyce 40/1
Podge Collins 2/1
Danny Sutcliffe 16/1
Seadna Morey 80/1
Tony Kelly 6/1
Colm Galvin 25/1
Peter Duggan 80/1
Conor Lehane 6/1
Jamie Coughlan 40/1

About Young Hurler of The Year,

Conor Lehane has had a poor championship in comparison to last year, 6/1 makes no sense. Sutcliffe at 16/1 is a crazy price, he's been excellent.

Podge Collins will surely win it, he's been a revelation so far.

niamhhealy86

Do tickets for the final only go through the clubs? Dying to go...

angelfire9

niamhhealy86 wrote: »

Do tickets for the final only go through the clubs? Dying to go...

Yes

nice_guy80

once Cork get to semi finals or final they are hard beat

StephenHendry

nice_guy80 wrote: »

once Cork get to semi finals or final they are hard beat

very true so many times they have won AI in a year that they are wrote off, 1990 and 1999 spring to mind. there is a lot of similarity with 99 imo, another young team with the exception of tom kenny that JBM has at is disposal. still gutted for the dubs, but there's always next year, dalo very gracious in defeat as per normal

angelfire9

StephenHendry wrote: »

very true so many times they have won AI in a year that they are wrote off, 1990 and 1999 spring to mind. there is a lot of similarity with 99 imo, another young team with the exception of tom kenny that JBM has at is disposal. still gutted for the dubs, but there's always next year, dalo very gracious in defeat as per normal

In fairness (and I say this as a Clare woman) Dalo has lots of experience in that
Gutted for him, but there's always next year
And I'm sure himself and Fitz will be meeting up to have a chat about cork if Clare do the business next Sunday

InchicoreDude

I am a big fan of Daly. He impressed me even in his Clare manager days as he had a poor enough panel at his disposal there. However, I actually think a new manager for Dublin might not be such a bad thing. He has been there for 6 years now? Thats a long time for a manager and means a lot of those players would never have played under a different manager at that level. Perhaps a new manager might bring in some 'fresh' ideas for those guys.

angelfire9

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I am a big fan of Daly. He impressed me even in his Clare manager days as he had a poor enough panel at his disposal there. However, I actually think a new manager for Dublin might not be such a bad thing. He has been there for 6 years now? Thats a long time for a manager and means a lot of those players would never have played under a different manager at that level. Perhaps a new manager might bring in some 'fresh' ideas for those guys.

Maybe he will go to Waterford?

StephenHendry

angelfire9 wrote: »

Maybe he will go to Waterford?

dalo going would be a big loss for the dubs imo, i think for them if he stays another 2 years then an AI can be theirs, you never know with a new manager what might or might not happen, look at galway e.g. changing their managers so often hasnt worked for them

angelfire9

We should really have a new poll and see where the Dubs votes are going now

Agueroooo

angelfire9 wrote: »

We should really have a new poll and see where the Dubs votes are going now

Good idea.
I have a good few Cork friends so I think mine goes to them.

InchicoreDude

angelfire9 wrote: »

Maybe he will go to Waterford?

doubt it. But maybe Galway!

Rightwing

InchicoreDude wrote: »

doubt it. But maybe Galway!

Galway would be ideal for him,,,but cunningham is staying on.

Daly won't win an all ireland with dublin.

adrian522

The fact that won't is in bold has really convinced me that you are right.

Rightwing

adrian522 wrote: »

The fact that won't is in bold has really convinced me that you are right.

I did warn the dubs that cork would do a number on them,,,and so it panned out.

Change would do them good.

Realt Dearg Sec

Rightwing wrote: »

I did warn the dubs that cork would do a number on them,,,and so it panned out.

Change would do them good.

I think change for its own sake is not a good idea. He has been instrumental in getting them to where they are, and the players clearly believe in him, which is important for them to reach their potential. Changing to a new manager you risk losing that faith in the management set up. Daly, too, has some learning to do. Playing four men up front after the sending off was suicide, but in general he has been showing that he has faith in the players as well. They can win an All Ireland, no doubt at all in my mind about that (Having lost the 2011 semi final they seemed to think that they had progressed and the progress would just continue, which was, of course, completely the wrong lesson, as proven in 2012. The nature of the loss this year is highly unlikely to lead to the same lesson again)

Rightwing

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I think change for its own sake is not a good idea. He has been instrumental in getting them to where they are, and the players clearly believe in him, which is important for them to reach their potential. Changing to a new manager you risk losing that faith in the management set up. Daly, too, has some learning to do. Playing four men up front after the sending off was suicide, but in general he has been showing that he has faith in the players as well. They can win an All Ireland, no doubt at all in my mind about that (Having lost the 2011 semi final they seemed to think that they had progressed and the progress would just continue, which was, of course, completely the wrong lesson, as proven in 2012. The nature of the loss this year is highly unlikely to lead to the same lesson again)

I agree with everything above. But next year the championship will be even more competitive. KK will be back, as will Tipp.

Dub seem to struggle with Munster teams, this is a big concern for me,,,reminds me of how LK used to struggle with Leinster teams,,,even inferior ones like Offaly/Wex.

coolisin

I'm sorry but struggling with Munster teams??
Every team struggled with Kilkenny, when Dublin had there ass handed to them. Dispite what you believe, tipp did not do a number on them, they lost by 4 points to a team who won the all Ireland the year before and where overwhelming favourites on the day.

Cork didn't do a number on them either.
Teams that are level 15times in a match is not a beating.
It was one sloppy goal, a sloppy score.
That moment the game was up against 15 men.

The years they struggled with limerick 09 they were only building.

It's just the draw that every year they've being up against a Munster team, the following game.

I didn't see them struggling on Sunday.

It was hard to call before the game, and so they were evens in the odds and rightly so.

And the 34%who wanted Dublin to win the all Ireland where the supporters who wanted to dream.

It's an uphill battle again next year but that is next year.
Tipp, Kilkenny, Galway.

But then every team will have to get over similar hurdles.