Hurling Championship 2013

Psychedelic

kilkenny12 wrote: »

Only clear when you watch it in slow motion and somebody points it out to you... Minor incident really. It would be naive to think every thing of the like should be called up on.

I actually noticed it before before the replay was shown and before Donal Og pointed it out.

Martin567

Psychedelic wrote: »

I actually noticed it before before the replay was shown and before Donal Og pointed it out.

It's interesting how quick Donal Og was to get out the microscope and forensically examine that incident last night. If a free is to be given for all such incidents, there will be a free every ten seconds no matter what team is playing.

Every high dropping ball between a full back and full forward will involve one or possibly both players fouling. Donal Og played behind Diarmuid O'Sullivan for a decade. Did he never see him fouling under every dropping ball?

munsterlegend

Martin567 wrote: »

It's interesting how quick Donal Og was to get out the microscope and forensically examine that incident last night. If a free is to be given for all such incidents, there will be a free every ten seconds no matter what team is playing.

Every high dropping ball between a full back and full forward will involve one or possibly both players fouling. Donal Og played behind Diarmuid O'Sullivan for a decade. Did he never see him fouling under every dropping ball?

Donal Og was giving a reason why the dublin defender let the ball fall from his grasp. it looked on the face of it a bad error. not blaming the kk forward or anything who was making life as difficult as possible but it was a good spot. it's a good example of cuteness and very difficult for a referee to pick up on.

Martin567

munsterlegend wrote: »

Donal Og was giving a reason why the dublin defender let the ball fall from his grasp. it looked on the face of it a bad error. not blaming the kk forward or anything who was making life as difficult as possible but it was a good spot. it's a good example of cuteness and very difficult for a referee to pick up on.

That's fair enough so long as he is just as observant of offences by other teams as the championship progresses.

Mountainlad

Martin567 wrote: »

It's interesting how quick Donal Og was to get out the microscope and forensically examine that incident last night. If a free is to be given for all such incidents, there will be a free every ten seconds no matter what team is playing.

Every high dropping ball between a full back and full forward will involve one or possibly both players fouling. Donal Og played behind Diarmuid O'Sullivan for a decade. Did he never see him fouling under every dropping ball?

Now in fairness, it was a foul that led to the games only goal.

I agree that there are a lot of similar fouls over the course of the game. But the fact remains it was a foul, at a pretty major juncture in the game. Just because he got away with it doesn't mean he should have.

It's just a little bit rich to be harping on about referees, and then when somebody commits a foul say "well sure they do this the whole time", like a child would. Nobody will listen to any legitimate points you might raise about the fouls on TJ Reid in the all-ireland semi and final if you can't call a spade a spade when it comes to your own team, because they'll just get sick of it.

Martin567

Mountainlad wrote: »

Now in fairness, it was a foul that led to the games only goal.

I agree that there are a lot of similar fouls over the course of the game. But the fact remains it was a foul, at a pretty major juncture in the game. Just because he got away with it doesn't mean he should have.

It's just a little bit rich to be harping on about referees, and then when somebody commits a foul say "well sure they do this the whole time", like a child would. Nobody will listen to any legitimate points you might raise about the fouls on TJ Reid in the all-ireland semi and final if you can't call a spade a spade when it comes to your own team, because they'll just get sick of it.

That's fine but I'm just looking for the same standard of analysis to be applied to all teams. In the previous match against Offaly, Donal O'Grady was co-commentator with Marty Morrissey. Richie Power went through on a solo run and the Offaly back grabbed the collar of his shirt and held on for three or four seconds before the ref awarded a free. O'Grady looked at the replay and insisted it was a very soft free and he couldn't see what it had been given for at all! This is just the sort of thing I've come to expect from him over recent years.

Now Donal Og Cusack is far newer at this job and is certainly a good speaker with some interesting things to say. It was a good spot last night and I trust he will be just as vigilant with all teams over the course of the year.

Mountainlad

Martin567 wrote: »

That's fine but I'm just looking for the same standard of analysis to be applied to all teams. In the previous match against Offaly, Donal O'Grady was co-commentator with Marty Morrissey. Richie Power went through on a solo run and the Offaly back grabbed the collar of his shirt and held on for three or four seconds before the ref awarded a free. O'Grady looked at the replay and insisted it was a very soft free and he couldn't see what it had been given for at all! This is just the sort of thing I've come to expect from him over recent years.

Now Donal Og Cusack is far newer at this job and is certainly a good speaker with some interesting things to say. It was a good spot last night and I trust he will be just as vigilant with all teams over the course of the year.

In fairness, O'Grady and Cuasck aren't the same person.

Formosa

That Sunday game analysis last night was cringe-worthy stuff, and all down to one man. Des Cahill must be the worst I've ever seen to chair a discussion. No flow to it, awkward pauses, everyone looking at each other.

Makes me appreciate how good Michael Lyster is at the same job.

Squirrell needs to be consigned to the scrapheap too, just a rambling babbling fool at this stage.

Cusack & Sheedy could be quite good with someone half professional running the show.

Pudders

Will the replay of KK Dubs be on TV or will they really stick with Cavan Monaghan???

Pudders

And KK missed Mick Fennelly as much as Henry. He is as important to us these days. He really drives the team on.

denishurley

Formosa wrote: »

Squirrell needs to be consigned to the scrapheap too, just a rambling babbling fool at this stage.

"He's what you'd call a buzzy type of a player, Ger"

Charlie69

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I've never seen a team play for frees like Kilkenny- they really know how to play the ref.

That's not a criticism by the way- other teams should do it too

its not working very well for them seeing as Dublin were awarded more frees than Kilkenny yesterday by tipp ref

MfMan

"Currams is a tricky character" - Ger Canning, Off. v Wat.

Rightwing

Good job TV3 had the rights to the clare-cork match. I watched the highlights on rte, and officially the worst commentary I've ever heard. The award goes to:

Marty Morrissey.

Professey Chin

Rightwing wrote: »

Good job TV3 had the rights to the clare-cork match. I watched the highlights on rte, and officially the worst commentary I've ever heard. The award goes to:

Marty Morrissey.

The dubbed commentary really is absolutely shocking.

irelandguy10

Does anyone else here think waterford have a chance this year?. I think the first game vs clare came too early for that very young team , and that win in offaly saturday would do great for their confidence and they have a easy draw away to westmeath saturday. Am i the only one who thinks the deise men have a chance this year?

robbiezero

irelandguy10 wrote: »

Does anyone else here think waterford have a chance this year?. I think the first game vs clare came too early for that very young team , and that win in offaly saturday would do great for their confidence and they have a easy draw away to westmeath saturday. Am i the only one who thinks the deise men have a chance this year?

Yes. They have no chance.

Fireball07

irelandguy10 wrote: »

Does anyone else here think waterford have a chance this year?. I think the first game vs clare came too early for that very young team , and that win in offaly saturday would do great for their confidence and they have a easy draw away to westmeath saturday. Am i the only one who thinks the deise men have a chance this year?

A chance to win the All-Ireland???

Realt Dearg Sec

irelandguy10 wrote: »

Does anyone else here think waterford have a chance this year?. I think the first game vs clare came too early for that very young team , and that win in offaly saturday would do great for their confidence and they have a easy draw away to westmeath saturday. Am i the only one who thinks the deise men have a chance this year?

If you mean the all Ireland, I don't think so. But an all Ireland quarter final is very in their grasp and on their day they could beat most teams in the championship. They are just too young and lacking in some key areas to beat all those teams in the one year. A quarter, semi is a long shot, would be speechless if they got further.

dastardly00

irelandguy10 wrote: »

Does anyone else here think waterford have a chance this year?. I think the first game vs clare came too early for that very young team , and that win in offaly saturday would do great for their confidence and they have a easy draw away to westmeath saturday. Am i the only one who thinks the deise men have a chance this year?

Only Waterford people think they can ever win the All-Ireland! :pac:

Rightwing

dastardly00 wrote: »

Only Waterford people think they can ever win the All-Ireland! :pac:

If KK are as weak as they have looked so far, then I'd say any of 6/7 counties can win it this year.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Rightwing wrote: »

If KK are as weak as they have looked so far, then I'd say any of 6/7 counties can win it this year.

Apart from KK (who themselves look more ordinary than ever) there's nothing to fear from any team I've seen this year. Waterford are young and raw but a semi final certainly isn't out of the question.

robbiezero

Rightwing wrote: »

If KK are as weak as they have looked so far, then I'd say any of 6/7 counties can win it this year.

Galway, Tipp or Kilkenny, with outside chances for Cork and Limerick.

Mountainlad

I think that from a Waterford perspective we've always struggled to put in a run of 4 victories against big teams which is what is required should we beat Westmeath. We could beat any of the teams but doing it week in week out has proved a problem. Also we don;t have great depth.

To be honest, I don't think any teams should be thinking about all-irelands right now. The next game for all is very loseable if they don't go in with the right attitude.

But just on the subject of all-ireland contenders, nobody considered Cork All-Irleand contenders before last weekend. In fact (myself included) thought they would be beaten and with a bit to spare. I think to alter that assumption so dramatically based on one game (and there was enough evidence to suggest Cork could well have been beaten) I think is rash to say the least. Limerick were more impressive against Tipp, but Tipp were quite poor certainly below what I'd expect of them.

Not taking away from either team, they deserve to be where they are but they've a lot of hurling to do even to make an all-ireland final, before it even comes to thinking about winning one.

dirkmeister

I'll be hugely surprised of Kilkenny win it. We have too many injuries to vital players, with other guys starting to look as if time is catching up on them.

Realt Dearg Sec

dirkmeister wrote: »

I'll be hugely surprised of Kilkenny win it. We have too many injuries to vital players, with other guys starting to look as if time is catching up on them.

They said that last year after the Leinster final though. I agree that we are looking like our team are running out of steam (we need more of the new guns to step up, although I felt Wally and Conor Fogarty have done great stuff so far), but I think our best performances this year are still ahead.

The championship is so short and contains so few matches that people tend to over-read the importance of the games they've just seen. People over-read our hammering of Dublin last year, over-read Galway's hammering of us, definitely over-read our hammering of Tipp. The problem is that the patterns people read from these performances are so often wrong. Nearly no game has gone according to plan in the championship this year. Tipp lost, Cork won, Dublin and Wexford a draw, us and Dublin a draw, Offaly scored four goals on us and really challenged us in a way nobody thought they would, Laois did the same to Galway, etc etc. Other than Clare beating Waterford, I can't think of any games that have followed the script.

Now the script says we are tired and riddled with injuries. I think we'll still have a major say in this championship, because the performances can and will get better.

But that doesn't mean I'm not worried by how we've looked, or that other teams wont see us as vulnerable and beatable.

Poor_old_gill

Charlie69 wrote: »

its not working very well for them seeing as Dublin were awarded more frees than Kilkenny yesterday by tipp ref

That just masks the reality though- good teams usually give a way a lot of frees as the foul teams in their own half so as to stop them counter attacking.

Its the type of frees that are won- Kilkenny know how to win a free in a good position, its a skill in itself

redzerologhlen

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

They said that last year after the Leinster final though. I agree that we are looking like our team are running out of steam (we need more of the new guns to step up, although I felt Wally and Conor Fogarty have done great stuff so far), but I think our best performances this year are still ahead.

The championship is so short and contains so few matches that people tend to over-read the importance of the games they've just seen. People over-read our hammering of Dublin last year, over-read Galway's hammering of us, definitely over-read our hammering of Tipp. The problem is that the patterns people read from these performances are so often wrong. Nearly no game has gone according to plan in the championship this year. Tipp lost, Cork won, Dublin and Wexford a draw, us and Dublin a draw, Offaly scored four goals on us and really challenged us in a way nobody thought they would, Laois did the same to Galway, etc etc. Other than Clare beating Waterford, I can't think of any games that have followed the script.

Now the script says we are tired and riddled with injuries. I think we'll still have a major say in this championship, because the performances can and will get better.

But that doesn't mean I'm not worried by how we've looked, or that other teams wont see us as vulnerable and beatable.

It makes for a good championship this year though. Nice to see predictability is gone out the window

irelandguy10

I think this is the most open championship in years from Tipp to Dublin galway to Waterford its fantastic for the hurling championship alot of great matches in store this year

Realt Dearg Sec

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

That just masks the reality though- good teams usually give a way a lot of frees as the foul teams in their own half so as to stop them counter attacking.

Its the type of frees that are won- Kilkenny know how to win a free in a good position, its a skill in itself

That's utter nonsense. First off, that's not what was said in the original post, which was that KK are great at winning frees, nothing about positions.

Second, you've managed to move it to "winning a free in a good position". How is that "a skill in itself"? Is it harder to win a free in a good position as opposed to a bad one? What would a bad position be for winning a free? And what evidence have you that KK are better at this than any other team? Do they win more of these frees in good positions than other teams? Could it not just be that teams are more likely to give away frees when the opposition is in a scoring position?

In other words, I think this is just you having a go at Kilkenny, dressing it up as a compliment, and providing no meaningful statements that can actually be challenged in any way (or moving the goalposts when you're called out).

Poor_old_gill

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

That's utter nonsense. First off, that's not what was said in the original post, which was that KK are great at winning frees, nothing about positions.

Second, you've managed to move it to "winning a free in a good position". How is that "a skill in itself"? Is it harder to win a free in a good position as opposed to a bad one? What would a bad position be for winning a free? And what evidence have you that KK are better at this than any other team? Do they win more of these frees in good positions than other teams? Could it not just be that teams are more likely to give away frees when the opposition is in a scoring position?

In other words, I think this is just you having a go at Kilkenny, dressing it up as a compliment, and providing no meaningful statements that can actually be challenged in any way (or moving the goalposts when you're called out).

I don't have a dossier of evidence, I have an opinion!

Moving the goalposts? I responded to a comment- calm down a bit, you're getting overly offended by something that wasn't overly offensive.

Winning frees in specific parts of the field is a skill- lots of teams do it, look at Donegal, look at Andy Moran for Mayo.

There is no bad position for winning a free but some are better than others, its not the confusing a concept.

Realt Dearg Sec

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I don't have a dossier of evidence, I have an opinion!

Moving the goalposts? I responded to a comment- calm down a bit, you're getting overly offended by something that wasn't overly offensive.

Winning frees in specific parts of the field is a skill- lots of teams do it, look at Donegal, look at Andy Moran for Mayo.

There is no bad position for winning a free but some are better than others, its not the confusing a concept.

http://cdn0.meme.li/instances/300x300/39156835.jpg

What I mean by moving the goalposts is, you are arguing that Kilkenny are better at winning frees, and you said it in the context of the Dublin game. When it was pointed out that in that game Dublin got more frees, you then said "winning frees in good positions". Which is much more subjective, and basically lets you get away with accusing Kilkenny of playing for frees.

But it just isn't true. I think that apart from Richie Power on occasion, and Larkin running onto the hurl sometimes, our players just don't play for frees. They play the whistle and virtually never look to the ref for a free, but just get on with it. Forcing a foul, maybe, but playing for a free doesn't make sense in a game of hurling to me.

But it's not that I need a dossier of evidence. Any evidence at all would be good.

Fireball07

A Munster final without Tipp and a Leinster final without Kilkenny, with one of them gone after Round 2 of the qualifiers. Don't think anyone would have predicted that at the outset.

Personally, I'd still have KK as favourites for the whole thing, although getting over Tipp will be a huge task. Without, Shefflin and Fennelly, they're just not the same...get those back and they are the best imo.


Still, it'll be an interesting Championship no matter what happens. Dublin will really fancy winning Leinster now, having knocked out Kilkenny (although I'm sure Galway will be equally delighted). And Limerick-Cork looks to be 50-50 too.

Hard luck to the Carlow hurlers tonight btw.

Frankie Lee

Great performance from Carlow today coupled with a promising performance from Westmeath are good signs for the future of Hurling in the developing counties. The GAA cannot justify sending them back to the Christy Ring cup any more.

Frankie Lee

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Great performance from Carlow today coupled with a promising performance from Westmeath are good signs for the future of Hurling in the developing counties. The GAA cannot justify sending them back to the Christy Ring cup any more.

Is the league even relevant any more you'd wonder considering that Limerick and Dublin (both 1b) beat ourselves and Kilkenny (both 1A) and Cork who lost twice to Clare beat them handy? Is it only hampering the progress of developing counties if they are restricted from playing the best competitively? Perhaps they could allow development squads or intermediate panels of the stronger counties to participate in the lower divisions of the league should they be willing to participate? Just an idea.

Diabhal Beag

Delighted for the Dublin supporters. They're some of the best fans in both codes and travel to even the most pointless away match. Would rather lose to Daly's side again than KK. Should be a good turnout in Croker Sunday week.

If they don't show Tipp-KK I'll go mental.

Fireball07

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

If they don't show Tipp-KK I'll go mental.

Ah, they surely will....


Surely.

Fireball07

Fireball07 wrote: »

Ah, they surely will....


Surely.

It would be a first if they didnt considering the general interest there will be in this game

joebloggs32

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would be a first if they didnt considering the general interest there will be in this game

Tv 3 have it

joebloggs32

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Tv 3 have it

Fair enough so long as someone does because there wont be a ticket to be got

Thinkstoomuch

Fireball07 wrote: »

A Munster final without Tipp and a Leinster final without Kilkenny, with one of them gone after Round 2 of the qualifiers. Don't think anyone would have predicted that at the outset.

Personally, I'd still have KK as favourites for the whole thing, although getting over Tipp will be a huge task. Without, Shefflin and Fennelly, they're just not the same...get those back and they are the best imo.


Still, it'll be an interesting Championship no matter what happens. Dublin will really fancy winning Leinster now, having knocked out Kilkenny (although I'm sure Galway will be equally delighted). And Limerick-Cork looks to be 50-50 too.

I dont want to be negative on what is such a great night for Dublin Hurling but i feel the Galway game is a week too early for them.Yes the extra games are better than any training and really give you an edge but to play 5 games in just over a month will really push them to the limit.The intensity they brought tonight,it will very hard to get close to that level within a week.

It is just a shame the Leinster final is not two weeks away.After tonights display they deserve a chance to give it their best shot.I fear next week could be a very flat performance.

If Galway are with them at half time they will be much fresher in the closing stages.Galway are very quiet,they have not become a bad team overnight.
I think Cunnigham was not bothered about the league at all.

KK may will recover but they certainly have a huge ask now.They have had 2 extremely tough games against Dublin but now have to be closer to peak to beat Tippereary.If they beat Tipp they have another qualifer added to a quater final semi final and Final.

Last year they did bounce back after the Leinster final ,but now they will have 3 high intensity games within a month.There is a lot miles on the clock.

If they get all their players recovered from injury they will be a force but Shefflin will hardly be back for the tipp game.They are no where near the same force without him.

Tippereary have their own problems but still this could be the best time to meet KK.They looked a tired team lacking the energy and drive of usal.Even against Offaly they were cracks beginning to appear.

Most people wont give tipp a chance and that is ideal for tippereary.They feel they owe KK one.
I would have fancied Tipp to beat KK in the all ireland final,but that never panned out.I would give tipp a better chance to beat them now.They will get stronger if they beat Tipp but they are vulnerable at the moment .

Cork and Limerick is so close to call.A lot will depend on injuries and Management will have a huge bearing on this game.
Limerick have a free run now with club games leading up to the munster final so that will help them.

An added incentive now also for the winner.you potentially avoid KK or Tipp in a quater final.

Thinkstoomuch

KK V Tipp ..surely be in thurles for a qualifer????? Has a venue been decided???

Mountainlad

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

KK V Tipp ..surely be in thurles for a qualifer????? Has a venue been decided???

Yeah Kilkenny have home advantage, it'll be Nowlan Park.

phkk

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

KK V Tipp ..surely be in thurles for a qualifer????? Has a venue been decided???

Yeah, Nowlan Park, time tbc

phkk

phkk wrote: »

Yeah, Nowlan Park, time tbc

I feel that 6 o'clock would be a nice time of the evening for it

Zardoz

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Tv 3 have it

Hurling is unwatchable on that channel ,the picture quality is atrocious.

Thinkstoomuch

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah Kilkenny have home advantage, it'll be Nowlan Park.

Jesus...changes the climate somewhat.

Still Tippereary gave a good account of themselves in the league final.This is the best time to meet them.
This should be epic.

Kilkenny could still win the All Ireland....mark my words. Ill believe Tipp can beat them when i see it

Charlie69

Congratulations to the Dublin hurlers from all in Kilkenny,ye were the better team by far and deserved the victory,thought we looked old tonight but proud of the way we kept fighting to the end and this great team don't owe us anything,Best of luck in Leinster final