mother using our kids to get more money

ooter

the mother of my 2 kids is basically using our 2 kids to emotionally blackmail me in to giving them more money on top of the weekly maintenance i already pay.she's basically telling them she doesn't have the money to give them what they require so she gets them to ask me can they have money to buy something or go somewhere and i find it very hard to say no because i know their mother will use it against me and try to make me look bad.there's little or no contact with me and their mother at present.
does anyone have any advice/tips on how i could approach this issue or turn them down without feeling guilty?

desbrook

ooter wrote: »

the mother of my 2 kids is basically using our 2 kids to emotionally blackmail me in to giving them more money on top of the weekly maintenance i already pay.she's basically telling them she doesn't have the money to give them what they require so she gets them to ask me can they have money to buy something or go somewhere and i find it very hard to say no because i know their mother will use it against me and try to make me look bad.there's little or no contact with me and their mother at present.
does anyone have any advice/tips on how i could approach this issue or turn them down without feeling guilty?

I know nothing of your situation other than what you have posted OP and thats not a lot so please bear with me . I'll take your word though .

Please please don't use your ex's tactics and ferry messages using the kids . TALK to HER . If possible ask can the two of you meet somewhere neutral without the kids . Maybe your maintainance isn't enough maybe it is I don't know but if the communication is bad between you don't know either . (If it was decided on by a Judge that doesn't necessarily make it adequate either )

Take the line that she is resorting to desperate measures by asking the kids to ask you for stuff and you want to see if this can be avoided . If you want a row you'll get one very easily in this situation and the main ones to suffer will be the kids . Take the attitude of trying to help and agro can be avoided .

ooter

in my kids' mother's eyes no amount of money/maintenance would be enough.
if it isn't enough maybe she should've thought of that before turfing me out,she got a hell of a lot more then than she does now and the reason we're in this situation is because of arguments over,you guessed it,money.
maybe she thought i would be foolish enough to continue to give her the same amount of money.
she refuses to communicate with me,i communicate with my kids through my 16 year old son's mobile phone and when i see them in person and i don't ask them to ferry messages,i would never do that.i don't mind doing my fair share financially for my kids but it has to be fair and not mostly one sided.
the maintenance wasn't decided by a judge..

Payton

As desbrook has said you need to talk to her and the sooner the better for all concerned.
Useing children in a breakup is I'm my opinion the lowest thing anyone can do.
From your original post you don't say if there are any maintenance orders in place and that its a mutual understanding between you both and that can work. You have a right to live your own life..rent, bills, food, and what ever is left over that's what is disposable as you wish.
If you can try and work it out between you both and leave the kids out of the messaging, your both adults so try and act like one. If not you may have to go to court and once you can prove you can prove where your income is going and 'proof' that you are paying maintenance and let the judge decided.
Best of luck.
Best of

ooter

I'd love to go to court,is it possible to bring yourself to court for a maintenance order?
I'd gladly pay whatever the judge orders.

Payton

ooter wrote: »

I'd love to go to court,is it possible to bring yourself to court for a maintenance order?
I'd gladly pay whatever the judge orders.

Yes it is possible to represent yourself in court.

ooter

Thanks payton,that's good to know.

Citycap

ooter wrote: »

I'd love to go to court,is it possible to bring yourself to court for a maintenance order?
I'd gladly pay whatever the judge orders.

Yes. But be very prepared. Don't get emotional. Be sure to have all facts as regards income, monies paid. Be sure to come across as reasonable and dont respond to provocation.

ooter

thanks citycap,good advice.
it's hard not to react to provocation when you're dealing with the type of person that i'm dealing with

miss tickle

ooter wrote: »

thanks citycap,good advice.
it's hard not to react to provocation when you're dealing with the type of person that i'm dealing with

ooter, I know it's hard to do this in this particular situation, it's very personal and you want the best for your children. You need to account for all expenditure with regard to your children. Take into account your ex's income, pertaining to the children,( child allowance, if she is unemployed or on fis, any increases with regard to the children, the maintenence you pay). Here-after,if all is in order it should be your decision with regard to how you choose to finance your children's lifestyle, if your partner has other ideas she is entitled to finance it herself (with your permission).

Norwesterner

I was in a similar situation a few years ago.
Constant phone calls and rants over the phone every time the gas bottle was empty or the rates bill arrived.
Sometimes when at work or even in the early hours of the morning.
After a divorce you need a clean cut and minimum contact
Solution?
I made arrangements with my kids to meet where and when.
I set up a direct debit with a fixed payment.
Then I destroyed my mobile phone and dropped contact with my ex wife.
She just found it tiring to track me down.
I haven't had a mobile phone since.
Kids are older now and I put money into their account when necessary, rather than pay her.
It didn't damage my relationship with them, nor affect contact growing up.

I know the stress you are going through OP, and can only say "hang in there" and you'll eventually come out of it.
Just don't make yourself too available.
Explain to your kids that money is not as available due to the economic crisis. There's no shame in austerity.

ooter

Thanks folks.
I suggested to her on numerous occasions that she could try a look for some part time work to bring in some extra income but that was like a red rag to a bull,her attitude is that I should provide all the finance which I obviously don't agree with.
I'd prefer to keep away from the house but she insists on me handing over cash so I have to go there at least once a week,she won't give me bank details and if I gave her a cheque she'd rip it up.
Again this week she got my daughter to ring me to ask for money for a school trip and when I went down with the money she said to me in front of my son "he's looking for money to go out."
Sickening!

Lyn256

Sounds like she's still trying to control you.
Time for you to take back control-start posting a cheque and maybe when she realises that you're not giving her cash she'll stop tearing them up.
Its also important that if you end up in court that you can prove what you're paying her.

You have the control in this one not her.

Failing that-set up an account for one of your kids and transfer the money into that account

Ken.

Just to let you know ooter(in case you don't). If you are paying expenses outside of maintenance you can claim it back on your tax(if your employed). you need an op1 form.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/one-parent-family.html available to download here. You need your kids pps numbers to claim and you do not need to tell your ex about your claim.

I done this and was able to claim back for the previous 4 years and got over €1500 per year. I only have the one child so not sure how it works for multiple children.

Norwesterner

"Hell hath no fury than a woman scorned"
Don't pay cash. Pay direct debit and cut contact completely.
She obviously wants cash so it wont effect her welfare payments I assume.

ooter

i think it would be better for me if i didn't have a record of the amount of maintenance i've been paying if it did end up in court
in my opinion i'm paying more at present than any judge will award but if he sees that i'm able to pay x amount at the mo i reckon he would just award that amount

Norwesterner

ooter wrote: »

i think it would be better for me if i didn't have a record of the amount of maintenance i've been paying if it did end up in court
in my opinion i'm paying more at present than any judge will award but if he sees that i'm able to pay x amount at the mo i reckon he would just award that amount

She could tell the Judge you haven't been helpful in the upbringing of the children and you wouldn't have any way of proving otherwise.
Document every penny you pay.
This is critical in any court case.

OP, it would be a hell of a lot better for you to keep records of payments and that means stop paying cash. All she has to do is claim you didn't pay a penny and you've no way to prove otherwise.
Send cheques without cash, maybe she'll cop on and stop ripping them up once she realises she's not getting her own way anymore.

ash23

As the others have said, start making a paper trail regarding the maintenance you pay.

But something struck me in your OP

ooter wrote: »

she's basically telling them she doesn't have the money to give them what they require so she gets them to ask me can they have money to buy something or go somewhere and i find it very hard to say no because i know their mother will use it against me and try to make me look bad.there's little or no contact with me and their mother at present.
does anyone have any advice/tips on how i could approach this issue or turn them down without feeling guilty?

Part of parenting is saying no to the kids. Your ex is able to say no to them. This doesn't necessarily make her a bad person or parent. It doesn't even mean that she is playing them off you. She is simply telling them she can't afford it. I assume the kids are clothed and fed and have a roof over their heads? I assume they are educated and have a reasonable standard of living?

Kids will always ask for things. It's up to their parents to say no to them. Maybe she is struggling with it all. Often maintenance is nowhere near enough to cover half the costs of a child plus everything they want.

You think saying no to them is letting them down. It's not. You don't need to feel guilty. If you've no contact with the mother then how can you be sure that she's the one telling them to ask you? Kids can be really manipulative when it comes to getting what they want.
They are also pretty good at playing parents off each other, even when those parents are still together. It's even easier for them to do it when the parents are apart.


So you do need to get maintenance formally in place. But you also (and I'm trying not to be harsh) need to grow a pair and learn to say no. The kids won't die if they don't have the latest gadget or toy or if they don't have that school trip abroad. None of us relish telling our kids no and your ex probably deflects it on to you but then you're deflecting it back to her.

Saying "I can't afford it" won't make your kids hate you.

ooter

i appreciate your honesty ash.
the kids have always been well looked after and always will be as long as i have anything to do with it but their mother has this attitude that her kids should have what she never had.that's fine if you have sufficient funds to do that but that is not the case and now even more so.

ash23

ooter wrote: »

i appreciate your honesty ash.
the kids have always been well looked after and always will be as long as i have anything to do with it but their mother has this attitude that her kids should have what she never had.that's fine if you have sufficient funds to do that but that is not the case and now even more so.

Well that's her issue. You just have to say no. I'm parenting alone and frequently have to say I can't afford things, even if I want to provide them. It's not nice but my daughter knows I love her and she stills loves me.
Just start saying no when the kids ask for extra money.

clairefontaine

Saying no to your kids is a relentless and tiring habit that you just have to get into.

If she doesn't have enough money to cover something it doesn't make her bad to tell them to ask their father.

ooter

Yeah but in her eyes It's my fault that she doesn't have enough money because I don't give them enough and she relays that to the kids.it wouldn't even cross her mind to try and get a job to bring more money in.

clairefontaine

ooter wrote: »

Yeah but in her eyes It's my fault that she doesn't have enough money because I don't give them enough and she relays that to the kids.it wouldn't even cross her mind to try and get a job to bring more money in.

Ok we'll she should lay off the blame in front of the kids. It will just make them feel bad. But there is little you can do to control this.

How old are the kids? Would they need childcare during the summer? That can be a whole heap of money.

desbrook

OP - there's been some excellent advice given that other posters have taken the time to share with you . Please consider it . It's largely from men and women who have been in similar situations. There is also strong agreement among posters which surely indicates it's good advice.

To summarise : Formalise your financial arrangements with your ex by using cheques or a solicitors letter to get her bank details. Also while your solicitor is at it they might ask her to desist from bringing the kids into the requests. Inform the Social Welfare that you are paying x amount. Otherwise you may be deemed partly responsible for any fraud being committed (if any) .
Inform Revenue of your payments . You don't get relief for child maintenance but you can claim the single parents tax credit .
You will have to say no occasionally - thats parenting but with structure it should be you and your ex in agreement over what to say no to. Document your communication with your ex and all monies spent on the children directly and by means of maintaince . Use a diary and keep reciepts.
Finally do not engage in arguments - especially in front of the kids. Do not make threats and ignore any made . Use your solicitor to communicate if you are not making progress . Solicitors letters will show you are not some bum leaving your children penniless.

ooter

the kids are 17 and 11.
i have cut all communication with their mother since last saturday having taken the advice on here, haven't heard a word from her in a week.
tomorrow will be the first fathers' day i have been out of the family home, i am not going to contact my kids and if the kids don't contact me or their mother doesn't have the decency to insist that they contact me i will be very angry.
i have held off from mentioning guardianship or paying maintenance by cheque but if tommorrow passes without any contact that will change dramatically.
thanks again for all the good advice folks.

desbrook

ooter wrote: »

the kids are 17 and 11.
i have cut all communication with their mother since last saturday having taken the advice on here, haven't heard a word from her in a week.
tomorrow will be the first fathers' day i have been out of the family home, i am not going to contact my kids and if the kids don't contact me or their mother doesn't have the decency to insist that they contact me i will be very angry.
i have held off from mentioning guardianship or paying maintenance by cheque but if tommorrow passes without any contact that will change dramatically.
thanks again for all the good advice folks.

OP - No-one here told you to cut all contact. Rather most posters ( including me) encouraged you to try and communicate with her - just avoid arguments. Use legal methods (solicitors letters) failing that. I understand the eve of Father's day is difficult but bitterness will not help and threats are specifically what I advised against . Paying by cheque alone will not help you either. I can say no more.

100200 shih

You do know that you can pay maintains thro the courts , you pay them the money & they put the moneys into the mums bank account. You will have to go thro court to get this set up

ooter

desbrook wrote: »

OP - No-one here told you to cut all contact. Rather most posters ( including me) encouraged you to try and communicate with her - just avoid arguments. Use legal methods (solicitors letters) failing that. I understand the eve of Father's day is difficult but bitterness will not help and threats are specifically what I advised against . Paying by cheque alone will not help you either. I can say no more.

apologies desbrook, you are correct, nobody on here told me to stop communicating. a friend of mine who has been through similar advised me to do that, i got mixed up. the last 2 times i spoke to her on the phone it ended in us arguing, i'm tired of the arguing so it's best if i stop communicating.
i won't be making any threats, i'll simply be paying a visit to the family law court to do the necessaries.

desbrook

ooter wrote: »

apologies desbrook, you are correct, nobody on here told me to stop communicating. a friend of mine who has been through similar advised me to do that, i got mixed up. the last 2 times i spoke to her on the phone it ended in us arguing, i'm tired of the arguing so it's best if i stop communicating.
i won't be making any threats, i'll simply be paying a visit to the family law court to do the necessaries.

Apology accepted, from experience I understand it's a difficult time . Please don't forget Revenue or Social Welfare in all this and think strongly about a solicitor it's money well spent imho. Signing off now - best of luck.

Norwesterner

ooter wrote: »

apologies desbrook, you are correct, nobody on here told me to stop communicating. a friend of mine who has been through similar advised me to do that, i got mixed up. the last 2 times i spoke to her on the phone it ended in us arguing, i'm tired of the arguing so it's best if i stop communicating.
i won't be making any threats, i'll simply be paying a visit to the family law court to do the necessaries.

Good decision, Ooter. Take a breather and turn off your phone.
I speak to my kids every day but haven't conversed with my ex in over 3 years.
Regular contact with ex'es and constant bickering and phonecalls will also destroy any chance of embarking on a new relationship. People get jealous if they think you are bailing out/financing ex's more than them.
But keep records of your payments in case things turn nasty.

clairefontaine

ooter wrote: »

apologies desbrook, you are correct, nobody on here told me to stop communicating. a friend of mine who has been through similar advised me to do that, i got mixed up. the last 2 times i spoke to her on the phone it ended in us arguing, i'm tired of the arguing so it's best if i stop communicating.
i won't be making any threats, i'll simply be paying a visit to the family law court to do the necessaries.

Fair enough taking a cooling off period but there is a consequence to doing this permanently and that is your kids won't feel like they can talk to you about their mother and vice versa talk to their mom about their dad. Important to remember. Kids need to talk.

Norwesterner

clairefontaine wrote: »

Fair enough taking a cooling off period but there is a consequence to doing this permanently and that is your kids won't feel like they can talk to you about their mother and vice versa talk to their mom about their dad. Important to remember. Kids need to talk.

I believe this is called "tough love".
The ex-partner will calm down eventually over this period of non-communication.
He/she will eventually meet a new partner and the issue will fade into the background.
The issue will have to be explained to the kids that this is being done for the betterment of all.
It's similar to a Cold War. Not nice, but certainly preferable to actual war.
If the divorce is becoming messy, the only solution is a complete break from the past and the beginning of a new chapter in life.
I'm sure after a suitable period both parents will eventually make peace and learn to communicate in a proper fashion, but until such times it's better to end contact and initiate contact with the kids directly.

clairefontaine

Norwesterner wrote: »

I believe this is called "tough love".
The ex-partner will calm down eventually over this period of non-communication.
He/she will eventually meet a new partner and the issue will fade into the background.
The issue will have to be explained to the kids that this is being done for the betterment of all.
It's similar to a Cold War. Not nice, but certainly preferable to actual war.
If the divorce is becoming messy, the only solution is a complete break from the past and the beginning of a new chapter in life.
I'm sure after a suitable period both parents will eventually make peace and learn to communicate in a proper fashion, but until such times it's better to end contact and initiate contact with the kids directly.

Well I can see the benefits temporarily, head space, perspective, cooling off and all that, but long term will do more harm than good.

Divorce is there to end wars, not continue them in different forms.

SVI40

Hi OP,

Your situation sounds exactly like mine was some years ago. Ex wife who did not see why she should work, constantly getting the kids to ask me for money, telling them that they couldn't get things as I wasn't giving her money, the whole 9 yards.

If the kids came looking for money (sent by her), I'd tell them that it was between their mother and myself, and I was not going to discuss it with them, but would talk directly to their mam. Do not involve the children in this. Also, never put her down in front of them, no matter how much you are provoked or tempted to do. Children are not stupid, they can see what's going on. Don't get into arguments with her, it's not worth the stress or the hassle. At the end of the day, the children will know what is going on.

Make sure you have a paper trail of ALL payments to her. If you do not know her account details, do you what bank she is with? You can lodge money that way. Make sure there is a record of everything!!

My maintenance was via the courts, she actually got less than I was paying her voluntarily. In my experience, 7 trips to the courts, the judges I had were very reasonable. I represented my self, and had every single bank statement, visa bill, pay slip, any financial record for years back to hand. The courts only want verifiable facts.

At the end of the day, don't involve the children, don't get into arguments with her, be there for your children (not saying your not), do the right thing, and it will all eventually work out. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Most importantly, the children will see that, and recognise it.

Best of luck.

ooter

Thanks for the replies lads.
One thing I've never done is speak badly of their mother in front of them and I never will.
She is very controlling,I've no way of knowing if she bad mouths me in front of the kids but she has fallen out with my mother so there has been no visits from the kids in years.this has had a knock on effect with my father who doesn't get to see his grandchildren either even though he never fell out with her.It's like an unwritten rule,you fall out with her you fall out with the kids too.she hasn't spoken to her mother in well over a year and since then the kids have hardly seen their grandmother.
The children haven't visited me once since I wad thrown out the house and the kids haven't brought the subject up once.
I fear the same will happen with me,not so much with my son but my daughter is still young,she is around her mother 24/7 so will surely be influenced by her.
Yesterday was tough,I got a text from my son just after midnight which cheered me up but there was no visit yesterday,no contact,no present,no card.obviously I could've contacted them but I wanted to let the day ride out and see what happened.
I was joking with a friend yesterday that if I was in prison for murder I'd get more visits from my kids.
Anyhoo,if I can get through yesterday I'll get through anything,what doesn't kill you makes you stronger..

Lyn256

Ok I don't know a whole lot about this area but OP why haven't you seen your kids?
I understand that the legislation that was brought in last year brings everything back to the rights of the kids and one thing that children have is the right to see both parents

It sounds like you need to take legal advice and get everything above board.

This is about your children and whether your ex likes it or not they are entitled to a relationship with you. She has NO rights anymore to keep your kids from you and I understand that judges take a very poor view of parents that do this now

(As I said I don't know a huge amount but was recently discussing this with a friend who knows a lot about this as I was looking for advice for another friend)

ooter

I have seen them Lyn but they haven't visited me once where I'm now living.
They've either been told by their mother not to visit me or they don't want to in case they upset their mother if she finds out.I don't blame them to be honest,I'd probably do the same if I was their age and in their situation.

clairefontaine

ooter wrote: »

I have seen them Lyn but they haven't visited me once where I'm now living.
They've either been told by their mother not to visit me or they don't want to in case they upset their mother if she finds out.I don't blame them to be honest,I'd probably do the same if I was their age and in their situation.

Is there any reason for this?

That's terrible OP.:(

ash23

ooter wrote: »

I have seen them Lyn but they haven't visited me once where I'm now living.
They've either been told by their mother not to visit me or they don't want to in case they upset their mother if she finds out.I don't blame them to be honest,I'd probably do the same if I was their age and in their situation.

OP, to be honest, you're making a lot of assumptions about what is going on. You need to stop. You can't assume that when the kids don't visit or call, when they don't send a fathers day card or text or when they ask for money that their mother is automatically the cause of it.
You don't know what she is saying or doing. At some point you married her so she can't be that bad of a person.
You are letting your anger towards her affect your relationship with your children, albeit in a passive-aggressive way. Saying things like you'll take her to court if the kids don't acknowledge fathers day.....it's all just very tit for tat. If you're serious about access and maintenance and getting it regulated, it should be done. Not just because she didn't get them to acknowledge fathers day.

Your oldest is almost an adult. He has the ability to come and see you. Have you asked to see the kids? To take them for a weekend? Or have you been sitting back waiting for someone else to arrange it? Is she prohibiting them going to your place or do they prefer to be at home (which tends to happen with teens - their friends are their lives).

ooter

We are not married,I lived with the girl for 16 years so I think I should know what she is capable of.if the roles were reversed I would make sure my kids acknowledged their mother on mother's day,even if it was just a phone call.
To be honest I've been making excuses not to go to court,hoping she'd eventually come to her senses and talk this through like adults,I suppose yesterday finally proved to me nothing's going to change so I may put the wheels in motion.
I can see the kids any time I want,I ring my son and arrange stuff with him and my daughter.I live literally 10 mins away from them,it would hardly be inconveniencing them to call up to see me even once.

clairefontaine

ooter wrote: »

We are not married,I lived with the girl for 16 years so I think I should know what she is capable of.if the roles were reversed I would make sure my kids acknowledged their mother on mother's day,even if it was just a phone call.
To be honest I've been making excuses not to go to court,hoping she'd eventually come to her senses and talk this through like adults,I suppose yesterday finally proved to me nothing's going to change so I may put the wheels in motion.
I can see the kids any time I want,I ring my son and arrange stuff with him and my daughter.I live literally 10 mins away from them,it would hardly be inconveniencing them to call up to see me even once.

Did you put together a parenting plan? Start with that.

If you can see them when you want then why go to court?

I'm confused.

ash23

ooter wrote: »

We are not married,I lived with the girl for 16 years so I think I should know what she is capable of.if the roles were reversed I would make sure my kids acknowledged their mother on mother's day,even if it was just a phone call.
To be honest I've been making excuses not to go to court,hoping she'd eventually come to her senses and talk this through like adults,I suppose yesterday finally proved to me nothing's going to change so I may put the wheels in motion.
I can see the kids any time I want,I ring my son and arrange stuff with him and my daughter.I live literally 10 mins away from them,it would hardly be inconveniencing them to call up to see me even once.

One hard lesson I learned when I split up with my ex was to stop expecting them to follow the same standards I set for myself. I did the whole "fathers day", birthdays, christmas gifts from the child and it was never ever returned in kind. It hurt at the time but eventually I realised that just because I do something, doesn't mean my ex should or would.

You still haven't said if your ex prohibits the kids from going to your place or not? Is she saying they can't or is it the kids preferring to meet you elsewhere?

ooter

clairefontaine wrote: »

Did you put together a parenting plan? Start with that.

If you can see them when you want then why go to court?

I'm confused.

For guardianship and then in turn to get my name on their birth cents,2 things their mother has always refused to do.haven't decided yet whether or not to include maintenance in that..

clairefontaine

ooter wrote: »

For guardianship and then in turn to get my name on their birth cents,2 things their mother has always refused to do.haven't decided yet whether or not to include maintenance in that..

A parenting plan is an organised schedule of visitation and decisions. Google it. There are many samples of it all over the web. And some have payments in it. You guys need a mediator pronto. You sound a bit lost and daunted, understandably.

ooter

Ash,I've no way of knowing if their mother is telling them not to visit me and I'm certainly not going to ask the kids.I have witnessed her telling my daughter not to go in to her other grandmother's house in the past so I wouldn't be surprised.

ash23

ooter wrote: »

Ash,I've no way of knowing if their mother is telling them not to visit me and I'm certainly not going to ask the kids.I have witnessed her telling my daughter not to go in to her other grandmother's house in the past so I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm not suggesting you ask the children. I was wondering if she had told you that they couldn't go. So when you ask the kids, they refuse?

I just think you're blaming her for a lot with no real grounds for it. That won't help anything. If you keep assuming every bad thing is her fault and everything that happens is her doing, it's going to end up being really bitter and horrible.
And the main people who will be affected by that are the kids.

I just think you need to try and be more open to the other possibilities with regard to the kids asking for money or not calling over etc. rather than just automatically assuming their mother has been putting them up to it.

ooter

shortly after i "left" the family home my son told me he would come up to visit me, he hasn't mentioned it since so neither have i and he hasn't visited me. he has friends in the estate i'm in and has been up there numerous times over the years.
spoke to my daughter earlier and she mentioned that the family day/performance for her stage school is tomorrow, her mother obviously just forgot to tell me.
not a word about father's day either so i never mentioned it..

ooter

apologies that i have taken this way off course but i appreciate the contributions and advice from everyone, hope i haven't p1ssed anyone off but it helps to get a few things off my chest.
as for the parenting plan, i think i'd be laughed at if i mentioned that..

Owryan

From my own personal experience I would strongly advise you to get your maintenance payments sorted you will need a paper trail showing how much and how often you contribute. This is for your benefit, not hers.

Go see a solicitor about getting guardionship asap . Until you do you have no say over your own kids under irish law as you were not married. Being able to show the judge that you are supporting your kids will only help you.

I ve just gone down the court route for getting guardianship and the judge wanted facts not hearsay as to how I was accepting my role as a father.

Best of luck, its an awful place to be in but you have to start somewhere and getting guardianship will help

Payton

Hi OP...its over 2 weeks since you started this thread and posters have commented on you organising a paper trail for maintaince plus to go and seek guardianship for your children but you haven't so far...?
You really need to seek advice on where you stand...from what I can see you seem more concerned about them not sending a fathers day card and not coming to visit you, get the ball rolling and go to court and tie all the loose ends up.
I'm not being bad here but you need man up the likelyhood of her changing is zero but with the proper access/guardianship and maintaince in place through the court life will become easier..
Best of luck.