Irish woman raped in India

starling

Killer Wench wrote: »

Are you saying that getting into the car of a stranger when you are traveling through a strange place is a good idea?

I'm saying that if you get into a strangers car and he rapes you it's entirely his fault. I'm saying that women and men hitchhike all the time without anything bad happening to them.
I'm saying that victim blaming is not only a nasty thing to do, it makes it harder for rape victims to report and prosecute and that it actually contributes to the frequency of rapes.
This is neither new nor radical. I am not just making this stuff up. I think I explained it quite clearly.
Meanwhile you haven't answered my question. Would you say to that woman's face that she bears any responsibility for what some sickos did to her?

Killer Wench

starling wrote: »

I'm saying that if you get into a strangers car and he rapes you it's entirely his fault. I'm saying that women and men hitchhike all the time without anything bad happening to them.
I'm saying that victim blaming is not only a nasty thing to do, it makes it harder for rape victims to report and prosecute and that it actually contributes to the frequency of rapes.
This is neither new nor radical. I am not just making this stuff up. I think I explained it quite clearly.
Meanwhile you haven't answered my question. Would you say to that woman's face that she bears any responsibility for what some sickos did to her?

Actually, I already answered your question but you decided to ask it again. I would ask that woman why she would think it was a smart idea to get into a stranger's car. I also already stated that the person who committed the crime is the one responsible for the commission of that act. There are people out there who prey upon people's trust. I wouldn't leave my purse in a shopping cart unattended. I wouldn't let my child ride in the car of someone that I didn't know. I wouldn't go to a doctor who has had their medical license revoked because of negligence. I wouldn't have sex with a stranger without wearing protection. Ultimately, the only person responsible for protecting me is me.

starling

^^^^Again, those situations you're mentioning are not comparable to a rape situation.
I don't think there's any chance of us agreeing on this, and I think we've both put our arguments out there. I know if I continued I would just be repeating things I've already said. So maybe we should just leave it there and agree to disagree y/y?

keeponhurling

This woman thinks she was raped, which is bad.

The local police have arrested the man accused, detained him and are investigating. Man accused says that he is innocent. If found guilty he'll go to jail.

Similar response to what would have happened if it occured in Ireland.

No need to go saying bad things about the entire country of India.

gallag

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

is it not true that a woman has more chance of being raped in ireland than India? Per capita is pretty important, a woman wont meet all half billion indian males or 2 million irish males so the risk per thousand is a more important figure.

jaffacakesyum

Killer Wench wrote: »

I would be quite comfortable asking why she would think getting into the car of strangers in a strange land was a good idea. Even if the story had a happy ending, I would still ask that question. I would ask if it was a guy who had done it, if it was a family, or who ever.

If I was the woman I'd tell you to fúck off and mind your own business and stop trying to guilt trip me.

Norfolk Enchants

starling wrote: »

Can I just respectfully request that you don't call women "females." it's very disrespectful.

I was rehashing the terminology used on the departments website. Im baffled as to how you construe it to be disrespectful? If the warning was used to male tourists, I would have stated same.

B0jangles

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

I was rehashing the terminology used on the departments website. Im baffled as to how you construe it to be disrespectful? If the warning was used to male tourists, I would have stated same.

There is a world of difference between saying "female tourists" and "females". In the first "female" is a adjective which specifices that the tourists in question are female - no problem there.

Describing women as "females" sounds like you are talking about a different species.

jam_mac_jam

Female is now insulting? I don't think I have heard anything as stupid in months. If it was male would that be insulting? Or is just the word female insulting? I would have thought it was just a description.

B0jangles

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Female is now insulting? I don't think I have heard anything as stupid in months. If it was male would that be insulting? Or is just the word female insulting? I would have thought it was just a description.

Did you even read what I wrote?

DaveDaRave

Darwin's Law

starling

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Female is now insulting? I don't think I have heard anything as stupid in months. If it was male would that be insulting? Or is just the word female insulting? I would have thought it was just a description.

Yes, so you may have used the word without intending to cause offence, that's one thing. You were getting the benefit of he doubt. Nobody here said "If you call women 'females' you are automatically a complete arse" we just said "btw some people find that disrespectful"
But being told politely "excuse me some of us really don't like being called that" and then arguing that we're being stupid? That is a bit much.
Like i said, in my experience, calling all women "females" often indicates a few unpleasant attitudes to women; your dismissive tone would seem to confirm that.

Norfolk Enchants

B0jangles wrote: »

There is a world of difference between saying "female tourists" and "females". In the first "female" is a adjective which specifices that the tourists in question are female - no problem there.

Describing women as "females" sounds like you are talking about a different species.

Its a descriptive term used by the department on their website. If males were at significant risk of being sexually assaulted, im sure they would point that out, too.

Norfolk Enchants

starling wrote: »

Yes, so you may have used the word without intending to cause offence, that's one thing. You were getting the benefit of he doubt. Nobody here said "If you call women 'females' you are automatically a complete arse" we just said "btw some people find that disrespectful"
But being told politely "excuse me some of us really don't like being called that" and then arguing that we're being stupid? That is a bit much.
Like i said, in my experience, calling all women "females" often indicates a few unpleasant attitudes to women; your dismissive tone would seem to confirm that.

You have been trawling this thread looking to be offended. First it was racism, then it was xenophobia and now you are implying that I am sexist for rehashing an official travel warning from the department of foreign affairs website and using the term female.

B0jangles

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

You have been trawling this thread looking to be offended. First it was racism, then it was xenophobia and now you are implying that I am sexist for rehashing an official travel warning from the department of foreign affairs website and using the term female.

FYI you rewrote it; the line actually reads:

"Recent sexual attacks against female visitors in tourist areas and cities show that foreign women are at risk."

not "females".

starling

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

I was rehashing the terminology used on the departments website. Im baffled as to how you construe it to be disrespectful? If the warning was used to male tourists, I would have stated same.

I'm baffled as to how you think we have to justify our reaction, as opposed to just respecting our polite request? Like why do we have to argue you into showing respect, do we not have the right to be shown respect as a matter of course?

You may have used the term without any malign intentions. But now that you've been made aware that actually, some of us don't like that, arguing about it is not really a respectful way to proceed.

B0jangles

This might help illustrate the point as I see it; to me it sounds sort of like the difference between saying "black people" vs. "blacks"

(Not calling anyone a racist here, just trying to clarify a point!)

Norfolk Enchants

starling wrote: »

I'm baffled as to how you think we have to justify our reaction, as opposed to just respecting our polite request? Like why do we have to argue you into showing respect, do we not have the right to be shown respect as a matter of course?

You may have used the term without any malign intentions. But now that you've been made aware that actually, some of us don't like that, arguing about it is not really a respectful way to proceed.

I may butcher the English language, but I shall use it as I see fit. If you are offended by my use of the term female, then that is your problem, not mine.

starling

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

You have been trawling this thread looking to be offended.

No. You just keep on being offensive, that's all. I'm not making personal attacks on you. I'm responding to the offensive things you post.
"Looking for things to be offended by" is a very tired accusation. It's quite rude and dismissive too.

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

First it was racism, then it was xenophobia

I think if you re-read the thread you'll find that I both retracted and apologised for the "xenophobia" thing. Since which time I haven't mentioned it. Seems like you're holding a grudge.

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

and now you are implying that I am sexist for rehashing an official travel warning from the department of foreign affairs website and using the term female.

That's not really accurate though is it? I asked politely if you wouldn't mind not calling women "females." What's so awful about that?

old hippy

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

I may butcher the English language, but I shall use it as I see fit. If you are offended by my use of the term female, then that is your problem, not mine.

It's been clarified to you why it causes offence but you still insist on using it. Why is that, do you think?

Norfolk Enchants

old hippy wrote: »

It's been clarified to you why it causes offence but you still insist on using it. Why is that, do you think?

Because it is not a negative term, merely a descriptive one?

Norfolk Enchants

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

Because it is not a negative term, merely a descriptive one?

It appears as negative in the context in which you used it.

If you want to keep causing offence thats your prerogative, but it would be much nicer if you realised it could be construed as offensive and didn't do it, as opposed to defending your 'right' to cause offence.

Norfolk Enchants

Candie wrote: »

It appears as negative in the context in which you used it.

If you want to keep causing offence thats your prerogative, but it would be much nicer if you realised it could be construed as offensive and didn't do it, as opposed to defending your 'right' to cause offence.

Its not a offensive term. It was the terminology used by the department of foreign affairs on their website. Take it up with the minister in question.

Expect to get laughed at.

Nearly time to post that Stephen Fry quote.....

As FF pointed out, context is everything.

B0jangles

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

It was the terminology used by the department of foreign affairs on their website.

No it isn't.

starling

starling wrote: »

There usually is in my experience. "That female over there" is how you talk about animals, not people; I've never heard anyone talk about women as "females" without having some pretty unpleasant ideas about women.:(

Nothing here has changed my observations to date.

Norfolk Enchants

Cant link, but according to today's papers, the victim tried to take her own life. She was found unconscious in her hotel room.

gctest50

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-04/kolkata/39740087_1_police-remand-kolkata-police-irish-woman


http://tribune.com.pk/story/561034/raped-irishwoman-in-india-hospital-after-drug-overdose/

MayoArsehole

Now I know the politically correct morons of Ireland will shoot me down for this but do people remember about 5 years ago an Irish soldier responsible for training foreign aid workers was sacked from the post for telling women that unless they followed the training they could get themselves raped. This recent rape has a lot to do with the idiot class of this country who castigate anyone for mentioning the blunt reality of the world we live in to naïve fools who go abroad without knowing the dangers they may face. This soldier was trying to save lives and prevent rape yet for his blunt honesty we must now all contend with having unprepared citizens going abroad and suffering the consequences of that idiot politically correct army of do gooder know nothings of Ireland.

MayoArsehole

MayoArsehole wrote: »

Now I know the politically correct morons of Ireland will shoot me down for this but do people remember about 5 years ago an Irish soldier responsible for training foreign aid workers was sacked from the post for telling women that unless they followed the training they could get themselves raped. This recent rape has a lot to do with the idiot class of this country who castigate anyone for mentioning the blunt reality of the world we live in to naïve fools who go abroad without knowing the dangers they may face. This soldier was trying to save lives and prevent rape yet for his blunt honesty we must now all contend with having unprepared citizens going abroad and suffering the consequences of that idiot politically correct army of do gooder know nothings of Ireland.

How does one go about getting oneself raped?

Nobody minds the blunt realities being pointed out, it's blaming the victims of those realities for the actions of the perpetrators that most people have problems with.

BTW, I love your username.

MayoArsehole

Candie wrote: »

How does one go about getting oneself raped?

Nobody minds the blunt realities being pointed out, it's blaming the victims of those realities for the actions of the perpetrators that most people have problems with.

BTW, I love your username.

I dunno how "one gos about getting oneself raped" you said that not me.

MayoArsehole

Candie wrote: »

How does one go about getting oneself raped?

Nobody minds the blunt realities being pointed out, it's blaming the victims of those realities for the actions of the perpetrators that most people have problems with.

BTW, I love your username.

and yes people do mind the blunt realities being pointed out, that's why he got sacked!!!

Grayson

Candie wrote: »

How does one go about getting oneself raped?

Nobody minds the blunt realities being pointed out, it's blaming the victims of those realities for the actions of the perpetrators that most people have problems with.

BTW, I love your username.

There are some places in this world where a woman cannot go outside without a serious risk of sexual assault. It's not nice, but it's true. They should only go outside escorted, if they go out at all. That's not saying that the perpetrators are allowed do what they do or that it's right, just that it is the case. And if I walked around there at night displaying wealth I'd be mugged. And I'd be stupid to do so, especially if I'd been warned.

MayoArsehole

Grayson wrote: »

There are some places in this world where a woman cannot go outside without a serious risk of sexual assault. It's not nice, but it's true. They should only go outside escorted, if they go out at all. That's not saying that the perpetrators are allowed do what they do or that it's right, just that it is the case. And if I walked around there at night displaying wealth I'd be mugged. And I'd be stupid to do so, especially if I'd been warned.

Makes sense to me! that is the harsh blunt reality of the world we live in and people who raise that point like this soldier did got sacked from his post for it by the politicaly correct mafia of Ireland! they are the ones to blame for creating conditions condusive to ignorance about the reality of the world we live in.

old hippy

MayoArsehole wrote: »

Makes sense to me! that is the harsh blunt reality of the world we live in and people who raise that point like this soldier did got sacked from his post for it by the politicaly correct mafia of Ireland! they are the ones to blame for creating conditions condusive to ignorance about the reality of the world we live in.

Nice to see you've shifted the blame onto a non existent entity. Bit less controversial, hmmm?

MayoArsehole

old hippy wrote: »

Nice to see you've shifted the blame onto a non existent entity. Bit less controversial, hmmm?

That "non existant entity" got a man sacked from his post for trying to prevent these kinds of things happening! bloody hell, hmmmm away good lad.

MayoArsehole

MayoArsehole wrote: »

That "non existant entity" got a man sacked from his post for trying to prevent these kinds of things happening! bloody hell, hmmmm away good lad.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it! ignorance is no excuse, this is a sick part of the culture of the country she went to, she is not to blame for what happened her but this is the realistic possibility of traveling to India, what in the name of God was she going around by herself for!

old hippy

MayoArsehole wrote: »

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it! ignorance is no excuse, this is a sick part of the culture of the country she went to, she is not to blame for what happened her but this is the realistic possibility of traveling to India, what in the name of God was she going around by herself for!

Perhaps she should have worn a burka, hmmm?

It may hurt you to hear this but women are independent, they don't have to rely on men to protect them all the time and they can pretty much do what they want and go where they want.

Or at least, they should be able to.

old hippy

MayoArsehole wrote: »

That "non existant entity" got a man sacked from his post for trying to prevent these kinds of things happening! bloody hell, hmmmm away good lad.

Please provide a link to this story and name the names of the "politically correct mafia of Ireland".

MayoArsehole

old hippy wrote: »

Perhaps she should have worn a burka, hmmm?

It may hurt you to hear this but women are independent, they don't have to rely on men to protect them all the time and they can pretty much do what they want and go where they want.

Or at least, they should be able to.

Ah Christ you are a prime example of the unrealistic idiocy that is causing people to go abroad unprepared, utter moron.

MayoArsehole

old hippy wrote: »

Perhaps she should have worn a burka, hmmm?

It may hurt you to hear this but women are independent, they don't have to rely on men to protect them all the time and they can pretty much do what they want and go where they want.

Or at least, they should be able to.

The scumbags who raped her must love guys like you!

dr.bollocko

MayoArsehole banned.

Killer Wench

I think what has happened in this thread is a breakdown into two camps. One seems to favor idealism and the other favors realism.

In an ideal world, a woman should be able to walk butt naked down the street without having someone touching her, commenting on her breasts, or thinking that it is invitation to sleep with her. She should be able to trust that strangers, male or female, will not abduct her and sell her into sexual slavery. She should feel comfortable walking alone into a restaurant or traveling alone on a deserted highway. She should be free to walk the streets any time of night without feeling threatened. In fact, this should be the case for everyone. Not just women.

But in the real world, I remember the story of a sleepwalking woman who had walked out of her house in this state. A homeless man found her and then proceeded to rape her. She fought back after waking up but it was far too late. Unfortunately, the man was HIV Positive and the woman became infected. I came across a few stories involving sleepwalking women who were raped by men when they were out on the street.

I don't believe that every man would rape if given the opportunity. But, I do believe that every woman should take every opportunity to protect herself from the possibility. I can't even imagine what type of precautions sleepwalkers must take in order to protect themselves, but it is mind-blowing to see so many stories (in the US, UK, and Australia) that involve vulnerable women being raped by men who stumbled across them in this state.

old hippy

MayoArsehole wrote: »

The scumbags who raped her must love guys like you!

Not sure what to make of that & since you've been banned, I'm going to have to ask gallag (who's thanking your extraordinary posts) what you mean?

Gallag?

imtdub

To all those people down talking India - A special needs woman was raped in Dublin last week (scumbags/nasty people are here in Ireland too, not just India)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-believe-man-who-raped-special-needs-woman-had-attacked-before-1.1429507

pabloh999

imtdub wrote: »

To all those people down talking India - A special needs woman was raped in Dublin last week (scumbags/nasty people are here in Ireland too, not just India)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-believe-man-who-raped-special-needs-woman-had-attacked-before-1.1429507

Maybe you should check who the attacker was in this instance
Of course we have plenty of our own lunatics, but for this one we imported the sicko

imtdub

pabloh999 wrote: »

Maybe you should check who the attacker was in this instance
Of course we have plenty of our own lunatics, but for this one we imported the sicko

They didn't reveal the identity of the scumbag in that report...

pabloh999

imtdub wrote: »

They didn't reveal the identity of the scumbag in that report...

What does that have to do with anything
Its a big(ish) story and there has been numerous reports about the identity of the attacker.
This website is a handy resource

imtdub

pabloh999 wrote: »

Maybe you should check who the attacker was in this instance
Of course we have plenty of our own lunatics, but for this one we imported the sicko

imtdub wrote: »

They didn't reveal the identity of the scumbag in that report...

pabloh999 wrote: »

What does that have to do with anything

I'm sure you can read...

pabloh999

imtdub wrote: »

I'm sure you can read...

don't geddit??

Surely whoever that poster is can read the numerous other reports about the attack and the identity of the attacker