Wicklow 200

paddy147

rat_race wrote: »

If that's a response to me, then you're totally missing the point. Not getting into it, some people are logical, some are not. All I will say is that there are more rules of the road than "thou shalt not break a red light".

Nope,not in response to you.

Its in response to the countless amount of twits that we saw yesterday,stop at the various red lights,and then just cycle on through when there was a small break in the traffic driving arross the junctions from the other direction.

One lad in his fancy cycling gear nearly got creamed by a building supplies lorry.

We nearly were wittnesses to seeing a cyclist crushed by the lorry,and all because of him being an idiot and cycling through a red light.:eek::mad::mad:

paddy147

rat_race wrote: »

Yes. A car should not overtake a cyclist, or group of cyclists, unless it is safe to do so and without crossing a continuous white line. It's that simple.

And "safe" means a number of things, which a lot of motorists seem to forget once they've passed their test.

Just because a car can go faster than a bicycle, that doesn't give it the right to do so if it puts anyone at risk.

The same can also be said for alot of cyclists and how they use the road and treat the road and other road users too.


The rules of the road are there for everyone......and not just some.

I say this of all road users...just incase anyone thinks Im only singling out cyclists.


Everyone has to abide by the rules of the road and act with some common/safe sense too.

Leroy42

i am not really against cyclists breaking red lights, particularly taking a left hand turn or something, but I certainly believe that if they do then any result of that action lies with them. Same should be true for pedestrians crossing at a red signal or jaywalking. Not sure how the fault can lay with the car/truck whatever driver in thse circumstances.

Anyway, back to the OP, there will be 2000+ cyclists of all abilities out on Sunday spread across the roads of Wicklow. For many taking part this is akin to a marathon so bear that in mind particularly on the hills. They may well be in your way but many of them will be so wrapped in pain & effort that they probably don't even realise you are there. Just take it handy and you will get by them. It is hopefully going to be a nice day so if you do get stuck behind them just relax and enjoy the scenery for a minute or two!

Surveyor11

To be honest the issues raise here are done to death on other threads, plenty of cyclists break red lights but I witness cars doing this daily on my morning commute through Lucan, motor bikes using the cycle lanes etc. at the end of the day as a cyclist and a motorist I respect all road users, there's always going to be a clique who use the road as if its their own property. Chill out and respect each other, makes life easier. Right, how so I get back from utopia? oh and I pay more 'road' tax then my motor cyclist friends, so where do I fit in the road hierarchy?

paddy147

Surveyor11 wrote: »

To be honest the issues raise here are done to death on other threads, plenty of cyclists break red lights but I witness cars doing this daily on my morning commute through Lucan, motor bikes using the cycle lanes etc. at the end of the day as a cyclist and a motorist I respect all road users, there's always going to be a clique who use the road as if its their own property. Chill out and respect each other, makes life easier. Right, how so I he back from utopia? oh and I pay more 'road' tax then my motor cyclist friends, so where do I fit in the road hierarchy?

And motorcyclists dont also own bicycles,and have or drive cars/vans/trucks aswell as their motorbikes??

paddy147

Leroy42 wrote: »

i am not really against cyclists breaking red lights, particularly taking a left hand turn or something, but I certainly believe that if they do then any result of that action lies with them. Same should be true for pedestrians crossing at a red signal or jaywalking. Not sure how the fault can lay with the car/truck whatever driver in thse circumstances.

Anyway, back to the OP, there will be 2000+ cyclists of all abilities out on Sunday spread across the roads of Wicklow. For many taking part this is akin to a marathon so bear that in mind particularly on the hills. They may well be in your way but many of them will be so wrapped in pain & effort that they probably don't even realise you are there. Just take it handy and you will get by them. It is hopefully going to be a nice day so if you do get stuck behind them just relax and enjoy the scenery for a minute or two!

Can I ask why?

Isnt a red light there for a very important reason and meant to be obeyed and not for it to be purposely broken?


Not starting an arguement,just curious to know your reasons.:)


Oh and I do agree with you........regarding the fault/blame should be with the person who breaks the rules and breaks through/crosses a red light

paddy147

The major roadworks have also started today down at Rathnew and down at Jack Whites in Wicklow.


http://www.98fm.com/2013/category-news-sport/newlands-cross-flyover-and-n11-upgrade/



So allow for some possible delays there too,if heading down the N11.

P.C.

Welcome to some of the regulars from the cycling forum.

Please remember that this is the Motorcycle forum.
We not not agree with road users breaking the rules of the road.

If you want to argue that it is OK for cyclists to break the red lights, don't do it here.

Thank you.

Peanut2011

rat_race wrote: »

Yes. A car should not overtake a cyclist, or group of cyclists, unless it is safe to do so and without crossing a continuous white line.

Regardless of the group we speak of, if you had 60 motorbikes going in a convoy (two a breast) at 40kph in 100kph (wicklow roads) zones and they were holding everyone up, everyone would be on complaining!

The issue is not that they are cyclists, the issue is that in this case, because of the speed they do, they are the ones causing tailbacks. If that was a tractor or any other slow moving machinery they would be expected to pull in where possible and let the other traffic pass.

It is called consideration to other road users! Something cyclists constantly go on about but they themselves very rarely take in account.

How many outcries have we seen regarding sulky races and the fact they block off or hold back the traffic (apart from being dangerous & not that I condone that), but cyclist can do just that with few motorbikes and vans with few flashy yellow lights and that is ok?

Most of the other road users never even know when the event like this is happening and only find out when they get stuck in tailbacks on the day. I would say a lot better awareness is required and if public was better informed then you would have a lot less people getting pi$$ed off as they would plan their journeys around the event!

rat_race

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Regardless of the group we speak of, if you had 60 motorbikes going in a convoy (two a breast) at 40kph in 100kph (wicklow roads) zones and they were holding everyone up, everyone would be on complaining!

The issue is not that they are cyclists, the issue is that in this case, because of the speed they do, they are the ones causing tailbacks. If that was a tractor or any other slow moving machinery they would be expected to pull in where possible and let the other traffic pass.

It is called consideration to other road users! Something cyclists constantly go on about but they themselves very rarely take in account.

How many outcries have we seen regarding sulky races and the fact they block off or hold back the traffic (apart from being dangerous & not that I condone that), but cyclist can do just that with few motorbikes and vans with few flashy yellow lights and that is ok?

Most of the other road users never even know when the event like this is happening and only find out when they get stuck in tailbacks on the day. I would say a lot better awareness is required and if public was better informed then you would have a lot less people getting pi$$ed off as they would plan their journeys around the event!

Any cyclist I know, such as myself, will always go single file, or pull in slightly/slow down at an appropriate opportunity if we know there is a car coming upon us.

As for the "big events", 99% of the cyclists won't even know about the poor unfortunate car users being slightly delayed. If speed is that important to you, take the main roads -- the type that cyclists aren't allowed on, you know the ones -- or leave earlier with the knowledge that there are more types of users of the little country roads than just cars.

And comparing a cyclist to a sulky or a tractor is like comparing apples and oranges. Cyclists are far easier to overtake. What's difficult for most car users is waiting the 30 seconds to do it safely.

Peanut2011

rat_race wrote: »

Any cyclist I know, such as myself, will always go single file, or pull in slightly/slow down at an appropriate opportunity if we know there is a car coming upon us.

As for the "big events", 99% of the cyclists won't even know about the poor unfortunate car users being slightly delayed. If speed is that important to you, take the main roads -- the type that cyclists aren't allowed on, you know the ones -- or leave earlier with the knowledge that there are more types of users of the little country roads than just cars.

And comparing a cyclist to a sulky or a tractor is like comparing apples and oranges. Cyclists are far easier to overtake. What's difficult for most car users is waiting the 30 seconds to do it safely.

First off if you do cycle the way you say you do then you are the minority and I have absolutely no problem with the likes of you. Single file cyclist will delay you for 1-3min max and I have no issues with that.

Regarding the "bolded" part, then 99% are living in their own little world and if there was a car driver or a biker that said that there would be uproar as they are not driving with due care and attention. If they are on the public road they should be aware of their surroundings (No if's or but's!)!

Regarding the speed issue, as I said in my last part, if people knew that the "big event" is taking place, they would adjust their journey accordingly, the fact that it seems these things just pop up when ever the clubs "feel like it" is the problem!

Regarding the roads one takes, well some of us don't really have a choice what road we take as maybe there is only one road you can take, the very same road that seems to be so attractive to all cycling enthusiasts as well as clubs.

And regarding your last statement, overtaking one cyclist is not a problem, overtaking 5 in a single file is not a problem, however overtaking 10 two a breast is! Overtaking 40, two abreast which are followed by 4 van's doing the same speed and driving on the middle of the lane without ever trying to move in and give you the chance to overtake is a problem!

It's a problem especially when there are only 3 spots where it's safe to overtake as the rest of the road in covered in bends.

A bit more understanding towards other road users goes a long way. If I am in a car, i will move a side let the motorbike pass, I will give loads of room when overtaking a cyclist. When on the motorbike a lot of the time I get same courtesy offered to me, but there are a lot of times when it would seem they are going for you and doing all just so you would not get there before they did.

All I am saying is if cyclists want a bit more courtesy afforded to them vast majority of them need to give the same back to other road users. It works both ways!

rat_race

Peanut2011 wrote: »

First off if you do cycle the way you say you do then you are the minority and I have absolutely no problem with the likes of you. Single file cyclist will delay you for 1-3min max and I have no issues with that.

Regarding the "bolded" part, then 99% are living in their own little world and if there was a car driver or a biker that said that there would be uproar as they are not driving with due care and attention. If they are on the public road they should be aware of their surroundings (No if's or but's!)!

Regarding the speed issue, as I said in my last part, if people knew that the "big event" is taking place, they would adjust their journey accordingly, the fact that it seems these things just pop up when ever the clubs "feel like it" is the problem!

Regarding the roads one takes, well some of us don't really have a choice what road we take as maybe there is only one road you can take, the very same road that seems to be so attractive to all cycling enthusiasts as well as clubs.

And regarding your last statement, overtaking one cyclist is not a problem, overtaking 5 in a single file is not a problem, however overtaking 10 two a breast is! Overtaking 40, two abreast which are followed by 4 van's doing the same speed and driving on the middle of the lane without ever trying to move in and give you the chance to overtake is a problem!

It's a problem especially when there are only 3 spots where it's safe to overtake as the rest of the road in covered in bends.

A bit more understanding towards other road users goes a long way. If I am in a car, i will move a side let the motorbike pass, I will give loads of room when overtaking a cyclist. When on the motorbike a lot of the time I get same courtesy offered to me, but there are a lot of times when it would seem they are going for you and doing all just so you would not get there before they did.

All I am saying is if cyclists want a bit more courtesy afforded to them vast majority of them need to give the same back to other road users. It works both ways!

I agree. Btw, when I said 99% don't know they're causing a tailback, I meant when they're part of a big group. A lone wolf should know what's going on around him at all times.

Anyway, overall I agree that massive groups of slow moving cyclists all clumped together is a pain in the a$$ and not very reasonable to others. It's disrespectful.

There should be some common-sense etiquette to not form in groups too large, and if there are groups, to leave gaps in between to allow safe overtaking. Just like cars are supposed to leave gaps. Also, to not stay two-a-breast unnecessarily just because they can. That annoys me whether I'm on a bicycle or not.

But sometimes motorists have an attitude and sense of entitlement to the road, that any delay is unacceptable. I've delayed people while out on my own, on very small roads, for maybe 60 seconds or whatever, only to have them beep at me as they whizz past me, as if to say "what the hell, how dare you?". This sort of thing happens more often that you think.

I've had several people aggressivley overtake me on corners, only to almost cause a crash with oncoming cars...several of the worse cases they've tucked right back into their side of the road to avoid a collision, saving themselves and their precious car, almost hitting me. If I wasn't expecting such stupid behaviour, I'd have been hit.

Then you have the cars who put the foot down to overtake you, only to stop 25m down the road in traffic, tucked in nicely to the curb, blocking you. This happens every single day. People driving in cycling lanes, etc., etc., etc.

Then you have cars doing 100 km/h in 25 km/h zones, which have temporary gravel, throwing stones and dust up into your eyes/face, etc.

Or cars not giving you enough room (1m~ is the minimum gap they should leave) as they overtake you, forcing you to ride over crappy dangerous road surface because you've no room to dodge it.

Etc., etc.

In my view & experience, motorists cause much more hassle for cyclists than vica-versa.

paddy147

And now for some light hearted humor........

Zoo4m8

Some more light hearted humour, seen and heard last summer..
One of a group of Lycra clad cyclists thumps the roof of a car when the driver had the temerity to beep at him, so yer man passes them out,stops and roars out the window " would ye not get a frock to go with the tights ye big girl!":D

Max Headroom

IMO..its crazy thay anyone, and i mean anyone can just buy a bicycle and go out onto the road,,,no training, safety gear (compulsary) , no lisence or road tax or any knowledge of the rules of the road...but yet are made out to be some kind of saviours of the planet, have their own cycle lanes built, and cycle around like we owe them somehow....whereas most drive cars too, and just use the bike to annoy us .......;)

rat_race

Max Headroom wrote: »

IMO..its crazy thay anyone, and i mean anyone can just buy a bicycle and go out onto the road,,,no training, safety gear (compulsary) , no lisence or road tax or any knowledge of the rules of the road...but yet are made out to be some kind of saviours of the planet, have their own cycle lanes built, and cycle around like we owe them somehow....whereas most drive cars too, and just use the bike to annoy us .......;)

Are you actually for real or are you trolling? You realise that anybody can also go and walk on the roads, right? Should they not need a "lisense", training, safety gear?

Why should there be a "lisense" for a bicycle? It isn't a 2500kg mass of metal that can crash at anytime at 160km/h.

Also, there is no such thing as "road tax", only "motor tax". A bicycle is not a motorvehicle, and it does not have emissions. Neither is a person a motorvehicle.

I don't think cyclists regard themselves as saviours, but thanks if you do ... Once again though, if one would rather a nation of fatter unhealthier people clogging up the hospitals on one's tax money, or if one would prefer them congesting up one's roads in their cars, damaging the environment, roads, and delaying everyone, then one should get their head checked.

Also, you might want to keep in mind that bicycles were using roads long before cars were ever built and that it was cyclists, particulary in the UK and US, who lobbied for smoother better roads, long before cars were churning out of factories.

P.C.

OK. I am going to lock this thread.

It has turned into an us vs them fight.

Too many of these posts belong in the cycling forum.

If anyone feels that this thread needs to be unlocked, please send me a PM with your reasons, and I will look into it.

Thank you.