Dublin Passport Control Possible Discrimination

aldeirm2

I went to Madrid on holidays with the lads for the bank holiday weekend, and on my return to Ireland I waited in the EU Passports queue with my Irish passport (it was a long enough queue) and as usual i saw every single person in front of me just flash the passport and run through, when it was my turn I showed the officer my Irish passport, he then proceeded to grab it off me, inspect it very thoroughly and then ask me questions such as:

Where are you coming from?
Do you live here?
Do you have a job here?

Its important to note that I am slightly dark skinned, I have a Arabic name and I'm not originally from Ireland but have lived here for practically all my life.

I answered his questions and then he let me through, now I have no issues with passport control asking people questions including my self for the safety of Ireland, because Ireland's safety means my safety.

But to be honest I don't see how questions such as "do you have a job here?" or "do you live here?" will determine weather I am going to be allowed in to my home country or why out of bout 30 people that i saw go through i was the only one being asked any questions ( I am afraid to say I was the only none Caucasian in the queue.)

I think this was just some old school racism and a way to tell me "just because you have an Irish passport, don't mean you will be treated like one" and to be honest it worked, because it made me feel like a second class citizen.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever been questioned going in to Dublin on their Irish or EU passports?

devnull

I've seen this happen in Cork as well with people who held valid EU passports being asked to all such questions under the sun, despite the fact as an EU national it's really none of their business since you are allowed in the country no matter what.

Victor

Racism (on grounds of nationality) is the fundamental concept underlying passport control.

Everyone thinks they feel like a second class citizen at passport control. As least they don't feel you up like the customs and security types (I had four old pound coins in my back pocket going through the metal detector).

Often, questions like "What is the purpose of your travel?", "Where are you coming from?", "Do you live here?" and "Do you have a job here?" are not there as important questions - they are (a) stalling for time (b) analysing your behaviour / reactions (c) studying your confidence level. When I went to the UK recently, I was asked "Do you have any additional ID?" - once I flicked open my wallet, they were happy, without even checking if I actually had the additional ID - it was an observation and confidence checking exercise.

I would consider "Do you have a job here?" an inherently racist question in such a situation - as it is something that is irrelevant. The correct question would be "Where do you work?" or "Do you have a job?" (can be harsh questions during a recession).

murphaph

I've never had any such questions showing my Irish passport in Dublin. Sounds like you were singled out to me but I wasn't there.

devnull

I've never seen it happen to someone holding an Irish passport, but at Cork on the 2-3 occasions I've flew there, I've seen it be asked of people with other EU passports from the European mainland.

ted1

To be honest you were stopped as you don't look traditionally Irish, as such the person on the gate singled you out, the questions asked are to determine if your nervous etc and your answers rehearsed.

Very few people who look traditionally Irish would be stopped, you described yourself as having an Arabic complication and as such would not be indegnious to Ireland, and genreally few arabics would have Irish passports.

Unfortunatly, This is something you'll have to grin and bear. Hope you had a nice holiday.

coylemj

Consider yourselves lucky, time was back in the 1970s when the IRA were exploding bombs in GB and the Irish got serious aggro from the UK cops on border points, especially coming off a ferry. Any Paddy with a beard was guaranteed an aggressive 'welcome' by the cops in Heathrow and Holyhead which involved getting taken aside and being treated as a second-class citizen, even with the theory of free travel between the two countries.

Answering a few questions at passport control nowadays is a breeze in comparison, let's keep things in perspective.

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

Any Paddy with a beard was guaranteed an aggressive 'welcome' by the cops in Heathrow and Holyhead which involved getting taken aside and being treated as a second-class citizen, even with the theory of free travel between the two countries.

You do realise that most 'Paddies' aren't British citizens?

Con Logue

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that most 'Paddies' aren't British citizens?

Well I am a British citizen as well as Irish (born there of Irish parents) but certainly got the questions even though I didn't (and still don't) fit the profile. Bad times for the Irish then caused by a small few.

Judgement Day

Perhaps I was just lucky but I frequently traveled between the UK and Ireland during the height of the troubles and never was treated with anything but courtesy. I didn't have a beard though and you never can tell what might be hidden there.

There was an Old Man with a beard,
Who said, "It is just as I feared!
Two Owls and a Hen, four Larks and a Wren,
Have all built their nests in my beard.

Edward Lear

Con Logue

Judgement Day wrote: »

Perhaps I was just lucky but I frequently traveled between the UK and Ireland during the height of the troubles and never was treated with anything but courtesy. I didn't have a beard though and you never can tell what might be hidden there.

There was an Old Man with a beard,
Who said, "It is just as I feared!
Two Owls and a Hen, four Larks and a Wren,
Have all built their nests in my beard.

Edward Lear

The questions were courteous, as were the answers, so I never had any hassle. They still had to ask though.

beazee

aldeirm2 wrote: »

Where are you coming from?
Do you live here?
Do you have a job here?

Been there, done that, I've a Polish name and a Polish passport.

I don't see how questions such as "do you have a job here?" or "do you live here?" will determine weather I am going to be allowed in to my home country

This is to determine whether you're a social leech of non-Irish origin. Some do indeed have Irish passports. And it's fair as long as it's only three questions. In the end it's all about taxpayers' (yours) money.

But how they're going to tackle Irish social leeches living off in Canaries it beats me.

coylemj

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that most 'Paddies' aren't British citizens?

Actually the folk from Belfast getting off the ferry in Liverpool probably got similar treatment, despite them being UK citizens which I assume is what you mean when you refer to 'British' citizens. The cops in GB would have considered everyone from the island of Ireland as a 'Paddy'.

I saw the Dubliners being pulled over in Heathrow once, hence my statement that having a beard was a distinct handicap, I also knew a few people with beards and they said that the beard virtually guaranteed you a grilling on entering the UK back then.

corktina

they are just doing their job, some of them will be better at it than others.

murphaph

I think it's out of order asking Irish citizens whether or not they have a job. I accept such questions from foreign immigration services, but I wouldn't be at all happy being asked that by a guard in Dublin airport.

bk

I don't believe this is discrimination or racism, I think it is just social profiling.

Now I know some in the US get their PC knickers in a twist about social profiling and consider it racist, but in reality it is just common sense human intelligence police work that has been done by good police officers for hundreds of years.

Is it really that awful that they will quickly wave your typical looking burned red off a flight from Madrid "paddy" who also sounds Irish, but might take a few seconds longer with someone who looks a little different?

In reality it is just common sense policing, I honestly don't believe there is any racism meant. I'd expect to get an extra grilling being white when entering an Arab or African country as I'm obviously not local.

If this is what goes for racism these days, then things are much better then I thought they were!

BTW If you think this is grilling, you should try going through Isreals Tel Aviv Airport, now they grill you. They literally spend about 30 minutes talking to you as they go through everything in your luggage.

BBTW Coming off a flight from Poland with my Polish girlfriend I actually found it quiet nice that they not only left everyone though quickly, but actually said hello in Polish!

They aren't really bad guys, they are just trying to do their job.

Fred Swanson

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Carawaystick

bk wrote: »

I don't believe this is discrimination or racism,


BTW If you think this is grilling, you should try going through Isreals Tel Aviv Airport, now they grill you. They literally spend about 30 minutes talking to you as they go through everything in your luggage.

Are you a citizen of Israel? Do they get the same treatment as gentiles?

coylemj

Carawaystick wrote: »

Are you a citizen of Israel? Do they get the same treatment as gentiles?

A lot of Arab muslims and christians are citizens of Israel, the two categories you describe (gentile and citizen of Israel) are not incompatible.

Cookie_Monster

aldeirm2 wrote: »

Its important to note that I am slightly dark skinned, I have a Arabic name and I'm not originally from Ireland but have lived here for practically all my life.

Honestly, are you surprised you are stopped?
Unfortunitly arabic-looking and arabic-named people fit the profile they're supposed to question because of world events and attitudes. Rightly or wrongly you just have to deal with it.

ted1

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You wouldn't get that sort of questioning going to Poland or other EU state.

We are an island nation so the only real way to get here is by plane or boat from the uk which is a European country.

A lot of illegal immigrants come through the airport. Poland has plenty of road access and as such the airports of plains or other EU states don't get immigrants coming through the airport

meeeeh

Irish passports are poplar for forgeries because a lot of countries don't demand visas for irish passport holders. I'm Slovenian and it's similar with slovenian passports. You don't look like a stereotypical Irishman so there is a bigger chance you'll be asked some questions. I get a look in sometimes because my kids have irish passports and I don't. I don't think there is anything more to it.

purplepanda

Mossad often issue their own Irish passports.

Judgement Day

purplepanda wrote: »

Mossad often issue their own Irish passports.

Whereas most Arab states don't need to as Fianna Fail gave away so many to them for dubious investments in Ireland.

coolhandluke

When alan shatter is giving out irish citizenship to all and sundry , this is bound to happen......i believe many of them couldn't even satisfy the passport office of their documentation.

IvySlayer

Him asking about a job is weird, I wonder what would happen if you told him it was none of his business?

Fred Swanson

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Victor

coolhandluke wrote: »

When alan shatter is giving out irish citizenship to all and sundry , this is bound to happen......i believe many of them couldn't even satisfy the passport office of their documentation.

Trolling not welcome.

Moderator

dowlingm

I remember flying Cork-Manchester when things were starting to calm down in the North, it was my first time in the UK in a few years and found myself on the far side of the Greater Manchester Police desk before panicking and thinking I was going to be called back - but it turned out it was just unmanned. Bit of a culture shock from getting an chat from Strathclyde Police on trips to Glasgow (went to uni there for a short time).

By contrast when I flew to Canada for the first time I couldn't figure out the immigration queues - which were the "Canadian" lines and which the "foreigner"? Turns out there was no such distinction, with CBSA being mostly concerned with dutiable goods...

Then there's the Cuban system where everyone must go in to the booth on their own (i.e. spouses separately) and they go through your passport backwards and forwards. They don't stamp it though as they know it would kill their tourism trade if every tourist had to get a new passport before their next trip to the States to avoid potential grief!

OP: if you have concerns perhaps a polite letter to the head of the Dublin Airport GNIB detachment, cc'd to your local TD and the Minister for Justice would be in order. You might want to wait a few weeks though as the latter may have a change in personnel the way things are going.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Victor

dowlingm wrote: »

OP: if you have concerns perhaps a polite letter to the head of the Airport Police detachment, cc'd to your local TD and the Minister for Justice would be in order. You might want to wait a few weeks though as the latter may have a change in personnel the way things are going.

Nothing to do with the Airport Police, who are merely concerned with safety and security of the airport.

Immigration is part of the GNIB - a Garda function http://www.garda.ie/controller.aspx?page=31