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Leap card coming to Cork in 2014
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04-06-2013 10:37pm#1
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It currently operates in Dublin where they have Buses, Luas, Dart, Suburban and Intercity Trains. Can't see it being of much use to anyone other than users of the Cobh and Midleton railway lines. Actually, when I first saw the headline, I thought it was aimed at Cork people that commute up and down to Dublin.
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I'd say you disagree with a lot of things.
Why don't you explain your point rather than just making contrary statements.
Cos the simple point is that cork is not big enough to warrant that kind of cost to build it all and there wouldn't be the demand. Is that difficult to understand? Not sure how much simpler I can make it for you. You disagree and that is fine but you seem unable to grasp the opposite to your original assertion that cork is big enough.
Where were all the details in your post outlining why all that money should be spent. Oh yeah. There weren't any.0 -
Cos the simple point is that cork is not big enough to warrant that kind of cost to build it all and there wouldn't be the demand. Is that difficult to understand? Not sure how much simpler I can make it for you. You disagree and that is fine but you seem unable to grasp the opposite to your original assertion that cork is big enough.
Where were all the details in your post outlining why all that money should be spent. Oh yeah. There weren't any.
You've got the wrong end of the stick altogether. I want you to elaborate, not simplify.
You're contradicting yourself as well. First you said Cork wouldn't have enough people and now your saying it cost too much.
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Your contradicting yourself as well. First you said Cork wouldn't have enough people and now your saying it cost too much.
those things are linked of course. Due to there not being enough population those projects would be unable to pay for themselves over time and therefore cost too much to build!0 -
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KCAccidental wrote: »those things are linked of course. Due to there not being enough population those projects would be unable to pay for themselves over time and therefore cost too much to build!
There are several cities in Europe smaller than Cork with light rail systems. People said the Luas would be loss making and it's a roaring success. People said that Dublin Bikes would be a flop and plans to triple it's size have just been announced. People said a "Cork Bikes" was not feasible but that's happening. Years ago, the government were reluctant to invest in railway in Cork. When they finally invested in new trains on the Cork to Cobh line, numbers increased fourfold. I'm not sure about Cork to Midleton but I'd imagine it's not doing too bad. If you build the infrastructure, people will use it. Regarding the cost of these projects, the government seem to find the money for these types of projects in the greater Dublin area pretty easily. The Luas green line was recently extended into the foothills of the Dublin mountains at a cost of several hundred millions and some of the stops on the extension are literally in the middle of a field with a single digit of users a day using these stops (usually hikers). And the extension of the green line to Broom bridge on the north side of Dublin at a cost of another few hundred millions has just been announced. I'm not sure if anyone on here is familiar with Broom bridge but I've used it quite a lot myself over the last number of years and it must be the most under utilized, run down and vandalized train station in the country with sweet FA users. http://homepage.eircom.net/~tulips/foto/stat-broombridge-01.jpg
Most of the times I've used it, I've been the only person at the station (if you want to call it a station. It's more like a metal bus shelter). People seem to forget as well that Cork had trams 100 years ago! The reason they were done away with was to make way for roads as the use of the motor car was on the increase and the size and population of Cork are a substantially larger now than in 1900. But hey, if Cork people want to believe that their city is not deserving of a modern public transport system and would prefer to live in the dark ages, who am I to disagree. Maybe for the Cork bikes scheme we can get the city council to use these:
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You've got the wrong end of the stick altogether. I want you to elaborate, not simplify.
You're contradicting yourself as well. First you said Cork wouldn't have enough people and now your saying it cost too much.
Cork does not have the population to support this AND it will cost too much. I am not going to write a dissertation on it, before you ask. Further elaboration not required. Pretty simple concept to understand:
Population too small + Too expensive = Not a good idea
OR
Population too small + Too expensive = Vanity project
See, easy!;)0 -
There are several cities in Europe smaller than Cork with light rail systems. People said the Luas would be loss making and it's a roaring success. People said that Dublin Bikes would be a flop and plans to triple it's size have just been announced. People said a "Cork Bikes" was not feasible but that's happening. Years ago, the government were reluctant to invest in railway in Cork. When they finally invested in new trains on the Cork to Cobh line, numbers increased fourfold. I'm not sure about Cork to Midleton but I'd imagine it's not doing too bad. If you build the infrastructure, people will use it. Regarding the cost of these projects, the government seem to find the money for these types of projects in the greater Dublin area pretty easily. The Luas green line was recently extended into the foothills of the Dublin mountains at a cost of several hundred millions and some of the stops on the extension are literally in the middle of a field with a single digit of users a day using these stops (usually hikers). And the extension of the green line to Broom bridge on the north side of Dublin at a cost of another few hundred millions has just been announced. I'm not sure if anyone on here is familiar with Broom bridge but I've used it quite a lot myself over the last number of years and it must be the most under utilized, run down and vandalized train station in the country with sweet FA users. http://homepage.eircom.net/~tulips/foto/stat-broombridge-01.jpg
Most of the times I've used it, I've been the only person at the station (if you want to call it a station. It's more like a metal bus shelter). People seem to forget as well that Cork had trams 100 years ago! The reason they were done away with was to make way for roads as the use of the motor car was on the increase and the size and population of Cork are a substantially larger now than in 1900. But hey, if Cork people want to believe that their city is not deserving of a modern public transport system and would prefer to live in the dark ages, who am I to disagree. Maybe for the Cork bikes scheme we can get the city council to use these:
A viability study was done on a light rail system for Cork in 2010/2011 and it was found to be not viable for at least 20 years or more. A BRT was found to be viable from Ballincollig to Kent with future extension to Docklands and Mahon Point upon the development of Docklands and the construction of a new bridge down stream. But before all that we need realtime info (which we have now), smartcard fares (on the way in 2014), new city traffic plan to prioritize public transport (on the way in 2014) etc. The attitude that just because Dublin has it we should have it smacks of second city inferiority.0 -
namloc1980 wrote: »A viability study was done on a light rail system for Cork in 2010/2011 and it was found to be not viable for at least 20 years or more. A BRT was found to be viable from Ballincollig to Kent with future extension to Docklands and Mahon Point upon the development of Docklands and the construction of a new bridge down stream. But before all that we need realtime info (which we have now), smartcard fares (on the way in 2014), new city traffic plan to prioritize public transport (on the way in 2014) etc. The attitude that just because Dublin has it we should have it smacks of second city inferiority.
Seeing as I'm not originally from Cork and don't live there anymore, how can I be suffering from this second city syndrome plus that's a mildly derogatory phrase usually used by Dubs about Cork people! I don't care if you all commute around the city on space hoppers.
And who commissioned this viability study? A government reluctant to invest in transport infrastructure outside it's capital city? Even without the redeveloped docklands, a light rail line from Rochestown to Ballincollig taking in MP, Blackrock, City Center, UCC, Victoria Cross, CUH, CIT and all the suburbs in between couldn't possibly fail, that is unless people boycotted it for some bizarre reason but I know from living in Cork for many years that there are plenty of backwards people whose behavior and mentality just leaves you scratching your head. But some great people there as well. Just harder to find!0 -
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I've never really understood the attraction of trams/light rail anyway. Instead of trams, why not use buses which don't require the installation of rails, traffic control lights; and are far more flexible (line can't be blocked by one mechanical failure, no engineering costs to adding new routes, buses can be moved to other routes, trams can't). Instead of light rail, why not a two-lane bus route? Is it a 'trams are stylish and European' thing? Are they significantly cheaper to run?
That said, it does seem a bit odd that the greater Dublin area is big enough to warrant DART, Luas and possibly DART underground & Metro services in addition to the bus & rail links; while the greater Cork area has just the bus & rail. Other than the obvious "Dublin is bigger, so it gets several transport options, Cork is smaller so it gets none", does anyone have access to any hard figures for this? How large does the population need to be to support additional transport services? How much daily traffic does there need to be on a given line?
After all, at most Cork would ever get just one line: Bishopstown (with possible future expansion to Ballincollig) to Mahon, via the city centre; and there's a readily available route for the Eastern half of that route which would surely alleviate the costs.
You know the argument they commonly use in Dublin to justify the costs of many large scale infrastructure projects (not just transport but also hospitals, event centers, leisure complexes, etc.) is that "it's for the people of Ireland" or "people from all over the country will come to use it". Brass necks. 0 -
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Seeing as I'm not originally from Cork and don't live there anymore, how can I be suffering from this second city syndrome plus that's a mildly derogatory phrase usually used by Dubs about Cork people! I don't care if you all commute around the city on space hoppers. And who commissioned this viability study? A government reluctant to invest in transport infrastructure outside it's capital city? Even without the redeveloped docklands, a light rail line from Rochestown to Ballincollig taking in MP, Blackrock, City Center, UCC, Victoria Cross, CUH, CIT and all the suburbs in between couldn't possibly fail, that is unless people boycotted it for some bizarre reason but I know from living in Cork for many years that there are plenty of backwards people whose behavior and mentality just leaves you scratching your head. But some great people there as well. Just harder to find!
The study was commissioned by the City Council and carried out by MVA consultants. I presume you have conducted your own viability study and perhaps you might be able to enlighten us as to where they went wrong in their assessment: LINK0
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