Get outta my lane.

fa4ll0ut

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Don't worry the EU will have GPS in all new cars soon.

The cheapest phone you can buy retail is €10-20, add a fiver for GPS and it's nothing on the price of a new car to fit a spy in the cab.

I suppose I never thought about that but I just am unsure of how hard the police will crack down on this issue.

Sparks

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

They have no right to ignore me

/falls over laughing

need to be encouraged out of the way

/rolls around laughing even harder

This is why I love having a car with a bit of power

Seriously Rik, stop it, you're killing me here!

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

/falls over laughing


/rolls around laughing even harder


Seriously Rik, stop it, you're killing me here!

Great post :rolleyes:

I fail to see whats funny about the post especially the bit about my car.

and who is Rik?

milltown

So AH is now the venue for topics that have been done to death in the Motors forum?
I'm looking forward to the AH foglights thread already.

Right lane/fast lane/overtaking lane is just semantics and shouldn't make any difference. It shouldn't matter what speed you're doing or what lane anybody else is in, it should be drilled into everyone, if you can move left, do. The problem with making reference to slower moving traffic in another lane is the ambiguity around how near or far that traffic might be. If I'm doing 120km/h in the left lane I know that the truck a kilometer ahead is going slower than me but I don't need to move over to overtake until he's 100m away. If people were in the habit of staying left we wouldn't need to be arguing about the morality or legality.

My WTF anecdote:
Coming back from Belfast on the M1 one afternoon, clear sunny day, not another car behind me as far as I could see and only one car in the distance. In the right hand lane of course. Literally miles of empty road in both directions. As I approached, the driver seemed to be leaning over playing with the stereo or something. When he sat up straight again I gave a flash of the lights and, to be fair to him but surprisingly to me, he moved to the other lane straight away. I gave him a flash of the hazards to say thanks and looked in my rear view mirror to see him indicate then pull back into the outside lane again. We were still the only two cars visible in either direction.

K.Flyer

Gotham wrote: »

So can someone just clear this up for me.

Lets say:
Youre on the M50 heading northbound around about J14.
There is traffic in the middle lane, so you pop into the right lane (whatever you are happy to call it).
The middle lane is occupied for the next 15km and you are still progressing faster then it (you are still overtaking).


What is an acceptable speed to travel? Surely the speed limit of 100kmph applies here?

Correct, the speed limit of 100km/h still applies and you are overtaking.

The main debate here is about people who, after overtaking a line of cars, do not move out of the overtaking lanes at the earliest opportunity.
Its also about the understanding of what the lanes are actually meant to be used for and peoples awareness of other road users who might want to or Need to pass a car in the overtaking lane irrespective of what speed they are travelling at.

Genghiz Cohen

milltown wrote: »

My WTF anecdote:
Coming back from Belfast on the M1 one afternoon, clear sunny day, not another car behind me as far as I could see and only one car in the distance. In the right hand lane of course. Literally miles of empty road in both directions. As I approached, the driver seemed to be leaning over playing with the stereo or something. When he sat up straight again I gave a flash of the lights and, to be fair to him but surprisingly to me, he moved to the other lane straight away. I gave him a flash of the hazards to say thanks and looked in my rear view mirror to see him indicate then pull back into the outside lane again. We were still the only two cars visible in either direction.

Wait, were you also in the rightmost lane too?

smoking_kills

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Don't worry the EU will have GPS in all new cars soon.

The cheapest phone you can buy retail is €10-20, add a fiver for GPS and it's nothing on the price of a new car to fit a spy in the cab.

But won't that interfere with the RFID chip they put in my head

milltown

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Wait, were you also in the rightmost lane too?

Of course. I was the fastest car on the road!

While I was overtaking him, yes.

degsie

milltown wrote: »

Coming back from Belfast on the M1 one afternoon, clear sunny day, not another car behind me as far as I could see and only one car in the distance. In the right hand lane of course. Literally miles of empty road in both directions. As I approached, the driver seemed to be leaning over playing with the stereo or something. When he sat up straight again I gave a flash of the lights and, to be fair to him but surprisingly to me, he moved to the other lane straight away. I gave him a flash of the hazards to say thanks and looked in my rear view mirror to see him indicate then pull back into the outside lane again. We were still the only two cars visible in either direction.

So, if I get this right. You were driving on the leftmost lane and the other driver was in the rightmost lane. Your speed was such that you caught up with the other driver. Rather than continuing on in the leftmost lane you maneuvered into the rightmost lane behind the other driver. You then proceeded to flash the other driver. Is that how it was?

MrPudding

degsie wrote: »

So, if I get this right. You were driving on the leftmost lane and the other driver was in the rightmost lane. Your speed was such that you caught up with the other driver. Rather than continuing on in the leftmost lane you maneuvered into the rightmost lane behind the other driver. You then proceeded to flash the other driver. Is that how it was?

That is what you are supposed to do, maybe not the flashing bit. Passing on the left is illegal, therefore, even though you are exercising proper and correct lane discipline you need to cross one or two empty lanes to pass the w@nker that doesn't know what he is doing.

I see this all the time in the UK, really quite common.

MrP

degsie

degsie wrote: »

So, if I get this right. You were driving on the leftmost lane and the other driver was in the rightmost lane. Your speed was such that you caught up with the other driver. Rather than continuing on in the leftmost lane you maneuvered into the rightmost lane behind the other driver. You then proceeded to flash the other driver. Is that how it was?

This is what I would always do initially, its only if the person down right refuses to move (and there are no guards in sight) I would undertake.

degsie

MrPudding wrote: »

That is what you are supposed to do, maybe not the flashing bit. Passing on the left is illegal, therefore, even though you are exercising proper and correct lane discipline you need to cross one or two empty lanes to pass the w@nker that doesn't know what he is doing.

I see this all the time in the UK, really quite common.

MrP

Maybe it's just me but I'd consider that to be aggressive driving! You are going out of your way to make a point by crossing 1 or 2 lanes and then encouraging the driver in the rightmost lane to move across 1 or 2 lanes so you can overtake and then move back to the leftmost lane by crossing 1 or 2 lanes. All seems a bit pointless to me.

SV

Gotham wrote: »

So can someone just clear this up for me.

Lets say:
Youre on the M50 heading northbound around about J14.
There is traffic in the middle lane, so you pop into the right lane (whatever you are happy to call it).
The middle lane is occupied for the next 15km and you are still progressing faster then it (you are still overtaking).

What is an acceptable speed to travel? Surely the speed limit of 100kmph applies here?

If you are constantly overtaking then yeah, the speed limit applies.

The speed limit always applies anyway, It's just that when people sit in the overtaking lane when not overtaking trying to enforce it themselves, that's when they can go fúck themselves.

degsie

degsie wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I'd consider that to be aggressive driving! You are going out of your way to make a point by crossing 1 or 2 lanes and then encouraging the driver in the rightmost lane to move across 1 or 2 lanes so you can overtake and then move back to the leftmost lane by crossing 1 or 2 lanes. All seems a bit pointless to me.

The point is undertaking on a motorway at speed is both dangerous and illegal. The correct way to overtake is to move to the right lane however if this is being blocked then this person obviously needs to be reminded they shouldn't be there.

If they persist in making a nuisance and a danger of themselves to me and other road users then there is no option left but to undertake thus they are causing even more danger by their poor driving.

Gotham

SV wrote: »

If you are constantly overtaking then yeah, the speed limit applies.

The speed limit always applies anyway, It's just that when people sit in the overtaking lane when not overtaking trying to enforce it themselves, that's when they can go fúck themselves.

So what happens when the traffic in the middle start equalising your speed, you're stuck in the right lane unable to get back. There's no cars ahead of you but there are impatient people behind. You're still going at 100kmph.

awec

Gotham wrote: »

So what happens when the traffic in the middle start equalising your speed, you're stuck in the right lane unable to get back. There's no cars ahead of you but there are impatient people behind. You're still going at 100kmph.

It's still up to you to get out of the overtaking lane.

Such a scenario is completely unrealistic anyway. You should never get "stuck" in the overtaking lane.

Gotham

awec wrote: »

Such a scenario is completely unrealistic anyway.

I disagree, it's happened me a few times, although I didn't have the misfortune of having impatient people behind me.

michael.dublin

And here, I was under the impression, that rules of the road is saying, that you have to stick to the speed limited  Ok I guess I was wrong, it is a little like traffic lights, only a recommendation.
And yes I know, every other driver on the road is a asshole, and it is perfectly ok to go 150 on the motorway, or any other road.
The fact is, that speed limited is there and they have to be followed, and if you don’t like that, well then get in contact with the TD’s and local politician, and get them to change the rules of the road and speed limited, but until that happened. The speed limited is what it is
Drive safely out there.

Gotham

Gotham wrote: »

So what happens when the traffic in the middle start equalising your speed, you're stuck in the right lane unable to get back. There's no cars ahead of you but there are impatient people behind. You're still going at 100kmph.

Speed up, find a gap and pull back into the driving lane out of the way.

milltown

degsie wrote: »

So, if I get this right. You were driving on the leftmost lane and the other driver was in the rightmost lane. Your speed was such that you caught up with the other driver. Rather than continuing on in the leftmost lane you maneuvered into the rightmost lane behind the other driver. You then proceeded to flash the other driver. Is that how it was?

Yes.

Gotham

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

Speed up, find a gap and pull back into the driving lane out of the way.

But I'm supposed to obey the speed limit, which I'm already at.

Duck's hoop

Someone posted about the M50 yesterday, being one third empty. I never really noticed until today but yes, they wasted millions building that third lane.

Seems people think lanes are categorised by speed. 80/100/120k. I'm doing 100 so middle lane for me.

It's going to drive me f~cking mental now.

Gotham

Gotham wrote: »

But I'm supposed to obey the speed limit, which I'm already at.

No you're 20km/h under it if you are doing 100km/h on a motorway.

In the event I was travelling at the 120km/h limit I would still have no problem speeding up, I'm not too bothered about the speed limits tbh. Motorways are designed for speeds far in excess of our conservative 120km/h limit.

Blocking people in the above (very unlikely) situation is worse than exceeding the speed limit and far more dangerous.

awec

Gotham wrote: »

I disagree, it's happened me a few times, although I didn't have the misfortune of having impatient people behind me.

When someone is being overtaken they are not supposed to speed up, that is against the rules of the road.

If they were going close to the speed limit and you couldn't overtake them with little delay without speeding then you shouldn't have pulled in to the overtaking lane.

Getting stuck in the overtaking lane would be an indication of poor decision making on behalf of a driver.

Either way, there is absolutely no excuse for being in the wrong lane, and hogging the overtaking lane. None.

awec

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

No you're 20km/h under it if you are doing 100km/h on a motorway.

In the event I was travelling at the 120km/h limit I would still have no problem speeding up, I'm not too bothered about the speed limits tbh.

Not on the M50, where the limit is 100 for most of it.

Gotham

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

No you're 20km/h under it if you are doing 100km/h on a motorway.

I said earlier the M50, which is a motorway with a limit of 100km/h.

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

I'm not too bothered about the speed limits tbh.

You cant decide which rules to break. (edit: You shouldnt HAVE TO decide).

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

Motorways are designed for speeds far in excess of our conservative 120km/h limit.

Of course, I dont expect emergency services to limit themselves to 120.

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

Blocking people in the above (very unlikely) situation is worse than exceeding the speed limit and far more dangerous.

Worse how? Morally or in the name of safety? Because it's not the latter.

awec

You are not going to get done on the M50 for accelerating to 105/110 Kmph to get yourself out of the overtaking lane.

Though given the speed the M50 actually moves at a car doing 100kmph has absolutely no place in the overtaking lane as they are going to be overtaking nobody.

Gotham

awec wrote: »

When someone is being overtaken they are not supposed to speed up, that is against the rules of the road.

If they were going close to the speed limit and you couldn't overtake them with little delay without speeding then you shouldn't have pulled in to the overtaking lane.

Getting stuck in the overtaking lane would be an indication of poor decision making on behalf of a driver.

Either way, there is absolutely no excuse for being in the wrong lane, and hogging the overtaking lane. None.

OK maybe some context might help.
I come off a junction, left two lanes are in a small jam so I make my way to the right lane. After getting in the right lane and passing the slow traffic near the junction, the traffic in the middle speeds up to the speed limit.
I don't often get into this situation of course, but only because I know it can happen; I avoid it.

Sparks

awec wrote: »

It's still up to you to get out of the overtaking lane.

Can I fit boudica spikes to my tyres to assist with this?

Such a scenario is completely unrealistic anyway.

Odd that, since it happens to me at least two or three times a week on the M50. You might be assuming that there aren't any prats driving in lane 2, which would be incorrect...

Gotham

Gotham wrote: »

Of course, I dont expect emergency services to limit themselves to 120.


Worse how? Morally or in the name of safety? Because it's not the latter.

Not just emergency services, there are countries with worse motorways than ours with much higher speed limits. Traffic should allowed to travel at higher speed than 120Km/h (or at least there should be a grading system depending on the car similar to how trucks, buses etc have different limits) my car is only ticking over at 120km/h and can safely travel at speeds well in excess of it.

Blocking the road as you say, with a car on your inside, and cars behind you is much more dangerous than exceeding the speed limit by 20 or 30km/h imo.

Sparks

awec wrote: »

You are not going to get done on the M50 for accelerating to 105/110 Kmph to get yourself out of the overtaking lane.

Completely correct... assuming you don't get caught.

Gotham

awec wrote: »

Though given the speed the M50 actually moves at a car doing 100kmph has absolutely no place in the overtaking lane as they are going to be overtaking nobody.

That's part of the problem though. I still see it as people deciding which rule they feel like breaking and which rule they feel like imposing.

Sparks

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

my car is only ticking over at 120km/h

More fool you for buying it so!

Gotham

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

my car is only ticking over at 120km/h and can safely travel at speeds well in excess of it.

I totally agree, and I'd welcome faster limits.

But those arent the rules. If you want to break them that's fine by me, but I'm conscious of hypocrisy in these threads.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

More fool you for buying it so!

Why?

Its far safer for overtaking on normal roads, can overtake in gaps other cars couldn't so less time stuck behind people, far better brakes so can stop quicker so Im safer in it, can corner better and faster than other normal cars, it also (believe it or not) doesn't have a speed limiter so it can exceed 120km/h with ease, there are many more advantages but I would be writing for a long time to list them, though one of them being its great fun to drive unlike an awful lot of boring cars on the road.

VinLieger

I choose to drive in the middle lane on the m50 at 100k simply for safety due to retards constantly trying and merge onto the road at 60k which makes driving in the left hand lane at the speed limit ectremely hazardous. Id have no problem driving in the left hand lane if this never happened

awec

Gotham wrote: »

That's part of the problem though. I still see it as people deciding which rule they feel like breaking and which rule they feel like imposing.

What lane you are in has nothing to do with how many km/h you are doing though, or how many km/h anyone else is doing.

It's all about how you are moving relative to everyone else.

Unless you are going faster than the cars in front of you you should not be in the overtaking lane.

Drive in the left, overtake on the right. When you are done overtaking (i.e. there are no cars immediately in front of you that you are going faster than) then get out of the overtaking lane.

Gotham

awec wrote: »

What lane you are in has nothing to do with how many km/h you are doing though, or how many km/h anyone else is doing.

It's all about how you are moving relative to everyone else.

Relativity is very important yes, but this exercise is about being relative while also obeying the rules.

awec wrote: »

Drive in the left, overtake on the right. When you are done overtaking (i.e. there are no cars immediately in front of you that you are going faster than) then get out of the overtaking lane.

Maybe I'm still not explaining it correctly.
I go into the right lane, max out at 100km/h.
Remember, there is a queue of cars to the left, there is no room to move in.
Before I get a chance to merge back into the middle lane, the cars in the middle have already sped up to 100km/h, sometimes even more - because as you said: nobody drives at the speed limit on the m50.

SeanW

Not an excuse for driving slower in the right lane than traffic in more leftward lanes. Either you're going faster than traffic to your left, or you are not. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Owenw

VinLieger wrote: »

I choose to drive in the middle lane on the m50 at 100k simply for safety due to retards constantly trying and merge onto the road at 60k which makes driving in the left hand lane at the speed limit ectremely hazardous. Id have no problem driving in the left hand lane if this never happened

Or just watch for slow merging traffic at junctions and change lane or adjust speed accordingly?

Not getting at you Vin, but it amazes me how difficult some drivers find changing lanes and back again in quick succession. The Dublin M50 is rarely bumper to bumper compared to orbital motorways like the London M25 or Peripherique around Paris.

Sparks

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

Why?

Worse milage, higher insurance premiums, higher cost of ownership, higher risk of theft, more scrutiny from the Gardai... and that's just the first things that come to mind.

Its far safer for overtaking on normal roads

Safety's important? Don't overtake, that's safer still.

can overtake in gaps other cars couldn't so less time stuck behind people

So safety's not important? Then buy a motorbike!

far better brakes so can stop quicker so Im safer in it

Wait, we're back to safety being important? Come on Rik Mr.B'stard, that's not very consistent.

can corner better and faster than other normal cars

Need that on the M50 a lot? If so, buy a motorbike! (After all, you can never have enough available organs for transplant :P )

it also (believe it or not) doesn't have a speed limiter so it can exceed 120km/h with ease

...just not legally. Anywhere. At any time. For any reason.

boring cars on the road.

I like boring. Boring is great when you're talking about cars on the road. Exciting tends to involve loud noises and rapidly changing and rotating views and phone calls that start with "Honey, the good news is, we know the airbags work!"

So yeah, I'll skip exciting on the road, thanks. I mean, exciting is what sex is for, not cars.

Sparks

SeanW wrote: »

Not an excuse for driving slower in the right lane than traffic in more leftward lanes. Either you're going faster than traffic to your left, or you are not. No ifs ands or buts about it.

There's no ifs ands or buts, however there are scenarios -- like the one explicitly pointed out -- where what you just said is flat out wrong.

Capt'n Midnight

smoking_kills wrote: »

But won't that interfere with the RFID chip they put in my head

No because the device would be like an smartphone with no battery or screen, but still having camera , accelerometer and 3G connection. So it could email the video of the offending act to you. Bonus points if it then films you answering that email on your phone while driving.

Capt'n Midnight

degsie wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I'd consider that to be aggressive driving! You are going out of your way to make a point by crossing 1 or 2 lanes and then encouraging the driver in the rightmost lane to move across 1 or 2 lanes so you can overtake and then move back to the leftmost lane by crossing 1 or 2 lanes. All seems a bit pointless to me.

Or you could risk getting points by undertaking which is illegal .

usually when I'm doing this to someone driving at 10Km/h under the speed limit I do it a lane at a time, including cancelling the indicator in between.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Worse milage, higher insurance premiums, higher cost of ownership, higher risk of theft, more scrutiny from the Gardai... and that's just the first things that come to mind.

Yes to burning more petrol (well worth it for being able to blast passed people trying to act as rolling road blocks). I do find it hard to believe but no there is very little difference in insurance if any, owner ship costs are pretty average compared to any car. You can't live your life in fear of thiefs and I've had absolutely no attention from gardai bar being waved through 2 or 3 checkpoints in a year and a half of ownership.

Sparks wrote: »

Safety's important? Don't overtake, that's safer still.

Safety is important, but being able to make progress, overtake etc while sacrificing almost no safety is even better.

Sparks wrote: »

So safety's not important? Then buy a motorbike!

Bikes are of no interest to me.

Sparks wrote: »

Wait, we're back to safety being important? Come on Rik Mr.B'stard, that's not very consistent.

Honestly who the hell is Rik?

Sparks wrote: »

Need that on the M50 a lot? If so, buy a motorbike! (After all, you can never have enough available organs for transplant :P )

I drive on the M50 about once a year if even, I don't live anywhere near dublin. My driving consists of a mix of N roads, back roads motorways and some city driving.

Sparks wrote: »

...just not legally. Anywhere. At any time. For any reason.

Not bothered about it being legal or not.

Sparks wrote: »

I like boring. Boring is great when you're talking about cars on the road. Exciting tends to involve loud noises and rapidly changing and rotating views and phone calls that start with "Honey, the good news is, we know the airbags work!"

So yeah, I'll skip exciting on the road, thanks. I mean, exciting is what sex is for, not cars.

For a lot of people cars are exciting and are a real passion and exciting is most definitely for cars. You will also find its the boring cars that tend to have their airbags deployed much more often than the exciting ones as for one they are not as capable on the road and two their drivers (often due to a lack of interest) are not as competent on the road.

It that whole post you made one point that wasn't absolute nonsense, the one about fuel consumption.

Topper Harley

I understand why people have a problem with others speeding but I don't understand how they can defend disobeying the rules of the road just because others are possibly breaking the speed limit.

For people who have a problem with a car going faster than them (possibly speeding) in lane 2/3 why not just briefly speed up a little to complete your overtaking manoeuvre (assuming that's what you're doing) and move back out of the lane.

If briefly speeding up is something that a driver is genuinely not comfortable with, rather than just being stubborn, so be it, carry on as you were until is safe to move back to lane 1.

Sparks wrote: »

Worse milage, higher insurance premiums, higher cost of ownership, higher risk of theft, more scrutiny from the Gardai... and that's just the first things that come to mind.

Need that on the M50 a lot? If so, buy a motorbike! (After all, you can never have enough available organs for transplant :P )

I like boring. Boring is great when you're talking about cars on the road. Exciting tends to involve loud noises and rapidly changing and rotating views and phone calls that start with "Honey, the good news is, we know the airbags work!"

So yeah, I'll skip exciting on the road, thanks. I mean, exciting is what sex is for, not cars.

I'm getting the impression you have a chip on your shoulder regarding certain cars...and possibly motorbikes.

Sparks

Topper Harley wrote: »

I'm getting the impression you have a chip on your shoulder regarding certain cars

I certainly have a chip on my shoulder for that f*cker who keeps driving up my tailpipe while we're doing the limit in lane 2 and flashing his lights while on his mobile and lane 3 is open...

...and possibly motorbikes.

Just wouldn't get on one if you paid me to

It's more the Alan B'stard posters above who're cracking me up. I mean lads, if you're so utterly unconcerned with obeying the law regarding speed limits but expect everyone else to obey the law regarding keeping left; well, you and the horse you rode in on, sunshine...

Cungi

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Or you could risk getting points by undertaking which is illegal .

usually when I'm doing this to someone driving at 10Km/h under the speed limit I do it a lane at a time, including cancelling the indicator in between.

Undertaking Overtaking on the left is not illegal when the traffic in the lefthand lane is moving faster

From RSA website:

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.

You have signalled that you intend to turn left.

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

Sparks

Cungi wrote: »

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

Yeah, but is that slowly relative to jet aircraft?

RustyNut

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We have the rules and laws. Education and enforcement are needed. And they are a lot cheaper than building a third lane.

This is the only answer. I think the new learner system will go a long way to fix the education issue, enforcement is the biggest issue that needs to be dealt with. So long as you are not speeding anything else seems to be ok.
If every time someone passed a camera on the 50 with an empty lane to the left there was a €50 reminder to keep left in the post people would soon cop on to the rules of the road.
Same for roundabouts, junction boxes, amber lights etc. Driving would be so much more pleasant, we would all get where we are going quicker and once everyone was playing by the same rules the speed limits on motorways could be increased, or dare I say done away with altogether like our German overlords.